Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I rather wish people wouldn't say, "4 ranged." It feels disingenuous. Its more accurate to say we have 2 ranged, and 2 mage DPS.

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people say that because that's how party composition works. many fights are designed so that you have 1 tank in front of the boss, the OT on one flank, a melee on the other flank and another melee in the rear. then you have 2 healers + 2 ranged spread out behind. one of the ranged is support and another is a caster. this is the most balanced you can have a full party. you can spread the group out so that no player targeted AOEs clip each other, you have TP/MP regen, and you have all available LBs for all situations.

or you end up with people like this guy who is all wrong.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

At the moment, we have:

3 tanks
3 melees
2 supporters
2 mages
3 healers

Time to throw in 1 additional Supporter (Redmage?) and 1 additional Mage (Geomancer, Dancer, I dont know) ; )

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Light Parties do not have 5 spots taking one from each, Full Parties do not have 10 spots taking two from each.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Light Parties do not have 5 spots taking one from each, Full Parties do not have 10 spots taking two from each.

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Now there's a good idea!

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Originally Posted by Toranja

The title for this thread confuses me.

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First time making a thread D: Sorry if its confusing, I tried to sum it up below the title though.

The only thing that I do not want to see is another Knight type tank and another long ranged magic caster class.

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Originally Posted by Katana190

First time making a thread D: Sorry if its confusing, I tried to sum it up below the title though.

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I think the Vice Versa is what's confusing... It doesn't make any sense since you used "And/Or" which would make the title by adding "vice versa" technically :
Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0?
And
Do YOU think we'll get a new Healer and/or Tank in 4.0?

I'd like to see them dump the trinity idea altogether but that would be a balance nightmare. I remember reading in a LL or something that they weren't going to do a ninja-style introduction again, where they just plopped the class in the middle of the patch cycle like that.

I also saw where they thought 3 new classes were too much to add in Heavensward and they didn't want to repeat that either.

I do think we'll get Samurai and Red or Blue Mage. The reason I think Samurai is because at one of the HW events, there was a music folder for it on one of the dev's computer. That might have been music for DRK in the end, who knows -- but I'm sure they wouldn't just throw that away. And Red/Blue because of the programmer event.

I still have hope for Beastmaster though...

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

I think the Vice Versa is what's confusing... It doesn't make any sense since you used "And/Or" which would make the title by adding "vice versa" technically :
Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0?
And
Do YOU think we'll get a new Healer and/or Tank in 4.0?

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Huh, yeah maybe a miss use of 'vice versa'. It was more meant to mean like prioritise healers over tank or tank over healers, but it was most definitely not needed so sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

The ratio is 3:3:4:3 Tank:Melee DPS:Ranged DPS:Healer

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3:3:2:2:3
Tank:Melee:Ranged:Caster:Healer

I'd rather they flesh out the existing jobs this time.

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Originally Posted by Felis

3:3:2:2:3
Tank:Melee:Ranged:Caster:Healer

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please read this from above

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Light Parties do not have 5 spots taking one from each, Full Parties do not have 10 spots taking two from each.

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Originally Posted by Doki

I'd rather they flesh out the existing jobs this time.

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that's unrelated, they should always be doing that regardless and they can't advertise that as a selling point of the expansion.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

please read this from above

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Yes, but you divided melee and ranged. So i thought you mean the gears and forgot the casters.

In party role it is 3 Tanks:7 DPS:3 Healer
and DPS is divided in 3 Melee:2 Ranged:2 Casters

Netherless, i think one of the next jobs will be a caster with a rapier.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Yoshi P expressed his preference for Samurai to be a DPS. So while not confirmed, people are assuming that if we do see SAM in the expansion. It will be a DPS. That, and we already have two sword wielding tanks. Another would be somewhat redundant.

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People have said this time and again and repeated as though it were gospel... It's not. Yoshi though a great producer/ director is not the end all beat all voice in the room when it comes to the final decision on Job role allotment. This is my Proof of my statement.
https://youtu.be/VpxsH2rBGuw Final Fantasy XIV PAX East 2015 Heavensward Presentation Stream
(job selection discussion begins at 22:20)

With in the same video link provided above detail is given to the fact that the designing, balancing, implementation of three jobs was both taxing and nightmarish, something that the team did not want to repeat...(24:00-25:45)

It is MY belief that we may only get a total of two jobs those being SAM and RDM, My hope is that SAM will be a Tank something that makes sense due to the fact repeatedly we have had Substantiated reports that both Samurai and Dark Knight were considered for the Tank role i.e. the role was chosen already...(28:27-29:30) After understanding that so much work goes into the addition of one job, to throw away assets already created would only serve to increase their work load, a preposterous idea given that as mentioned above it takes nearly a year from start to finish.

