So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?

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Originally Posted by Ladon

What exactly are you expecting here? What if the 'official response' is simply that the design team likes to design female gear over male gear? Are you just going to whine about it being 2015 and some nonsense about equality in a virtual world?

Your subscription affords you the same content as everyone else. There are no restrictions placed on you about what gender you play in the game other than YOUR choices. People around here really need to stop acting like it is the developers that are making these choices for you.

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Even though it would suck big time, I would deeply respect the developers more if they came in here and flat out told us that they'd rather be designing glamour gear for women than they would for men. It's already blatantly obvious that they do.

I don't believe they have the fortitude to do so, however.

I'm as salty as the ocean over the lack of male glamors and blatant female favoritism. Am I a minority? Yes, I accept that. Does that mean I'll stop trying to get more fair glamour options? No. A thousand times no. If I stop talking about it, if I stop asking about it, if I stop caring about it enough to get it is when I stop playing the game.

For me, glamours are one of the biggest things keeping me interested. Should I have to be female to have the same number of options? No. And I shouldn't have to change my gender to have access to them.

If they are going to favor one gender over the other, which I assume is because of time and cost, then I propose SE take it up a step further to save even more money and time. Make glamour gear for only female Miqo'te. So much time and money changing glamour to fit females of every race can be better spent somewhere else. In the 2015 census both Hyur and Miqo'te are the majority of the population, so why make glamour for all the races? Also since someone pointed out bots favoring Hyur (which must actually be drastic enough to effect the arguement), it puts Miqo'te ahead of the pack.

No need to thank me SE, I'm 100% positive that the majority of the community loves this idea. More so if that allows enough money for the dev team to dye future healer raid gear something other then white. But not many people play healers...wait a minute...

i don't like minfilia and is going to be annoying(for me) see all females trying to look like her at least give it to males so it doesn't annoys me that much xD! males always can make is werk!;)
aside from that they should add lightning and snow outfits/hairstyleT-T for those who weren't there

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Originally Posted by Ulfhade

I'm as salty as the ocean over the lack of male glamors and blatant female favoritism. Am I a minority? Yes, I accept that. Does that mean I'll stop trying to get more fair glamour options? No. A thousand times no. If I stop talking about it, if I stop asking about it, if I stop caring about it enough to get it is when I stop playing the game.

For me, glamours are one of the biggest things keeping me interested. Should I have to be female to have the same number of options? No. And I shouldn't have to change my gender to have access to them.

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You are not alone in this.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Ya, but the question is are we gettin it!? AND ITS THE HAIR...ITS THAT GLORIOUS CLASSIC LENGTH HAIRRRRR who cares about the outfit lol.

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Clips for days~
She could have it because she wore the one gear. You'd also have to turn weapons (that are on your back) off.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Clips for days~
She could have it because she wore the one gear. You'd also have to turn weapons (that are on your back) off.

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But this brings an interesting point... couldn't at least the hair be unisex? I am not entirely sure, but maybe it could pass as young male anime hero kind of hair style.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

But this brings an interesting point... couldn't at least the hair be unisex? I am not entirely sure, but maybe it could pass as young male anime hero kind of hair style.

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No, hair like Iceheart's definitely is too long to be suitable for men.

Sephiroth.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Zojha

No, hair like Iceheart's definitely is too long to be suitable for men.

Sephiroth.jpeg

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My bad I was thinking about Minfilia's hair :)

But Iceheart's hair is totally death metal manly like.

I only hope the Minnie outfit is in individual pieces. I love the open-front skirt, but not much else.

Oh, and dyeable please.

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Originally Posted by Ulfhade

I'm as salty as the ocean over the lack of male glamors and blatant female favoritism. Am I a minority? Yes, I accept that. Does that mean I'll stop trying to get more fair glamour options? No. A thousand times no. If I stop talking about it, if I stop asking about it, if I stop caring about it enough to get it is when I stop playing the game.

For me, glamours are one of the biggest things keeping me interested. Should I have to be female to have the same number of options? No. And I shouldn't have to change my gender to have access to them.

