The Current Status of FFXIV Patch 3.1 and How to Address it Moving Forward

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Originally Posted by cynical_baby

One thing i don't understand:

If that is true, why some Anima waepons are BiS right now and better than Gordian weapons, like for Bard or Warrior, and other are even worse than upgraded Eso weapons, like for Ninja or Dragoon?

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I took it as a reference to the timeline. Relic weapons are eventually the same as "hardest difficulty content" just not at first, they are always behind in Item level updates. (exception being first coil but they changed raid weapons to +5, which they took away with alex savage for some reason)

He could be talking about literal dps strength but I think it's more a general reference to item level and how relics were handled in the past.

That's all well and good but as far as I'm concerned, it's too little, too late. I lost track of how many ppl who have quit completely over Savage, either due to not being able to clear or have cleared but groups broke up anyway. Adjusting for patch 3.2? Isn't that when the new raid comes out? Doesn't that make current savage invalid to clear? That is unless we have to clear a4s to progress and if ppl are still stuck on a3s, there goes progressing into the new alex. As far as I'm concerned the modifications should be implemented asap, so ppl can clear before 3.2 while it's still valid/current content.
I've had ppl telling me if I want to progress I should transfer servers but I counter-argue I shouldn't have to since I was able to clear all of coil on my server before echo. It's been half a year and most ppl still can't get past a3s. I don't even know how much longer my current group will go before a3s possibly claims another victim and I have to yet again, search for another group.
The raiding community has already been destroyed largely thanks to lack of content and the current difficulty of savage Alex. The damage is done.

All developers ever need to do is to listen to your userbase & admit if you made a mistake. So many sins can be forgiven if you just acknowledge feedback & strive for betterment.

This letter was very welcome & I'd go so far as to suggest that you (the development team) communicate with the community more often in this way. It soothes a lot of tension & helps us to understand each other's thought processes.

Namaste, Daniel (Culf).

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Well, at least I can still say you've been listening. I personally though would like to add the suggestion to look over the specialty crafts in detail as well. As it sits it is a minor annoyance but if needing specialty items from crafts with little to no relation to each other than it may result further down the line in a massive crafting balance issue.

Also, I'd like to request alot of attention being made to Gold Saucer. It was very shocking to see Lords of Verminion go dead on my server the day after it's release.

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Maybe because most people find Gold Saucer to be a waste of time. so why would you want them to focus on it more?.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Maybe because most people find Gold Saucer to be a waste of time. so why would you want them to focus on it more?.

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The lack of attention, and even player interaction, for something like gold saucer is just as concerning since it's content that isn't being utilized despite the development time.

The one thing I was looking forward to (anima) is not only an insanely ridiculous time sink of epic proportions but they've confirmed that it's already going to be outdated in 2.0. This letter confirmed my worst fears and was the nail in the coffin for me. I don't have a job and as such can spend insane amounts of time in game- but only if it's fun and rewarding. That aspect is gone for me.

Sincerely,

Dedicated paying customer since beta version 2.0

This game is new player/noob centered.
Old players are not considered at all.

You are a new player? You don't play since a lot of time? Here it is an easy way to reach everyone.
You are an old player? Who cares if you got even more skilled while playing. Stay forever at the same level of new players difficulty-wise. You'll never ever get anything more challenging.

There is no continuation between a patch and another, no content is required to advance to the next level, each patch dies when the next one is out. I can login whenever I want, buy something and be able to play the current content.
There is no incentive to keep playing every day. What of the current content should keep me glued to the game since everything is always the same soup?

They could have made the anima weapon ilvl 215, but once you do FINALLY get your anima weapon, you will be ahead in the long run.

1. Further patches of the game will possibly allow for upgrading stats of the anima to match your playstyle

2. IT GLOWS!!! The more you play with your new anima weapon the more it glows. Maybe the anima grind sucks now, but you will say it was worth it when you are standing next to others in your raid group with a shiny and nobody else has one.

