It's almost impossible to level a new character now. What gives, SE?

This game is too hard...../cry

Don't be stupid, this shit is easy.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

You don't get any decent gear while leveling until ~20. Using high level gear penalizes you too much.
Stats are more important at low levels. Gear is more important at high levels. Also: Rank 1-20 is like 2-3 days anyways.

Your stats are terrible until ~20, so you have to rest every 1-3 mobs. It's also nearly impossible to fight any monster more than 2 levels above you.
Stats have a higher impact on low levels. That has been said planty of times.

You cannot complete any leve that isn't below your level. The linking mobs will destroy you. Leves now occasionally fail if you die.
Why should you be able do defeat easily enemy groups with a higher level than yours?


The money rewards from leves, chesta, and quests at low levels makes it impossible to purchase any items via MW, unless you take up a gathering/crafting class and try your hand at marketing.
New items have been introduced a few days ago. Give it some time. I also think that leveling and money earning shouldn't be done at the same time. That is the reason why prices are so high. Because everyone had a lot of money by simply doing leves and selling shards.

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This game finally moves away from the "auto-win" mentality. I like it.

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Originally Posted by Takinagi

This game is too hard...../cry

Don't be stupid, this shit is easy.

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Because time spent is a measurement of challenge.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Because time spent is a measurement of challenge.

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It's a measurement of dedication.

Lots of things in life are not "challenging", but they still take dedication, which gives you a feeling of accomplishment once you're done.

The mindset that every accomplishment in an MMO must be measured by the challenge is silly.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

It's a measurement of dedication.

Lots of things in life are not "challenging", but they still take dedication, which gives you a feeling of accomplishment once you're done.

The mindset that every accomplishment in an MMO must be measured by the challenge is silly.

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Right, but I'm playing a video game. I'm not doing day-to-day things in real life.

An overwhelming majority of the "accomplishments" in this MMO revolve around time spent.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Right, but I'm playing a video game. I'm not doing day-to-day things in real life.

An overwhelming majority of the "accomplishments" in this MMO revolve around time spent.

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That's the difference between core and casual gamers.

Core's feel accomplished from heavy commitment and dedication. That's what they liked about XI.
Forgive be for being blunt, but just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't invalidate it for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

That's the difference between core and casual gamers.

Core's feel accomplished from heavy commitment and dedication. That's what they liked about XI.
Forgive be for being blunt, but just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't invalidate it for everyone else.

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I play a lot of video games both online and offline, so I would be considered a core gamer. Does that mean I want to go back to playing a game where time spent = success for the majority of the content? No, not really. Especially if said content is extremely boring.

If I came off that way, I apologize, but it wasn't my intention. I could have chosen a better way to write it. I acknowledge that some people enjoy sinking innumerable hours into one video game. I was simply stating that I do not.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

I play a lot of video games both online and offline, so I would be considered a core gamer. Does that mean I want to go back to playing a game where time spent = success for the majority of the content? No, not really. Especially if said content is extremely boring.

If I came off that way, I apologize, but it wasn't my intention. I could have chosen a better way to write it. I acknowledge that some people enjoy sinking innumerable hours into one video game. I was simply stating that I do not.

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Which is fine, I just consider the line defining the difference between casual and core to be based on time committed to a single game or task. A casual would not give his or herself the time to commit to something long term and would go the a quick and fun route.

Like comparing a cookie to a steak. One is quick and sweet, the other is savory and takes time.

Probably not the best analogy, but I hope you get my perspective.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

That's the difference between core and casual gamers.

Core's feel accomplished from heavy commitment and dedication. That's what they liked about XI.
Forgive be for being blunt, but just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't invalidate it for everyone else.

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Actually, I'm pretty sure most core gamers play games for entertainment purposes, like any sane person, and any sense of accomplishment derived thereof is purely a side-effect of playing a good game. If they ever seem dedicated, it's probably because they really like the game they're playing.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Actually, I'm pretty sure most core gamers play games for entertainment purposes, like any sane person, and any sense of accomplishment derived thereof is purely a side-effect of playing a good game. If they ever seem dedicated, it's probably because they really like the game they're playing.

