Roll-squatters, Loot Time Limits and those who never roll.

LOLOL i just tell them i rolled 98 and that they are wasting their time, works almost every time.

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Originally Posted by azlewood

LOLOL i just tell them i rolled 98 and that they are wasting their time, works almost every time.

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gotta try this now, at least once lol.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I have never seen this happen ever. Pics or it didn't happen plz.

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Sadly I don't own a delorian, but I it does happen, Way back in ARR on my very first WOD clear I 99'd puff of darkness and then lost in the reroll.

if you look at peoples rolls you wil occassionallyl see people rolling the same numbers though even if there not the winning rolls.

You wait on rolls, so that you can hope to wait out the other people and have a better chance to get what your wanting.

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

You wait on rolls, so that you can hope to wait out the other people and have a better chance to get what your wanting.

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Pretty lame, huh! I wonder how often it works for them to keep doing it.

I used to get shocked and angry at roll squatters in the past. It would make me frustrated because I couldn't understand how someone could be so ornery.

But later I realized, in MMOs today, there is no sense of community as there was in the past. In FFXI for instance, there were no inter-server duty finders and such, so everyone got to know regulars in the game. People actually got a reputation of sorts so they behaved if they wanted people to play with them. Now it's completely out of everyone's hands, party members are found automatically and you are very unlikely to see any of those people ever again. Of course they will be ornery. People do stuff to get people upset for the luls... Look at most forums!

So, once I realized that, I just came to understand that any roll for loot that matters in this game (when playing with strangers) has five minutes that I must wait to see what happens. I do my roll and tab over to youtube for five minutes, or I talk to friends in linkshells or whatever. The wait is just part of the game now to me. No amount of "shaming" is going to make everyone behave or change their thinking...

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

You're overlooking the fact that when someone else rolls before you and doesn't roll a 99, your odds become 1/98 instead because you now have one less number to potentially draw.

So no, your odds of getting the 99 do not decrease if your roll later.



I have never seen this happen ever. Pics or it didn't happen plz.

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Did you just start playing last week? Who hasn't seen identical numbers rolled on items? Or.... maybe you just don't pay attention.

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Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul

Pretty lame, huh! I wonder how often it works for them to keep doing it.

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When you're after a specific item and other people are just rolling on whatever, you can potentially eliminate 3/7 of your competition simply by waiting to roll on the item that you're after. Of course, if they're after the same item as you it doesn't change anything.

It actually works pretty often, though.

This is a great side effect of the archaic weekly lockout system that SE, for some reason, thinks encourages people to subscribe longer. If you can only win item per week, you're going to have people do whatever it takes to grant themselves the best chance of getting that item. Lockouts should be done away with entirely really.

Until they fix the stupid loot system for Alexander, this is going to happen. Most of the time when I go into Alexander, I have in mind the item that I want and an item I will settle for—but if I roll on the item I'll settle for, I risk locking myself out of the item I actually want if the rest of the group rolls on the item I'll settle for before they finish rolling on the one I do want.

I'm sorry that you're inconvenienced, but the fault lies with the way the loot system and lockouts are set up more than anything.

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if you look at peoples rolls you wil occassionallyl see people rolling the same numbers though even if there not the winning rolls.

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Did you just start playing last week? Who hasn't seen identical numbers rolled on items? Or.... maybe you just don't pay attention.

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I always look at the results on lots (even on stuff I don't want) and again, I have never seen this once. Again, pics or it didn't happen. No, I've been playing ever since 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

The fact that you can now see whether players have lot or passed is a start, but it's still not good enough. You don't even know if the players have even passed, so here's the solution:

You should be able to see everyone else's lot result, whether they have passed, or needed or greeded:

To explain:

Players SHOULD be able to see whether people have rolled for the loot, or passed on the loot, ESPECIALLY IF THEY NEEDED OR GREEDED ON THE ITEM.

Furthermore, if the player hit greed or need, you should be able to see everyone else's lot results.