3. The devs make it this way and will probably continue to do so to make it easier for others that don't raid often to have more of a sense of accomplishment, while at the same time setting your weapon and ilvl on par with harder endgame content.

I am relieved that I at least have an option to get an ilvl 210 weapon that doesn't seem out of my reach when relating this to Burden of the Father (Savage).

Don't know if anyone else suggested it yet, but my 2 cents on making the relic weapon not requiring high-end raids...

I very much support this decision, as I like the idea of having a good weapon that players can get if they're dedicated enough, without necessarily needing to be good enough to clear top-end content. That being said, I also think that the weapon should become easier to obtain by high-end raiders. A quick off the cuff example: clearing any floor of Alex in Savage difficulty should give somewhere around 20-30 precision parts to each player, once per week. That way, raiders already clearing Savage can get a bit of a boost and reduce the grind by a good chunk by simply clearing Alex for two weeks. Similarly, it should be possible to trade extreme primal tokens for the unidentifiable items, at a fairly quick rate (3-5 of one extreme token per item, perhaps).

Unsubbed. Maybe they will figure this game out in 4.0 but until then, it's tired and boring and the devs are so far out of touch. All that time wasted on diadem and lov..

The problem with this game is that it is essentially a racing game, and those aren't popular because of a single reason:

you're on your last lap! its been several minutes! you've invested a great deal of energy! oh shit its the last lap! last turn! oh wait no hold up "you hit a patch of grass on the last corner that had too many rocks, try again?"

NO-ONE LIKES TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER

The mechanics are fine, the dps checks are fine, having to restart for 1 mishap is not. All of these top tier raids remind me of racing games, no room for error, welp play by yourself then yoshi

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Based on this, we are currently making balance adjustments to Alexander: Midas (Savage), which is scheduled for release in Patch 3.2, so that the difficulty is somewhere between The Second Coil of Bahamut and the Final Coil of Bahamut.

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So...based on that statement...you've already got the difficulty set at a high level and now you're going to nerf it? I have a much better idea...nerf it liked you plan, and release it as Alex: Midas (Hard), since there's already an Alex: Midas (Normal). Then, give the raiders who loved the challenge of A3S and A4S the real Alex: Midas (Savage), except 4 floors of real fun and challenge, instead of just the two we got this patch.

A1S and A2S are perfect examples of the difficulty levels for the proposed Alex: Midas (Hard)
A3S and A4S are perfect examples of actual savage content

I've heard it said it's too much work to introduce an additional tier of raiding...but based on the quote in the letter, it looks like you're doing it already, and just planning to delete the actual, difficult savage raids you'd already designed. This is very saddening...A3S and A4S might only be average fights in terms of mechanics and creativity, but the difficulty was phenomenal and kept my raid team happily busy and engaged for many many hours!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Just as mentioned in the patch notes, a long period of time will be required to complete Zodiac and Anima weapons, and they have been designed based on the idea that you will progress through the series at your own pace...

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I'm don't think you're quite understanding what the problem is here, Yoshi. Players shouldn't have to do "hard" content to get their relics - if that's the game design you choose. However, players should be able to have alternative paths available to obtain a relic - such as are more expedited way if you're able to clear more challenging content.

Also, please come out with some character customization options in terms of play style. Yes, this game has a lot of classes/jobs. However, my paladin likely plays the exact same way as every other paladin on every other server. Boooooring.

It'd be nice if there was an "expedited raid option" for Relic.

Just keep it nice and simple, whatever grind you gotta do, you get get the same items in 1/3 of the time doing at least some raid difficulty content.
That way the super casual basement-dweller can do the 2 month long 5 hr per day grind, while the working class 3 hour 5 days a week raider can do more difficult content and perhaps even complete SEVERAL Relics.
The shock, a game which touted the Armory System as its key differentiator from every other gear treadmill MMO, may allow people to reach endgame gear levels on more than 1 class?! - Absurd.