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Both core and casual play for entertainment.
How they get this entertainment is what divides them. Of not for the time given, then why would casual games be the ones you can pick up and put down in short segments? Why core games to require more time and commitment than their counterparts?

I'm only going by what the industry has taught me about both consumer groups.

Casual - Easy to play, easy to master - shorter sessions

Middle ground

Core - hard to play, hard to master - longer sessions

Some people act like FFXIV is the ONLY game in the whole freaking world that requires time to master. Every single game works that way even the singleplayer offline Final Fantasy games.

Yes, you can rush a FF game, finish it in about 40 hours, but you character will not be leveled to the maximum level. You will not have the best weapons. You will not have done all the sidequests and so on ...

It is the same in FFXIV, so I do not see the problem.

Yes, 1-20 is a bit unbalanced at the moment, suck it up. Either quit until they balanced it a bit more or just shut up and play. People could level to level 30 if they put the time in leveling instead of crying on the forums.

I started over after patch 1.19 hit. I am level 12 ARC right now and I did not put in that much time so far. I always killed mobs my level or just one level higher. I am able to chain to at least #2 sometimes even #3 by timing my kills and saving my TP.

Again, I agree it is a bit unbalanced, but it is not as bas as some of you guys make it sound like.

Edit: The only problem I am having right now is finding the right gear in the Market Wards. SE should look into making low level gear (until level 8 or something) cheap and easy to get. My linkshell will help me later today with some gear, so that will be solved too. No problem.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Both core and casual play for entertainment.
How they get this entertainment is what divides them. Of not for the time given, then why would casual games be the ones you can pick up and put down in short segments? Why core games to require more time and commitment than their counterparts?

I'm only going by what the industry has taught me about both consumer groups.

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Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

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So, what exactly is the difference between the games you just described and FFXIV?

You can logoff whenever you want. You can login whenever you want. You can put in as much time and effort as you want.

... just like every other game?

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Right, but I'm playing a video game. I'm not doing day-to-day things in real life.

An overwhelming majority of the "accomplishments" in this MMO revolve around time spent.

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Day-to-day things? How about repairing an old car? Takes dedication, knowledge, but isn't exactly challenging. Just time-consuming, probably expensive.

I'm not an advocate for every accomplishment being dictated by time spent, and I certainly don't mind encounters like the Hard mode Ifrit, but the mindset that everything should be like the ifrit fight or it's not an accomplishment at all is silly. That's all I'm saying.

At the end of the day if leveling is no longer considered an accomplishment, it is a useless feature because there is no challenge in it either. It should be either removed completely or made an achievement (through requiring enough dedication to be considered as such). Do you have an alternative solution?

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

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I don't know about that. The fact that Dwarf Fortress not only exists, but is popular in spite of it's insane complexity, crazy high learning curve, and necessity for long term commitment makes me think that there is a strong market for time heavy games.

And please don't insult me with callous name calling like that. When developers talk about how they want to appeal to a more casual audience, it's usually by making the game playable in small segments to conform to the little time they want to commit to the game. I'm only following their examples.

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Some people act like FFXIV is the ONLY game in the whole freaking world that requires time to master. Every single game works that way even the singleplayer offline Final Fantasy games.

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Since this is the premise of your entire post, I'll address only this part.

When I think of mastering something, I think of improving a skill set. For instance, in a game like Starcraft 2, there are several skill sets for me to master. I can work on macro, micro, hotkeys, map control, vision etc. In an MMO, I have fewer things to master. I need to master the use of pressing an ability on a bar at the right time. I'm not saying FFXIV takes absolutely zero skill to master, but time spent on repetitive and low skill-cap tasks is far more important.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Day-to-day things? How about repairing an old car? Takes dedication, knowledge, but isn't exactly challenging. Just time-consuming, probably expensive.

