What is wrong with people on the forum..?

Oh and lastly, I love how people are unsubbing because of relics. I dont know what they expected really.. How about instead of a grind SE just hands them out? In all honesty would you guys like that better? :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

The MMO industry has been plagued with poor business decisions by management for years. They seem to treat an MMO like any other project they're operating, cutting budgets to try and get the optimal return on the money put into it. Unfortunately with MMOs you can't afford to take the risk of ---.

---

There are some here who post for the sake of posting but this guy at the very least knows what he is saying. We can't just blindy support what we think is right or wrong without having proper basis or understanding who are people unhappy about this. Our reasons should be valid and not blatant bashing without facts :/. No good will come out of that. I've seen this in many MMOs too, especially the F2P Korean ones where if the profit drops, they cut content. Dragon nest is a fine example.

I see a lot of people having a good time in the game, PF full of fate and dungeon parties. People excited to be working on the new relic. Unlike a lot of the complainers on the forum there are a lot of us having fun with FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GiseleValkyrie

Ok I see this innovative talk alot what do you want innovative in this game? This is a real question because right now it just seems you want to just shut down and jump down anyone's throat for the heck of it.

---

Fights that don't take place in flat circular arenas? I guess A1S and A2S kinda break the mold by going with...flat, rectangular arenas. Gear that isn't just the same stats for years and years? Better implementation of what should be a really good crafting system, possibly by tying raid gear to crafting? A tome system that actually meshes with their innovative armory system instead of clashing with it? I could probably think of more stuff if you want me to.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Oh and lastly, I love how people are unsubbing because of relics. I dont know what they expected really.. How about instead of a grind SE just hands them out? In all honesty would you guys like that better? :P

---

As someone who might unsub when my sub runs out this time, I would have liked something that required actual skill instead of just a grind. I got the ARR relic within a month of launch, and that was leveling my character from scratch. Defeating Titan back then actually felt like a sense of accomplishment, just to get my base relic. I haven't felt anything like that from any of the crappy grind steps since then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

I see a lot of people having a good time in the game, PF full of fate and dungeon parties. People excited to be working on the new relic. Unlike a lot of the complainers on the forum there are a lot of us having fun with FFXIV.

---

This. ^

People are saying the game is dead over ONE patch. People are unsubbing over this... I feel bad for SE mostly. They try to give people something to do since its been boring since 3.1 launch and people are taking their hard work and poopin' on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

This. ^

People are saying the game is dead over ONE patch. People are unsubbing over this... I feel bad for SE mostly. They try to give people something to do since its been boring since 3.1 launch and people are taking their hard work and poopin' on it.

---

I replied to you in part above, but I'll say more here.

I don't think it's all over one patch. There's been simmering discontent since 3.0 brought...flying, and not much else. Then they added a story version of an endgame raid whose story is underwhelming, and gated crafting/gathering progress behind a ridiculous grind. I can't say much about the discontent over Savage, but A3S seems to be a wall a lot of groups aren't clearing. Now they add a new relic quest chain and it's a moderately better rehash of some of the worst parts of the ARR relic. It's kinda been a chain of "what the eff" since about 3.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

:

As someone who might unsub when my sub runs out this time, I would have liked something that required actual skill instead of just a grind. I got the ARR relic within a month of launch, and that was leveling my character from scratch. Defeating Titan back then actually felt like a sense of accomplishment, just to get my base relic. I haven't felt anything like that from any of the crappy grind steps since then.

---

I see. I can't really share you or others pain because I have 0 interest in relics. I MAY do the ARR relic up to zeta but otherwise that I'm good. Animas arent really that good anyway unfortunately.. My main is WHM, I saw the WHM canes and they look.. Shiny but the staffs are kinda ugly..

I've definitely already removed my cc and am only paying in Crysta for when I intend to pay now. I was fine having weeks barely having anything to want to do and days not logging in, and I'm not going to let some badly designed content force it's hand to do that either now. I'll play when it's good.

Also, check the Reddit. The salt mines are going equally strong there, it's not an isolated incident, nor should it be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I replied to you in part above, but I'll say more here.

I don't think it's all over one patch. There's been simmering discontent since 3.0 brought...flying, and not much else. Then they added a story version of an endgame raid whose story is underwhelming, and gated crafting/gathering progress behind a ridiculous grind. I can't say much about the discontent over Savage, but A3S seems to be a wall a lot of groups aren't clearing. Now they add a new relic quest chain and it's a moderately better rehash of some of the worst parts of the ARR relic. It's kinda been a chain of "what the eff" since about 3.0.