Another thing I don't see a clear answer to is if they are still going to adjust the current savage difficulty so the remaining few still trying to raid can clear before 3.2.
The thing they have forgotten to keep doing are player polls. In 1.0 they did those regularly to see what the player base wanted and would like to see and followed through on what players wanted.

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Originally Posted by technole

No, i205 Codex of the Heavens from Thordan is pretty good too. It's a baby version of the i210 Gordian Codex with the same type of sub-stats.

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I don't say about the stats. The relic stats itself is pretty good for SCH, can't comment for 205 stats. I'm saying about the model.

Good grief. I don't actually care about the difficulty of raid content at this point. I just cannot do another round of 4 bosses in locked rooms throwing out ordered mechanics again. I just can't.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Good grief. I don't actually care about the difficulty of raid content at this point. I just cannot do another round of 4 bosses in locked rooms throwing out ordered mechanics again. I just can't.

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Endgame. Endgame never changes.
-Naoki Yoshida

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- Maybe trim down the quests from previous expansion, since there are, literally hundreds of quests at level 50

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Actually, there are 70. And besides the lv 49 trial, Castrum and the other 8-man dungeon right after, everything else is in roulettes that people do often. And can be undersized to make it faster (especially for the HM primals).

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Good grief. I don't actually care about the difficulty of raid content at this point. I just cannot do another round of 4 bosses in locked rooms throwing out ordered mechanics again. I just can't.

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You want non-locked rooms where we can bring the boss around corridors?

You want completely random mechanics?

Randomized boss?

What do you want? How would you do it?

Thank you for continuing to improve this amazing game :)

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Originally Posted by Satyagrahi

Thank you for continuing to improve this amazing game :)

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And this, my friend, is how we got into this predicament in the first place. White knighting only confuses the devs when they come to the forums for feedback. ::sigh::

His words: "If it isn't fun you're doing it wrong."
I don't consider grinding upon hours of the same content and mindlessly repeating the process over days throughout either fun nor challenging or rewarding as mentioned by Alexander_Dragonfang. I had completed the Zodiac quest line and had hoped they would find a better means to implement future relic weapons, as the relic weapons were late content compared to what was already available. A lot of my fc members have simply stopped due to boredom. Please reply so we know we are being heard, I would be more then happy to direct you to other post where people have written well laid-out explanations as to why they feel this game is going the wrong way.

It is also a matter of playerbase being lead to believe one thing and then the delivery falling so flat that even the strongest of supporters are left wondering what happened. False promises are worse than no promises at all, and are a reason why players get discouraged.

I shall list some examples:

What was advertised: New ranged class, machinist to add spice and variety to ranged support dps, presumably mobile and able to shoot on the run.
What we got: Homogenization of bard and machinist, and turning them both into turrets, killing mobility.

Advertised: Relic quest that would be different than earlier relic quests, less grindy, actually fun.
What we got: Even grindier quest that is not fun at any point.

Advertised: Specialist crafters would help expand capabilities of people that choose to specialize in the 3 fields out of 8.
What we got: Each specialist class has exactly the same skills that cost high cp and is used as a mechanic to gate recipes rather than advance players.

What was advertised: You can marry the character of your partner/friend in game.
What we got: You can in fact do so, but in order to have customization and a mount you have to pay real money, once per character.

What was advertised: Any event art that features designs that look really nice (like the red hooded miqoute in winter event).
What we got: Nothing that looks like the art

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

You want non-locked rooms where we can bring the boss around corridors?

You want completely random mechanics?

Randomized boss?

What do you want? How would you do it?

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Having an actual environment like they did with coil, using an arena that becomes dynamic with the fight, or a boss that requires the arena to be catered to it (like a long rectangular one for demon wall)

I had a thought last night, I don't recall seeing anyone bring it up here but I apologize if I missed it.

