When will we get info on class changes?

In the live letter im guessing like everyone else.

They already added Curaga and Rebirth to CNJ, what's the point if they are going to make THM a white mage? Wouldn't they have given THM Sacrifice-ga? Or something... As it is atm you don't go around looking for a THM as your main healer. I for one am geared for "end-game" with an enfeebling set of gear and a DD set of gear. Is my Sac III decent? Sure it hits normally for 700~HP and crits up to about 1200HP but CNJ still beats me everytime for heals. Not to mention they have Protect/Shell/Stoneskin/etc... I think of THM in terms of a SCH and I think of CNJ in terms of a RDM as they are at the moment. Well sort of.

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

I havent heard many people mention anything about Unbral and Astral.. Thm's best friend. Lets discuss.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

lol.

Restrictions on 90% of gear wasn't needed. Having the optimal system wasnt a legitimate fault that needed to be fixed. Yoshi just heard some people crying about it and decided that he would ruin the game.

There's lots of examples like this.

- lol

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You mean YOU think he ruined the game, I reckon you are in a small minority, he already said that he will be fixing the issue with colour and stats on gear.

EVERY other MMO in the world requires you to hit a certain level before equiping items, so don't act so /surprised.

As long as low level items don't have so strict requirements all is fine in the kingdom.

Having to shuffle around gear for all the low level classes because the requirements are so strict is pretty crap. Oh this level 21 beetle earring? Sorry, you are only level 20 and need to earn the right to use it on your 4th job so just go and buy the level 16 bone earrings for one level.

You guys forget that there are more requirements to getting WHM. Obviously you will have to level CNJ and THM to get it. Like you have to level GLA and MRD for Paladin. Could do THM30 CNJ15 as requirement for WHM and have cure spells derive from the CNJ part of the class. The job system derives of mixed classes.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

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Quite the aggressive post.

You're correct, all spells do have an elemental association. But nukes are the purest for of said elements one could conjur.

And cures are Astral magic, one of the two elements Thaumaturges deal with.

THM lore doesn't focus solely on death. They're not a group of nihilistic emo kids hanging out at the mall. It seems like it focuses on death because of the consideration about their power and the question of if they could resurrect the dead.

Fact is, it can go either way, which is why Yoshida said we'll know when we see the class changes.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Quite the aggressive post.

You're correct, all spells do have an elemental association. But nukes are the purest for of said elements one could conjur.

And cures are Astral magic, one of the two elements Thaumaturges deal with.

THM lore doesn't focus solely on death. They're not a group of nihilistic emo kids hanging out at the mall. It seems like it focuses on death because of the consideration about their power and the question of if they could resurrect the dead.

Fact is, it can go either way, which is why Yoshida said we'll know when we see the class changes.

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If people look up what THM's actually are, they are considered "miracle workers". Sounds more like WHM to me.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

If people look up what THM's actually are, they are considered "miracle workers". Sounds more like WHM to me.

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lol once again, in japanese its curse user, dont take the etymology of a translated word to literally.

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Originally Posted by Physic

lol once again, in japanese its curse user, dont take the etymology of a translated word to literally.

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Perhaps, but isn't using this a good excuse to make WHM derive from the THM class?

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Originally Posted by Firon

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

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The elemental aspect of CNJ lore goes well beyond the fact that they have elemental nukes. The guild literally defines what a CNJ is as the physical extension of the elements in your person. The CNJs speak to and deal with elementals as a critical part of what they do on a daily basis. Sure, every spell has an element, BUT those elementals don't come in astral and umbral, only the 6 elements of nature (fire, ice, wind, lightning, water, earth), matching CNJ nukes and the elements that BLM historically uses.

As for THM, they worship the god Nald'Thal, who deals in life and death. The THM guild is stationed in the Hall of Thal, and Thal is the half that deals in death. WHM, once introduced, can provide the balance THM needs, by filling the role stationed in the Hall of Nald, and taking up the half that deals in life. This completes the balance that THM is lacking in their lore.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

The elemental aspect of CNJ lore goes well beyond the fact that they have elemental nukes. The guild literally defines what a CNJ is as the physical extension of the elements in your person. The CNJs speak to and deal with elementals as a critical part of what they do on a daily basis. Sure, every spell has an element, BUT those elementals don't come in astral and umbral, only the 6 elements of nature (fire, ice, wind, lightning, water, earth), matching CNJ nukes and the elements that BLM historically uses.

