Class Request: Necromancer

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...j2B4Fk4odep2rQ

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Hhahahaha that's full of win.

AoC... necromancer... really? i will respect your opinion... but i won't like it.

Age of Conan didn't have necromancers.

They had Demonologist. They aren't necromancers.

Necromancers can only control the undead. Demonologist summon demons, which are way more powerful than any undead creature.

im all down for summoner, necromancer sounds creepy but fun^^

i guess im going for nekomancer, with all the incoming catboys at 2.0 together with all the miqote right now i will be the mightyest kitty in all eorzea lol

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Age of Conan didn't have necromancers.

They had Demonologist. They aren't necromancers.

Necromancers can only control the undead. Demonologist summon demons, which are way more powerful than any undead creature.

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Understanding that this thread is full of misinformation at this point I thought I would just step in on this comment.

AoC definitely has Necromancers, as well as Demonologists. They are both playable classes, separate, and differentiated.
In AoC a Necromancer could summon a number of different types of pets (mage type, melee type, automaton type, and my favorite, Life Stealers (melee type with life suck) Additionally based on bonusing you could spawn a Freeze pet. They may have raised the max # of pets, but at the time I played it was 8 regular pets plus the occasional freeze bonus pet.

Of course there are dissenting opinions, but this was the my favorite implementation of the Necromancer class. The fact that the pets were not tied to some expiring, time based stat (i.e. time limit (excluding freeze pet), mp usage, tp usage, etc) was boss. You could keep your army indefinitely. It was most fun. Unfortunately, when you look at other games that implement this class, I will use Rift in this example, it is implemented in a way where controlling multiple pets is time based. It was actually based on Stamina - but as long as multiple pets were up, stamina drained rapidly. I think the max time you could keep 5 pets up was 20 seconds, and thats running full on stamina regen. Stamina in Rift is pretty much equivalent to TP in XIV. That was a real bummer after playing the AoC Necro. In other games, you are limited to one pet. This is also a mega bummer and definitely not boss.

I don't really care what they call the job although I agree with the comments that this AWFULLY HAPPY WORLD needs a little drop of darkness in it.

I would just like to see a class that meets the following litmus test

1. Can control pets
2. Can control more than one pet simultaneously
3. No time limit or other stat limit causing pets to expire (outside of pet death as a result of HP=0)
4. Pets should be treated as any other PC, I.e. they can be cured, buffed, etc.
5. Pets should offer the ability to siphon life from the enemy to the pet controller.

Playing Necro in AoC could split two ways, as a non pet focused class, or as a pet focused class. Playing as a pet focused Necro, you had a variety of black magic (including AOE) as well as a variety of tricks your pets could do to support you.

It would be boss to see this in XIV, as long as it was not implemented in some kind of convoluted way.

Some people mentioned lagging out in AoC due to multiple Necro's on screen. I use to Raid quite a bit in that game. If you have raided in AoC you are aware that you can have up to 24 people in a Raid. On top of that you could have a room full of "trash mobs" and multiple Necros in your Raid. When I played I that game it was on a Core 2 Duo using a Radeon 5750 in DX10 with mid range gfx settings.

I never had any lag problem. That is a 89 dollar video card and a 130 dollar chip based on today's pricing.

I hope you are setting the bar higher than that minimum hardware spec for the future of XIV.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Necromancer, yes please!

Enchanter (EQOA-style)- Pet class that can summon armors.
How it could work:
3 Different armors being able to be summoned.
1. Heavy Armor- Tank Pet
2. Light armor- DD pet
3. Cloth Armor- Mage Pet

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The job "Animator" comes to mind.

All and all though, It could definently be a future job for THM at the very least, with all the lore of the death side of there study anyway.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Yeah I really can't stand people "necro isn't FF", you guys really are game nazis. No innovation or anything will ever be allowed to the FF series because you're a close minded person, and they count you among their consumers. That's sad.

Bring back necro with concept that White magic will kill them, add another element to game play, make WHM have to think about not curing the necro. This thread reeks of the current players "ifrit is too hard gimp it because I'm not good enough" thought process.

