I think the reason why everyone is freaking out is...

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Originally Posted by MrLion

"Why are the fanboys paying for a game that is 50% done? Yoshi-P said it was 50% done so he must charge 50% of the fees"

You're dead wrong...He said that by the time 1.19 comes out the game will be 50% done to "Launch Expectations" and that 1.20 will be near 100%, which means that when 1.20 (which is when the billing cycle starts), the game is at "launching condition", therefore the fees are fine how they are going by that logic.

I will add more as I wander around the forum...any thoughts? Comments? Negativity?

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Where did he ever say 1.20 would be 100%?

MOAR SAUCE PL0x (Source please :D?)

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Originally Posted by Heat

i didnt want to pay at first, but when i felt that they might stop FFXIV, i decided to pay, and that's the only reason.

you dont pay for something that is going to happen in the future, its like buying fish in the sea, you pay for what you see and like.

upcoming patches could be canceled or you might dislike them.

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How many expansion packs have you bought sight unseen?

Another fanboy topic trying to convice people to play.
/facepalm

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Where did he ever say 1.20 would be 100%?

MOAR SAUCE PL0x (Source please :D?)

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"Near 100%" he said not Will be 100% there's a difference, 1.20= 90% which equals out to "Launch Worthy" to me. 1.21= 100%+ 1.22~ 1.23= Goes off the charts.

In the beginning, they needed to take a few months to get Familiar with the Coding, the game itself, and what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy. So with those 3 months they could only do like 5% of the "FF feel" everyone is looking for the more Familiar they got with the Project , the more they could project into this game.

Why do you think now Were going to see alot of Content between now and 2.0? It's because they know what they are doing now and at this point All the Basic Features such as PC Search, AH Functions ( Price History of last 20), Linkshell Features ( as they said this was there next top priority, also on the time line it shows they are done and ready to implement it.) and so many more, also looks like Parley is going to be a mini-game of sorts. All of that equals out to 40% of the "Launched game itself" Prior to that he said that 50% of the "FF Feel" is completed not the actual game itself. so really.. 50%+40%= 90%

We are so close to "Launching Conditions" you mine as well start now right? because in 1.21 we will be Beyond the 100% mark. and when 2.0 comes around it will be off the grid.

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Originally Posted by December

yes but you were defending the 100% remark, by saying most of its flaws will be fixed in 1.20. But thats not true, yea some flaws are going to be fixed in 1.20 but not the big flaws that make the game nearly unplayable...

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I have been playing the game just fine for over a year.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Another fanboy topic trying to convice people to play.
/facepalm

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Nobody is trying to convince you to do anything. Please stay or go at your preference.

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Originally Posted by Korbei

Do you know what pisses me off? The fact that I know my PC won't run the game as depicted by the concept screenshot. I built my PC last year to the recommended specs provided for the game (and it runs 'okay' at best). Now it looks like I'll have to build another one in 2013. Regardless of monthly fees, there's no way this game is worth that kind of investment twice. My gf plays the game on her laptop in pretty much rock-bottom settings. There's no way she'll be able to continue.


The least they can do is tell us what kind of hardware they're building the game on to give us an idea whether or not we stand any chance of continuing post 2.0.

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I believe that they said in the "The New Road to Final Fantasy XIV" that the new Graphics engine will be customizable to accomidate a larger PC Enviorment. Sounds to me like they are trying to make it easier for lower end PCs to handle the game.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Another fanboy topic trying to convice people to play.
/facepalm

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What is a fanboy?

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Originally Posted by Rizon

I believe that they said in the "The New Road to Final Fantasy XIV" that the new Graphics engine will be customizable to accomidate a larger PC Enviorment. Sounds to me like they are trying to make it easier for lower end PCs to handle the game.

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Yes. If your PC is not at a ps3's level then you may need a new PC. New engine will have more settings so you can make it run on lower end PC's so you don't need to worry. If you can run it now you will be fine then.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

"Near 100%" he said not Will be 100% there's a difference, 1.20= 90% which equals out to "Launch Worthy" to me. 1.21= 100%+ 1.22~ 1.23= Goes off the charts.