As for THM, they worship the god Nald'Thal, who deals in life and death. The THM guild is stationed in the Hall of Thal, and Thal is the half that deals in death. WHM, once introduced, can provide the balance THM needs, by filling the role stationed in the Hall of Nald, and taking up the half that deals in life. This completes the balance that THM is lacking in their lore.

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I think what it boils down to, is whether one thinks of a black mage as an elementalist or a dark magic user. conjurer is definately the elementalist, and thaum is the dark /light magic user (but in this game we are mostly exposed to the dark magic user)
the real problem, is in their very creation, they wanted to not have the concept of i just heal and i just do dmg in these mage classes, one is supposed to work via elements the other via life and death. Now they want to make a large shift, and make them fit roles they were never meant for.

basically we cant look to lore, history and such to decide who will do what, because the truth is thaum and con both were made so they could either be a whm or a blm.

but looking at their recent changes, it seems con is leaning heavily toward whm, while its possible they could go 180 and let whm settle on thm, based on the job changes and the stat distributions and what not, it seems slightly more likely that thaum will get blm, the major thing making this a bit questionable, is the ancient magics, fairly powerful elemental nukes dont really gel well with our old concept of whm.

But who knows maybe the new whm wont be a pansypants with no elemental abilities.

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Originally Posted by Physic

I think what it boils down to, is whether one thinks of a black mage as an elementalist or a dark magic user. conjurer is definately the elementalist, and thaum is the dark /light magic user (but in this game we are mostly exposed to the dark magic user)
the real problem, is in their very creation, they wanted to not have the concept of i just heal and i just do dmg in these mage classes, one is supposed to work via elements the other via life and death. Now they want to make a large shift, and make them fit roles they were never meant for.

basically we cant look to lore, history and such to decide who will do what, because the truth is thaum and con both were made so they could either be a whm or a blm.

but looking at their recent changes, it seems con is leaning heavily toward whm, while its possible they could go 180 and let whm settle on thm, based on the job changes and the stat distributions and what not, it seems slightly more likely that thaum will get blm, the major thing making this a bit questionable, is the ancient magics, fairly powerful elemental nukes dont really gel well with our old concept of whm.

But who knows maybe the new whm wont be a pansypants with no elemental abilities.

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The thing is though, if they're going to go with jobs as being throwbacks to classic Final Fantasy jobs, which they are, then BLM IS an elementalist at its core. Elemental nukes have always been the primary staple of BLMs.

Also, we CAN still look to lore, because they aren't going to rewrite it to fit new additions. They're going to make new additions that add to the lore we already have. Creating more lore to flesh out the already established world has been one of Yoshi's major goals from the start. So the lore we have is perfectly valid to speculate off of.

As far as the recent changes go, they were really only a quick bandaid fix to hold us over until they did the actual redo. I believe they gave CNJ Cure/Curaga/Raise because at the time, CNJ already HAD Cure/Raise, and it was easier at the time to just add to it instead of trying to rearrange abilities before they were ready to.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

The thing is though, if they're going to go with jobs as being throwbacks to classic Final Fantasy jobs, which they are, then BLM IS an elementalist at its core. Elemental nukes have always been the primary staple of BLMs.

Also, we CAN still look to lore, because they aren't going to rewrite it to fit new additions. They're going to make new additions that add to the lore we already have. Creating more lore to flesh out the already established world has been one of Yoshi's major goals from the start. So the lore we have is perfectly valid to speculate off of.

As far as the recent changes go, they were really only a quick bandaid fix to hold us over until they did the actual redo. I believe they gave CNJ Cure/Curaga/Raise because at the time, CNJ already HAD Cure/Raise, and it was easier at the time to just add to it instead of trying to rearrange abilities before they were ready to.

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i think CON will get blackmage, as you point out blackmage always has elemental nukes. sure they get other magic but always have elemental nukes. but this argument about jobs fitting lore, i have to look at paladin, and think ul'dah gladiators don't seem like knights with godly connections, nor do marauder. but i still put CON as blackmage

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Originally Posted by grandm

i think CON will get blackmage, as you point out blackmage always has elemental nukes. sure they get other magic but always have elemental nukes. but this argument about jobs fitting lore, i have to look at paladin, and think ul'dah gladiators don't seem like knights with godly connections, nor do marauder. but i still put CON as blackmage

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It all depends on how they continue lore, I suppose. I don't think you can really say that class=job(ARC=BRD?). The two aren't the same thing, nor are they meant to be. Same goes with GLA/PLD, they aren't really the same thing, but they will be related in some way. I'm sure there will be some kind of nobility quest line that guides you down the path to becoming a PLD, and explains how this comes about.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

It all depends on how they continue lore, I suppose. I don't think you can really say that class=job(ARC=BRD?). The two aren't the same thing, nor are they meant to be. Same goes with GLA/PLD, they aren't really the same thing, but they will be related in some way. I'm sure there will be some kind of nobility quest line that guides you down the path to becoming a PLD, and explains how this comes about.