One thing I had not considered, even though I do believe the messed up pretty bad with the timing of the relic release, this raid patch we did a have a tome weapon that did not require A2S drop to obtain. I think this probably had some impact on their planning of the relic release. Whether it was right or wrong to withhold the relic quests for this long we can debate about. But I for one was pretty pleased with that aspect, and if you look at it like that it does sort of make sense why it would've been problematic had they released relics earlier. And that is the pace at which they want us to gear up (or plan for us to, I guess). If we had relic weapon at 200 at the same time, that's 990 more tomes we would've had to spend on gear and people would've geared faster and that's kinda the opposite of what they want, to make sure the content has a certain shelf life at least.

I still think the best plan would have been release 170 with expansion, update to 190 with alex savage release, 200 with void ark (maybe withhold the upgrade items until the next patch), and then 210 on the last leg before next raid patch (VA upgrade items here), with savage weapons being 215. This ensures they remain slightly behind raid weapons and keeps that content relative.

But I just wanted to look at it from a different perspective, they did do at least one good thing by not locking the weapon behind 2nd turn, I'm sure a lot of groups were able to benefit with early clears because of it.

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Advertised: Relic quest that would be different than earlier relic quests, less grindy, actually fun.
What we got: Even grindier quest that is not fun at any point.

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What was actually advertised: Less RNG (ie Zodiac Braves), actually seeing progression, many methods of progress.

What we got: Exactly that.

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I don't consider grinding upon hours of the same content and mindlessly repeating the process over days throughout either fun nor challenging or rewarding

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Then don't, I've done all of 8 Alex NM 1 runs, to help a friend. I'll do 2 more just to get rid of the precision bolt, and call it done. I do beastmen and roulettes mainly. Which are pretty fast and since it's only once a day, not too repetitive.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

I do beastmen and roulettes mainly. Which are pretty fast and since it's only once a day, not too repetitive.

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It's more on a meta example, when they said that we'd get new content. I expected Anima quests to use existing content as their means to progress. Not old 2.x content that doesn't offer any player interaction (or otherwise needs more players participating, when other areas like Ct need this more desperately).

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that they would reuse old content (and it's not even, "taking the concept and giving it a new paint") and consider it as passable for something that's supposed to be new content. Especially in context of them having to delay the questline for so long because it wasn't finished or ready. The entirty of step 2 feels like fluff because the 2.x dungeons can be done unsynced (and you can change your weapon), and doesn't have you touching any 3.x primals or level 60 content (and neither does step 3, outside of tomestome rewards for Ex primals)

Relic weapon: Endless grind of old content which we grinded 1000's of times before, to gain a weapon equal to raid weapon aimed at players that don't do said raid content with insane time effort and RNG to screw some unlucky players over. (Every part of it is wrong)

Savage being easier: Mixed feeling. Obviously there are players that can clear current savage, so what are those players going to get? And if you tune it too easily, what are the more average raid groups going to do after clearing it?

All the other changes: Are you going to put out some new rules and make us grind same old content again? We'r in desperate need of fresh content, not re-skinned hunts with good or bad rules, not easy version of Alexander that we grind first then grind it more on an easier Savage difficulty after already seeing it too much on the easy mode.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

What was actually advertised: Less RNG (ie Zodiac Braves), actually seeing progression, many methods of progress.

What we got: Exactly that.



Then don't, I've done all of 8 Alex NM 1 runs, to help a friend. I'll do 2 more just to get rid of the precision bolt, and call it done. I do beastmen and roulettes mainly. Which are pretty fast and since it's only once a day, not too repetitive.

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Less rng? Whats the first step again? And for a weapon that was dated 6 months before its release.

The drop rate is slightly better, as it should be since you spend more time flying around these huge zones than actually participating in fates it seems like. It still RNG, sure, but it's not as a bad as atma was originally, plus we can level up with the fates unlike before where you had to be on that job with the relic equipped to get an atma. The set of dungeons are guaranteed drops, you don't have to run them until you get an rng drop, although we do have to run those on the job we selected vs before we could run the dungeons on any drop. I'll take the rng-free approach here as a good improvement, as well. The other steps aren't all that different, we had to spend a lot of tomes on the books before and now we just have a few more options instead of tomes only, and the crafted items are pretty equal (wasn't there 12 or 16 crafts for zodiac? I don't recall since I didn't finish that part of the quest.) The weapon is outdated, sure, but there is less RNG overall and more flexibility how to accomplish.

