Adventurer in Need in Roulette, do you think it needs to change up a bit?

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Originally Posted by Adire

But you do have a reason.

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I'm just going to reply this one more because I don't want to just repeat the same thing over and over and because I'm getting out of topic: the thread is about AiN and not about dungeons.

At any rate, the issue is that "the little help" you mention isn't working: how many times can you see the AiN not requiring a tank? Exactly. Maybe a healer now and then, but a dps? I'm not sure but I haven't seen one in 2 years, occasionally on trial though.

Among the many issues about dungeons that I mentioned however there is one in particular that's also holding people back from doing the jobs they need: tanking is painfully annoying for some, to the point that they never touch it again because of the fear of being called names and stuff. I personally don't have this issue because I'm quite the bitter person and other bitter persons only make me laugh, but this can still cause people to never touch their tanking job ever again for the shock of simply being called "bad" in the most horrible ways for the simplest of mistakes: you can see some threads yourself over the forums of how people complain of entitled tanks. And sadly this has no fix: it's all on the community to fix itself.

At any rate, if you have the reason to re-run them and enjoy them, I'm sure many others enjoy it as much as you do. I don't, but others do and that's what's important. What's not fine is that however you put it, the issue remains: tanks are lacking, and queues can take a lot of time in few occasions. Sometimes not, but sometimes it's over 30 minutes. I'm just putting blame upon the dungeons and their lack of stimulating features, rather than the people themselves.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

snip.

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I'm going to say this one more time too then, as clearly as I can for you this time. I'm talking about AiN, not individual dungeons.

AiN bonus is only gotten from roulettes, not from queuing for individual dungeons...I haven't been talking about queuing for specific dungeons this whole time, only talking about AiN and roulette, because AiN is tied into roulette.

AiN is working as intended. It does get people, such as myself, to tank rather than dps. The OP is proposing making it be for dps sometimes just because. This is a bad idea because it will lengthen dps queues greatly. Minus increasing the rewards a bit, what we have now is the best solution.

That's really all there is to it.

The only thing I'd like to see is for the algorithms to work a bit more accurately. I've queued for Healer Adventurer in Need numerous times since HW and ended up with a 10 minute or longer queue on a supposed average wait time of 5 minutes or less. It doesn't seem to respond quickly to changes in the pool of available roles, though it could be related to some other problem we can't see on the client end of things.

The system is fine as it is right now because it's decided by how many players are queuing into the dungeons with certain roles. It doesn't need any "shaking up" other than becoming more alluring to the role that's needed most, without making it too much of an advantage that it could be truly unfair to the roles not needed as much. Sorry it's inconvenient for whatever role you're playing that isn't chosen by the algorithm, but it's working as intended. That's really all I have to add to this echo chamber.

Current bonus is pretty much a joke and it does absolutely nothing to get more tanks in there(thats why its always Tanks), now if it would give like 20k+ GC seals and maybe 50-100k gil then i MIGHT do it everyday, even with those bonuses im not 100% sure i would still que for it.

Please don't feed the trolls no one is this stupid.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Please don't feed the trolls no one is this stupid.

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You have not been on the internet long, I see!

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Current bonus is pretty much a joke and it does absolutely nothing to get more tanks in there(thats why its always Tanks), now if it would give like 20k+ GC seals and maybe 50-100k gil then i MIGHT do it everyday, even with those bonuses im not 100% sure i would still que for it.

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That is too overpowered.
You know that the AiN bonus is not daily capped like the normal roulette bonus?
Your reward would produce billionaires within 1-2 days

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Originally Posted by Felis

That is too overpowered.
You know that the AiN bonus is not daily capped like the normal roulette bonus?
Your reward would produce billionaires within 1-2 days

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I could live with that.

I posted earlier that the AiN bonus should be adjusted to include a reputation like reward, which at certain thresholds can be exchanged for Minions, Glamour gear and Mounts. MG&M are a powerful incentive. Thresholds would be set moderately high, perhaps coming every 100 - 200 completions.

This is similar to the tank mount reward (which only applies to tanking raids).

That bonus would be applied only to the roulettes that don't also provide the highest current tome. More incentives are not needed in the expert roulette. Because AiN is separate from the daily bonus, this would result in many people spamming the lower roulettes - those are the ones that have the really bad queue times.