In the beginning, they needed to take a few months to get Familiar with the Coding, the game itself, and what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy. So with those 3 months they could only do like 5% of the "FF feel" everyone is looking for the more Familiar they got with the Project , the more they could project into this game.

Why do you think now Were going to see alot of Content between now and 2.0? It's because they know what they are doing now and at this point All the Basic Features such as PC Search, AH Functions ( Price History of last 20), Linkshell Features ( as they said this was there next top priority, also on the time line it shows they are done and ready to implement it.) and so many more, also looks like Parley is going to be a mini-game of sorts. All of that equals out to 40% of the "Launched game itself" Prior to that he said that 50% of the "FF Feel" is completed not the actual game itself. so really.. 50%+40%= 90%

We are so close to "Launching Conditions" you mine as well start now right? because in 1.21 we will be Beyond the 100% mark. and when 2.0 comes around it will be off the grid.

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Short answer: No. No-one ever said @1.20 would be 100%

Did you even read my post? Whatever man... I'm staying away from these forums... too many fools, not enough Reinheart.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Yes. If your PC is not at a ps3's level then you may need a new PC. New engine will have more settings so you can make it run on lower end PC's so you don't need to worry. If you can run it now you will be fine then.

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For clarrification. When this game first came out I bought an off the shelf Gateway FX6820. Its specs did not quite match the stated requirements but I have had no problems playing the game since launch. All I was saying is that the information tyhat SE has provided that SE provided implies that there should be no need to upgrade your current hardware to accomidate the new engine and the PC somewhat below this can be used.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Short answer: No. No-one ever said @1.20 would be 100%

Did you even read my post? Whatever man... I'm staying away from these forums... too many fools, not enough Reinheart.

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Have fun in the Abyss /wave

Edit:

Also, I did read your Post, You wanted a source. I gave you that source " yes its mixed in with my personal opinion" However all those basic Functions ARE what make 50% of the game.. and thats what most people COMPLAINED about, was the basic features.. People were spoiled for a year so they only want to be spoiled more.

Sorry the cake just came out of the oven bad for you, but you need to realize this isn't a F2P game, it never was nor it ever will be.

The time is now for you to decide weather or not you pay for the game or not on your own " Personal Standards of what a 100% complete MMO" is, because I tell you right now no MMO is 100% even after 10 years its still not 100% complete. ( MMO= Personal Standards of what a "Complete game" feels like)

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Have fun in the Abyss /wave

Edit:

Also, I did read your Post, You wanted a source. I gave you that source " yes its mixed in with my personal opinion" However all those basic Functions ARE what make 50% of the game.. and thats what most people COMPLAINED about, was the basic features.. People were spoiled for a year so they only want to be spoiled more.

Sorry the cake just came out of the oven bad for you, but you need to realize this isn't a F2P game, it never was nor it ever will be.

The time is now for you to decide weather or not you pay for the game or not on your own " Personal Standards of what a 100% complete MMO" is, because I tell you right now no MMO is 100% even after 10 years its still not 100% complete. ( MMO= Personal Standards of what a "Complete game" feels like)

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In the abyss, huh? No, I'll be playing the game.
F2P? I will be one of the ones who WILL be paying. No matter what.

inb4: Fanboy. -> I loved FFXI, and I can see the steps the team are taking to make XIV rival XI, and XIV2.0 is going to rock.

Peace out Forums.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

In the abyss, huh? No, I'll be playing the game.
F2P? I will be one of the ones who WILL be paying. No matter what.

inb4: Fanboy. -> I loved FFXI, and I can see the steps the team are taking to make XIV rival XI, and XIV2.0 is going to rock.

Peace out Forums.

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That's what I like to hear, even though I'm not on the same servers as you, I wish you and everyone else the best... before Meteor Comes...