---

Hm..

I don't really do raids like alexander and such. Id probably only do it for the mount but I am sure as hell that nobody on my server can beat it so I dont wanna waste my time

But I sorta get your point, I just think people are overreacting though.

P.s: How do you edit your comments/threads? I cant seem to do it on mobile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

This. ^

People are saying the game is dead over ONE patch. People are unsubbing over this... I feel bad for SE mostly. They try to give people something to do since its been boring since 3.1 launch and people are taking their hard work and poopin' on it.

---

I think the argument is that the new relic quest is anything but hard work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conando

I think the argument is that the new relic quest is anything but hard work.

---

Eh? People are complaining that is super long and by what Ive seen it does seem like hard work. Ive heard you need all beast tribes but ixali to rank 3 (correct me if im wrong) for special mats and need up to 50k law

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

This. ^

People are saying the game is dead over ONE patch. People are unsubbing over this... I feel bad for SE mostly. They try to give people something to do since its been boring since 3.1 launch and people are taking their hard work and poopin' on it.

---

Hard work? Please do explain that one to me. Let us look at this in a logical manner; what exactly was new that was introduced?The only thing that pops to mind is the weapon designs, and the item graphics/info of the items used to obtain said relics. Having done quite a bit of graphical design myself, I can tell you that making those weapons took very, very little time; the time consuming aspect of game design in general is not the looks, but the underlying coding itself. The foundation for the weapons' stats has long been coded; no work there. The quests for the relic weapon takes so little coding it's laughable. For example; for the ATMA-like portion, here's a (very rough) code line that would work; IF <player> <getcompletion: FATE "xxx"> THEN give <player> <item> IF /random x% TRUE. My coding is horribad, I know, but all you'd need to do is clarify the new items in the code; the rest is already made. The 'hard work' you speak of is nonexistent for this patch. Putting new items into the game is simple; using old methods already in the code to obtain said items is even moreso. If they actually introduced new fights, new mechanics to obtain said items ect....THAT would have been hard work. But this? No....this is just a subscription grab.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Eh? People are complaining that is super long and by what Ive seen it does seem like hard work. Ive heard you need all beast tribes but ixali to rank 3 (correct me if im wrong) for special mats and need up to 50k law

---

What I meant by this is that it's basically a copy+paste from 2.0, in that people find it hard to believe Square-Enix put any "hard work" into this patch. Now we're certainly putting hard work into it, sure.

In my experience the haters yell loudest which is why the forums are constantly so negative OP.

Don't worry not everyone hates the relic quest. I understand their annoyance and anger but I don't know what they expected lol.. its relic.. it's always been grindy and taken weeks/months to finish steps unless you have infinite resources and there are just some things you can't make magically appear without the passage of time.... like runs, tome farming, beast dailies so on and so forth

They just want it handed to them which makes no sense to me. It's the relic.

If you don't like the grind then I suggest seeking your main hand elsewhere. I'm also not trying to be a white knight but i'm also realistic and I know that every step of the previous relic was just as annoying, hard, grindy, and bad in previous patches at their launch. Yes things got easier to clear, obtain and were nerfed... but when they first came out? I don't think so.

Relic is something to obtain over time not have handed to you on the first day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

I see. I can't really share you or others pain because I have 0 interest in relics. I MAY do the ARR relic up to zeta but otherwise that I'm good. Animas arent really that good anyway unfortunately.. My main is WHM, I saw the WHM canes and they look.. Shiny but the staffs are kinda ugly..

---

See, I'm quite the opposite. I have all of the 2.0 relics, because hoarding and achievement whoring. I won't be touching any 3.0 relics for my alt classes until this crap gets nerfed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

P.s: How do you edit your comments/threads? I cant seem to do it on mobile.

---

That's because you can't on mobile. Just another fun quirk of the forums...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Eh? People are complaining that is super long and by what Ive seen it does seem like hard work. Ive heard you need all beast tribes but ixali to rank 3 (correct me if im wrong) for special mats and need up to 50k law

---

It's long, yes, but there's nothing difficult about it other than slogging through the grind. Like I said before, defeating Titan used to actually be difficult, meaning that people who had relics early were expected to be at least somewhat capable. The most difficult content you do for the 3.0 relic isn't even level capped content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

its relic.. it's always been grindy and taken weeks/months to finish steps

---

Not true. The base relic in 2.0 required a pittance of tomes and zero RNG. It could be completed as soon as you could kill Titan. Getting the +1 (Zenith) required 3 weeks of tomes, but that's barely even a grind and certainly nothing on the scale that we get now.