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I think what needs to be considered though are the following:

- Are you looking at this purely from numbers or from what is actually something you'd be interested in? Dressing up like Minfillia as a male character, for example. I'd probably do that for the shits and giggles.
- What exactly constitutes "male" glamour that doesn't already exist? More bucket armor isn't exactly unique to the game. Nor do those things scream MALE (BOYS) ONLY!

Obviously no one cares about those who play male characters, and no, I would not change my character's gender just so I could have access to some of the female glamours. I chose him for a reason. I, too wish there were more male glamours, but I'll make do with what we have currently and hopefully one day we get something that I would want. There isn't much at the moment that I even want for mine and we didn't even get pants for the seasonal outfit, which I find very dumb. I wouldn't mind some bunny ears for the males, because I personally think mine would look nice with it. The only "bunny ears" we get is the Spriggan Cap, and both males and females can wear that. Though I, too don't agree that the Minfllia oufit shouldn't be in MogStation, but what can we do? And not sure why we didn't get pants for the Halloween gearset.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I think what needs to be considered though are the following:

- Are you looking at this purely from numbers or from what is actually something you'd be interested in? Dressing up like Minfillia as a male character, for example. I'd probably do that for the shits and giggles.
- What exactly constitutes "male" glamour that doesn't already exist? More bucket armor isn't exactly unique to the game. Nor do those things scream MALE (BOYS) ONLY!

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Honestly, I'm looking at this as purely numbers. I don't find the Gold Saucer male only set very attractive, but its male only (Only the Oasis and Riviera though, the Gambler is of course unisex) as a counter to their female only sets (all three are female only), and I find the two fair. Third one, not at all. While I'd prefer to have both gender options as unisex, I accept a male only and female only option. That's fair.

For male glamours, I mean items that are male only such as the Bohemian set, Oasis set, ect. Not anything that is masculine or feminine, but equipable to male characters.

I have a theory for why there's an alarming imbalance of Female to Male gender-locked glamour sets, here's that theory:





I regret nothiiiiiiiiiiing!
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...253c15a906.jpg



...And it happens basically every new glamour patch....

why is their always people who say the whole issue is people want males to wear dresses? (which by the way are already in game)
its more about having just as many options as players who role as females.

What I find fascinating is how *quickly* this became a big issue (apparently). That seems to happen any time a male population isn't favored or is even the most miniscule bit less favored. Funny how that works.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

What I find fascinating is how *quickly* this became a big issue (apparently). That seems to happen any time a male population isn't favored or is even the most miniscule bit less favored. Funny how that works.

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People have been complaining about this on and off for months. It just so happens that they've delivered a double whammy of disappointments in the last few weeks which have brought the matter to a head - we have about 16 extra female-biased items in the game now and they effectively announced that would rise to at least 25 in 3.1, going by the pictures and skipping the hair. Of course we're upset about that. Keeping quiet hasn't helped bring the matter to their attention, evidently.

And uh, if you're implying something about real life sexism, please remember that character gender and real life gender are not necessarily the same thing. If anything, this entire problem is caused by good old fashioned male-orientated fan service driving the designers to make lots of cute, sexy costumes for girls to wear (as depicted in the comic above). Several of the threads have been made by female gamers who want equal opportunity fan service for their male characters; it's not very fair to keep that from them just because of the way things work in the real world, is it?

For everyone who's talking about pure numbers, here's the Eorzea Census 2015 of Gender Distribution:

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/a...e911869d16.png

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e8ff1bcf34c5ae

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And uh, if you're implying something about real life sexism, please remember that character gender and real life gender

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Yeah, the ratio in most combat-oriented MMOs like Final Fantasy, Everquest, World of Warcraft, is somewhere between 75/25 or 82/18 male/female. Male players just seem to have less of an issue playing female characters than the reverse, for some reason. It's almost as if the "this world favors men all the time" feminist trope is actually not true for pretty much most of relevant life. It could be true for the 1% of wall street people who try to make the poor poorer, but I'm not with them to know if they treat their males like kings and their females like paupers.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

What I find fascinating is how *quickly* this became a big issue (apparently). That seems to happen any time a male population isn't favored or is even the most miniscule bit less favored. Funny how that works.