Twelve Speed be with you all =)

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

In the abyss, huh? No, I'll be playing the game.
F2P? I will be one of the ones who WILL be paying. No matter what.

inb4: Fanboy. -> I loved FFXI, and I can see the steps the team are taking to make XIV rival XI, and XIV2.0 is going to rock.

Peace out Forums.

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Hey Fore, what's up?!

I think Starlord just doesn't know what the word "source" means.

What we're looking for here is a reference, that backs up your interpretations of this near 100% for 1.20 deal.

Like, in which PDF? Which page, or is it one of the letters? If so, which paragraph, what quote?

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Originally Posted by Kyou_Ruxy

Hey Fore, what's up?!

I think Starlord just doesn't know what the word "source" means.

What we're looking for here is a reference, that backs up your interpretations of this near 100% for 1.20 deal.

Like, in which PDF? Which page, or is it one of the letters? If so, which paragraph, what quote?

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I think ya'll are missing the point :P But, I'm done repeating myself a billion times to get Ultimately Nowhere.

Like I said: Its either you pay or you don't pay= Simple nothing else needs to be said ( I'm done beating a dead horse)

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I think ya'll are missing the point :P But, I'm done repeating myself a billion times to get Ultimately Nowhere.

Like I said: Its either you pay or you don't pay= Simple nothing else needs to be said ( I'm done beating a dead horse)

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I'm going to be paying/playing as well.

That's still not validating your point if you're speculating your arguments and presenting them as facts.

From the BG interview

Sonomaa (BG): Why are you deciding to charge now, when the game is only 50% to where you wanted it to be at launch? It seems awkward that we're going to be paying a subscription fee for a product that is only half complete and going to be completely new at a year's time.

Square-Enix: To clear a little up - the payment system will not be starting now, we just announced it now. We are planning on starting the payment system sometime in December, after patch 1.2. In 1.20, some of the major changes we will be making includes a more advanced player search and to get a market system as close to the Final Fantasy XI auction house as possible. This would be where you could search for an item, and then buy that item, or see the past 20 auctions. This will be before we start asking for payments.

The 50% number, during the Live Producer letter, came from where they were at before the release of 1.19. Once 1.2 is released, that will be even closer to the final vision of the current game. We want players to try 1.2 and see that our game is officially worth paying for, which is when the customers can decide if they want to pay for it or not.

And then from 1.2 to 2.0 we will continue to release content that you can only play at this time - realtime updates with realtime story that you can only experience NOW. If a player plays through 1.2 and decides if the game is not there yet, they can choose not to play or do the billing system. But we ask them to keep coming back to check what we're adding in 1.21 or 1.22 because there will be a lot of content that they will not be able to experience in any other MMO. We hope that by offering different things that they will come back.

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Originally Posted by Kyou_Ruxy

I'm going to be paying/playing as well.

That's still not validating your point if you're speculating your arguments and presenting them as facts.

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I never said they were facts I took Yoshi-p's Statement ( which is true 50% pre 1.19)= Fact
1.19 and 1.20= 40% ( my Opinion not fact)= Personal Opinion
Game= 90% Opinion

I never once said my Calculations were fact, not once.

Secondly, as I said before MMO= Personal Opinion on how a Game is Complete or not. It doesn't even matter if Yoshi-p Said its 100% or not. because there will be people who will feel the game isn't 100% and those that do.

It's all a Matter of an Opinion how how a MMO is Complete.

Also, A Console game that gets release. It Cannot be changed nor Altered. So therefore by right its a complete game right? But there are some people are going to say the game is crap. Therefore to them it's not a complete game ( to them).

I based my 90% solely on my Opinion and my Opinion alone, those that agree fine have a ball. but for those that don't Just respect my opinion as I respect yours.

Thank You

Edit:

Also The Basics of any system is half the battle aka 50%

and this sentence is fact also:

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The new server system is already up and running on internal development equipment, and we are in the process of finalizing general
search features, the party system, the friend system, and more. At the current pace, we hope to have all basic system features
completed by February 2012.