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Are you so insecure with yourself that you feel the the need to call others close minded because we want it to stay in the realm of Final Fantasy? Simply because we do not agree with what other people want or say? I am not close minded, I am for having necromancy type magic but the class itself has no place in Final Fantasy that I have ever seen.

It's kind of like drinking your favorite beer, imagine if the company just out of the blue just started adding lime flavor to your beer and it doesn't say anything about it on the can or label or anything. You would most likely be disgusted. Obviously I doubt anyone would truly be disgusted if they added necromancer but it just doesn't fit in the lore of the game or into any of the jobs themselves. Would take far too much work to add something to the game like that which has no ground to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Are you so insecure with yourself that you feel the the need to call others close minded because we want it to stay in the realm of Final Fantasy? Simply because we do not agree with what other people want or say? I am not close minded, I am for having necromancy type magic but the class itself has no place in Final Fantasy that I have ever seen.

It's kind of like drinking your favorite beer, imagine if the company just out of the blue just started adding lime flavor to your beer and it doesn't say anything about it on the can or label or anything. You would most likely be disgusted. Obviously I doubt anyone would truly be disgusted if they added necromancer but it just doesn't fit in the lore of the game or into any of the jobs themselves. Would take far too much work to add something to the game like that which has no ground to begin with.

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He's right though. Saying it doesn't fit into the lore of the game is a terrible excuse as they can do what they please with what little lore they have available (Expect mass retconning in 2.0). Necromancer isn't FF but Puppet Master is? Give me a break. It could work and work well.

It also fits the theme of Thaumaturge perfectly. I've seen suggestions on these boards that were waaaay worse than a harmless necromancer. I honestly don't even know what "within the realm of Final Fantasy" is suggesting. A Necromancer can ride a chocobo and rock a fruity pink haircut.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...j2B4Fk4odep2rQ

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I don't agree much with his comment, but in his defense, that hat was for RDM lol.

I'd also rather have an enemy or a group of necromancer enemies than the class itself to be played, just seems more in tradition with ow it's been in the earlier games. But if they do implement it I guess it could be interesting, I highly hope that it's not a western kind of Necromancer though.

But honestly, if we are already getting pet classes like SMN and BST then I don't see the necessity for many more pet classes, (and if there are more then I'd love to have PUP again) especially since these will need some differentiation from eachother. Right now the priority should be mage classes, like Yoshida stated in various interviews.

When are people going to learn that there is no such thing as an "FF staple". The only thing that truly ties these games together is the constant change. Each new game takes a few things from the older games, and adds in new things of there own. Where would we be if the people making the games had that kind of mentality?


The people making 7 introduced Materia, it wasn't very "FF" at the time.

Also, 6 was the introduction to a steampunk-like setting, something that was pretty different from any FF before it and that influenced all the games after it (exept IX). If not for FFVI you would be claiming the Garlean Empire wasn't very "FF"

When they made FF3, what was the new creation that had never been in a FF game and was decidedly not very FF-like? MOOGLES. In fact moogles are a direct rip-off of one of Square's other games, Seiken Densetsu.

The same is true for true for Chocobos (a rip off of the birds from Nausica) and Cid (a rip off a spanish folk tale), not introduced until the second game.

Hell the entire first game wasn't very "FF" because it was a blatant rip-off of Dungeons & Dragons, even down to Bahamut and Tiamat (two warring dragons in D&D lore).

The list goes on and on. They can add whatever they want to the game because the very heart of the FF-style is change and innovation!

I just find it sad that we are having this argument over something like "Necromancer" which has been in many FF games. No one claimed that adding Materia didn't have the FF feel even though Necromancers have been in more FF games than Materia has.

tldr, quit whining, if they want to add an event where a giant sized Captain America fights off Godzilla in the streets of Ul'dah while the Ghostbusters try to contain them, we can't really stop them. We can claim it doesn't have the feel of an "FF game" all we want, but in the end, we aren't making the game. So what is "FF" is NOT our decision.

I just don't feel Necromancer fits the lore of this game or feels "Final Fantasy" at all. Summoner and Beastmaster will probably be the only pet classes.

