3.3 Hinderences

You're a big boy now in late game content regardless if its normal,hard, or extreme it should still be a challenge and not a free win.

People said the same thing about the Odin trial. "Ermergerd! It's impossible to beat Odin trial with the minimum ilvl!"

It just takes time and practice.

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Originally Posted by HorrorStory

After thinking about it for a bit, I can conclude that Nidhogg SoF storyline will likely be nerfed at some point. There is precedent with Vishap and old Steps, and this particular fight blocks the story from being continued. If it could potentially harm SE's bottom line by making people bail because they can't continue the game, then they'll end up making it easier. It's a cool fight, and shouldn't be nerfed, but...the writing is on the wall, I fear.

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its the end of the story, it blocks nothing

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

its the end of the story, it blocks nothing

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The end of the Dragonsong war, true (as far as we know).
But we still have the other Scions to find. And the Warriors of Darkness to deal with.

So yes, it will sadly be nerfed eventually, to make sure people can continue with the MSQ.

Telling people what they need to look for instead of insulting them would help stop people without much raid experience from wiping as well. Since no one wants to take the time in game to do that I'm hoping I can at least get someone to tell me how to record my gaming off of my ps4 so I can go back and see what I'm missing while running Final Steps. Watch a YouTube video 3 times and still can see what was wiping me.

Nidhogg is super easy, granted if you get bad groups it could be a looong night.
I just think having it made more difficult adds to the epicness of the cutscenes and all that stuff. Nidhogg i supposed to be powerful, if it were easy we would get that meh feeling

This patch finally got me to unsub. As much as most people here claim to be enjoying the new difficulty on most of the content, everything has become too tedious to be enjoyable, at least for me. The weekly raid and EX roulette for the lore tomes (pretty much the two things I did along with Midas Normal to try to keep relatively up to date gearwise) have both gotten too tedious and aggravating to do. I spent an entire hour today just trying to clear my EX roulette, which to me is just absurd.

I am not willing to keep this up on a daily/weekly basis. I basically dread doing *anything* now when I log on, and to me, that's a clear sign that I need to be moving on :<

Perhaps ironically, the only thing I haven't had any issue with was Final Steps. Cleared that in two shots, and it was simple to see where we messed up the first time and rectify it. Seeing as how that fight pretty much resolves the current story arc, to me this is actually a fine time to stop playing.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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Are you tired of the game or simply this is not your genre, the news dungeon has a fair difficulty to what is expected the first 2 weeks.

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Are you tired of the game or simply this is not your genre, the news dungeon has a fair difficulty to what is expected the first 2 weeks.

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I have never had groups struggle to this extent on expert roulette dungeons until this patch, even right on release day.

I have been playing this since 2.0 and been playing FFXI nearly since NA release, so I wouldn't say this isn't my genre. But when you feel like you can't even do the "easy" stuff without running into difficulties anymore, you have to wonder if you're a right fit for the game, and right now, I pretty much don't feel that way anymore.

Three wipes later, the fourth time was a win with just learning the mechanics.

Relax. Learn the fight. Stop complaining about the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I have never had groups struggle to this extent on expert roulette dungeons until this patch, even right on release day.

I have been playing this since 2.0 and been playing FFXI nearly since NA release, so I wouldn't say this isn't my genre. But when you feel like you can't even do the "easy" stuff without running into difficulties anymore, you have to wonder if you're a right fit for the game, and right now, I pretty much don't feel that way anymore.

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Easy?
They have come to take things easy at the time to put a little more difficulty exploiting all, I as not died as tanking any time in roulette EX.

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Easy?
They have come to take things easy at the time to put a little more difficulty exploiting all, I as not died as tanking any time in roulette EX.

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I don't really know if I'm understanding you at all, but in my opinion, something is wrong with the difficulty curve when groups are suddenly struggling just to clear the 4-man dungeons. If hour-long runs are what I'm gonna have to expect from these from now on, I'd rather just not bother anymore.

Uh, the content has only been out for a week and you unsub because you were expecting flawless 4 man dungeon runs and trials? Smh

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Uh, the content has only been out for a week and you unsub because you were expecting flawless 4 man dungeon runs and trials? Smh

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Again, I have never struggled this much with EX roulette dungeons or 24-mans, even on release day. This has turned something I could easily manage to hit lore cap for the week and stay relatively geared up, into a total not-fun chore. Tell me again why I should be sticking around anyway if I'm clearly not enjoying myself?

I also never expect flawless anything. What I don't expect is hitting a total roadblock (aka, repeated wipes to the same fight) in a 4-man unless someone is either afk, absolutely and obviously incompetent, or intentionally trolling the run.