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By 1.21 all the Basic Systems Features will be Complete aka 14th page of the PDF Notes Feb 2012 being 1.21

The other 50% is Content and that content is Always Opinionated ( which I base my opinion off of)

to me and in my opinion :

1.21= FFXIV 100% (Opinion)

1.20= Launching Conditions ( Opinion)

Here is something else good to read....

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=28045

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Another fanboy topic trying to convice people to play.
/facepalm

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Umm no...I'm not convincing anyone to play it...I'm simply reading the roadmaps for you, which is what many people failed to do, as you can see nowadays in society, at least in the english-speaking countries, common sense has become a rarity.

Agree completely. $13 isn't bad and for the people riding on the "It's the concept, not the amount" wagon, boycotting isn't going to do anything good if you want to help for the future. It's everyone's choice to stay or go. If you want cookie cutter MMO with a few new features there are numerous other games.

Warning! Comparisons and Opinion to follow

Personally after seeing many MMO launches and continuing to play some I have the most hope for FFXIV.

Aion's launch for example, the first 3 months were terrible (and payed for). There wasn't much content, server outages, server rollbacks, almost no items and now 2 years later they have added only a handful of endgame instances, a "new" graphics engine which is a joke and completely broken the game by quadrupling drop rates. Their "content" patches were at 6-8 month intervals if even that vs. our 1-3 month intervals. What is NC Soft's development plan? Add more costumes and cosmetic garbage! Yay!

WoW cannot be used as a comparison for development because their budget dwarfs FFXIV. Not to mention they don't have to pay writers, modelers, animators, lighting artists or texture designers because it either doesn't exist or any 12 year old can do it in google sketchup ;)

SE on the other hand is not only overhauling it's entire world, adding content and fixing broken things over the next 11-13 months but at the end of that it's dropping in our laps a whole new redesigned game for no additional cost. The time and money going into this project deserves our paying support. 1.19 was great, golden no but still great and come 1.20 or 1.21 I truly think it will be at it's launch ready state.

So we will begin paying for a launch ready game when it is launch ready, then getting a new 2.0 version for free. How do people argue with that logic?

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Originally Posted by Synfrag

How do people argue with that logic?

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With illogical arguments. You've been reading these threads, right?

I didn't read further than the first page, but I still want to add that I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Especially with his answer to "Why pay for an incomplete game with no content till 2.0?".

There is tons of content already and there's going to be more with each patch, some of which is developed specifically for those of us who stay with the game pre 2.0. For me, that's more than enough to justify the full monthly fees.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

With illogical arguments. You've been reading these threads, right?

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Oh right... that!

I would pay for this game even if it was crap just as long as I enjoyed it.

If you enjoy the game then pay for it and if you don't like the game don't it's really that simple.

Please keep it to the topic...I don't care about who doesn't have common sense or who's dumb.

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Originally Posted by Zeroeffect

I would pay for this game even if it was crap just as long as I enjoyed it.

If you enjoy the game then pay for it and if you don't like the game don't it's really that simple.

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That's so simple and yet people either don't want to see that logic or just can't fathom that they could just walk away from this game.

OR, they could sign up for a paid account and if it turns out that paid PC accounts also get the 3 month free to play trial period like the PS3 people then they could just cancel the account before the 3 months are up if they really hate paying for a game.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Very well phrased post. Hopefully it will clear up a few things for some people.

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Just wanted to say that ^.
I agree with your post; and i Love Alerith's signature. XD

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Hey Feint. Allow me to illustrate this through an analogy which may assist you in understanding this a bit more.

FFXIV at launch was similar to a train wreck (literally). Tanaka was the conductor and he derailed the train. It's a huge mess and after a little bit of time (2-3 months for ffxiv) the company that owns the train (SE) put it back on the tracks and found a new conductor Yoshi-p. The development of FFXIV is similar to a train which starts up slowly, slowly, then builds momentum until it becomes an unstoppable force.

