add an in game parser please!!!

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Dream all you like. I'll tell you what, show it to me when it happens. Just a suggestion for the parser crowd, don't hold your breath.

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Parsers are already here. Only console players don't have any access to them. At this point, creating an official parser would only restore balance between consoles and PC on that subject.

and before the "wah wah PC players don't use parsers either", I don't know of any serious end game PC player who isn't using a parser. Because it's mandatory if you want to improve yourself without being babysat by someone else having a parser.


Not to mention that the DPS are currently the only role not being accountable for being bad. You are able to scold bad tanks (losing aggro, no CD, etc). You are able to scold bad healers (people dropping dead from normal damage, heavy overhealing, etc). But god forbid you scold a bad dps. That's a one-way ticket to a ban.

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

But raise your hand if you've played MCH/BRD absolutely kicking ass but your DPS partner(s) are completely underperforming and you die to low DPS/boss takes noticeably longer, resulting in YOU being kicked or harassed because "brd dps low/mch bad dps".

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I will raise my hand, it's here, for example. If we had a parser, I could show raw numbers proving that no, it was not my fault. But I don't have anything legal in game to prove that.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Parsers are already here. Only console players don't have any access to them. At this point, creating an official parser would only restore balance between consoles and PC on that subject.

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Oh my what a NEWS FLASH. I never read that here on this forum before. Thank you soooooo much for telling me.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

how does that solve the problem though, that just divides the community even more between those that want it ended in 5 minutes and those that end it in an hour (using your example).

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The problem solves itself. If you put something that create competition, then problems arises. IF you put dps check in fight (the mistake made by devs) then obviously you start creating division, people who wants to kick others for not performing optimal. This started a domino effect that produced 1) A toxic community 2) elitist attitude 3) unfun content where the brain of people is more focused on numbers rather than enjoyin the fights.

Back then it wasnt like this, the whole concept of enrage/dps check (because basically a dps check is an enrage penalty if you dont succeed) didnt exist. For example you could fight a mob with DIFFERENT combination of party setup (and this is a plus because it gives you freedom to play with whom you want, friends, experiment setups, duo, trio, solo, go in 20, do whatever players want to have fun) and still succeed. The battle was designed in a totally different way, not including a enrage/dps check.

Example when you get a mob under a HP% it starts to get very hard, so its mechanic becomes harder, but not enrage or dps check, this is just wrong design. Of course the example of Pandemonium Warden was the opposite way, it shouldnt be THAT hard, but you can apply this to everything.

Make mobs mechanic harder, they gets more harder and punishing but dont put walls in fights because that is what frustrate people, makes community toxic, break set parties, make people rage, and create this crap that is going on. This is a MMO PVE oriented, not a competitive game, so everything that creates a competitive discriminating environment on game design is plain stupid imo.

Not that it matters but if you are wondering i am one of these people who always strived and played ultra hardcore, raids and what not, you name it. I know very well this topic.

Its just not fun, people have lost the fun because the amount of stress (savage statics, idk you but i've never seen so many people jump server, break partes, rage, quit, like this savage era) dps/enrage wall put on the fight. You need to give players freedom to play as they like. if they want to go with 3 healers, let them. This whole black box gamestyle where you can only play by "devs - meta" rules, is frankly stupid, and believe or not this dps/enrage is what contributed the most to create a toxic and discriminating community like this, hand to hand with the weekly lockout.

But that is just my opinion, if you read all the reactions and posts in here, problems people arise, you will see that they are all related to these things, toxic, elitism, dps check, lack of patience, parsing problems to check if your dps are optimal, and guess what is the source of it :)

I quit ffxi when max level was 75, and i dont recall a single fight with dps/enrage check. Idk if they introduced it later on, but i remember that these were goddamn fun fights. (just an example, there are many more games).
And to fully answer to your question, it solves the problem by giving players freedom to choose (thing that we dont have atm). You can pick between going with a group that clears in 4 minutes, or go with a group that isnt that dps capable but still clear the mechanic in 1 hour. IT doesnt take anything off anybody. While this dps/check prevent the second type of person to clear the content and enjoy the game.


/peace

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh my what a NEWS FLASH. I never read that here on this forum before. Thank you soooooo much for telling me.

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you seemed to so willfully ignore that point that it appeared important to renew it, juste in case

Toxic people are just toxic. People run third party parsers whether you know or you don't, ever wonder why that tank left the group after the first boss? 8/10 was because he wasn't pleased with dps.

In-game parsers would segregate groups, may force people to improve (God-forbid it) and maybe more people would be able to clear dos checks (btw, dps checks were introduced with pandemonium warden cause people who like to take hours to finish a fight reported that they took 18 hours to just give up...bad press from players who need a sense of limitation...I mean who the hell is going to keep trying for 18 hours...lol those PPP items weren't even hard to get)

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh my what a NEWS FLASH.