I'm just mad that this quest line was very lazy on their part. Really we waited months for something they threw together in a few weeks. The first models of the relic is the esoteric models. Mindless grinding I expected but Damn how lazy can you be? I have to look at the exact same model of a weapon I already have but a lower ilvl. How people can defend is questionable to me. If they didn't push this back so many times for such underwhelming content then less people would probably be upset. Not only are they not coming up with new content, now they have stopped creating new items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

P.s: How do you edit your comments/threads? I cant seem to do it on mobile.

---

Does your phone have a "view desktop verison"? If so can switch to that to edit your posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Oh and lastly, I love how people are unsubbing because of relics. I dont know what they expected really..

---

Can people please stop using this line as if it excuses SE from being lazy developers? Is it too much to ask a developer, who I might add helped to revive 1.0 from the grave, and has been responsible for many great innovations over the years, to actually think about what they add instead of throwing in mindless grinds?

Anyone who can't see why people are complaining are blatantly blinkered to the obvious. This isn't a one-patch complaint. This is a multi-patch complaint. We've had the same thing in every single update since Heavensward. Heck, Heavensward itself didn't really offer anything particularly new in terms of mechanics. Just new zones to fight across, and a continuation of the story. Flight is about the only real 'new' mechanic we've had aside from mini games, and that doesn't really change much since there's little reason to revisit the zones aside from gathering.

Can we all at least agree that this isn't just something people decided overnight? This is something which has been growing and festering for a while, and people are really getting fed up of being offered the same thing over and over again. Gear is stale, with only item levels to distinguish between shiny sword one and shiny sword two. Sort that problem out, and they'd have already breathed a huge new lease of life into a steadily ageing game.

tl;dr: This problem has been around for ages, and it's only getting worse with each update. It's not new.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

Relic is something to obtain over time not have handed to you on the first day.

---

Yes and no one argues that they just hand it to you.

But what is the point of a weapon that takes so long to get that by the time you managed to complete it the item level it provides is already outdated?
Good items are only good if you manage to get them early enough to they can be of actual use.

Everything beyond that is glamor only and THIS kind of grind for a glamor? I think not.

Also the quest is WAY beyond uninspired and boring. Feels like some intern slapped it together during lunch break.
And FFS what's with the "run 2.x content again lul" thing?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

snip

---

They expected what Yoshi-P said, which was that it would not be the same as Zodiac Relic. It's the EXACT same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Eh? People are complaining that is super long and by what Ive seen it does seem like hard work. Ive heard you need all beast tribes but ixali to rank 3 (correct me if im wrong) for special mats and need up to 50k law

---

You have to be tone deaf to think that is what people are complaining about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

You have to be tone deaf to think that is what people are complaining about.

---

It definitely sounds like they wanted instant gratification to me.

How this forum reacts some times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=280yPTyei0U

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I would have liked something that required actual skill instead of just a grind.

---

Then get the Alex Savage weapon instead..? :x
Relics were always meant - as stated by the dev team themselves - as something the average player could get if he just put in the time and effort, while raid weapons were for those who considered themselves good enough to get through the challenge.
Requiring hard, challenging content to get the relic defeats the entire purpose the weapon was created for in the first place. That's why there was such an outrage back when that Titan EX clear was required, because for many that was a blockade on a pretty similar level as just going for Coil directly.
Also, keep in mind that a significant amount of players hasn't even finished Alex normal, so farming Tokens from there is somewhat of a challenge for them too; although I admit that the Alex farm is not obligatory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Eh? People are complaining that is super long and by what Ive seen it does seem like hard work. Ive heard you need all beast tribes but ixali to rank 3 (correct me if im wrong) for special mats and need up to 50k law

---

No, not exactly. Some people are complaining about how obscene the process is, however it doesn't solely lies with that. But if you actually go through some of the topics there are other factors that has caused this outrage and it has been mostly a domino effect from previous patches. I'm reading gamefaqs and reddit and if you are able to filter out those who are whining I'm sure you can see the bigger picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

Then get the Alex Savage weapon instead..? :x
snip

---

Not so sure about the time and effort thing anymore, at least the time part when it comes to smaller servers where people are going to have a hell of a time with specialty crafting. You can take care of some of this yourself, but you're still going to need a group of like minded players or a ton of gil to get it done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

Then get the Alex Savage weapon instead..? :x
Requiring hard, challenging content to get the relic defeats the entire purpose the weapon was created for in the first place. That's why there was such an outrage back when that Titan EX clear was required, because for many that was a blockade on a pretty similar level as just going for Coil directly.