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Let's not look for sexism where there is none. Especially considering you don't have to actually be the sex of the character you're playing in this game.

Besides, every aspect of this game *quickly* becomes an issue, lol.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

What I find fascinating is how *quickly* this became a big issue (apparently). That seems to happen any time a male population isn't favored or is even the most miniscule bit less favored. Funny how that works.

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Considering you can be either gender in this game, your attempt at making this about sexism is a poor play.

Personally I think they should let Male characters wear female glamours if they want. If someone wants to wear fishnet stockings and bunny ears on their male Roe more power to them. If females can wear male gear then why not the reverse. Having said that there is a few male only pieces I'd love to have access to. Finding a top to fit the WHM glamour Im going for has been difficult and theirs a male piece which would have worked perfectly...

I do want to point out something here about the cash shop. People keep saying 'cash shop items should be available in game'. The thing is, most items on the cash shop which aren't former event items are probably specifically developed for the cash shop and the resources are probably allocated to producing those items based on the projected return on investment. That would mean that if they weren't in the cash shop they wouldn't be developed at all.

Any development costs money and the when looking for additional funds to do new projects the money has to come from somewhere. Without the cash shop or a sub increase their would be less resources to develop these things.

My issues with Cash Shops has always been with if the stuff in game was lacking in quantity while the cash shop was getting updates. That has never been the case for me in FF14. 3.1 will have, at the very minimum, 2 new sets for DoM/DoW, at least 3 new hairstyles for each gender, a new glamour set at the Gold Saucer, plus more glamour sets in the exploratory islands. Plus at least 2 new weapon sets counting the relics.

For me, having a couple of glamour sets in the Cash shop when we are getting all that in game if fine for me. Its not like they aren't giving me plenty for my sub.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

What I find fascinating is how *quickly* this became a big issue (apparently). That seems to happen any time a male population isn't favored or is even the most miniscule bit less favored. Funny how that works.

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What I find fascinating is that you're implying sexism here when many of the people playing male characters are actually females, and of course the reverse applies. I'm a 38 year old woman playing this game as a hulking dragonman. I've been a male Miqo'te and a female Miqo'te but this is my current incarnation, and I want to have unique glamours to look fabulous in too. It doesn't seem like much to ask.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

For everyone who's talking about pure numbers, here's the Eorzea Census 2015 of Gender Distribution:

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/a...e911869d16.png

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e8ff1bcf34c5ae

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Today we are going to learn some basic maths:

If NA has 1000 people and EU has 100 people

380 + 64 = 444 are female characters
620 + 36 = 656 are male characters

Conclusion: Percentages are useless without the raw numbers.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Today we are going to learn some basic maths:

If NA has 1000 people and EU has 100 people

380 + 64 = 444 are female characters
620 + 36 = 656 are male characters

Conclusion: Percentages are useless without the raw numbers.

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I wouldn't go so far as to say they are useless, they do give a good qualitative image of the population of both.

Even if most characters are females, it's probably because there are more clothing options for females. I bet there would be less females if there were a lot more male glamour options. I only play a female character because male glamours are lacking. :/

I really wish they'd do a male version of Minfilia's outfit. We have male-female versions of coatees and shawls and galerus, why can't we have a tube top/skirt for the men, too? It's just so unfair. Make it unisex!!

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Originally Posted by Elim

Even if most characters are females, it's probably because there are more clothing options for females. I bet there would be less females if there were a lot more male glamour options. I only play a female character because male glamours are lacking. :/

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I don't know. A lot of Male Players across multiple MMOs and even single player games will opt for a Female character for one reason or another. (usually the pervy kind, but not always.)

So I'm not sure that's as big a factor as "A lot of players play female, make female cash glamours, profit". Not all that unlike Retainer Scalping on Hardcore Crafters. Because the only ones getting "Taken Advantage of" by the cash shop are a few groups of players rather than other games I've played where The Cash Shop Items effectively make you invincible. So all and all, be glad those "Sexy Glamours" <Rolls Eyes> don't have game braking stat advantages.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Well the thing is, a female wearing a male outfit is generally accepted throughout the civilized world. On the other hand a male wearing a female outfit is not generally accepted (yet).