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yeah essentially they will all entail something to the effect of, OH you have studied this, interesting, but what do you really know of XYZ, come with me and i will show you how to hone your abilities to be a true master of ______.

So for glad it would probably be something, like, you have fought your way up in the pits of ul dah, and trained your body with hardship in the seas of limsa, but what do you know about truely protecting you group? I can show you how to be a paladin, and no enemy shall be able to touch your comrades without first ripping you from the face of the planet.

for blm i could imagine it going either way
talking about mastering the elmentals destructive potential, or thaumaturge abandoning the precepts of life to focus soley on the destruction of their foes.

I remember reading someone post that on that 2.0 render/picuture of the group fighting that chimera hydra thing, apparently you can see a WHM (from the white mage casting animation?) wielding a radical in his hand (CNJ weapon). Can't find the person's original post, but does anyone know if there's any truth to that?? I couldn't see much.. but mayb that's cuz I want cnj to be blm, cause that what the LORE already dictates (get it together Dev's :) ).

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Originally Posted by Exni

I remember reading someone post that on that 2.0 render/picuture of the group fighting that chimera hydra thing, apparently you can see a WHM (from the white mage casting animation?) wielding a radical in his hand (CNJ weapon). Can't find the person's original post, but does anyone know if there's any truth to that?? I couldn't see much.. but mayb that's cuz I want cnj to be blm, cause that what the LORE already dictates (get it together Dev's :) ).

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Yeah, I looked into that, myself. Honestly, the referred to character (Agrias Oaks), is so small and surrounded in so many shiny effects that I can't make much out from it. I can't even tell what race Agrias is, much less what weapon he/she is wielding. Come to think of it, I don't even see anything depicting that it's supposed to be a WHM, so I'm really not sure what the so-called evidence is.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You mean YOU think he ruined the game, I reckon you are in a small minority, he already said that he will be fixing the issue with colour and stats on gear.

EVERY other MMO in the world requires you to hit a certain level before equiping items, so don't act so /surprised.

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If every MMO jumped off a bridge would you do the same? Probably lemming.

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Originally Posted by Physic

yeah essentially they will all entail something to the effect of, OH you have studied this, interesting, but what do you really know of XYZ, come with me and i will show you how to hone your abilities to be a true master of ______.

So for glad it would probably be something, like, you have fought your way up in the pits of ul dah, and trained your body with hardship in the seas of limsa, but what do you know about truely protecting you group? I can show you how to be a paladin, and no enemy shall be able to touch your comrades without first ripping you from the face of the planet.

for blm i could imagine it going either way
talking about mastering the elmentals destructive potential, or thaumaturge abandoning the precepts of life to focus soley on the destruction of their foes.

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The THMs guild has nothing to do with life only death so THMs abandoning Life would be silly. On the other hand them embracing Life and abandoning their dark pasts seems more likely to me. . .

My belief: CNJ30/THM15 = WHM and THM30/CNJ15 = BLM but we will have to wait for 1.20 to see how the abilities shake out.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

My belief: CNJ30/THM15 = BLM and THM30/CNJ15 = WHM but we will have to wait for 1.20 to see how the abilities shake out.

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There I fixed that little typo for you :3

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Originally Posted by Bowen

The THMs guild has nothing to do with life only death so THMs abandoning Life would be silly. On the other hand them embracing Life and abandoning their dark pasts seems more likely to me. . .

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actually the idea oh THM bettering their skills in the arts of death makes more sense

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

My belief: CNJ30/THM15 = WHM and THM30/CNJ15 = BLM but we will have to wait for 1.20 to see how the abilities shake out.

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We'll be finding out a lot sooner than that. Yoshi will be releasing the new list of abilities for classes in a week or so to get player feedback. Even better, if we're lucky, we may even be able to get an answer as to what class is what job in a few hours during the live session.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

We'll be finding out a lot sooner than that. Yoshi will be releasing the new list of abilities for classes in a week or so to get player feedback. Even better, if we're lucky, we may even be able to get an answer as to what class is what job in a few hours during the live session.

