Please do something about Living Dead

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Originally Posted by Pibz

This is all to say it puts too much extra pressure on the healer when they usually already have to deal with the most workload out of all roles, and all this has now been exacerbated due to the Vitality changes which just require further healing to makes sure the Dark Knight survives..

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I want to believe that Living Dead was designed with Dark Knights wearing full VIT gear as the standard, so maybe the change wont be as bad as it sounds once it finally hits?

I have an i190 something scholar. Emergency tactics has a 30 second cooldown. So ridiculously short for a job that already has no mana problems I'm surprised its never been nerfed. Etactics+Adlo I can heal about 6k HP, during the same amount of time, my Eos/Selene will heal for roughly 1.5k. Immediately after that, I can pop one single aether stack for another 6k HP. In one single 2.5 second GCD, I've healed more than 50 percent of the argued,"debilitating" hp ceiling of 20k. If my Etatics adlo crits, that 6k turns into 12k i believe (4k on first adlo proc and then double that on the galvanize). So not only is in Not A Problem if i'm the only healer around, in trial/raid environment darks can get healed for their full hp mere seconds after going zombie mode. Healing is E.Z and OP is a troll

Living Dead is perfectly fine, serves its purpose.

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Originally Posted by Jeibird

Healing is E.Z and OP is a troll

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Missed the point completely. Please tell me how you need to spend 21k worth, + whatever it's going to be in the future, of heals when the other tanks use their Invulnerability Cooldown, yeah..

Good job going completely around the discussion and then calling me a troll (the irony tho)..

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Originally Posted by Shyngo

Living Dead is perfectly fine, serves its purpose.

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Yeah, "It's not complete trash so why fix it" has always been a good design philosophy. /s

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I think that's a pretty fair way to look at it - that Dark Knight is the only class that lacks synergy with its own CD.

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This what i said throughout the whole posts i've done here. It requires too much from outside sources compared to the other ones. I've yet to see anyone deny this while instead all i see is: It's not impossible to deal with it so it doesn't need any adjustment (i can't even).
That is an issue with living dead tho, and it's easily fixable and a lot of proposed things in this thread by various people would work and it wouldn't affect anything related to balance other than the usability of the ability.

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Originally Posted by Reila_Circus

I think the ability is alright, and I've been maining DRK since Heavensward launched. In a raid situation, your Healers should be on the look out during a Tank buster, and if your going through DF on a dunjin or something then you really shouldn't even need to use it.

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Well you don't really need to use Hallowed/holmgang 99.9999% of the times people use it but it often makes things easier, Living Dead outside of very specific situations is often a complete hassle. All i want to see is that it gets adjusted so that i don't feel like i can't trust 90% of the healers to handle it properly.

Personally any situation you would use Living Dead a Benediction or ultimate healing spell would do just the trick instead. Only time I would see a need for LD is if a mechanic made LD a necessity where you either use this ability or you will die. And not simply a "Well I don't have anything else to use right now".

I have been reading all the post here, and ofc its mainly personal preference where some people say it is good as it is (Living Dead) and othesr are happy about it.


I personal dont Main DRK but i do play him and my personal opinion is simply that "Living Dead" is, when used correctly, a very useful ability and it is no where near that hard to get rid of the "walking dead" status if Both healers are aware of how this ability works. Our MT in my Static plays DRK and even he said that there is nothing wrong with it.(All of the DRK skills appear to be out of place but they are not.This is about understanding, how the class works,if everthing would be the same this game would be dead the moment it got released.)

Example: Tank buster about to hit- "Living Dead" active- Boss ist about to hit with the Tank buster but the entire time both healers could focus on healign someone else or dps the boss

"Tank Buster" hits- "Walking Dead" status- together with the pre Active LD Healers have like 15-18 second where they dont need to throw a single heal on to the MT.

"Walking Dead" at 3-5 seconds.. Benediction/clutch heals.. Status gone .. simple..Done and all good

If u use it wisely it is easy as pie. but as i said that is my own personal opinion.

just because someone has a differnt opinion over a certain skill does not mean that that person is wrong or anythign worse. Acting Hostile against that person does not help at all.

And as stupid is it sounds @Pebz: Your hostility makes u appear as a troll or simply someone who refuses to learn or to understand others Opinions. Call me an idiot if u want to but the way you are acting here in this Thread ( At first u agree with someone, then u dont, then again, then with no one what the hell?!) just shows me that im right with my thoughts.

Pick your words wisely or it will bite you back in the future

(apology for my grammar etc . english is not my main language)

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Missed the point completely. Please tell me how you need to spend 21k worth, + whatever it's going to be in the future, of heals when the other tanks use their Invulnerability Cooldown, yeah..