More feasible is the idea that what was shelved for HW will be brought to the forefront in 4.0 (implementation of already created assets for a Samurai tank) the addition of RDM or possibly BLU (either of which would be perfect for the much vaunted, desperately "needed" sword DPS)

Mind you, i can fully respect the idea that i am completely wrong and all of this is simply the mind set of yesteryear, however the fact that the Producer/ Director took the time to explain personally the design process of adding new jobs one would think Fans would take the time quote the man directly rather than "Yoshi said....."

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Originally Posted by Felis

Yes, but you divided melee and ranged. So i thought you mean the gears and forgot the casters.

In party role it is 3 Tanks:7 DPS:3 Healer
and DPS is divided in 3 Melee:2 Ranged:2 Casters

Netherless, i think one of the next jobs will be a caster with a rapier.

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it's directly within context of the paragraph above it which had nothing to do with gears.

a caster with a rapier can still be classified as a melee.

the devs currently distinguishes them as Melee DPS, Ranged Physical DPS and Ranged Magical DPS.

It is unlikely that we'll get more than two new jobs. And possible that we only get one new job.
Not too long ago when asked about jobS, Yoshi looked really flustered about the possibility of more than one new job. Take that any way you want.

They have also previously indicated that it's around one years worth of work to create a single new job. Despite this they added NIN mid 2.x, and 3 new jobs for 3.0, which they also indicated was way too much work to repeat.

All things considered, two jobs at most is what we'll get.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

It is unlikely that we'll get more than two new jobs. And possible that we only get one new job.
Not too long ago when asked about jobS, Yoshi looked really flustered about the possibility of more than one new job. Take that any way you want.

They have also previously indicated that it's around one years worth of work to create a single new job. Despite this they added NIN mid 2.x, and 3 new jobs for 3.0, which they also indicated was way too much work to repeat.

All things considered, two jobs at most is what we'll get.

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Agreed on this. It's unlikely we'll get more than two new jobs this expansion. If I were to guess, one of them is almost certainly a DPS, whilst the other could be any role.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

People have said this time and again and repeated as though it were gospel... It's not. Yoshi though a great producer/ director is not the end all beat all voice in the room when it comes to the final decision on Job role allotment. This is my Proof of my statement.
https://youtu.be/VpxsH2rBGuw Final Fantasy XIV PAX East 2015 Heavensward Presentation Stream
(job selection discussion begins at 22:20)

With in the same video link provided above detail is given to the fact that the designing, balancing, implementation of three jobs was both taxing and nightmarish, something that the team did not want to repeat...(24:00-25:45)

It is MY belief that we may only get a total of two jobs those being SAM and RDM, My hope is that SAM will be a Tank something that makes sense due to the fact repeatedly we have had Substantiated reports that both Samurai and Dark Knight were considered for the Tank role i.e. the role was chosen already...(28:27-29:30) After understanding that so much work goes into the addition of one job, to throw away assets already created would only serve to increase their work load, a preposterous idea given that as mentioned above it takes nearly a year from start to finish.

More feasible is the idea that what was shelved for HW will be brought to the forefront in 4.0 (implementation of already created assets for a Samurai tank) the addition of RDM or possibly BLU (either of which would be perfect for the much vaunted, desperately "needed" sword DPS)

Mind you, i can fully respect the idea that i am completely wrong and all of this is simply the mind set of yesteryear, however the fact that the Producer/ Director took the time to explain personally the design process of adding new jobs one would think Fans would take the time quote the man directly rather than "Yoshi said....."

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Now that is a solid source, I take back my previous comment then because that came straight from an official translator so thank you for that. Also your logic makes a lot of sense, so I agree there.

We'll get at least one tank or one healer guaranteed. Only adding dps would completely destroy queue times.

I can only imagine the CHAOS that will ensue on this forum if the next expansion brings only one job. I think you guys remember how bad it was when Heavenward dropped - "Only this for an expansion"; "little and underwhelming content"; "Not worth the money paid".