I'm not white knighting, my general opinion that SE flubbed the early part of expansion has not changed. I think it's important for us to let them know the good along with the bad, and most people only seems to be focusing on the bad which doesn't particularly help anyone find the solution.

So, basically this is Yoshi's way of sweeping our concerns under the rug because we clearly don't know what we want. It's a bit like a parent who keeps feeding you food you don't like because it's supposed to be good for you, and keeps the cookies locked up on the top shelf.

It's really great that you want to cater to casual players, really it is. If SE took a look at my login history, they'd know I'm a casual player myself! I slowly grinded my Zeta weapon. It took me almost a year to complete. By the time I had it in my hands, it was quickly overshadowed by Heavensward and level 60. This time, I'm looking at the relic and shaking my head in disappointment.

Honestly, I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that people want to have fun when they play a game. Grindy, repetitive content is practically a staple in an MMO, but it's possible to go too far to the extremes, which is what the Anima weapons are a perfect example of. These weapons are too grindy, too repetitive, and too boring to obtain. If history repeats itself (and I have no doubt in my mind that it shall, given the pattern we're seeing), we'll be seeing level 220-230 weapons available for tomes far sooner than we casual players would see our relics at the same level.

It kills all incentive to work towards these things knowing that it would take longer to accomplish than it would to simply wait for the next best weapon. You want an example? I had a level 130 white mage staff from tomes and crystal tower drops (yes, crystal tower, not coil!) long before I ever managed to finish upgrading my Curtana Nexus (level 115)! I had started working on the relic from day one!

There may be a few players out there who are content to chase the provierbial carrot on a stick, but I'm not about to repeat the process a second time. The simple fact that Yoshi stated 'new allagan tome' in the response indicates that, once again, we'll see an upheaval of esoterics and law tomes just to reset the status quo with a new set of arbitrary tomes at a higher item level. History repeats itself time and time again.

When updates get predictable, the game has clearly gone South. Stop stalling, and start innovating. This is one subscriber who is losing her patience.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

The drop rate is slightly better, as it should be since you spend more time flying around these huge zones than actually participating in fates it seems like. It still RNG, sure, but it's not as a bad as atma was originally, plus we can level up with the fates unlike before where you had to be on that job with the relic equipped to get an atma. The set of dungeons are guaranteed drops, you don't have to run them until you get an rng drop, although we do have to run those on the job we selected vs before we could run the dungeons on any drop. I'll take the rng-free approach here as a good improvement, as well. The other steps aren't all that different, we had to spend a lot of tomes on the books before and now we just have a few more options instead of tomes only, and the crafted items are pretty equal (wasn't there 12 or 16 crafts for zodiac? I don't recall since I didn't finish that part of the quest.) The weapon is outdated, sure, but there is less RNG overall and more flexibility how to accomplish.

I'm not white knighting, my general opinion that SE flubbed the early part of expansion has not changed. I think it's important for us to let them know the good along with the bad, and most people only seems to be focusing on the bad which doesn't particularly help anyone find the solution.

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I definitely agree that being able to use alt classes is a step in the right direction. It always really annoyed me that you couldn't use them in a game that claims to be very alt friendly. Tbh, I think the second step was the most thrown together one, like they scrapped the real grind last minute and said "screw it, just make them run the newest dungeons quick. Probably was scrapped as a result of the late release.

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Originally Posted by Snowaeth

All the other changes: Are you going to put out some new rules and make us grind same old content again? We'r in desperate need of fresh content, not re-skinned hunts with good or bad rules, not easy version of Alexander that we grind first then grind it more on an easier Savage difficulty after already seeing it too much on the easy mode.

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The sad thing about this is that it's not even reskinned in context anima step 3. It's the same hunts and the same beast tribes that we've been doing since ARR. All they did was update it so it gives 3.x rewards.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Probably was scrapped as a result of the late release.

