Not the time to charge, cya in 2013...

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Originally Posted by December

I respectfully disagree that the game is "solid". It's obviously not solid, or else we wouldn't be getting this year-long content overall plan presented to us to keep us playing. I'm pretty sure Yoshi admitting that the game is 50% complete is proof enough that he agree it isn't solid as well. I'm also aware that Yoshi has nothing to do with the sub's being enforced upon the players.

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come back when you have played some new content. based on your experience, your opinion is all but irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by December

I respectfully disagree that the game is "solid". It's obviously not solid, or else we wouldn't be getting this year-long content overall plan presented to us to keep us playing. I'm pretty sure Yoshi admitting that the game is 50% complete is proof enough that he agree it isn't solid as well. I'm also aware that Yoshi has nothing to do with the sub's being enforced upon the players.

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What you agree or disagree with is irrelevant. MMORPG developers commonly provide updates and previews on their long term plans. This doesn't make a game less solid. I and many others find the game enjoyable and solid, and we're going to pay for a product we're provided.

The fact that you're here trying to persuade other people not to casts a shadow of doubt on your motives.

Besides, your level clearly shows that you have no element or experience to base your "disagreement" on.

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Originally Posted by December

I dont want to quit. I am not trying to steer people away from the game. I wish the game was full enough to really enjoy the community and party play. I am a real fan of the game I really am. I really want it to succeed. I really want more games like FFXI, EverQuest, and now FFXIV to be competitive on the market.

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If you use a product provided by a company, you pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it, you don't have any right to demand to use it.

It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

come back when you have played some new content. based on your experience, your opinion is all but irrelevant.

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Just because I haven't experienced high level content (the little that there is anyway) doesn't make my point irrelevant. Don't be such an elitist and play the "gtfo noob" mentality. This is bigger than that. This is about charging people for game that is "50%" done.

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Originally Posted by December

Just because I haven't experienced high level content (the little that there is anyway) doesn't make my point irrelevant. Don't be such an elitist and play the "gtfo noob" mentality. This is bigger than that. This is about charging people for game that is "50%" done.

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Not having experienced high level content means that your vision on the current state of the game is very limited. That's all there's to it.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Not having experienced high level content means that your vision on the current state of the game is very limited. That's all there's to it.

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Hammer ====> Nail

Having multiple 50s, I can tell you that the Beastmen Strongholds, Dungeons, NMs, and search for Materia are all quite fun. None of those are things December has experienced at all. He'd even get his ass handed to him in one of he encampments added in 1.18. Need I say more?

I wouldn't say it's very limited. It may be limited, but not very. I'm aware that there still is no way to search, still no barely any in game community (no one talks outside of LS, rarely). There still is no mail system, no way to organize link shells, the UI still is overly cumbersome by today's standards. The server - client lag is mostly horrendous. And that's just some of the basics that still are not corrected.

can i has your stuff?

Just for clarification, I have not leveled up on purpose. It is my choice not to experience the content until it is actually fixed. i do not want to spend a year leveling every job to 50, when Im not even sure theses jobs are going to exist next year. I will play the game when it's actually good, and ready. If you don't respect that then fine. I just don't want to have already "beaten" the game when it officially relaunches.

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Originally Posted by December

And yes, they do owe me. THEY OWE ME A $50 GAME. A game that is WORTH $50. Or have you forgotten that you BOUGHT a BETA? And now you feel it's right to charge for it?

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Someone owes you a $5 keyboard that doesn't randomly engage caps lock.

The game didn't come with a money back guarantee that you would like it. It's been out for a year, and you haven't paid a dime in subscription fees. If you're still around after all that, you got $50 worth. And if you don't think you have, then too bad - you took a chance buying something and it didn't work out. Don't want to pay the subscription fee? Fine, don't. You don't need to make a thread whining about it.

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Originally Posted by December

It's LOGICAL to assume that most people won't want to pay for a game that's not even fucking finished.

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No MMO is ever finished, and those people can go away. Or they can complain on the forums, trying to convince everyone else that they shouldn't pay either. I'd prefer the former. If this game isn't worth your $50 yet, then why do you want to continue to play for free? Get out, and come back when your this game lives up to your self-entitlement.

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Originally Posted by December

It is my choice not to experience the content until it is actually fixed.

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Then don't complain about being charged when you don't want to play anyway...

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Originally Posted by December

I wouldn't say it's very limited. It may be limited, but not very. I'm aware that there still is no way to search, still no barely any in game community (no one talks outside of LS, rarely). There still is no mail system, no way to organize link shells, the UI still is overly cumbersome by today's standards. The server - client lag is mostly horrendous. And that's just some of the basics that still are not corrected.

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and they have outlined a path to fix 100% of the things you have mentioned. All of which are less important than what they have already done towards making the game fun. Let me say it again, the game is fun, but you haven't played enough to even attempt the better parts of the game.