If they are planning on intreoducing less jobs than the previous expansion, they better counterbalance it with a LOT of relevant in-game content or else I fear for the game's health (and I'm not looking down on FFXIV or the dev. team, the next expansion is already CE instant-buy for me)

. It is probably a good idea to have a robotic defender as a tank class due to its highly protective armor. Can call it whatever plenty of examples out there like gundam androids robocop humanoid and robots...its just a real good suggestion. if not a half robot. I think that would be the best idea for a new tank or race.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...70347700452356

My Opinion on what really needs to be added next is job specific acrobatics hovering magicians and spells casters. Ninjas dodging with cartwheel backlips. Nicer jumps for dragoons like pole vaulting. better press button jumping animations that are unique to each players or running animation. Breaking the ice!

thank you for liking my suggestion

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

We'll get at least one tank or one healer guaranteed. Only adding dps would completely destroy queue times.

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To be honest with you, the only way to really balance the game, and it may not even help...but is to make
SAM, BLU, RDM and every other MOST wanted job as a tank.
There, we may or may not have an increase of tanks. That's why DRK is a tank.
Let em put the bad ass edgy job in the fronts lines for everyone.
Healer queues are as good as DPS right now, for me anyways.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Please do explain how they will make a caster who wears light armor and is squishy on the frontline a tank, without completely breaking the characteristics of the Red Mage job like FFXI did.

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Bit of shameless picking your most blatant quote, but traditionally Red Mage has had moderate defences, due to being able to equip Chain or light plate ((Not, admittedly, the heaviest armour.)) and equip swords. It'd still take some work to make them a tank, but Red mages are hardly squishy casters. And by traditional I do mean since FFI.

A WHM tank would be kind of interested tbh, you could create magic walls to avoid damage etc... Oh, your weapon could become a sword and shield when in combat. :D

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ee09f9911e.jpg

Think we would see a pure caster tank before a healer tank. Which honestly I am all for, could be like...
Tank Stance : Can not be interrupted cept by normal means (silence, stun, moving) with increased hate but lower damage
DPS stance :They can be interrupted but do more damage.

However, I kinda feel it will be Tank/Dps, I can't imagine them doing 2 dps unless they basically want to buff wait times.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

To be honest with you, the only way to really balance the game, and it may not even help...but is to make
SAM, BLU, RDM and every other MOST wanted job as a tank.

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While it would boost it for a time and I admit some people have learned to love tanking, putting all jobs as a Tank will not increase it by much. Some people flat out refuse to tank, regardless of which class gets put into it. I mean yeah for awhile we may see amazing times for all classes in DF but eventually it will trickle back down.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

To be honest with you, the only way to really balance the game, and it may not even help...but is to make
SAM, BLU, RDM and every other MOST wanted job as a tank.
There, we may or may not have an increase of tanks. That's why DRK is a tank.
Let em put the bad ass edgy job in the fronts lines for everyone.
Healer queues are as good as DPS right now, for me anyways.

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I hope so! we have mad designers why don't they just hire and intern a bunch, wtf

Why people insist on shoehorning RDM into a Tank I simply don't get. Sure a little work is all that's needed, but it already fits the wanted sword DPS class/ Job so well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA (fight starts @ 44 seconds)

There have been plenty of in series references to the job that denote just how powerful it can be, stylistically it is one of the most recognizable staple of the series, and again it would give players the much wanted sword DPS.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Bit of shameless picking your most blatant quote, but traditionally Red Mage has had moderate defences, due to being able to equip Chain or light plate ((Not, admittedly, the heaviest armour.)) and equip swords. It'd still take some work to make them a tank, but Red mages are hardly squishy casters. And by traditional I do mean since FFI.

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Wearing chain and light plate - aka light armor - is not enough to make a caster a tank. Also, making a quick comparison to FFXIV, where DRGs wear light armor and are squishy, tell me, how would a tank job, geared with similar equips to a DRG, survive a tankbuster? And if I remember right, Red Mages always had lower HP growth than a White Mage (since FFI).

I'm sure the devs COULD make Red Mage a tank, but just like FFXI did, by completely breaking apart from the Red Mage archetype and making a Mystic Knight by any other name.

dont really get what all the fuss about SAM/RDM is. i just dont see where they would fit into the balance,variety and lore of the game.
Personally i would prefer:
-Blunt damage off-tank to rival warrior, like a viking wielding a hammer (but not called that maybe berserker/ravager/enforcer?)
-Another pet class, beastmaster would be perfect and if they used whips it would also provide more blunt damage the game needs
-A caster that uses combos like MNK/DRG with hardly any DoTs, Psychic maybe?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I think they'll totally rework the class/job system and we'll get no full jobs but instead be presented with a bunch of sub-jobs that can be used to augment existing jobs, because it neatly solves the problem they have that a whole bunch of classic FF jobs don't really fit into the Tank/Healer/DPS trinity.