In other words, exactly as FFXI had it.

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Or do what I do; lie about your roll result.

My loot list is near the lower corner of my screen and I miss it every now and then. I don't do so intentionally.

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Originally Posted by Derceto

Did you just start playing last week? Who hasn't seen identical numbers rolled on items? Or.... maybe you just don't pay attention.

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This isn't too different than the Identical Birthday paradox.
For N people rolling out of 99 possibilities, the chance of seeing at least two identical rolls would be
P=1 - 100! / [100^N * (100-N)!]

If identical rolls were possible, the chance of seeing an identical roll with four people is about 6%.
With eight people, the chance becomes roughly 25%.
With 24, the chance of seeing at least one identical roll becomes a whopping 95%.

We should be seeing this happen all the time if it were possible.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I tan out and be productive for 5 minutes or so.
Maybe refill my coffee... Catch up on an anime....

I might need to redefine "productive" but if someone wants a wait-off, I've got all day baby.

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I do the same thing. If I notice theres a squatter i sit my butt down and get out my 3ds. I aint missing out on that Chest Token from M4.

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Originally Posted by Pells

This isn't too different than the Identical Birthday paradox.
For N people rolling out of 99 possibilities, the chance of seeing at least two identical rolls would be
P= 100! / [100^N * (100-N)!]

If identical rolls were possible, the chance of seeing an identical roll with four people is about 6%.
With eight people, the chance becomes roughly 25%.
With 24, the chance of seeing at least one identical roll becomes a whopping 95%.

We should be seeing this happen all the time if it were possible.

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your maths is flawed, firstly you're not factoring the difference between need/ greed rolls, or folks that pass on loot.

also the likelyhood of 2 people rolling an identical number between 1-99 equates to 1.01% multiplied by (n-1) where n equals the number of people rolling. so in a party of 4 there's a 3.03% chance 2 people would roll the same number.. thus in a 24 man roll assuming all 24 hit need, there's a 23.23% chance 2 people will have an identical roll.

another way to look at it. is if 23 people have need rolled on an item, void ark minion for example then at most 23 of the numbers between 1 and 99 have already been rolled, thus the 24th person to roll has a 23/99 chance as rolling an identical number to someone else and a 76/99 chance that his number won't match anyone elses

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Originally Posted by Dzian

your maths is flawed, firstly you're not factoring the difference between need/ greed rolls, or folks that pass on loot.

also the likelyhood of 2 people rolling an identical number between 1-99 equates to 1.01% multiplied by (n-1) where n equals the number of people rolling. so in a party of 4 there's a 3.03% chance 2 people would roll the same number.. thus in a 24 man roll assuming all 24 hit need, there's a 23.23% chance 2 people will have an identical roll.

another way to look at it. is if 23 people have need rolled on an item, void ark minion for example then at most 23 of the numbers between 1 and 99 have already been rolled, thus the 24th person to roll has a 23/99 chance as rolling an identical number to someone else and a 76/99 chance that his number won't match anyone elses

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Yes, to get twenty four rolls, you would need all twenty four people to roll. Need/Greed/Pass would lower the chances.
But even at 8 rolls, the chance is 25%. You'd be seeing it at least twice a week if all you did were to join a pony farm instance once or twice a day. Unless people are joining farming parties and passing on loot...

The math also isn't flawed. What you did above would also need to be multiplied by all the possible permutations of two identical rolls out of twenty four. That is, they could have rolled first and second, or first and third, or first and fourth, or nineteenth and sixth.... etc.
Further multiplied by the possibility that more than two people could have identical rolls. Three people rolling the same number, or four, or five.... Or two people rolling one identical number and two other people rolling a different identical number. And so on.
But yes, I got the formula wrong; I forgot to subtract from 1. The formula I gave was for the chance of nobody getting identical rolls, which is a lot simpler to calculate. I'll have to edit it.