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Originally Posted by Felis

That is too overpowered.
You know that the AiN bonus is not daily capped like the normal roulette bonus?
Your reward would produce billionaires within 1-2 days

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You say that like it's a bad thing. If they massively increased the reward (which they should) and since the AiN bonus is always there, you'd suddenly have a lot more people wanting to queue up as that role. But then what happens? Tons of people queue for that role for the nice bonus and as a result the AiN changes from Tank to something else, which means it changes to healer in need or even DPS in need after that. But here's another thing, you get the AiN bonus based on what you queued as when that bonus was up.

So if you queue as tank when tank is in need but the bonus changes to "healer in need" in that time, you still get the bonus regardless. A massive AiN bonus increase would help everyone across the board as it has a good chance at causing many of the In need role to queue and thus forcing the bonus to change, yet at the same time those people that queued when they were in need, still get their bonus. Win/win

Been playing for more than three months and saw AiN healer a couple of weeks for the first time. I was pleasantly surprised because I thought it was a tank by default lol.
The thing is people don\\'t like to be yelled at. My wife plays a tank and she loves tanking and has been tanking in wow for years. She also plays PLD here but every time she goes to the dungeon she\\'s afraid to get yelled at. She still does it because it\\'s rewarding to be a leader afterall :) honestly running with her as a healer I sometimes want to make some poisonous comments myself when she derps for a moment and misses mechanic, not to mention people who are outright mad because she doesn\\'t like to speedrun dungeons, tanking ninjas, pulling summoners and all that sort of people whom as a tank you are supposed to protect. So yeah there are lots of things that stop people from lining up as tanks to the df.

My solution would be adding more interesting things to the Grand company shop, because right now there is nothing really interesting you can buy. I mean one derpy looking minion for 30k seals is not serious, really...
Also how do you edit posts on mobile? It's not very intuitive...

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Originally Posted by Felis

That is too overpowered.
You know that the AiN bonus is not daily capped like the normal roulette bonus?
Your reward would produce billionaires within 1-2 days

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Just tossed some numbers around, point was it needs to be something like that becuase amount of gil you get atm doesnt even cover daily teleports unless you spam it non-stop. Burning a 100k+ in a day is pretty common when market playing so to me atleast that doesnt sound too OP even if you can spam it. Also if players start to swim in GC seals it also means cheaper coke, peacock, animal fat etc.. due market flooding and i would like that as airships eats those mats like a candy.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Just tossed some numbers around, point was it needs to be something like that becuase amount of gil you get atm doesnt even cover daily teleports unless you spam it non-stop. Burning a 100k+ in a day is pretty common when market playing so to me atleast that doesnt sound too OP even if you can spam it. Also if players start to swim in GC seals it also means cheaper coke, peacock, animal fat etc.. due market flooding and i would like that as airships eats those mats like a candy.

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until a reward that high causes market inflation negating any value a higher reward would of had. not to mention RMT having a semi-legitimate source of gil

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

You say that like it's a bad thing. If they massively increased the reward (which they should) and since the AiN bonus is always there, you'd suddenly have a lot more people wanting to queue up as that role.But then what happens? Tons of people queue for that role for the nice bonus and as a result the AiN changes from Tank to something else, which means it changes to healer in need or even DPS in need after that. But here's another thing, you get the AiN bonus based on what you queued as when that bonus was up.

So if you queue as tank when tank is in need but the bonus changes to "healer in need" in that time, you still get the bonus regardless. A massive AiN bonus increase would help everyone across the board as it has a good chance at causing many of the In need role to queue and thus forcing the bonus to change, yet at the same time those people that queued when they were in need, still get their bonus. Win/win

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Inflation and introducing tons of gil immediately into the economy is bad thing.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Inflation and introducing tons of gil immediately into the economy is bad thing.

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Inflation is a valid point, to counter that they could up the repair and teleport costs and generally add more gil sinks. Dunno if they can ever make that bonus as an real incentive that doesnt cause butthurt inside community.

In regards to the OP...

https://tomvanderwell.files.wordpres...0&h=400&crop=1

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Honestly 95% of the time I have "Tanks" for Adventurers in Need for all of my Roulettes and honestly I'm getting sick of seeing it all the time.

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Adventurer in need bonus is meant to give a bonus to the job that is currently needed to fill parties for that particular DR. That is literally what "adventurer in need" means. It isn't rocket surgery. If they change it to DPS and everyone chooses DPS then there will be a 2 hour queue to get in and it defeats the purpose of both what it is called and why it was added in the first place.

http://poster.keepcalmandposters.com/2224341.png

Hey, I've got a great idea! What if instead of giving more bonuses randomly to everyone for roulette, SE gave tanks (or whichever class there is not enough of in queue) a special incentive to queue, which will result in DPS spending less time in queue and more time in dungeons getting exp?