And again, I've had no problem with Final Steps, not the normal version anyway.

cant believe a nidhogg normal QQ thread is 10 pages long

here the guide

hot wing = in hot tail = out dodge aoe's = you win banzai!

I guess OP was trolling?
They've not responded to anything nor do I think they've looked at their thread since creation, probably already forgotten about it.
Just sounds like a typical drive by poster (forgot the term)

Agreed if you want a challenge you can do savage/extreme content. Nidhogg normal is probably fine though. I got my first clear quite easily, and again via roulette with no wipes. Multiple wipe group is probably just bad luck you had with matchmaking. Weeping City on the other hand, so many groups failed even after practicing until the time limit, I wouldn't mind a slight adjustment there. They can keep it challenging but just a slight adjustment to be less punishing would be ok.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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This has to be the absolute dumbest thing I've ever read. Stop making up excuses. The real reason you unsubbed is bc you've grown tired of the game. Stop blaming "difficulty."

I have done all the new dungeons 7 times. 1 wipe out of all of it. One. That's it. And it was because the electricution debuff killed us before healer healed on my third run of Sohr. My very first run of Sohr was blind & we cleared it in 18 minutes, 0 wipes. None of these dungeons are anymore difficult than usual. You had bad parties. I've wiped 6+ times in Fractal bc the healer could not heal through the bosses w/o going oom, yet that dungeon is easy right? You see? None of these new dungeons have taken my DF team more than 25 minutes to clear of my 7 runs. You're sick of the game & need an excuse to stop playing. Do not put it on the difficulty.


Also. It's been like 3 days. How could you possibly judge anything based on that?

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

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I think they need to nerf boss hp. In my best run it still took 65 minutes to win with 3 wipes. That's nuts! And I STILL haven't gotten a drop so I have to go again! WHY DO YOU HATE ME RNG

We one-shot Nidhogg on the first try on my clear (Got it in trial roulette). I didn't even know it was a problem for people until helping my girlfriend gether clear.

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This has to be the absolute dumbest thing I've ever read. Stop making up excuses. The real reason you unsubbed is bc you've grown tired of the game. Stop blaming "difficulty."

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Wrong. If it wasn't for the overall difficulty of this patch, I'd still be playing. I'm not able to do a whole lot in this game, and I feel like this patch has taken away what little I could do.

But you know, keep on posting like you know my reasons better than I do, it definitely makes you look smarter :rolleyes:

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I have done all the new dungeons 7 times. 1 wipe out of all of it.

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So, what makes you think you understand the frustration I feel out of this patch, then, if you've had such a comparatively easy time of it all?

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Also. It's been like 3 days. How could you possibly judge anything based on that?

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Simple. After 3 days of other patches, I never ran into a total brickwall just from doing dailies/weeklies. Here, I have.

This may come as a surprise to you, but when you suddenly can't even do what's supposed to be the *simple* things in the game anymore without running into problems, it doesn't exactly do wonders for your motivation to keep running them.

The only thing that annoys me about Ozma is the other parties... >w>
They always run their meteors towards the party I'm in, to the point that the catwalk in between them is empty. =A=

The only thing that annoys me about Nidhogg is when people stand so far away they can't get healed by AoEs and can't run away in time when Nidhogg jumps in the air and does his fire-breath move. =A=

@Fynlar

I mean it took me 6 hours to clear mcach my first run(only 65 minutes my second so I guess people are learning)...I enjoyed winning but worry about having to do it so much for my drop bc it takes so long & Ozma & Doom guy are kinda guaranteed 1+ wipe. And Nidhogg took two groups too so I can sorta agree those are more difficult than usual, especially mcach.

But the dungeons? Really? They are easy as always. I'm sorry but you're not in your right mind. Like I said you got bad parties. I was comparing my experience to yours BECAUSE I got good/okay parties whereas you didn't. It's rng how good your team will be. You just happed to roll 1s on your runs & I got 90s.


I don't even know why I'm arguing....All I'm doing is trying to make you give it a second chance but maybe you should go play something else, your attitude won't be missed.

If anything at all, I like that you have to work "hard" for 230 gear instead of it just being handed out like candy. Good riddance I say.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This patch finally got me to unsub. As much as most people here claim to be enjoying the new difficulty on most of the content, everything has become too tedious to be enjoyable, at least for me. The weekly raid and EX roulette for the lore tomes (pretty much the two things I did along with Midas Normal to try to keep relatively up to date gearwise) have both gotten too tedious and aggravating to do. I spent an entire hour today just trying to clear my EX roulette, which to me is just absurd.