This creates the issue that most (pretty much all) "male" outfits become unisex, while most female outfits are female only.

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Pretty sure people understand the "why." Thats not the issue. Most of us here are saying "stop doing it that way."

Yeah, I love my catboy but eh, I mostly play for the glamour and for thinking of myself a real FF character. And females usually get all of this, and I'm inclined to be a female even though I dislike most of the races.

There's very little reason to make something male specific. Like, they'd still have made the riviera doublet even if they didn't make the call to make it male exclusive. You aren't getting more by making something male exclusive, it's just the people playing female getting less.

The only reason to make something exclusive is if it's showing a whole lot of chest. And even that can often be worked around with a few alterations, like the thavnairian bolero. They could easily have made that male exclusive, but...why? You don't have less options because they didn't.

Some players playing male characters wouldn't mind cross-dressing :T

I wouldn't (I already got my dream glamours... though a proper vest would be nice), but I know there are players who would.

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Originally Posted by RazeLandale

There's very little reason to make something male specific. Like, they'd still have made the riviera doublet even if they didn't make the call to make it male exclusive. You aren't getting more by making something male exclusive, it's just the people playing female getting less.

The only reason to make something exclusive is if it's showing a whole lot of chest. And even that can often be worked around with a few alterations, like the thavnairian bolero. They could easily have made that male exclusive, but...why? You don't have less options because they didn't.

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The reverse is also true. The female outfit that corresponds to the bolero could have been modified to work for male characters (Replace the top with more jewelry for the most part). We could have easily made that outfit unisex with only a few alterations but... why didn't they? Females have more because they didn't!

Notice how I spun your argument around very easily and used most of your own words? It's because your argument fell apart before you even said it. Men DO Have less because female exlusives exist. You either need to make ONE unisex outfit, or TWO gender locked outfits. Not One Unisex and one Female Locked. The riviera doublet is done right. An exampel of it done wrong in the same location is the bunny outfit, that could have easily been made to be a Chippendales style outfit on men. But they didn't.

I've noticed a few people trying to imply that the people upset about males getting fewer glamour items are angry because they are sexist (against women), and I have to point out why this is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Who benefits the most from female characters being given cute/sexy outfits to wear? Who are these cute/sexy outfits made to please? Male players. The devs, operating under the assumption that the majority of their player base are horny young men, are making items which they feel cater to those players and their interests.

Who would benefit from male characters being given cute/sexy outfits to wear? Female players, a demographic often ignored by game developers even as they claim they want our business but don't know how to please us, since their 'girl traps' baited with pink consoles and candy invariably fail. (Protip: All we ACTUALLY want is to be treated the same as male gamers. Eye candy is fine as long as we get some, too.).

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Originally Posted by RazeLandale

You aren't getting more by making something male exclusive, it's just the people playing female getting less.

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So then you agree that there should be no female exclusive gear, since that just means the people playing male characters are getting less?

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why? You don't have less options because they didn't.

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No, we have fewer options because they chose to make our set unisex and still give the females their exclusive set. Iin the Thavnarian set scenario, at least; In the CURRENT situation, with a new version of the bunny set and Minfillia's set being announced, we just have fewer options because someone at SE said screw the people who want to make their male characters look cute.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

the CURRENT situation, with a new version of the bunny set and Minfillia's set being announced, we just have fewer options because someone at SE said screw the people who want to make their male characters look cute.

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I'm hopeing they learn and do the new bunny suit right and do it like I mentioned above.

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Originally Posted by Lego3400

I'm hopeing they learn and do the new bunny suit right and do it like I mentioned above.

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Wouldn't hold my breath tbh. In any case, nobody even said anything about a new bunny suit as far as I'm concerned - they showed a picture of the floppy bunny ears is all, which a) was promised months ago, I think even before HW was released; b) is already worn at least by one NPC in the GS btw, so really not sure what took them so long (not sure if it's the same as I haven't seen the picture myself, but yeah); c) for all we know they either make that female-exclusive as well, or make it unisex and leave the original one untouched.