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i think he has been asked this many times lately and not given a straight answer, it is possible that he has been waiting to answer this question in the live letters but i think, he likes to keep us guessing

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Originally Posted by grandm

i think he has been asked this many times lately and not given a straight answer, it is possible that he has been waiting to answer this question in the live letters but i think, he likes to keep us guessing

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An answer in the live letter is me being hopeful. The new ability list is confirmed to be coming out within a week or two, though.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

An answer in the live letter is me being hopeful. The new ability list is confirmed to be coming out within a week or two, though.

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i know i'm hoping too, fingers crossed

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

An answer in the live letter is me being hopeful. The new ability list is confirmed to be coming out within a week or two, though.

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what ability list? you heard that from who again?

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Originally Posted by giottoV

what ability list? you heard that from who again?

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Yoshi promised a while back that he would release the ability changes shortly after 1.19 goes live.

He recently confirmed this and addressed the delay here in the recent dev post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...929#post423929

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

Yoshi promised a while back that he would release the ability changes shortly after 1.19 goes live.

He recently confirmed this and addressed the delay here in the recent dev post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...929#post423929

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awww what about that live letter from the producer? they are not going to present anything there about jobs? well... theres only one way to find out.

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Originally Posted by giottoV

awww what about that live letter from the producer? they are not going to present anything there about jobs? well... theres only one way to find out.

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Well, he might give some information, and I'm hoping he does. I wouldn't count on a thorough list of abilities until later, though. Personally, I just want an answer to this CNJ/THM BLM/WHM debate in the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

Well, he might give some information, and I'm hoping he does. I wouldn't count on a thorough list of abilities until later, though. Personally, I just want an answer to this CNJ/THM BLM/WHM debate in the live letter.

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Well you guys might be surprised if one class that you must level for whm or blm are from DOH who knows lol.

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Originally Posted by Exni

I remember reading someone post that on that 2.0 render/picuture of the group fighting that chimera hydra thing, apparently you can see a WHM (from the white mage casting animation?) wielding a radical in his hand (CNJ weapon). Can't find the person's original post, but does anyone know if there's any truth to that?? I couldn't see much.. but mayb that's cuz I want cnj to be blm, cause that what the LORE already dictates (get it together Dev's :) ).

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

Yeah, I looked into that, myself. Honestly, the referred to character (Agrias Oaks), is so small and surrounded in so many shiny effects that I can't make much out from it. I can't even tell what race Agrias is, much less what weapon he/she is wielding. Come to think of it, I don't even see anything depicting that it's supposed to be a WHM, so I'm really not sure what the so-called evidence is.

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http://i42.tinypic.com/azgwwh.jpg

It was me that made the post about the CNJ weapon in the pic. I outlined the weapon (Which can be seen here and here from ffxivpro/ffxiah). I also boxed around where it says "Maiden of the Grail" which is a white mage title. I also boxed around the character which is the current pose of a Lalafell while casting, head down and hand in front of face. The head to body ratio is also lalafell, as is the size in the full image in comparison to everything around it. Agrias is a female in the series and it is in turn a female lalafell as you can see by the bangs (its the one with 2 pigtails and barrets you can change the color of) and the ears. Conversely if you look behind the chatbox on the same picture (literally through the chatbox) you can see the reflection off of a black mage pointed hat.

Edit: Zoom in by 150% to see at that size I posted on the original document.
Edit2: I'll even provide the original document link: http://wdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/dow...0_Specs_EN.pdf

Edit3: Also on another note about THM being WHM because it deals with life and death, so does WHM! If you anger a WHM while fighting, what happens? They kill you. How? By not curing you :P I still stand firm with my original post that THM should be WHM but I leveled CNJ to be WHM and hope they stick to the image released and make CNJ WHM.

Don't make us wait 'till Friday/next weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Don't make us wait 'till Friday/next weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

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They've already withheld it over a month, what's another week? lol

At this point, I don't even care anymore. It's too late for our feedback to matter.

They just confirmed WHM is CNJ http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dvl5d7 via the live broadcast.

Yea.................. While I think there were a few nuggets of info that I cared about from the Live Letter, most of it was either not a big deal to me or has already been discussed in about 40000000000 interviews. What I really want and didnt get was specifics about class reballance and skill redistribution, and more information on the specifics of what makes jobs better in a specific role (if not specific abilities) and just how restricted they will be from cross-classing and traits.

I honestly an tired of waiting for them to fix Gladiator, but I can make myself wait. In the mean time would it kill them to release information on this already so I at least know what I have to look forward too.