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You know, your posts recently... kind of prodded people to tell you.
I'll paraphrase:

You: There will never be parsers.
Others: You mean, there will never be parsers for consoles. We already have them on PC.
You: Pfft, prove it.
Others: Parsers exist. It's just not fair for console players.
You: *obvious sarcasm* Oh my, I never knew they existed.

...You see how your posts (and the posts you replied to) can be interpreted?

And no, that's not precisely what you posted, but when you say, "I'll tell you what, show it to me when it happens," in response to someone saying that it's only console players who don't have parsers, and that they're not likely to take PC parsers away (because apart from some heavy re-coding and stuff, I can't see how that'd be possible), it kind of indicates that you're saying, "I don't believe PC parsers exist."

(And before you assume: I actually don't use a parser. The closest I've come is through the Overwolf overlay, just to be able to tell more easily who's talking over teamspeak, since I still can't tell all the voices apart.)

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Are you guys ready for a radical idea?
On how to solve DPS-meter based harassment?

Here's a radical idea: Don't be bad.

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An oversimplification. Parsers don't take into account the different ilevels of the characters. Will people be called out as :bad: for simply having lesser gear?

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

An oversimplification. Parsers don't take into account the different ilevels of the characters. Will people be called out as :bad: for simply having lesser gear?

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we're not talking "900 instead of 1100" bad, we're talking "500 instead of 1200" bad. Yes they exist. I keep getting them in my expert roulette, or in alexander midas.

edit : mind you, the "900 instead of 1100" isn't even bad. Sub-performing, maybe. Depends on the gear. But bad ? That would be being a prick over nothing for 99% of the available content.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

we're not talking "900 instead of 1100" bad, we're talking "500 instead of 1200" bad. Yes they exist. I keep getting them in my expert roulette, or in alexander midas.

edit : mind you, the "900 instead of 1100" isn't even bad. Sub-performing, maybe. Depends on the gear. But bad ? That would be being a prick over nothing for 99% of the available content.

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500 dps is amazing you know! Only the best monks could dps that high in I110 on t8!

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Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

Toxic people are just toxic. People run third party parsers whether you know or you don't, ever wonder why that tank left the group after the first boss? 8/10 was because he wasn't pleased with dps.

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While performing mechanics properly is part of it, this is also why you see "3 tries and reform" PF groups. It's less obvious (and less risky if you're afraid of a report) to just break up the group and re-invite the good players instead of kicking the one guy who is only pulling 400 DPS. It effectively accomplishes the same thing.

The people who do not or cannot parse may never know they're not doing well because no one wants to tell them in case the response they get is "OMG YOU ARE HARASSING ME WITH NUMBERS! REPORTED!"

The ban-happy nature of the OF is probably enough to give many people pause on what they say in game.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

500 dps is amazing you know! Only the best monks could dps that high in I110 on t8!

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T8: everyone's favorite striking dummy. Ow! Stupid tank, stop hitting me!

The numbers thing and banning, I wish SE just treated this like most US regulated facilities and just underwrite it with, "we will give you a parser, but if you say anything that could be meant to be negative remarks (snarky criticism included) you may incur a 1-3 day ban."

I'd settle for an official parser being a premade party option. I think it'd be a perfect compromise. People that don't participate in higher levels of play don't have to worry about being told they're not good enough and the people that want/need it can use it on the content that benefits from it.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

I'd settle for an official parser being a premade party option. I think it'd be a perfect compromise. People that don't participate in higher levels of play don't have to worry about being told they're not good enough and the people that want/need it can use it on the content that benefits from it.

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People would still find a way to whine and complain, as they always do.

New posts on forums:
"OMG I cannot sneak into partyfinder groups anymore!"
"OMG I got kicked because people could see my pathetic dps!"
"OMG Elitists excluding casuals!"

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

An oversimplification. Parsers don't take into account the different ilevels of the characters. Will people be called out as :bad: for simply having lesser gear?

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It's hardly an oversimplification.

We aren't talking about people doing 5-10% less (1300 vs 1150) as a case of "omg you are doing this all wrong!"
We're talking 1150 vs 400.

And don't say these people don't exist at cap. Because they do. And they are more common that anyone would like them to be.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

We're not getting one. This bad debate has been going on forever on this forum. Get used to the idea. The dev team is smart enough to know it's not a good thing for the game.

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We already have a few.
We just can't talk about it very openly.

As if not making it easy to see the number makes the number not exist...