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hyperbolic response: if a tank buster deals 500k damage, and a DRK uses LD, Jeibird only needs to heal for 20k, and LD mitigates 480k of damage, in this scenario, the only difference between LD and holmgang in regards to pure mitigation is 1HP of damage (the tradeoffs being that holmgang binds you, and LD needs to be healed).

I never use this risky skill in partys o_o;;
(I could use it "wrong" + people get angry at me = No thanks! <,<; )

So its my special gag in PVP

If people got my attention and want to chase me:
I start to running away(as always!) and pop all my skills to redeuce dmg as :p ..and hope they run after me, so there team is separated.

Then I use Living dead(Im still running away lol xD) and they throw every atk they have on me to take my last 1HP xD

Hit'n'Run! ;o

Ugh... Now the complaints about DRKs are starting. Good grief!

*EDIT*
So, are you saying that 10 seconds isn't enough for a healer (or two) to fully heal a VIT DRK with Living Dead active?

Come new iLv cap comes more VIT (HP) for tanks. At the same time, higher iLv cap means more MND (healing potency) for the healer.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

So, are you saying that 10 seconds isn't enough for a healer (or two) to fully heal a VIT DRK with Living Dead active?

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I do think that Living Dead alone, as a skill, is perfectly fine. Their complaint is the reliance upon healers to handle the mechanic - that they can't really do much to contribute (outside about 4k~ healing) towards living when they have to use. Basically, you're completely the subject of your healer and can't do much to help them break the status ailment off you.

I can accept this as a factor, because if you put Living Dead on Warrior, we'd mitigate it by having Equilibrium + second wind or mantra and have about 10k hp healed in the current meta (Might be less with the next one.)

They're not overly clear on their point, but it is a fair point - the skill 'living dead' lacks synergy within the job.

OP, think twice before you post something.

LD makes you invulnerable for 10 - 20 sec.
Holmgang for 6 sec.
Holy Ground for 10 sec.

War has the worst of the "oh shit CDs"

Another issue is Hallowed Ground provides flat Invincibility(not to mention Paladins have Clemency now if they need to use it), Holmgang can lock a target/stop knockback and the Warrior can pop their self heals and then possibly be fine.

With Living Dead however once Walking Dead procs the Dark Knight has no way to sustain itself without the aid of a healer. Yeah we can try and go in Grit and DASE but the Dark Knight will never be able to cap his total HP.

There is just a lot of risk involved with the Dark Knight's Ultimate Cooldown and very little to gain from it other then surviving the big one and either living thanks to the healer or just delaying your death by 10 seconds.

And in other games when the Dark Knight casted Doom on themselves their defenses and attack parameters were massively increased. If it's the ultimate cooldown we should be getting massive returns through Soul Eater during Walking Dead.

I wouldn't mind 0 MP cost during Walking Dead and doubled Potency on all Dark Arts enhanced skills for the sole purpose of capping HP without a healer.

DRKs not having much self-heal for single target is part of the reason why LD is so risky, I guess-- you have to rely on your healer(s) completely. I can understand people's problems with it if they play with healers they don't trust... but I don't think that's a big enough issue to warrant changing how the skill works, even once tanks have to switch to full vit. If you're using it as a cd for a tankbuster in raid, then your healers should already be healing you up accordingly for it. In dungeons... well if you need to pop it, you either overestimated your healer, or you grabbed more mobs than you (or your group) can handle.

LD leaves more than enough time for even a single healer to top them off with minimal cooldowns. I personally think holmgang is far scarier as a "Oh shit I have literally nothing left" cooldown because you have to get them up now or they're going to die a shameful death from an auto-attack.

So only use LD if you overzealously pull, your healer is AFK, you raid in high level content, are well coordinated with your healer, or you play PvP. Got it.

Living Dead is pretty much fine. It's probably a little awkward if you have a new healer who doesn't know how it works, but in any situation where you'd be using it, they will likely be spamming heals on you anyway. I use it fairly regularly in DF as a sort of insurance button if I'm doing a pull I'm not 100% sure the healer can handle—but I do that proactively, at the start of a pull. What it does is provide up to 20 seconds where I know I won't die even if the healer lags behind a little, which lets them get acclimated to the incoming damage and such.

Overall I much prefer it to Holmgang, as being locked in place can be quite problematic in dungeons, where I do just about all of my tanking.

There's no argument that Hallowed Ground is vastly superior to both of them, but that's also why its cooldown is so much longer.

If we're gonna fix something about DRK why don't we fix something that is actually wrong with the job, like the fact that SE has done nothing about their utter lack of unique party-based raid utility while OTing? With the buffs to PLD DRKs are going to have to fight tooth and nail for the only raid-slot to which they are suited: MT.

I think Living Dead needs a change too. Never really been impressed by it, too much of a niche skill for my liking. If it just inflicted the Zombie status right away upon activation (instead of having to proc it) with some type of boost to Soul Eater while active then it might be more interesting.