I am not willing to keep this up on a daily/weekly basis. I basically dread doing *anything* now when I log on, and to me, that's a clear sign that I need to be moving on :<

Perhaps ironically, the only thing I haven't had any issue with was Final Steps. Cleared that in two shots, and it was simple to see where we messed up the first time and rectify it. Seeing as how that fight pretty much resolves the current story arc, to me this is actually a fine time to stop playing.

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Unfortunately, it is likely time for you to move on if you're quitting over getting a bad DF party within 3 days of a new patch with new content. Hopefully you can find a game that's more entertaining to you. Personally, I'm glad to see this thought process go and I hope this patch leads to a sort of culling of people who adhere to it.

This game was designed and budgeted to run on many many less subscribers than it currently has (when it came out they were hoping to get and maintain around 400k) so I don't fear the apocalyptic server shut-down that everyone likes to spout on their way out.

However, myself and many others seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. You know what content I found tedious and aggravating? Face-rolling my way through Anti-tower and Lost City of Amdapor day in and day out for my lore tomes or trying not to pass out as I dozed my way through the snooze-fest of Void Ark for the umpteenth time. I found the content so lack-luster that I have spent millions on Tier 5 materia just to avoid having to step foot in there and I'm currently annoyed that I need a Mhachi Farthing as well as a Penny because it means I have to go into the damn thing about 6 more times than I ever wanted to. The sad thing is, though, that given a week or two, all of this content will be just as mind-numbingly tedious as you desire it to be, you just have to give everyone a chance to see it a few times. SE needs to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator.

OP claims that challenges should be reserved for Extremes and Savages but I feel SE has to push the casual crowd to step-up their game a little bit. There are only so many stupidly easy DPS checks and simplified mechanics that the development team can come up with before it crosses the line into the realm of QQ threads on the forums. If everyone was forced to gradually get a little bit better, they could try to implement new concepts into even the normal tiers of trials and raids.

Square enix has to push those people who are ''lazy'' or those who just sit there and do nothing. It's a good step, because those people needs to see and understand they have to improve.
Many people sadly, as many have said in this thread, people want to get things handed out like candy, which is sad. Don't people play for the challenge rather than have everything giving out like some sort of candy? I just find it really funny when people complain nid or 24 man raid is hard now. It's not that hard and I'm well aware the gap went up higher which is GREAT!
This means people who sit there in and out all day doing nothing has to something to do now and work for it. Good job on square enix, because this is a step that makes people realizes how bad they can be.

Go play a F2P like Blade & Soul or Black Desert. The PvE is hilariously easy to the point you won't even have to pay attention. That's more or less what you seem to be asking for. I hate this instant gratification generation. It's been out three days. A few wipes should happen.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Go play a F2P like Blade & Soul or Black Desert. The PvE is hilariously easy to the point you won't even have to pay attention. That's more or less what you seem to be asking for. I hate this instant gratification generation. It's been out three days. A few wipes should happen.

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That's not always so true, if you look at 4 man raid, it has no aoe circles on floor, you have to look after boss animation. I talk about Blade & Soul here.

Not sure what all the upset is about to be honest. I cleared it yesterday after trying with a few groups. Two of them couldn't kill the adds fast enough, the rest couldn't keep enough people alive til the last phase and we were out of mp from rezzing folks. But it's a fun fight to heal and I think the difficulty was spot on, enough to be challenging and engaging without too much coordination to complete in a straight pug. Really it wasn't anything that anyone who'd done the msq shouldn't have been able to handle after a few tries (excepting dps issues)... none of the mechanics were anything new.

My biggest issue with the whole thing as been the extreme level of toxicity by the community. Verbally abusing someone for struggling with the mechanics is NOT going to help the figure it out. You're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. I agree that us casual players need to learn the machanics better since most of us don't do raids but none of us deserve to be disrespected like this either. I gerantee those keyboard warriors wouldn't act like this face to face. Want to reduce wipes find out what the player is overlooking and advise them especially if you want to prance around with a mentor symbol and if you get the " don't tell me how to play" line then all bet are off in regard to how to treat that person

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Originally Posted by Warghoul570

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Problem is, it's not about mechanics, it's also about players REFUSING to listen to what people say when a player dies a lot. You see the problem is also when people do expert roulette, they act like its a level up dungeon when it's not. Just because it's facerol content doesnt mean you have to ignore how you should play the class. How many people been doing so bad dps and wiped boss at 1-2%. Those people doing low damage could done more, which would lead to a kill as well. Bigest problem are the people who don't do anything they should do or lack some part of it. I've never seen people complain when people learn fast and take advice, I see people shout and scream when people aren't willing to listen or even do a propper rotation. That my friend is toxic.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Go play a F2P like Blade & Soul or Black Desert. The PvE is hilariously easy to the point you won't even have to pay attention. That's more or less what you seem to be asking for. I hate this instant gratification generation. It's been out three days. A few wipes should happen.