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Originally Posted by December

Just for clarification, I have not leveled up on purpose. It is my choice not to experience the content until it is actually fixed. i do not want to spend a year leveling every job to 50, when Im not even sure theses jobs are going to exist next year. I will play the game when it's actually good, and ready. If you don't respect that then fine. I just don't want to have already "beaten" the game when it officially relaunches.

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The problem is that your whole reason for being here and absolutely argumentative is that you're not respecting people's opinion that this game is worth paying for. You're entirely free to quit if you don't want to pay, but trying to impose that attitude on other is in poor taste.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

trying to impose that attitude on other is in poor taste.

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which is why I'll stay in this thread, white knighting my ass off, until I am able to log back into the game. lol


Not directed towards you Ab: if you don't like the game fine, but don't tell me it's shit when you have barely played it, your opinion, while you are entitled to it, is baseless.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Wow, seriously disgusted by all the BYE comments. OP youre absolutely correct. Molly Sierra Nixon and to everyone saying 'dont let tho door hit yourself on the way out', go choke on a weiner.

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hey, what can I say. I'm excited that the forums will be (mostly) troll free in a month or so. Can you blame me? oh wait, you're one of those trolls...

i know a lot about the game from reading patch updates and player feedback here on the forums. Just because i don't experience it first hand does not make my point baseless.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

hey, what can I say. I'm excited that the forums will be (mostly) troll free in a month or so. Can you blame me? oh wait, you're one of those trolls...

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So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

EDIT: More to the point, anyone who complains is a troll? You don't know what a troll even is.

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Originally Posted by December

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

EDIT: More to the point, anyone who complains is a troll? You don't know what a troll even is.

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no, those who troll are trolls

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Originally Posted by wikipedia

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

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sound familiar? it should. The OP fits the build as well, but if you must know, I was referring to a post yesterday from good ole Mr. Daniels here.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

no, those who troll are trolls

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By definition:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".

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Originally Posted by December

anyone who complains is a troll?

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Anyone who complains that a game isn't worth their money while saying they should be able to continue to play for free (or in this case.. not actually play, but still have a free account).. is a troll.

Anyone who complains about content they haven't experienced and uses it for the reason above.. is a troll.

Anyone who says they're being called a troll simply because they disagree with someone, when they're doing the two things above.. is a troll.

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Originally Posted by December

By definition:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".

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glad we agree then troll.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Anyone who complains that a game isn't worth their money while saying they should be able to continue to play for free.. is a troll.

Anyone who complains about content they haven't experienced and uses it for the reason above.. is a troll.

Anyone who says they're being called a troll simply because they disagree with someone, when they're doing the two things above.. is a troll.

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You lost me. First two points are wrong by definition anyway. I'm not a troll. I'm not even really playing the game for free. I did pay for it. I'm not paying to play a beta, and neither will a lot of people. bottom line is, it's going to split the community in half. The little support that SE does get from us who initially bought the game is about to drop dramatically. It is going to hurt the game's future in the end.

I wasn't going to add to the storm of tongue-flaps regarding this situation.

However, whilst reading these topics since the announcement I keep seeing people say that once the subscriptions start they'll be pleased because the complainers will leave. How? I don't see how a monthly fee is suddenly going to deter that from happening.

If anything we'll probably see more complaining because A: The people who are playing and complaining while it is free will devote there time fully to just complaining. B: The people paying will get upset about something in the coming months, then come here and complain because there is a problem, its not fixed in a hasty manner, and now they're paying!

Can someone help me out here? lol

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

glad we agree then troll.

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Mk. Why dont you quote the complete sentence? Not just the intent. Are you really that dense?

[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response

It's simple, if you don't log into the game in X number of days, you can't post on the forums. If you don't pay the sub when it starts you can't log into the game. Therefore if you don't pay the sub you can't post on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Ayaseth

I wasn't going to add to the storm of tongue-flaps regarding this situation.

However, whilst reading these topics since the announcement I keep seeing people say that once the subscriptions start they'll be pleased because the complainers will leave. How? I don't see how a monthly fee is suddenly going to deter that from happening.

If anything we'll probably see more complaining because A: The people who are playing and complaining while it is free will devote there time fully to just complaining. B: The people paying will get upset about something in the coming months, then come here and complain because there is a problem, its not fixed in a hasty manner, and now they're paying!

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Quoted for truth. Like I said before, you will never get this utopia of no complainers.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

It's simple, if you don't log into the game in X number of days, you can't post on the forums. If you don't pay the sub when it starts you can't log into the game. Therefore if you don't pay the sub you can't post on the forums.

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Oh ok, I see- Thanks.

But I've not seen anything to solidify that this is the case. Any source that says that's the case?

I was under the impression that you could still post on the forums regardless of subscription status >.> Never seen a game lock you out of forum because you canceled subscription.

Nah nah nah nah
Nah nah nah nah
Hey hey hey
Goodbye!

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Originally Posted by December

You lost me.

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That is evident by the rest of your post.

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Originally Posted by December

I'm not even really playing the game for free. I did pay for it.

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Which is why it was carefully worded as "continue to play the game". Subscription fees were supposed to be implemented a year ago, regardless of how much you liked the game. Again, no money back guarantee - your opinion of the game doesn't change the price.