I think I had someone parsing an alt of mine in a dungeon. He told me that positioning on my monk would help my dps. I told him I knew that, but that I honestly didn't have the coordination to constantly move my character for the attacks. He was cool about it and said he understood. Since I don't plan on doing any instances outside of the MSQ ones, and maybe ones with hunting log targets, I don't think it will matter all that much. Course not long after that dungeon I found out I should have been putting points in STR and not DXT. ^_^' So I think putting all those points in the right stat probably helped.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

An oversimplification. Parsers don't take into account the different ilevels of the characters. Will people be called out as :bad: for simply having lesser gear?

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No, because we as players have the capacity to look at another character and see what gear they have equipped. Anyone with brain one in their head isn't going to expect Savage-tier DPS from a Dragoon wearing a mix of un-upgraded Law and green dungeon gear. However, if that same Dragoon is doing 400-500 DPS that's definitely cause for concern as that wasn't even top tier DPS back when Dreadwyrm was a thing. It's like I've said many times before: a parser is nothing more than a tool. Stupid people can use tools just as easily as the rest of us, the main difference being that they usually use them incorrectly.

I'd just like to thank all parser users that also us fflogs, as a ps4 user this really helps. It was nice to see i was top dps in my latest va run, considering I am what you would define as a casual on the pve scene.

(Only do VA once a week, and Midas NM runs)

Whilst I know there is improvement needed, I at least know that when I handle mechanics I still have a fairly decent understanding of my rotation.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

People would still find a way to whine and complain, as they always do.

New posts on forums:
"OMG I cannot sneak into partyfinder groups anymore!"
"OMG I got kicked because people could see my pathetic dps!"
"OMG Elitists excluding casuals!"

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Touché. They should just make separate server/data center that's pro-parse/pro-competition and call it a day. All the RPers and minion collectors can stay on balmung and anyone that actually enjoys healthy competition and doesn't get PTSD flashbacks they haven't dealt with from being picked last for dodgeball in elementary school can go and actually have a good time without being demonized and called elitists.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Touché. They should just make separate server/data center that's pro-parse/pro-competition and call it a day. All the RPers and minion collectors can stay on balmung and anyone that actually enjoys healthy competition and doesn't get PTSD flashbacks they haven't dealt with from being picked last for dodgeball in elementary school can go and actually have a good time without being demonized and called elitists.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/uH7d7zQlU67Mk/giphy.gif

That's what I call telling it like it is. xD

I can guarantee if this ever happened within the same exact day there would be threads claiming that whoever went to these worlds were elitists and that essentially they are the worst humans ever.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Touché. They should just make separate server/data center that's pro-parse/pro-competition and call it a day. All the RPers and minion collectors can stay on balmung and anyone that actually enjoys healthy competition and doesn't get PTSD flashbacks they haven't dealt with from being picked last for dodgeball in elementary school can go and actually have a good time without being demonized and called elitists.

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That could be a bit self destructive.... How long before that world's population shrinks past sustainable?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That could be a bit self destructive.... How long before that world's population shrinks past sustainable?

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I think you underestimate how many people would be ok being in a world were they are held accountable for how well they play.

Hell I'd be willing to say it would be the same size of some of the small worlds atm.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

I think you underestimate how many people would be ok being in a world were they are held accountable for how well they play.

Hell I'd be willing to say it would be the same size of some of the small worlds atm.

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I imagine bigger.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I imagine bigger.

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I imagine we're looking at an Odin sized realm at least.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That could be a bit self destructive.... How long before that world's population shrinks past sustainable?

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In all honesty, thinking about it as objectively as I can, I imagine a server that promoted more competition could be the largest server in the game. Hell, make it a PvP server and SE could draw in a much larger crowd. FFXIV loses tons of potential players every day with its nearly %100 focus on PvE. Look at the market. Games with PvP and competitive play dominate. People like competition. Its basic instinct. The bubble wrap that SE has placed on every corner of this game is a hindrance, not a boon. Competition doesn't breed a toxic community; the world does.

I say corral these hyper-competitive wannabe Alphas and put them on one server away from everyone else who actually plays the game for fun. I'll set the over/under for how long they last at 90 days.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I say corral these hyper-competitive wannabe Alphas and put them on one server away from everyone else who actually plays the game for fun. I'll set the over/under for how long they last at 90 days.

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I'd imagine far more than the "hyper-competitive wannabes" would transfer, anyone that actually wants to get content like EX primals and over would have a reason to transfer. Not a stretch to say it could be one of the most popular servers, considering the raiding and RP servers are the most popular currently.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

In all honesty, thinking about it as objectively as I can, I imagine a server that promoted more competition could be the largest server in the game. Hell, make it a PvP server and SE could draw in a much larger crowd. FFXIV loses tons of potential players every day with its nearly %100 focus on PvE. Look at the market. Games with PvP and competitive play dominate. People like competition. Its basic instinct. The bubble wrap that SE has placed on every corner of this game is a hindrance, not a boon. Competition doesn't breed a toxic community; the world does.