The chance of seeing no duplicate rolls for twenty four people, all rolling out of 99 on the same item, is about 5%. Assuming identical rolls are possible.
This would be (99/99)(98/99)(97/99)...(78/99)(77/99)(76/99).

This means that the opposite condition, any number of duplicate rolls, would have a 95% chance of occurring.

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Originally Posted by Pells

This means that the opposite condition, any number of duplicate rolls, would have a 95% chance of occurring.

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Your maths is still flawed.
For simplicity lets assume person 1 rolls 1
Person 2 rolls 2. Person 3 rolls 3 etc etc
Up to person 23 rolling 23.

What you're saying is basically that the 24th person to roll has a huge 95% chance of rolling a number between 1 and 23. And thus seeing a double roll.
Yet only a 5% chance of rolling any number between 24 and 99. Which in no way adds up.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I never do it on Alexander, but I tend to never loot after the Void Ark's second boss, so people can't leave after getting their lot and if we're fast enough we start the next boss with the loot pool at 30 secs aprox, then when we engage I loot, but they can't leave because we're in combat.

I hate early leavers >_>

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I believe this would qualify as harassment even if you can't prove it in-game. Terrible.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I never do it on Alexander, but I tend to never loot after the Void Ark's second boss, so people can't leave after getting their lot and if we're fast enough we start the next boss with the loot pool at 30 secs aprox, then when we engage I loot, but they can't leave because we're in combat.

I hate early leavers >_>

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I believe this would qualify as harassment even if you can't prove it in-game. Terrible.

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The restriction is on kicking players with a loot roll up or while in combat. Anybody who wants to leave still can: either without that loot roll, or by waiting 30 seconds into combat for the roll and then just dropping mid-combat.

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Originally Posted by Pells

The restriction is on kicking players with a loot roll up or while in combat. Anybody who wants to leave still can: either without that loot roll, or by waiting 30 seconds into combat for the roll and then just dropping mid-combat.

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You can't be kicked or drop party yourself while your party's in combat or while loot is waiting to be rolled on.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

You can't be kicked or drop party yourself while your party's in combat or while loot is waiting to be rolled on.

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Alt+F4. I still got my loot and can then still do other things after getting my loot. That solution still ain't foolproof.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Alt+F4. I still got my loot and can then still do other things after getting my loot. That solution still ain't foolproof.

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True, you can disconnect. The person I quoted was saying you could simply drop, which you can't.

I've had BRD doing it in VA 3 days ago just so he could be lazy and not be kicked for it.

Im a healer so i spend my time watching the party and on the 1st boss, noticed one Bard was not DPSing at all but rather was just jumping around or afk.
Every time i was going closer to him, he was running away and using one bloodletter just so he thought i wouldn't notice anything.
The worst part is that i eventually told the group and they noticed it aswell during the 2nd boss but we had no way we could kick him.

He was staying next to where the chests appears so loot was always up before we could attempt a kick and he never rolled on anything.
I stopped healing him for the rest of the run hoping he would die before grabbing the next chest.
Unfortunately the other WHM kept healing him despite having the party telling him not to.

I hate those kind of people.

Greetings,

Thanks for the various comments regarding the lotting system.

The current lotting system's time limit has been set to 300 seconds for a couple of reasons. This is to accommodate players so that they can enjoy watching cutscenes, have enough time to sort their inventory to make sure they have room for the item, and to secure enough time in case a player gets disconnected.

With that said, however, we have sent over your comments regarding the pros and cons for this time to the dev. team. We appreciate if you could please continue to submit any feedback you may have regarding this matter.

It's a few minutes wait, it's not a big deal. Mountains out of molehills. I roll as soon as I notice it pops up but if someone wants to try and wait it out I couldn't care less because there is already a limited amount of time they can wait and I am more than happy to sit there chatting to my FC about other things or making a cup of tea or coffee while the timer runs down if it is something important to me. I have also been on the other end of it where I dc'd after downing a boss, only just making it back in time before the current timer ran out so I could even roll at all. The timer exists for a very good reason, it is not an extreme amount of time and if something is important to you then have some patience.