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Originally Posted by December

I'm not paying to play a beta, and neither will a lot of people.
It is going to hurt the game's future in the end.

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People who want to support the game will pay - for the first time since initial purchase, this game will be generating income for SE.

People who complain that it's still a beta and not worth paying for won't play.

I'd say it's the best thing to happen to the future of the game.

Once again, you don't even want to play the game, so stop bitching about not being able to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

hey, what can I say. I'm excited that the forums will be (mostly) troll free in a month or so. Can you blame me? oh wait, you're one of those trolls...

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Takes one to know one darling.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Once again, you don't even want to play the game, so stop bitching about not being able to play the game.

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Actually I do want to play the game. I never said I didn't, and neither did you. So whats with this once again crap? I would like to continue to play the game, give feedback, see how the updates directly effect gameplay, etc. But I wont pay to do so.

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Originally Posted by Ayaseth

If anything we'll probably see more complaining

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You are conflating criticism with whining. Allow me to demonstrate the difference...

Criticism:

X should be fixed.
I don't like Y.
It would be better if Z.

Whining:

OMG this game is still just beta no one will want to pay SE is stupid I'm leaving


The first is constructive and welcomed, even if it is sometimes put in a less-than-ideal manner. The second is pointless, self-entitled nonsense. And that usually comes from people who won't pay. Now, even if you can post while not subscribed to the game.. you'll be even less relevant because you can't play the current version of the game. I don't want someone posting about how they hated the game when they played it months ago, so I hope they're not allowed to post.. or at least show a little flag on their posts, so we can choose who to ignore more easily.

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Takes one to know one darling.

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Umm . .. not really. Not in this case.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

You are conflating criticism with whining. Allow me to demonstrate the difference...

Criticism:

X should be fixed.
I don't like Y.
It would be better if Z.

Whining:

OMG this game is still just beta no one will want to pay SE is stupid I'm leaving


The first is constructive and welcomed, even if it is sometimes put in a less-than-ideal manner. The second is pointless, self-entitled nonsense. And that usually comes from people who won't pay. Now, even if you can post while not subscribed to the game.. you'll be even less relevant because you can't play the current version of the game. I don't want someone posting about how they hated the game when they played it months ago, so I hope they're not allowed to post.. or at least show a little flag on their posts, so we can choose who to ignore more easily.

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Yea, that is true..and I agree with your final words.

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Originally Posted by December

Actually I do want to play the game. I never said I didn't, and neither did you. So whats with this once again crap?

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Oh, come on, you're gonna make me go a few pages back just to quote you? Ugh...

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Originally Posted by December

It is my choice not to experience the content until it is actually fixed.

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If you're not experiencing the content how are you going to provide feedback? This is the entire crux of every response I've posted here. You say that you don't need to experience the content firsthand to know how it is. Well guess what, don't pay the subscription fee, don't play the game, and you can still read what everyone else thinks of the game, and you'll be doing just what you're doing now. It's no different than what you're allegedly doing now, so shut up about not being able to log on and do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

glad we agree then troll.

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If anyone's trolling in this thread, it's the idiots doing nothing but posting "don't let the door hit you hurr hurr". The OP is one of few people in this damn thread that is actually making worthwhile posts.

you got me on a technicality but I believe my point still stands. I can still log on and provide feedback without experienceing highlevel content. I should have specified in my earlier post that I was talking about high level and specific content.

These threads are all ridiculous.. OP is either just cheap or trolling, much like a lot of other complainers around here about P2P. This game was always meant to be P2P.. and if it had launched in the state it currently is in, it never would have been free beyond the initial first month. The whiners have no argument since SE is free to starting charging whenever they want.

Honestly, I think SE will be happy to see some of this population go.. A lot of that crowd are the same people who have barely played the game yet love to post all sorts of "XIV still sucks!!" all across the net. Good riddance, can't wait till they lock you out of this forum at least.

Matter fact.... DEV's I think it's safe to say that the OP can not justify paying 50 cents/day for a game that you've spent 8+ hours/day working on.. feel free to go ahead and lock out that account a little early.. promise I won't say a word!! :)

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Oh, come on, you're gonna make me go a few pages back just to quote you? Ugh...



If you're not experiencing the content how are you going to provide feedback? This is the entire crux of every response I've posted here. You say that you don't need to experience the content firsthand to know how it is. Well guess what, don't pay the subscription fee, don't play the game, and you can still read what everyone else thinks of the game, and you'll be doing just what you're doing now. It's no different than what you're allegedly doing now, so shut up about not being able to log on and do nothing.

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you got me on a technicality but I believe my point still stands. I can still log on and provide feedback without experienceing highlevel content. I should have specified in my earlier post that I was talking about high level and specific content.

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Originally Posted by December

I don't think they have any right to charge us to play a beta.

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Huh?

It is their right to charge you and it is your right to choose whether to pay. If you don't pay, then it will be their right to deny you access to content and service they are providing you.

Yes, as long as you pay their subscription fee.