....Oh, wait... That's what our current Adventurer In Need system does, except it doesn't do it very well because the rewards are so small.

I do roulettes with my tank and runs for the AiN only un trial because itr more worth it the Gilbonus un trial, if SE want me to run more leveling only foe AiN aftee my daily, give me at least 150k expbonus at level 55+

Yea there needs to be more experience bonus for under lvl 60 dungeons. And a better bonus for the trials. I would be more inclined to run it if there was a better bonus.

OP, would you prefer to have no indicator for tanks who feel like queuing for a bonus? Do you want to increase the DPS surplus during peak hours?I was sure the "in need" part of Adventure in need is obvious...

However, I too would like to see better rewards given to encourage tanks to put up with pugs

I don't think there's a problem with the adventurer in need bonus. Tanking is really off putting to people because a. A lot if expected of you, mistakes are very noticeable and b. Most people aren't comfortable being the de-facto leader of the group.

I would like to see a bonus rewarded if you have to wait in a duty queue for a long time though.

If only the Adventurer in Need bonus actually gave more exp for repeating more than once per day.

That would alleviate queues alot, especially when people are levelling tanks. Been seeing way too many tanks just spamming FATEs because running dungeons aren't as fast/rewarding.

As much as I would like to see more exp awarded, I think they need to increase rewards in other areas like Gil, tomes, or achievements with titles and goodies like we have for commendations. Problem with giving too much bonus exp is it will make people level faster and need fewer runs, so it is hurting queues in the long run to help in the short run.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

As much as I would like to see more exp awarded, I think they need to increase rewards in other areas like Gil, tomes, or achievements with titles and goodies like we have for commendations. Problem with giving too much bonus exp is it will make people level faster and need fewer runs, so it is hurting queues in the long run to help in the short run.

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Doesn't hurt queues in the long run. Since most people would rather FATEs to level now anyway. If anything, it'd improve queues by a significant amount because FATEs are mind numbingly boring.

Tanks/Healers joining dungeon queues to level > Tanks/Healers spamming FATEs to level. At least those who prefer to run dungeons would at least not get abysmal queue times anymore. One way or another, they're going to get past the levelling process, why not make it more worthwhile for them to run dungeons instead of sitting around FATE spamming all day long?

Of course, for Expert Roulettes, the incentive for Adventurer in Need is pretty "meh" to make the needed classes run them more than once a day. Even a small bonus like 10 extra esoterics for being an Adventurer in Need would make sure queues are shortened even for DPS classes.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Doesn't hurt queues in the long run. Since most people would rather FATEs to level now anyway. If anything, it'd improve queues by a significant amount because FATEs are mind numbingly boring.

Tanks/Healers joining dungeon queues to level > Tanks/Healers spamming FATEs to level. At least those who prefer to run dungeons would at least not get abysmal queue times anymore. One way or another, they're going to get past the levelling process, why not make it more worthwhile for them to run dungeons instead of sitting around FATE spamming all day long?

Of course, for Expert Roulettes, the incentive for Adventurer in Need is pretty "meh" to make the needed classes run them more than once a day. Even a small bonus like 10 extra esoterics for being an Adventurer in Need would make sure queues are shortened even for DPS classes.

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Small rewards like that would improve things for a short while, but it's really just a drop in the bucket to incentivizing players. 10 is practically nothing to someone who does not normally do said activity as a norm. Even 20 could be low IMO. For getting AiN queues beyond the daily roulette, that is. Incentives have to be attractive enough to do something that generally DON'T want to do. Think about what it would take to get you to do something you don't want to do, and how extreme some incentives would have to be lol. People make a ridiculously huge stink about a few minutes wasted when it comes to video games. Relate that to what it would take to get them to do something that takes way more than a few minutes lol.

Ignoring the role responsibilities that certainly make them unattractive to the majority base, what you need to honestly do is make it worth your while for all players to level a certain role/job. If, for an extreme example, it cut the tome grind in half to be the consistent tank for AiN, I can guarantee we'll see more people taking up the role in the long run.

What happens then? Tanks become in high supply, AiN moves to heals, and so on and so forth. The immediate concern becomes the short term, where tanks will finish up their tome grind quickly and not need to queue, until the other players conclude it's better to be X role. There honestly is no solid way to get people to play a tank/healer, so that they're in a surplus supply. The role itself is unattractive to most people, be it because of the way it plays or the responsibility. I dare say that the latter is the main culprit.

In this thread... People explaining how roulette works without giving a ssource.