On the whole, what's funny is the fact that if the situation was reverse, and the male characters were favoured with both exclusive and unisex outfits, the girls (the actual girl players, but especially those also playing girl characters) would have been in a very loud s×××storm outrage, after the very first such occasion, over discrimination, sexism, whatnot - things that really aren't (or wouldn't be) there, but words which are baits, which make situations look worse than they are just to get more attention, because it would be oh-so-unfair and how would they dare anyway. So much so that SE would have had to take several steps back asap and probably issue a public apology too.
This way though? Everything's fine and dandy and we guys should just stfu and accept the situation that "isn't serious" at all and "just optional" anyway and "well we have a custom dress, but I would you please give us more because it's not perfect as it is"...

Yeah, sorry if I'm a bit overly dramatic, but seeing things on news sites as well as tumblr, I can't envision any other scenario if the girls would be getting treated like this. -_-

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

This way though? Everything's fine and dandy and we guys should just stfu and accept the situation that "isn't serious" at all and "just optional" anyway and "well we have a custom dress, but I would you please give us more because it's not perfect as it is"...

Yeah, sorry if I'm a bit overly dramatic, but seeing things on news sites as well as tumblr, I can't envision any other scenario if the girls would be getting shafted. -_-

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No, look, can we please stop equating this with real life sexism? It's sexism, sure, but since anyone can pick their character's gender you can't say "People are only angry because it's men affected!" or "If it was women, this would have caused a real problem by now!" because a sizeable number of those affected are openly women. All this stance is doing is dividing a group being discriminated against and making half of your own allies feel bad needlessly.

I think it's distracting to focus on something like that. There are so many reasons for wanting equality in costume options, and so many reasons people might play a gender which doesn't match their own. Perhaps they like looking at sexily-dressed guys (whatever their real gender). Perhaps they're afraid of the precedent it sets for race-locking and other limitations in future. Perhaps they want to play a male character but don't want to lose glamour options. Perhaps they're just kind and want fairness for everyone.

Conversely, some of the people with female characters who strongly oppose the idea of equality are openly dudes, a fact which continues to baffle me.

(It has also been pointed out by another poster - using a female character on the forums - that the new bunny costume is an entirely new set with dye options. So we're being cheated out of much more than just ears, again.)

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Originally Posted by Exosapien

Pretty sure people understand the "why." Thats not the issue. Most of us here are saying "stop doing it that way."

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You'll just have to get over the fact that it will always be that way, it's not generally accepted and thus they feel it's the same way in this game, remember only a small minority want cross dressing so don't expect it to ever come to stop "being that way" This is what most people fail to accept. i'm actually for more male styled outfits, but leave the "i want my guy to wear pretty miniskirts" out of it.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

You'll just have to get over the fact that it will always be that way, it's not generally accepted and thus they feel it's the same way in this game, remember only a small minority want cross dressing so don't expect it to ever come to stop "being that way" This is what most people fail to accept. i'm actually for more male styled outfits, but leave the "i want my guy to wear pretty miniskirts" out of it.

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Interestingly, none of the costumes in question are miniskirts (pretty or otherwise). I believe we covered this in a previous thread. So I take it you support this topic fully and you have our back in the campaign for an equal number of glamour options, right?

I don't believe any of us have to 'get over' anything, so I'll be continuing to campaign until we get a decisive official response.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Interestingly, none of the costumes in question are miniskirts (pretty or otherwise). I believe we covered this in a previous thread. So I take it you support this topic fully and you have our back in the campaign for an equal number of glamour options, right?

I don't believe any of us have to 'get over' anything, so I'll be continuing to campaign until we get a decisive official response.

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Actually yes i do, if males want more outfits more power to them, But female outfits fit females only for a reason, if that is your thing in real life that is your business but SEs knows cross dressing will never be accepted in this game. and understand why they do favor female outfits more.