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I don't think PvP is as big as you may think it is. There's just as many games that also thrive on PvE, FF11 being one of them and is still running strong.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I say corral these hyper-competitive wannabe Alphas and put them on one server away from everyone else who actually plays the game for fun. I'll set the over/under for how long they last at 90 days.

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You act like caring about DPS and wanting to play your job correctly are mutually exclusive from 'playing for fun'.

Being at awful at something just isn't my cup of tea. Kudos to you if it's yours.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I say corral these hyper-competitive wannabe Alphas and put them on one server away from everyone else who actually plays the game for fun. I'll set the over/under for how long they last at 90 days.

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If it gets me away from people like you im all for it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

You act like caring about DPS and wanting to play your job correctly are mutually exclusive from 'playing for fun'.

Being at awful at something just isn't my cup of tea. Kudos to you if it's yours.

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You'd be wrong to draw that conclusion. However, someone ruining other people's enjoyment based on the slightest difference in DPS would fit the description of hyper-competitive to the letter. I'm no different from many normal gamers when it comes to wanting to make improvements wherever I can. Where I part company is the "dodgeball" mentality that poisons online communities (and school communities, for that matter).

In short, I'm speaking about people who don't know--or, more likely, don't care about--the limits of competition.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

You'd be wrong to draw that conclusion. However, someone ruining other people's enjoyment based on the slightest difference in DPS would fit the description of hyper-competitive to the letter. I'm no different from many normal gamers when it comes to wanting to make improvements wherever I can. Where I part company is the "dodgeball" mentality that poisons online communities (and school communities, for that matter).

In short, I'm speaking about people who don't know--or, more likely, don't care about--the limits of competition.

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Really, because it seems to be exactly what you said there... With a rather aggressive attitude as well... kind of a toxic one, almost like maybe a similar one to the one you are projecting on people who would like a tool for improvement maybe?

Also, what are your "limits of competition"? From what you wrote, I would guess fairly low.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Really, because it seems to be exactly what you said there... With a rather aggressive attitude as well... kind of a toxic one, almost like maybe a similar one to the one you are projecting on people who would like a tool for improvement maybe?

Also, what are your "limits of competition"? From what you wrote, I would guess fairly low.

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He comes across as being a hypocrite to me, but that may just be me..

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Originally Posted by Hayward

You'd be wrong to draw that conclusion. However, someone ruining other people's enjoyment based on the slightest difference in DPS would fit the description of hyper-competitive to the letter. I'm no different from many normal gamers when it comes to wanting to make improvements wherever I can. Where I part company is the "dodgeball" mentality that poisons online communities (and school communities, for that matter).

In short, I'm speaking about people who don't know--or, more likely, don't care about--the limits of competition.

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There's a large difference between a slight difference in DPS, which people in this thread have openly said they do not care about and someone in full i210 doing 500 DPS. Before you say I'm exaggerating, no, I just witnessed someone in full i210 doing 500 DPS. You have to actively try to do that poorly.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I say corral these hyper-competitive wannabe Alphas and put them on one server away from everyone else who actually plays the game for fun. I'll set the over/under for how long they last at 90 days.

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Absolutely hilarious post. Acting as if being good at a game is not fun is the best way to push your "people are entitled to play as bad as they want and pull everyone else down with them" agenda.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

You'd be wrong to draw that conclusion. However, someone ruining other people's enjoyment based on the slightest difference in DPS would fit the description of hyper-competitive to the letter. I'm no different from many normal gamers when it comes to wanting to make improvements wherever I can. Where I part company is the "dodgeball" mentality that poisons online communities (and school communities, for that matter).

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People have said multiple times that they don't care about slight differences in DPS, and they definitely aren't out to ruin someone's enjoyment over it. I know that there's a few people out there that will sit and berate others in stupid stuff like Expert dungeons for doing low DPS. Those people are few and far between, though. Most people that use parsers don't do that. At worst they roll their eyes, maybe bitch to their FC or linkshell a little about getting 'that guy' in DF. I know I don't speak up about people underperforming unless it's actually keeping us from clearing the content (yes, it's even happened in Expert Roulette).

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In short, I'm speaking about people who don't know--or, more likely, don't care about--the limits of competition.

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What you're doing is painting with a brush that's entirely too broad. Or you're backpedaling. I can't decide which.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

He comes across as being a hypocrite to me, but that may just be me..

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No, it's not just you.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Before you say I'm exaggerating, no, I just witnessed someone in full i210 doing 500 DPS. You have to actively try to do that poorly.

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That was me, sorry.