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Greetings,

Thanks for the various comments regarding the lotting system.

The current lotting system's time limit has been set to 300 seconds for a couple of reasons. This is to accommodate players so that they can enjoy watching cutscenes, have enough time to sort their inventory to make sure they have room for the item, and to secure enough time in case a player gets disconnected.

With that said, however, we have sent over your comments regarding the pros and cons for this time to the dev. team. We appreciate if you could please continue to submit any feedback you may have regarding this matter.

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If you intend to give players time to sort their inventory before looting, are there any plans to fix the issue where all but one party member leave at the end of a duty and the last person can lose the item(s) if their inventory is full?

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Greetings,

Thanks for the various comments regarding the lotting system.

The current lotting system's time limit has been set to 300 seconds for a couple of reasons. This is to accommodate players so that they can enjoy watching cutscenes, have enough time to sort their inventory to make sure they have room for the item, and to secure enough time in case a player gets disconnected.

With that said, however, we have sent over your comments regarding the pros and cons for this time to the dev. team. We appreciate if you could please continue to submit any feedback you may have regarding this matter.

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I think cutting the time limit in half is a good compromise. As of now, Heavensward doesn't really have cut scenes during dungeons, but 150 seconds is a good time limit overall since I think it would fit the criteria you listed, which mostly matches A Realm Reborn, and still give people some time.

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Roll-squatters, Loot Time Limits and those who never roll.

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One of the reasons I leveled up crafting. If I can already make my own HQ gear, people like this bother me a lot less. Self-sufficiency :cool:

I only have PLD, DRK, WHM, BRD, NIN, and DRG to Lv60. Since those jobs have their share of Proto Midan gear, the loot-waiters don't bother me anything. Since I have no intention of getting another job to Lv60, I just hit NEED on everything and just wait until I get something or I don't; I mainly do Midas for the music, combat, and because I spam content anyway.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I think cutting the time limit in half is a good compromise. As of now, Heavensward doesn't really have cut scenes during dungeons, but 150 seconds is a good time limit overall since I think it would fit the criteria you listed, which mostly matches A Realm Reborn, and still give people some time.

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What I think they should do is, if people take longer than, say, 30 to 45 seconds to NEED, GREED, PASS all items in the table when we're out of combat phase, those people should have PASS defaulted on them for the item they did NOT roll on.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

What I think they should do is, if people take longer than, say, 30 to 45 seconds to NEED, GREED, PASS all items in the table when we're out of combat phase, those people should have PASS defaulted on them for the item they did NOT roll on.

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60 to 80 seconds would be a better number, especially if groups are trying to decide who wants what.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

60 to 80 seconds would be a better number, especially if groups are trying to decide who wants what.

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At that point the timer itself may as well just be 80 seconds. It's really a weak idea. XD

I'll simetimes wait to lot on some items if I'm aggressively pursuing one item. There's been a number of times where one of two things happen:

We hit a deadlock, where myself/others wait on A and B to pass, while they wait on C. I at least have the decency to say it (most people stay quiet lol)
Nothing

Now, keep in mind - I pass the items I'm not interested in. Im not trying to double dip on lots.

Seriously? People suggesting dropping to 30, 45, 80 or 150 seconds? It takes longer than that to log back in if disconnect through no fault of your own. I know for a fact as it has happened to me in the past. Stop being so impatient, you do not get locked out of the rolls by waiting but the timer itself locks other people out if do not roll in time so any change to it cannot be some knee-jerk reaction due to the dramatization of the issue.

I can imagine SE (maybe) reducing the timer by 30 or 60 seconds but some of the suggestions in here are ridiculous. Like I said there is a good reason it is longer than a couple minutes currently because it can take that long to get back in to roll on it, why is it so hard for some of you to wait a mere few minutes out of your lives if it is something you really want loot wise when just spent probably 30 minutes or more running the place with the people you want to screw over and lock out of the roll? If it gets reduced it cannot be reduced by a large amount.