Just slap a healing boost onto the walking dead status itself, not the red icon before you die but the grey icon. Figure out what % is appropriate, call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Just slap a healing boost onto the walking dead status itself, not the red icon before you die but the grey icon. Figure out what % is appropriate, call it a day.

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I'd be happy with Convalescence applying to Soul Eater for stronger self heals to mitigate the drain of Living Dead. But it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

OP, think twice before you post something.

LD makes you invulnerable for 10 - 20 sec.
Holmgang for 6 sec.
Holy Ground for 10 sec.

War has the worst of the "oh shit CDs"

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That's not true.
Warriors ability, after full activation, doesn't kill the warrior. And Warrior has a real means of restoring their HP.
Dark Knight does not. And after activation of walking dead, the Dark Knight has no means of self-recovery.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I'd be happy with Convalescence applying to Soul Eater for stronger self heals to mitigate the drain of Living Dead. But it doesn't.

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That's a clunky fix and still wouldn't make a big difference. What I'm suggesting, is if DRK is going to have 5-20% more HP in most cases, adjust the walking dead status half of living dead to compensate for it. You couldn't get a simpler solution that doesn't exactly remedy the "problem" that this change is bringing.

edit: so a 210 drk in fending is 30% higher hp than a 210 drk in slaying. Maybe 30% healing boost in walking dead would be too much, but any boost they give it would be a help. I'm sure if they went with 10 or 15% people wouldn't complain it's not enough, basically go halfway.

Living dead is definitely the worst of all the 'ultimate' CD's imo. Sure you could just use bene, but it's such a waste of an awesome CD just because LD sucks balls. Generally i'm forced to precast C2 tetra C2 again while regen is ticking as well. Its really quite annoying and requires much more work than Holmgang. Tetra regen cleric, then war could pop equilibrium for good measure. LD on the other hand forces you to not only waste more time healing, but also potentially lose an opportunity to DPS.
Example, A3S, the first hand swipe. With Hallowed i could simply dps that entire time. Living dead? Nope, not happening. Sure drk does more dps than pld but, with the new buffs perhaps people will see how obsolete drk is in comparison, or at least LD.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

That's not true.
Warriors ability, after full activation, doesn't kill the warrior. And Warrior has a real means of restoring their HP.
Dark Knight does not. And after activation of walking dead, the Dark Knight has no means of self-recovery.

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And you need an actual target to activate Holmgang =)

With HG, I know Paladins who use it when doing large pulls, while still on the move (others use it just as they come to a stop at the end of the pull and let the mob of mobs catch up to them). Theoretically you could do the same with LD, though it'd certainly be riskier due to healer aggro -- but I haven't really levelled DRK yet, so I don't know how possible/impossible it would be. Holmgang can't (obviously) be used on the move, and even when you stop, it only lasts for 6 seconds and you're still losing HP (just not below 1HP).

The only drawback I see with HG is the longer cooldown. Which is fine, I guess.

Drawbacks with Holmgang: shorter duration, bound in place (can't even turn around, which sucks if there are mobs behind you), hp keeps dropping during those 6s -- just not below 1hp, needs a close-range enemy target to execute.

Drawbacks with LD: dependency on healers due to no reliable self-heals (which isn't really a drawback with LD in itself, but more a lack of synergy with DRK's utility, IMO), must be healed for full amount of HP during 10s or death occurs. If healed too much before zombiemode occurs, benefit is lost.

All three, as far as I know, have a slight delay in actual activation, though that might be more relevant for HG? Since LD seems to be a pre-cast "waiting" buff that only goes critical when you reach 1hp? Haven't really noticed any issues with activation delay with Holmgang, but on the other hand I haven't needed to use it that often (not a progression raider, so by the time I do the raids, they tend to be nerfed and echoed).

Like I said, I haven't had time to level DRK yet (though I intend to), nor do I really play PLD after I switched to WAR, so my comprehension of these skills is very biased. I admit that. I might very well have missed something with HG or LD, or misunderstood stuff. But even looking at this, it seems fairly obvious that both Holmgang and LD suffer several drawbacks compared to HG, and if WAR hadn't had so many self-heals, it'd have the exact same dependency on healers as DRK does. Though... from what I remember, Holmgang was even worse during 2.0, when they tried to combine three different skills into one. Hallowed, Tempered Will and... I forget what the last one was, tbh, since I didn't pick up WAR until later.

I'm not saying Holmgang and LD aren't useful in their current state, but I think that there's a lot that could be done with both of them to remove or at least mitigate some of their drawbacks.

The only fix that Living Dead needed was alredy applied(which was walking Dead not dispelling at Benediction Cast). Warrior needs to have a target to Holmgang, Hallowed Ground has a Huge CD. Please stop complaining and quoting every single person trying to prove your ideal on "how it was supposed to be" would be better. Living Dead is OK.



Tyvm. =D.

Moving on.