Every time someone say, "i just don't feel blah blah in final fantasy blah blah.."
I'll kick a puppy, and punch a kitten.

Well considering that one of the first side quests revolved around a thau creating bobbles that would cause its owner to reanimate after death and seek out other bobble owners to kill them. In an attempt to create an army of the undead (until the whole thing goes comically wrong). I wouldn't exactly say Necromancer as a job would be that far flung of a idea in the context of eorzea.

Now i realize that there about to play musical chairs with the ability and skill pools of the classes. But if you look at the way thau operates when using a pure skill set right now, Hell its a pet away from being similar to Diablo II's Necro (Focused on debilitating and enfeebling).

Yes, if you play the Ul'dah storyline, you know this. Reanimating the dead IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE in Eorzea. So don't tell me it wouldn't fit with the game, it's already in the game!

It's a secret dark magic now, but a continuation of this storyline could very well result in the knowledge of necromancy becoming more well known and BOOM: Necromancy class. I think that's a perfect idea for an expansion.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...j2B4Fk4odep2rQ

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Okay, smarty britches. =P

1. You know that, despite the name, that hat is for a Red Mage.
2. I'm not talking about that kind of Warlock.

I'm talking about this kind of Warlock:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Wallpaper.jpg

I'm definitely not one of the people running around here fighting against change or innovation (jump, can I have it?). But saying that Necromancers and Warlocks aren't very Final Fantasy is just the short answer.

The long answer is that there are plenty of other MMOs that are centered around dark fantasy. Some of the most depressing quests I've ever completed in a game were in WoW's Plaguelands (pre-Cataclysm) and in Icecrown. Warhammer's Dark Elves relished in the pain they inflicted. I was disgusted by a scene where a group of Dark Elves are beating the White Lions' pets. I was hoping EA would remove it after beta, but it still made it into the final product. I didn't feel that animal abuse was appropriate to see, even if it was a video game.

I think that Final Fantasy should certainly grow and change with the times, and become edgier and modernized. But one thing I've always loved about the FF series is that darkness is tempered with hope. Dark classes, however, only serve to change the overall tone of the game. I prefer not to play yet another game that embraces classes who control undead or use demonic magic.

Honestly, IMO, Thaumaturge is pushing it enough.

Well, FFXI had Necromancer sects (NPCs), you even have to seek out one of those Necromancers to bring this guy's Mannequin to life, it even shows why Necromancy is a banned art (in the middle lands, Near East thrives on Necromancy of some type), since throughout the fight, Alsha will basically begin crying and try to kill herself because the soul that was attached to it doesn't want to be "revived".

Puppetmaster was originally to be Necromancer, as said, but they went against it because (their excuse/reason) was the job would be weak in daylight hours (5:00 - 17:59) and powerful in night hours (18:00 - 4:59), so it would be a job that wasn't useful a lot of the time, it would be fun as hell to play (I love pet jobs) but this is why they went with the PUP route:

The "half usefulness" translated perfectly into the Master + Automation playstyle, if you slacked on your Automata upkeep, you were useless, however if you didn't, the automata alone was more powerful than a standard player, combined that with a competent player and you have one powerful job.

The whole point to bringing up the 'reimagined Necromancer, aka Puppetmaster'? In the Treasures of Aht Urhgan storyline, Aphmau's Automatas Mnejing and Ovjang were the best examples of Necromancy in the hands of "not so evil people", because the souls attached to them were basically souls of previous guardians to the other Empresses of Aht Urhgan -- Since in order for your automation to even work a soul has to be attached to it, which in basic terms, is Necromancy. Raising and controlling the dead is just one part of it, in recent years (around early 2000) Alchemy has been linked to bringing people back from the dead and whatnot because of mangas like Full Metal Alchemist, so the concept of Necromancy has been in FFs and FF history quite a bit, it's just realized in a different way from western style necromancy in media.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Okay, smarty britches. =P

1. You know that, despite the name, that hat is for a Red Mage.
2. I'm not talking about that kind of Warlock.

I'm talking about this kind of Warlock:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Wallpaper.jpg

I'm definitely not one of the people running around here fighting against change or innovation (jump, can I have it?). But saying that Necromancers and Warlocks aren't very Final Fantasy is just the short answer.