Ok, I don't really think they'll do that, would be neat though IMHO.

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To flesh out this previous post. Because I thought about it a bit since.
I was thinking mostly of Red Mage tbh, thinking you could equip it over the top of Paladin and you've got a tanky Red Mage casting enspells on its sword, refreshing the healer and doublecasting heals.
Or equip it over the top of Black Mage and you've got a DPS caster with some support skills and doublecast Flare.
Or equip it with White Mage and, well you probably get what I'm going for :).

I think they could do the same with Blue Mage as well, "learning" either monster attacks or team mates abilities depending on which role it's attached to, also if going with a copying or mimic theme over the more traditional learning you could have them spreading buffs and such around the party. Seeing that 'raging strikes' buff on the BRD and copying it for themselves for instance.

You could possibly use such a system to squeeze Thief into the game, taking a bit of inspiration from FFX you could have them focus on using mix to 'create' items that can be used for various effects, with steal being used to stockpile 'reagents' or 'stolen goods' or something. I'm thinking it would be similar in execution to Ninjas Ninjistu.
So for example you might want to equip it to Monk so you can have a grenade throwing monk that can dish out TP regenerating potions.

And lastly just for fun as I've given it no real thought, Beastmaster with each job being able to tame a specific complimentary pet. Mostly just so Dragoons can get a Wyvern ;).

Anyway, that's my idea. Mostly brought about by seeing all the discussion over Red Mage and knowing that however it ends up being implemented a lot of people will be unhappy. So why not allow people to, in theory at least, create the RDM they want.

I honestly doubt we'll get a new tank or healer in 4.0. RDM is what I'm mostly expecting, with SAM, DNC, BLU, or their own original Job coming out to compliment it. SAM would surprise me the least as it would be the best pair to spike the hell out of sells. Lore wise I'm sure SAM would show up because the Domans would be ready to take the fight back to the empire, with RDM being a native to Ala Mhingo

BLU and DNC have heavy Thavnarian vibes, so unless we end up dealing with them I doubt we'll see them next expansion.

I would love to see BST, and it would fit from a highland area (Ala mhingo), but I'd call that a DPS in a heartbeat.

I'm banking the next tank/healer will come in 5.0 and will be Garlean based. Magiteck tanking and healing would be interesting and allow them to use their own idea's instead of making older jobs work.

@jandor, you are essentialing asking for subjob system from xi?

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

@jandor, you are essentially asking for sub-job system from XI?

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Close enough I suppose, although if I understand correctly that was done by sticking two full jobs together and designating one as the 'lesser' job with fewer abilities.

I was proposing some jobs be created just as sub-jobs.
Seems to avoid having to squeeze popular classic jobs into a trinity role which they just don't comfortably fit and creates a system that can be easily expanded at a later date to include all sorts of niche jobs from even the most obscure FF title :).

You got all skills for subjob, up to half level of main job.

Let's her dance heal us pls :)

http://resource.mmgn.com/pwnage/user_11540_QN5X95T8.jpg

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Originally Posted by RosaLunaCelestia

Let's her dance heal us pls :)

http://resource.mmgn.com/pwnage/user_11540_QN5X95T8.jpg

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Yes please! A TP based healer would be a great shake up for the current party dynamics.

We have Tanks with DPS stance. Can we get a DPS with a tank Stance.
Increase Emity but decreased DMG output.

I think this type of cross job would be great for a lot of content. Where you only need 1 tank for 80% of the fight.

Job ability would be something with a 1 m cool down 1m effect.
So you would have to reapply it as long as you where off tanking.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Yes please! A TP based healer would be a great shake up for the current party dynamics.

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A healer that cant sprint without wiping the group? Yippie!

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Originally Posted by Ragology

A healer that cant sprint without wiping the group? Yippie!

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And either a healer with nothing but instant heals or a dancer that has to stand still all the time.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

A healer that cant sprint without wiping the group? Yippie!

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Maybe they can fix sprint to just be a cooldown instead of wiping out all TP. Because wiping out TP is dumb.