---

Titan EX was not required for the initial 2.0 relic quests, it was only Titan HM. And most of the complaints about Titan HM at the time weren't about the difficulty of the encounter itself, rather they were about latency issues and lag.

EDIT: And Titan HM was in no way comparable to Turn 5 during 2.0. Suggesting that they were "a blockade on a pretty similar level" is a pretty big stretch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

Then get the Alex Savage weapon instead..? :x
Relics were always meant - as stated by the dev team themselves - as something the average player could get if he just put in the time and effort, while raid weapons were for those who considered themselves good enough to get through the challenge.
Requiring hard, challenging content to get the relic defeats the entire purpose the weapon was created for in the first place. That's why there was such an outrage back when that Titan EX clear was required, because for many that was a blockade on a pretty similar level as just going for Coil directly.
Also, keep in mind that a significant amount of players hasn't even finished Alex normal, so farming Tokens from there is somewhat of a challenge for them too; although I admit that the Alex farm is not obligatory.

---

Something like 80% of the level 60 HW player-base that has finished the MSQ has finished Alex Normal.

But, as with this entire topic, keep exaggerating stuff and projecting onto that strawman.

I would like to start off by saying I love a good grind. I don't mind spending 2 to 6 months of grinding for something. But what I don't like is having to spend months on mind numbing content such as fates or what ever just to get said item.

The devs started out right in 2.0 on how you got the i80 relic. At that time it was kinda tough but it was a Boat Load of fun. The steps after the i90 relic almost made me quit the game...

3.0 was suppose to be a game changer. The devs should have took down their safety nets and took a freaken chance and made something new. Most of us waited over 5 months for this new relic. And after seeing how mind numbing the FIRST STEP is makes kinda go "huh" wtf is this SE?

Here is what I would have done differently:

I was hoping we would need to do certain quests that kinda followed what the 1 quest did for the 3 towers, you know the quest that allowed you to get materials that upgraded Poetic gear... but instead we would have to run certain dungeons, and perhaps the 24 person raids to get certain items but in this case crystals and mats to create the 3.0 weapon.

Once we get the i170 weapon we then move on to other objectives like running 10 fates in each of the new areas to obsorb the aither souls to strengthen the weapon to i180.

For the 3rd step we would need to farm ALL primals (at least 3 times) to gather certain mats (non-tradable) that are needed for the black smith to enhance the weapon even further by encasing the trapped soul aither (primals are the perfect choice for this because they hold aither in them but the question is how? this would have been a good way to answer that question).

Then finally we would need to farm coils 1 - 13 a few times (unsynced of course) to retrieve certain artifacts that will help magnify the power of the trapped aither souls and of course change the entire look of the weapon.

Then of course I would start on NEW CONTENT specifically for the 3.0 relic for 3.2.... Not only would this take a while to do but it would be a heck of a lot better than doing HOURSSSSSSSSSSSSS of fates and boring beast tribe quests. And hey it might just make players better in the process because coils 9 - 13 are no joke.

My FC and I are still very active and still enjoying the game. No one is unhappy.

Having to farm coil was never going to happen, you know that since a fair number still hasn't cleared Second Coil. That doesn't mean they could just flake out with what they're doing right now, though. The least they could have done was something like the primals of Relic 2.0 again, yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

Something like 80% of the level 60 HW player-base that has finished the MSQ has finished Alex Normal.
But, as with this entire topic, keep exaggerating stuff and projecting onto that strawman.