The long answer is that there are plenty of other MMOs that are centered around dark fantasy. Some of the most depressing quests I've ever completed in a game were in WoW's Plaguelands (pre-Cataclysm) and in Icecrown. Warhammer's Dark Elves relished in the pain they inflicted. I was disgusted by a scene where a group of Dark Elves are beating the White Lions' pets. I was hoping EA would remove it after beta, but it still made it into the final product. I didn't feel that animal abuse was appropriate to see, even if it was a video game.

I think that Final Fantasy should certainly grow and change with the times, and become edgier and modernized. But one thing I've always loved about the FF series is that darkness is tempered with hope. Dark classes, however, only serve to change the overall tone of the game. I prefer not to play yet another game that embraces classes who control undead or use demonic magic.

Honestly, IMO, Thaumaturge is pushing it enough.

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I was only having fun!! I mean we all want That type of warlock right?! errr... Red Mage.

ive suggested necomacer being a thm job several times. thm's do have a fascination with resurrecting the dead after all.

I haven't read the entire thread but I figured it would, or soon will, end up in: Necromancer's not a classic FF job, GTFO.

I personally wouldn't mind a necromancer class.

After a review of the thread it seems to split about 50/50 yes/no for Necro in XIV. I am surprised. Really surprised.

Perhaps they should instead add "BubbleBlower" and give him a wand with a hoop on the end and a bottle of bubble juice.

The game seriously needs more darkness. Just to add some salt to that, I thought one of the tenants of XIV was to move forward. There is an awful lot of people in this thread that seem to want FF in general to stagnate or regress, not progress.

The world aint all rainbows and butterflys! cant have light without darkness for without one the other is meaningless! Eorzea needs to start drawing on some forbidden powers soon or the garleans with their magitek and gunknuckles are gonna steamroll us lol.

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/8819/1334973155285.jpg

Necro-Bump!

I would like to see every job possible make it in FFXIV, and I think we need to discuss more about Necromancer's potential, and there is already a story about necromancy in Ul'dah history/lore.

I think its safe to assume it wont make it in FFXIV ARR, but in a future expansion it makes perfect sense for it to be implemented later along with other advance jobs.

I think necro-thread-hunting is becoming a new sport on these forums. >.<

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I think necro-thread-hunting is becoming a new sport on these forums. >.<

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Well, we are waiting for BETA so there's nothing wrong with this thread. Unlike the "FFXIV is not being remade for you" thread, yes I know I was a necromancer cause of that. lol X3

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I think necro-thread-hunting is becoming a new sport on these forums. >.<

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lol yep ;( .....

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I think necro-thread-hunting is becoming a new sport on these forums. >.<

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Because making an new thread when a thread on the topic already exsists is NOT the correct course of action!

To add, Zombies and walking skeletons exsist in this game, so I beleive somewhere there are necromancers making these zombies. We can learn from them....

If Necromancer ever managed to get the go ahead i can imagine a much different pet job to the ones that came before it. Where as with Summoner, ffxi Dragoon, Beastmaster and Puppetmaster theres some kind of bond. I see Necromancer as being cold. The pets are expendable fodder for the Necromancer to use however he/she wishes. Rising them from the depths with a spell, Rather than how can i keep my pet alive the longest it would be whats the most beneficial way for my pet to die. Like detonating them to do damage, Making them cover you/allies from an attack, Sacrificing them to buff/debuff, using them as sacrificial decoys.

I really don't like the "Necromancer" style job.. Although it would be wrong to deprive the fans of it if it really is in the THM lore.

I just really don't like the idea of a "hero" playing a traditionally "evil" job. Raising ghosts/skeletons etc from the dead is just too grim and dark for a "hero" to play I feel.. I would be open to a dungeon boss that has necromancer like abilities though..

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Originally Posted by Altena

I really don't like the "Necromancer" style job.. Although it would be wrong to deprive the fans of it if it really is in the THM lore.