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Hell, Blade and Soul is so easy you can bot the entire game and win.

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Unfortunately, it is likely time for you to move on if you're quitting over getting a bad DF party within 3 days of a new patch with new content. Hopefully you can find a game that's more entertaining to you. Personally, I'm glad to see this thought process go and I hope this patch leads to a sort of culling of people who adhere to it.

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Not just one, several. Like I said, the game has gotten too tiresome to keep playing.

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However, myself and many others seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. You know what content I found tedious and aggravating? Face-rolling my way through Anti-tower and Lost City of Amdapor day in and day out for my lore tomes or trying not to pass out as I dozed my way through the snooze-fest of Void Ark for the umpteenth time.

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I actually liked these dungeons because they didn't take an hour to complete, even with "bad" parties.

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The sad thing is, though, that given a week or two, all of this content will be just as mind-numbingly tedious as you desire it to be,

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It's already gotten mind-numbingly tedious. It wasn't before. That's my whole point.

I seen a thread nidhogg the destory of pugs seem nidhogg is challanging enough

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I actually liked these dungeons because they didn't take an hour to complete, even with "bad" parties.

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Have it ever occurred to you that even if you do roulettes, you still shouldn't slack. If you have that sort of attitude everywhere, things like wiping 24-7 fest in new 24 man will happen. Many slack and take things too granted. It's all about mememememememememe but not about the rest in the team trying their best. Why do people want to get things handed at them for doing nothing? What's so hard improving yourself as a player, because if you don't, you might as well play singleplayer. Even if you do, you still will see hinderences in that game, because you need to do certain things to beat a boss, fight or whatever you are doing. And if you can't that's completely fine, because you play alone, you don't do that in a multiplayer game.

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Have it ever occurred to you that even if you do roulettes, you still shouldn't slack.

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I don't see what this has to do with anything. Where did I say that I "slack", in your words?

Is it just because I happen to like being able to clear 4-mans in a reasonable amount of time because that's what I've been used to? Because I'm far from the only one around here with that point of view.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

I think they need to nerf boss hp. In my best run it still took 65 minutes to win with 3 wipes. That's nuts! And I STILL haven't gotten a drop so I have to go again! WHY DO YOU HATE ME RNG

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Sounds like it wasn't your best run then.

Ever stop to think that those 3 wipes contributed heavily to the 65 minutes?

When they're current, an extreme fight should only take about 8-9 minutes, assuming everything is executed as it should be.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't see what this has to do with anything. Where did I say that I "slack", in your words?

Is it just because I happen to like being able to clear 4-mans in a reasonable amount of time because that's what I've been used to? Because I'm far from the only one around here with that point of view.

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If you're taking an hour to complete a single expert roulette, the issue is very much on you regardless of your role.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't see what this has to do with anything. Where did I say that I "slack", in your words?

Is it just because I happen to like being able to clear 4-mans in a reasonable amount of time because that's what I've been used to? Because I'm far from the only one around here with that point of view.

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1 hour to complete a dungeon is slack, believe it or not, that's slack.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I actually liked these dungeons because they didn't take an hour to complete, even with "bad" parties..

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People tend do to this and then transfer that slacknes into 24 man raid or other content and expect a free roll. No it doesn't work like that. I'm sorry I said YOU, but you said you did a dungeon for 1 hour, which is super slow. Many people with that sort of attitude wont get far in bigger groups, that's why many go crazy when people don't listen in new 24 man raid and those who doesn't listen just sit back and act like it some sort of leveling roulette, it's selfish and stupid.

Ahh, yes, because I had an EX roulette take me an hour, it must be my fault, right? What happened to the whole "this game is a group effort" mentality you guys were pushing just a few pages ago?

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you said you did a dungeon for 1 hour, which is super slow.

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No kidding. Why do you think I'm finding this patch frustrating?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Ahh, yes, because I had an EX roulette take me an hour, it must be my fault, right? What happened to the whole "this game is a group effort" mentality you guys were pushing just a few pages ago?



No kidding. Why do you think I'm finding this patch frustrating?

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I get you but it's a good step SE made things harder, because people are slacking hell. I know you are frustrated as well, since you said u unsubbed I wish you good luck. However this isn't all on random people but me, you and everyone else in this thread. It is a group thing yes, but keep in mind some people in this thread also are reason why we wipe too, because some in here choice to ignore what people say. I wish you good luck too.

I do know the patch is new and there will be fail, but yes if there is anything we do agree on, people will slack and we see them in bigger numbers since 3.3 came out and I'm super glad it happen, it wont make me unsub, far from it, it will actually store some hope and faith back to square enix.