The new development team took over a project that wasn't theirs, they had no familiarity with the coding, database or any other project elements. It takes time to get familiar with these things in order to build something you are confident in. Give them a few months to 'get the feel' of how the old team designed the game, find there resources and be able to confidently understand what they need to do. Very few changes, small changes, come in this time... they are basically exploring the game (from a coding standpoint) and what they can do to make changes.

Eventually they become 'experts' in the design of the game and can make changes with greater speed and efficiency. Back to the train, it's now cooking up a lot of power and starting to move at near full speed.

So it's very possible in the first 6 months they only got 5% of the current "FFXIV feel", the following 2 months they could have manage another 10%, the next 2 another 15%, and the following another 20% - which brings us to the one year marker. Where they claimed it was 50%. Now however they are moving at full speed, have more resources assigned to the project and can slam through changes easily. Getting another 40% is fairly reasonable if you think about it like this, and again as it has been repeated 4 dozen times in this thread... they said CLOSE to 100%. I would consider 85-90+% "Close" to 100%.

Just remember that this project was foreign to the new dev team and they had to figure out everything inside and out. They have said a few times that the coding is very sloppy and complex. Working on a coding project that isn't your own and trying to figure out what others did takes time. They took the time in the beginning to figure things out, which was slow to start, the changes came slow, the learning curve was massive. People shouldn't be surprised that a year later things are being pumped out quicker than before. They should be able to make more impacting changes in the same time that it took to do small tweaks beforehand.

And so is the life of a developer..... this is why I changed majors :D


I hope this helps to alleviate some of your worries. :D

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That goes along what they have been saying. Well thought out reply, thanks :D I suppose I was surprised what that comment because of jobs not being here yet but then again it's not far away either.

Good support for this thread, but not enough to ensure that people understand what is going to happen to the world of Eorzea.

I reserve my judgments of the games "completion" till the patch actually drops. I do however refuse to pay for a game that I feel is not complete, so i don't care as to Yoshi's percentages he gave. There are too many good games all ready out and coming out for anyone to waste money and time, on a game they feel is half complete.

TL;DR
If YOU feel its incomplete don't pay for it... problem solved. The first portion of the billing cycle will speak volumes as to how "complete" the game really is, till then chill.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I reserve my judgments of the games "completion" till the patch actually drops. I do however refuse to pay for a game that I feel is not complete, so i don't care as to Yoshi's percentages he gave. There are too many good games all ready out and coming out for anyone to waste money and time, on a game they feel is half complete.

TL;DR
If YOU feel its incomplete don't pay for it... problem solved. The first portion of the billing cycle will speak volumes as to how "complete" the game really is, till then chill.

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That's what we been trying to tell you and everyone else having heart attacks over fee :/. People just don't know when to give it a bone. o.o

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That's what we been trying to tell everyone having heart attacks over fee :/. People just don't know when to give it a bone. o.o

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There fixed it for you :) i personally was never too concerned. My philosophy has always been, if the games crap i wont pay for it.

So i sit back and say "wow me SE or cya".

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Originally Posted by Bled

There fixed it for you :) i personally was never to concerned. My philosophy has always been if the games crap i wont pay for it, so i sit back and say "wow me SE or cya".

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At least one person is Considerate, on the other side of the fence ( you not paying the fee and not harping on it)

Bled is just the type of human being I wished we had more of; able to look at two sides of an argument/decision and give it more thought than an initial whim while still sticking to his own vire and not contributing to the masses, as well as having an acceptable level of patience.

Well written post, Lion. People often have an issue with reading given information, choosing the 'worst' aspects of it and making a huge fuss about it. Glad to see a positive OP on the issue at hand appearing.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I reserve my judgments of the games "completion" till the patch actually drops. I do however refuse to pay for a game that I feel is not complete, so i don't care as to Yoshi's percentages he gave. There are too many good games all ready out and coming out for anyone to waste money and time, on a game they feel is half complete.