I just really don't like the idea of a "hero" playing a traditionally "evil" job. Raising ghosts/skeletons etc from the dead is just too grim and dark for a "hero" to play I feel.. I would be open to a dungeon boss that has necromancer like abilities though..

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You basically summed it up for me - necromancy is a dark, evil art which is contextually at odds with the game's central theme. This isn't World of Warcraft where players can choose an 'evil' or 'good' side - we're all meant to be on the side of 'good' here, so playing as an evil mage who can raise an army of the undead just doesn't sit with that.

Besides, lore wise the game would actually give reason for such a power to be despised - it's not too dissimilar to the Garleans wanting to wipe out the 'beastmen' (and those with the Echo) for summoning Primals. If theoretically Eorzean adventurers could use necromancy, then that's virtually just vindicating Garlemald's 'end justifies the means' policy of assaulting Eorzea to destroy anything that they could consider a threat.

Hence, those wanting a Necromancer job in FFXIV (or hell, even in FFXI for that matter), don't hold your breath.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I really don't like the "Necromancer" style job.. Although it would be wrong to deprive the fans of it if it really is in the THM lore.

I just really don't like the idea of a "hero" playing a traditionally "evil" job. Raising ghosts/skeletons etc from the dead is just too grim and dark for a "hero" to play I feel.. I would be open to a dungeon boss that has necromancer like abilities though..

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

You basically summed it up for me - necromancy is a dark, evil art which is contextually at odds with the game's central theme. This isn't World of Warcraft where players can choose an 'evil' or 'good' side - we're all meant to be on the side of 'good' here, so playing as an evil mage who can raise an army of the undead just doesn't sit with that.

Besides, lore wise the game would actually give reason for such a power to be despised - it's not too dissimilar to the Garleans wanting to wipe out the 'beastmen' (and those with the Echo) for summoning Primals. If theoretically Eorzean adventurers could use necromancy, then that's virtually just vindicating Garlemald's 'end justifies the means' policy of assaulting Eorzea to destroy anything that they could consider a threat.

Hence, those wanting a Necromancer job in FFXIV (or hell, even in FFXI for that matter), don't hold your breath.

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I'm compelled to shed some light, and wisdom on you both.

Please consider these irrefutable facts.

FFXIV Summoner job description. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/about/game/jobs/summoner

"The beast tribes of Eorzea worship and summon forth beings known as primals, among which are Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan. Yet what is a god to one man is a demon to another, for the city-states of Eorzea see these beings as a grave threat to their collective survival."

That is not exactly your rainbow, peaches, and unicorns is it..? Summoner is a forbidden art, just like Necromancer.

To top it all off, Necromancer is an advance job in FF5 Advance. Not just a WoW thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en4tgl0ZAPY


I don't mind if Necromancer makes it way in FFXIV, in fact I want it in FFXIV, but it'll be a damn shame if it didn't. There are other jobs I don't care about leveling, but the difference is that I don't deny them of their existence. I really think people should welcome new things that will appeal to many different players as possible.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

There are other jobs I don't care about leveling, but the difference is that I don't deny them of their existence. I really think people should welcome new things that will appeal to many different players as possible.

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That's fair enough, but just chucking a class/Job into the game because it's 'often requested' without taking into account how well it may or may not actually work or fit into the game's environment and setting would really just be fanbaiting, and would also be essentially repeating history ala 1.0 (basically a 'make it and they will come' mentality) - something Yoshida is extremely keen to avoid at all costs, rightly so.

As SE have stated in the past they're not going to be adding Necromancer to the game shows that Yoshi-P and his colleagues have thought this through and come to the same conclusion I did - that the class just won't work in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That's fair enough, but just chucking a class/Job into the game because it's 'often requested' without taking into account how well it may or may not actually work or fit into the game's environment and setting would really just be fanbaiting, and would also be essentially repeating history ala 1.0 (basically a 'make it and they will come' mentality) - something Yoshida is extremely keen to avoid at all costs, rightly so.

As SE have stated in the past they're not going to be adding Necromancer to the game shows that Yoshi-P and his colleagues have thought this through and come to the same conclusion I did - that the class just won't work in FFXIV.