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Yea the step to 200 seems out of place, I agree. I'm not sure why they settled with 170/200/210, I think they should have had a 190 stage and they could've split the last stage up into smaller chunks that way. But, hindsight is 20/20, so we just kinda have to hope they realize they messed this up pretty bad and are working to not make the same mistakes again. That's what it's really about, if you make a mistake, that's fine, own up to it. If you make the same mistake again that's when people start to doubt, that's where we are right now. If they make the same mistake again it's going to be outright destructive to their game.

I hate reading all these long paragraphs that seems to be just a rephrase of one another. A lot of the comments I'm seeing in itself from the community are nothing new and are repetitive. People complaining about relics being outdated, I translate these to people wanting the weapons system to be redesign and go from being horizontal progression to vertical progression or was it the other way around, you get idea.

Also, there seems to be tunnel vision, if the comment they read doesn't agree, they ignore...and continue on to repeating themselves.

Personally I trade in my nin zeta to work on the relic, while at the same time keeping the eso weapon so that I can swap them out depending on how I feel.
Currently grinding FATE to equip my alts of an alt with 200 relic weapons, why? Because I don't want 3 weeks worth of cap to be used on purchasing more eso weapons. I would rather use the eso for the armors, they just looks awesome, of course some looks meh...maybe I'm just too casual...

Step 1 - Grind; I got three crystals from Azys La in 1.5 hours, I wouldn't say the grind is bad and my drg was able to get a level out of it.
Step 2 - did this step for my nin, during that time I see other level 60, but at the same time I see new people and or those that are working on atls. I'm helping people to level up, sweet...
Step 3 - gathering the unidentified; gonna take my time and just do my dailies, at least now I won't see the red text stating that my tokens are capped
- The HQ stuff, I'll wait, if by the time I have all unidentified and the price is still high, I'll probably get together with people to go farm my own mats.

Yoshida is a joke. So is his l lapdog Bayohne.
Maybe I should put it into words they can understand, ヨシダさんはプレーヤーについて極めて無知であるよ！！


I'm fine with Anima Weapons being mainly a option for non-raiding players to have a decent weapon and I don't mind it taking some time to complete. What I'm NOT okay with is it being based on RNG or being forced into buying items that only a small number of players can craft.

You'd think they'd learn from 2.0 that NOBODY WANTS TO FATE GRIND!

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The difficulty was high to the point that players were unable to clear the content ... severity of DPS checks

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This has to be a poor attempt at trolling. If it's not it only shows how out of touch and detached they've become. They create fights that are nothing but 'avoid the aoe' and 'do as much damage as possible in 5 seconds' then take away DPS mobility and add in skill restrictions and wonder why people can't clear it? Really?

BRD/MCH can't move because SE wants them to be casters now and BLM/SMN are under tight time limits with Enochian and Aethertrail Attunement. BLM is almost unplayable in raid content.



The devs need to swallow their JP pride and realize that people aren't paying $15 to have a second job.

So if I have this right, the real reason the Relic was delayed was because of Gordian being i210 as well? Then he states in hindsight he could've raised the raid weapon by 5 ilevels to combat this problem. In other words, the same situation they had in 2.x with the original Relic and Allagan weapons, it didn't occur to them to just simply do the same thing with the Gordian weapon, then release the Relic earlier? Okay then...

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

So if I have this right, the real reason the Relic was delayed was because of Gordian being i210 as well? Then he states in hindsight he could've raised the raid weapon by 5 ilevels to combat this problem. In other words, the same situation they had in 2.x with the original Relic and Allagan weapons, it didn't occur to them to just simply do the same thing with the Gordian weapon, then release the Relic earlier? Okay then...

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I call bs on his excuse. If thats the issue, just raise gordian weapon to 215 in an earlier hotfix. Didn't they have to do this with bcob weapons as well? If so, do we learn from our mistakes? Also, even if it was valid, it does not explain holding back the first two steps.