TL;DR
If YOU feel its incomplete don't pay for it... problem solved. The first portion of the billing cycle will speak volumes as to how "complete" the game really is, till then chill.

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And that is completely understandable...I, for one, don't have high expectations of every single patch, its always up to you to judge whether the game is good in a certain patch or not.

The point of my first post is to sweep away the negativity, now I'm not saying this forum shouldn't have negativity because lets face the reality...that's not gonna happen...but there is a difference between constructive negativity and showing negativity just to have negativity if it makes sense to you.

If my first post is clear to you, then you can decide whether its worth paying monthly or not, and if you're still not convinced then that's perfectly fine, but at least you grasp the dev's concept on what they're trying to do for the next 14 months.

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Originally Posted by MrLion

Because they didn't read the roadmaps well...

Some of the misunderstandings are:

"Well why pay now when its going to be free again in 2.0?"

That's actually not the case....in fact the temporary free trial is going to last only 3 months, so really for those of us who are going to pay are saving 36 dollars. Something that is not clear is whether it'll be just for paid accounts or anyone can try it out. My guess, and this is the best business move for SE, is that only the paid accounts get to try it out, it makes sense because that is also when the Closed Beta of the PS3 version is going to be released.

"Why pay for an incomplete game with no content till 2.0?"

This is what really gets me and either people don't know how to read, they read it wrong, or they just complain just because. Believe it or not there is a ton of content planned from post-1.19 to post-1.23. By 1.23 we will have:

-Moogle Primal Battle
-Garuda Primal Battle
-Hamlet Defense for PvE
-The job system
-Two instanced raids
-Garlean Empire battles
-The Twelve content
-Garlean Legatus Battle
-Massive changes such as PC search, The Market Wards adjustments, Private Rooms, gear for your Personal Chocobo, and the Critical World Changes (the planned "New Eorzea")

And all of this is during the 11-month billing cycle. That's quite alot considering that the dev team has to work on 2.0 on top of all this content.

"2.0 is going to be a new game and its going to be as if 1.xx never existed"

No...no, no, no...nowhere in the roadmaps do they mention that 2.0 is going to be a "totally new game". The concept of 2.0 is that its going to change the way its going to look, have brand new content such as PvP, brand new UI, and the massive server stability that is going to gain from the new server infrastructure. That's it...yes you will still have your guildleves, you will still have your Primal Battles, your open-world dungeons/fortresses, your instanced raids.

Nowhere in the roadmaps say that this will all be gone. What is going to be gone, however, is the one-time events leading to the "cataclysm", which as the name implies is like WoW's cataclysm...same world, same content, but new content if it makes sense. The new maps in fact are coming out before 2.0 which is the radical changes to the world ("New Eorzea").

"Why are the fanboys paying for a game that is 50% done? Yoshi-P said it was 50% done so he must charge 50% of the fees"

You're dead wrong...He said that by the time 1.19 comes out the game will be 50% done to "Launch Expectations" and that 1.20 will be near 100%, which means that when 1.20 (which is when the billing cycle starts), the game is at "launching condition", therefore the fees are fine how they are going by that logic.

I will add more as I wander around the forum...any thoughts? Comments? Negativity?

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LOL you lie to yourself and time will show you, from the 1st day after sub is reinstated to ps3/V.2.0 FFXIV will look like a year old+ game thats asking too much of ppl that know better, its gonna be a empty game world~ SERVER MERGE!.

For the realist that will not pay for a halfass product, based on a loose promise of it being decent 2 years from now, good games are coming, so its all good!

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

LOL you lie to yourself and time will show you, from the 1st day after sub is reinstated to ps3/V.2.0 FFXIV will look like a year old+ game thats asking too much of ppl that know better, its gonna be a empty game world~ SERVER MERGE!.

For the realist that will not pay for a halfass product, based on a loose promise of it being decent 2 years from now, good games are coming, so its all good!

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And this is an example of what I'm talking about in my post above his...

OP, nicely said. ^^b