---

I didn't exaggerate anything, you were the one who brought numbers into it, I merely said "a significant amount". And even if 80% were right, that would mean 20% of the people haven't cleared it yet. I'd consider that a significant amount.
But I'm not gonna continue to split hairs over stupid stuff like this. Your only purpose in this thread is to demean me which means you are exactly the type of person which made me start the thread in the first place - full of toxicity and negativity and without anything constructive to say.
Luckily, I have already seen a great amount of wonderful answers from all sides, especially lots of people who had a differing opinion from mine but were able to put it into calm words and clear argumentations, so I feel comforted knowing that not everyone has lost their minds completely :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

You have to be tone deaf to think that is what people are complaining about.

---

Never knew I actually hear what youre typing, but okay. Either way, the salt from the forums is kinda funny. I feel bad to those who arent rude, however since this has no affect on me I enjoy the show of others crying c:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

It definitely sounds like they wanted instant gratification to me.

---

*Spongebob laughter* Either way I'm not unsubbing because of one patch tho

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

even going so far as to accuse the devs of lying and going back on their promises - which they didn't, at least not in this case -

---

But... they explicitly did just that.

"The Zodiac questline didn't accurately reflect the time put in to your weapon. Next Relic/Upgrade weapon will be made so that time invested=power."
"Learned from 2.0 Relic."

-> Months worth of grind for a weapon that will likely be outclassed on 3.2 release. Not to mention, hours/days of grind, none of which increase power at all, or accurately reflect time spent.
-> Proceeds to remove the ability to customize relic. Why? Because apparently being on step one means we don't deserve something we know we could have. Gotta reset the good ole' playing field right?
-> Literally does nothing to evolve the quest whatsoever. Literally a carbon copy of previous relic.

Live-letters have talked about this tons of times in the past. Relics have been hot-topics more than once, and almost every time they mention having learned something about their community not liking a part of it, and how they'll take that into consideration. Or how this or that design philosophy should be applied for the 'next' (now current) relic weapon.


So yes, they did lie to people. Not only that, they don't need to state anything or lie, in order for the playerbase to be angry. The fact that they're literally, point for point, copying 2.0 in almost every conceivable way is enough. We aren't worth the hassle of creativity, it seems. Also, the cherry on the top is the sheer amount of tedium, and the fact that it was delayed, when these weapons are already on borrowed time.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybanc...f/5f1259c8.png

8/9 Lodestone survey: 285378 players in possession of the Midgardsormr mount
9/9 SE released Eorzea Census: 230500 players cleared A4

~81% clear rate.

It might be higher or lower now ~3-4 months later. I think the safer wager is that it's higher.

So I provide actual real data instead of empty conjecture and yet I'm the one that's not productive? Okay.

But, as many others have pointed out, typing this is wasted energy. People like you see and believe what they want to. I prefer actual facts and yet that means I'm toxic and negative.

Stay classy, OF White Knights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Never knew I actually hear what youre typing, but okay. Either way, the salt from the forums is kinda funny. I feel bad to those who arent rude, however since this has no affect on me I enjoy the show of others crying c:

---

http://english.stackexchange.com/que...g-of-tone-deaf

I didn't think it was something that would need explaining. To translate the statement for you, I said "you have to possess an inability to understand the situation to think that is what people are complaining about."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

Your only purpose in this thread is to demean me which means you are exactly the type of person which made me start the thread in the first place - full of toxicity and negativity and without anything constructive to say.

---

You mean like how you called someone a blatant liar because you didn't agree with what they said? Nobody is demeaning you. Unless you consider disagreeing with you or challenging what you say to be demeaning, which is ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybanc...f/5f1259c8.png

8/9 Lodestone survey: 285378 players in possession of the Midgardsormr mount
9/9 SE released Eorzea Census: 230500 players cleared A4

~81% clear rate.

It might be higher or lower now 4+ months later. I think the safer wager is that it's higher.

So I provide actual real data instead of empty conjecture and yet I'm the one that's not productive? Okay.

But, as many others have pointed out, typing this is wasted energy. People like you see and believe what they want to. I prefer actual facts and yet that means I'm toxic and negative.

Stay classy, OF White Knights.

---

*pats* We both know that they just don't want to accept facts; facts have no opinion, and can't be argued with, so they argue with the one providing the facts. I can't say I blame them, though I do pity them; people come on FF to escape reality, so when ugly reality comes barging into their fantasy, people tend to get upset :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

Then get the Alex Savage weapon instead..? :x

---

You know that there are levels of skill in between "mouth breather" and "clearing A4S," right? I realize almost nothing in FFXIV points to the existence of these levels, but I assure you they exist.