Tanks are under more pressure to perform in roulettes than any other role. The roulette bonuses are just fine the way they are. When they make DPS checks in normal dungeons hard enough to where DPS have to actually play their job properly instead of being able to faceroll while the healer and tank carry them through the boss, THEN we can maybe talk about bonuses for DPS.

DPS players should get some kind of mount reward for successfully completing Savage content though. The skill required as a DPS player in those dungeons is well above what is required of healers and tanks.

And healers should get mount rewards too, especially for PVP.

http://puu.sh/kzR6l/1c9c9c1442.jpg

It's gonna be a long-ass wait for that paltry 16k bonus experience, though. xD

Play as tank. The role you do roulettes on is irrelevant to your main jobs. Problem solved. It's a social/player issue. Contribute by playing tank.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

So... because offering a reward isn't attracting a large amount of tanks into the queue you're suggesting removing the reward entirely to stop the remaining tanks who actually do take advantage of it from bothering to queue? At this point it's already barely an incentive and for some players it's literally the only thing that would convince them to queue in with randoms.

That line of thinking seems counter productive.**snip**
I understand the desire for a daily bonus but it doesn't actually benefit the goal of filling parties and encouraging players to queue into content, the Adventurer in Need bonus is supposed to do that.

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This is why the tanking achievement mounts should include DR runs as tank when the AiN is tank, plus toss in a few tomes for crying out loud.

The whole point of the crappy mounts was to reward tanks for helping the community by actually playing as tanks, so why, why in the name of the wee man, does the achievement depend on *end game* tanking, were statics already have their tanks lined up; and not DR where the need for tanks is crystal freaking clear?

Here is part of the problem. I was leveling my warrior joined a fate party and saw this.

http://i.imgur.com/FFfz6Mk.jpg

Basically everyone in the party was like, laughing cause its all tanks and healers. This is why the queues are so long. Everyone agreed that fates were faster and doing dungeons for leveling was way slower due to low dps. Now then if dungeon roulette gave more exp per hour then fates then more tanks would do them.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Here is part of the problem. I was leveling my warrior joined a fate party and saw this.

http://i.imgur.com/FFfz6Mk.jpg

Basically everyone in the party was like, laughing cause its all tanks and healers. This is why the queues are so long. Everyone agreed that fates were faster and doing dungeons for leveling was way slower due to low dps. Now then if dungeon roulette gave more exp per hour then fates then more tanks would do them.

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But...but... clearing dungeons in 90 minutes is intended and getting 1/10 of the entire exp bar in 90 minutes is totally acceptable. /s

TBH, the incentives that need to be given to balance out Dungeon vs FATE exp would either be so high that those who play extremely well in dungeons level way too quickly or so low that people just wouldn't bother.

Until the day DPS are required to perform well in DF, nothing short of 1 level worth of exp per dungeon for AiN would make more tanks and healers join those queues more than once per day for their Daily Roulette bonus.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

http://puu.sh/kzR6l/1c9c9c1442.jpg

It's gonna be a long-ass wait for that paltry 16k bonus experience, though. xD

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If you're seeing that now, that's actually pretty worrisome lol.

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When something fails its intended purpose its time to modify it, change it, get rid of it, whatever.

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There is nothing SE is going to be able to do that will get people that only wanna play DPS to stop playing DPS.

AiN is not intended to entirely fix the problem on its own, just give people a subtle encouragement to being able/willing to diversify for the sake of a faster queue.

Personally, a decent chunk of my gil comes from AiN bonuses, so I've got no issue with it.

Fortunately for the OP, there is nothing stopping him/her from getting the AIN bonus from every roulette, every day. They probably didn't read the active help when they came over from WoW, where everyone thinks they're entitled to handouts and special treatment.

I'll summarize the noted active help message for the OP:

You can play more than one role. You can play more than one job. In fact you can play them all!, giving you over a dozen options to play each and every role all you want.

Enjoy earning your AIN bonus! :)

Can confirm earlier on Siren it was also showing that DPS was in need.....

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Originally Posted by adn

When they make DPS checks in normal dungeons hard enough to where DPS have to actually play their job properly instead of being able to faceroll while the healer and tank carry them through the boss, THEN we can maybe talk about bonuses for DPS.

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History has shown that to not be the case. Oh, vintage Demon Wall was too hard. Better nerf that. I've never wiped to that thing pre-nerf because of a lack of DPS. Even Demon Wall 2.0 saves progress if you wipe. That casual DPS lifestyle (outside of Savage of course).