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That's fair enough, but just chucking a class/Job into the game because it's 'often requested' without taking into account how well it may or may not actually work or fit into the game's environment

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There is already Necromancy lore in FFXIV. Thaumaturge is based on its storyline, so the game lore supports it. Also, Ul'dah fought in the past against a city which used raised zombies as soldiers.

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As SE have stated in the past they're not going to be adding Necromancer to the game shows that Yoshi-P and his colleagues have thought this through and come to the same conclusion I did - that the class just won't work in FFXIV.

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Can you provide any source to prove this?

I guess i can see both sides of this. On one side, necromancy is "traditionally" a dark art (not just a forbidden art. Summoning was forbidden because of its drain on the atherite, life blood, of the planet) and dosent really fit with the suggested norm of the "Good guys"

On the other hand, necromancy could still be used for good, it all depends on the user. Personally, i think it would be awesome to introduce this as a job later on, I mean more options are great right? Besides the lore is there so its not like adding panda monks in all out of no where... ;)

I would really like to see an original job for the world of Erozea, If its the Nnecromancer, that would work. But I would really like to see something like an Aether-Knight or Aether-Mage Something that draws off the power of the Aetherite. It would make for some pretty awesome themed armor and weapons. Sorry, going off on a tangent again...

Necromancy = Red(blood) Magick. Could be an offshoot of Thaumaturge. Bam.

Also saying the lore doesn't allow it doesn't take into account Summoner, which as pointed out is kind of a taboo art. If anything, FFXIV is rather Machiavellian in terms of allowing things.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I really don't like the "Necromancer" style job.. Although it would be wrong to deprive the fans of it if it really is in the THM lore.

I just really don't like the idea of a "hero" playing a traditionally "evil" job. Raising ghosts/skeletons etc from the dead is just too grim and dark for a "hero" to play I feel.. I would be open to a dungeon boss that has necromancer like abilities though..

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The way those at the College of Winterhold think about it is necromancy is a tool to be used, just like any other magic. Its only evil in the hands of those that wish to do evil deeds with it. One can easily do evil deeds with traditional black magic as well.

For all we know, I could use a summoned zombie to pick flowers and hand them out during a parade.

This would be the most unique unseen thing that final fantasy would do as a job. I HIGHLY support this (along with a gun blade wielding job :3) summoner needs a counterpart just like WHM/BLM this would fit so well. I don't expect to see it soon, but god would I love it!!!!!

A non traditionally super generic FF job? Count me in, and it fits the game perfectly despite what silly delusional people seem to think. In fact a bunch of people being a summoner in this game would be a hell of alot harder to believe lore wise, yet it's being shoved in anyway.

I personally am in the "leave Necromancer out of FFXIV camp" but for the sake of argument as long as they have added Red Mage, Samurai, Thief, Ninja, Dark Knight, Beastmaster, Geomancer,Time Mage, Hunter, Blue Mage,Viking, Berserker, Mystic Knight, Onion Knight, Machinist, Freelancer, Gunner, Devout, Scholar, Green Mage, Sage, Alchemist, Dancer, Gambler, Mime, Puppet Master, Memorist, then I suppose Necromancer would be fine.

arcanist/thm are requirement for summnor.. need something else for them. really not interested in necro for FFXIV.

Maybe a beastmaster, are charmer based job, but ehh. that is a while off.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

arcanist/thm are requirement for summnor.. need something else for them.

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Thaumaturge is based on Necromancer storyline..The entire lore is about them, and they had abilities that are blood rites, and a move called sacrifice which sacrifices HP to heal other members of the party. (Sacrifice was removed from a patch, it was also far more superior to Cure.)

The entire story is them trying to talk to the dead and being unable.


There are only two DoM class. CNJ and THM are the basics. If THM and PUG can be the classes to get BLM, then by all means THM can also be used for Necromancer.

OT:
People, please put on your thinking caps. I'm starting to wonder whether or not some players ever paid attention while doing THM and BLM quest. They even mentioned things related to necromancy in them.

Do people not read quest logs?