Sure some people might care more about the loot than you and want to see if other people care enough to wait for few minutes even if I am not one of them but some of you are coming across to me as bigger jerks than the people your whining about in my opinion. There is a time limit, it is a reasonable one and it exists for a damn good reason. While it is possible for SE to reduce it slightly, some of the suggestions in here are way off the mark...

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

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If the gear is something I can use right then and there, I think it's not inconsiderate to ask others to roll right away so I can use the gear in that same run (assuming I can roll as Need), which also means I can improve my output for the party. You're coming off as pretty hostile towards the people making suggestions to improve the lot timer; no one here is complaining about how their speed run is ruined because of a slow roller. If everyone else already rolled and we have the one person who is not rolling for whatever reason, that person is just as inconsiderate as the people that want everything done in half time.

If you are that worried about being screwed over because you disconnected, well maybe you should look into your connection if that's a big issue. I got screwed over in many runs where I DC'd and returned to see that I was kicked out. That's just life and it's not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You're coming off as pretty hostile towards the people making suggestions to improve the lot timer; no one here is complaining about how their speed run is ruined because of a slow roller. If everyone else already rolled and we have the one person who is not rolling for whatever reason, that person is just as inconsiderate as the people that want everything done in half time.

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If I am coming across as hostile it might be because some of the suggestions are seriously bad.

It would have to remain more than a couple minutes minimum for good reason, reasons that SE already acknowledged when they decided on the timer. Watching cinematic's was just one of the reasons but having experienced DC'ing and trying to get back in before timer ran out myself, the time is not far off what it needs to be. I am not the type of person who makes people wait to see if they care more about an item of loot than myself but even I think some of the suggestions in here are ridiculous and way too drastic. Reducing by thirty seconds, fine. Reducing by even a minute might be okay but reducing it by around four or four and a half minutes down to thirty seconds or even eighty seconds? You can't be serious...

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I got screwed over in many runs where I DC'd and returned to see that I was kicked out. That's just life and it's not a big deal.

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So your solution is to screw over other people despite claiming you were screwed over yourself? That attitude annoys me, two wrongs do not make a right. You wait a few minutes for a person to roll? I could also do as you did and say "That's also just life and it's not a big deal" yet here we are in a thread which is making a big deal out of it. The attitude of some here reminds me of the type of people who would vote kick people to increase their chances of getting the loot only in this case merely kicking them to get it slightly sooner, it's the same lack of patience and lack of decency. You brought up the topic of speed runs which I never mentioned but the same attitude and lack of patience or decency is often involved there.

So what if someone doesn't roll right away? Whoop de do...it isn't like you wont get it before leave even if you have to wait few extra minutes but any dropping of the timer will lock many more people out while their action of waiting for the timer to go down (which is not that extreme) does not lock you out of the loot at all. Patience is treated like a disease by some here instead of a virtue, it's not hard to wait a few minutes for someone to roll especially if you want it as much as they do. Your not losing out on getting it unless you choose to leave without waiting a few minutes in which case you don't appear to care that much about the loot in the first place if do so.

I dunno. I think the current timer is easy enough to deal with as is, personally.

To be honest, I do this aswell on stuff that I realy want. I reckon if someone is not willing to wait 5 minutes, then they probably dont realy need this item. Call it a psychological warfare, first one to cave loses.

look i sometime do roll on loot i sometime just pass on loot. if loot i interest i roll on if loot that, sometime I used just roll stuff for my off jobs or main jobs as way control not get my inventory or armory chest fill up

9 times out of 10 on gampepad if im tanking or even in a group thats rolling through trash and bosses i dont stop and loot or else the next battle begins, i did once, tanking some stone vigil have a healer let me die cause i was trailblazing and wasnt reading chat tanking. Just hard to find any stops just to roll on loot if the party is good, fast, or impatient, esp the low level dungeons when you dont get that "one or more members is new message"