I'm not an advocate for every accomplishment being dictated by time spent, and I certainly don't mind encounters like the Hard mode Ifrit, but the mindset that everything should be like the ifrit fight or it's not an accomplishment at all is silly. That's all I'm saying.

At the end of the day if leveling is no longer considered an accomplishment, it is a useless feature because there is no challenge in it either. It should be either removed completely or made an achievement (through requiring enough dedication to be considered as such). Do you have an alternative solution?

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This will probably be a double post so I apologize in advance.

Repairing an old car is not a day-to-day task unless it's a hobby or you are a mechanic. Cleaning my house is time consuming, but that doesn't make it an accomplishment.

I agree with you.

I somewhat agree with you. Leveling should be considered an accomplishment, but I don't think that means I should be forced to do the same thing endlessly. I'll use World of Warcraft as an example even though it won't translate perfectly to this conversation. In World of Warcraft, to level I can do as many quests as I want solo or with friends, grind on mobs, do dungeons, participate in PVP, gather materials or do archeology. If I get bored of one thing, I go do something else. Yes, it all boils down to time spent, but if I don't enjoy doing one thing I can try something else.

In FFXIV, there isn't much variety. It all feels very much the same to me.

You are right about that everything feels very much the same, but we have to remember this is still some kind of beta. Things are unbalanced and we knew (or at least I knew) this was going to happen. Since it is impossible to balance a game when it is live.

Blizzard made this same mistake just before the last two expansions came out. Especially just before Cataclysm the whole world was a mess, because they patched the game with some expansions related data before the expansion was even out. The whole balance was gone and it was not fixed until the expansion was released.

We are having the same problem right now. They are balancing stuff, they are changing stuff, they are adding stuff, they are removing stuff. Since we want patches and we want them fast we will have periods like this until the games final (and gets Pay to Play).

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Repairing an old car is not a day-to-day task unless it's a hobby or you are a mechanic.

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I explained myself improperly, as I basically meant that its not the day-to-day tasks I am talking about but hobbies that provide you with accomplishments and enjoyment, even if every day is not a hard-mode Ifrit.

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I don't think that means I should be forced to do the same thing endlessly

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Well, are you forced to tweak the car's settings endlessly as well? You do it because you enjoy it, not because you are forced to, by some almighty being, to do it. If you do not enjoy it, you are not forced to do it.

As far as variety, the developers are working on it. That's all they can do. What they can't do, is make leveling faster now because there is less variety and tune it down later when there is more variety. The status quo has to stay, because the playerbase would reject such change later on. They need to avoid nerfing, especially when it comes to such a delicate topic. It can't be always avoided, but in this case it can.

This is an issue that only time can fix, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I don't know about that. The fact that Dwarf Fortress not only exists, but is popular in spite of it's insane complexity, crazy high learning curve, and necessity for long term commitment makes me think that there is a strong market for time heavy games.

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Yes, but Dwarf Fortress, like any other game, let's me play as long as I want, save, then go do other things for as long as I want. MMOs, on the other hand, are designed in such a fashion that I have to always be playing if I want to keep up. If I stop levelling, my buddies will pass me. If I stop running dungeons, my buddies will outgear me. We won't be able to do things together anymore, because the game is designed to isolate people who don't keep up from their peers, essentially punishing them for their lack of commitment. It is not fun being a low-level when all your buddies are off enjoying high-level content without you. It's not fun when you're in basic dungeon gear killing basic dungeon bosses while your buddies are in epic raid gear killing physical gods and the like. I should not be forced into this kind of commitment, yet social factors and the game's design will inevitably cause me to do so, and I do not like it.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, are you forced to tweak the car's settings endlessly as well? You do it because you enjoy it, not because you are forced to, by some almighty being, to do it. If you do not enjoy it, you are not forced to do it.

As far as variety, the developers are working on it. That's all they can do. What they can't do, is make leveling faster now because there is less variety and tune it down later when there is more variety. The status quo has to stay, because the playerbase would reject such change later on. They need to avoid nerfing, especially when it comes to such a delicate topic. It can't be always avoided, but in this case it can.

This is an issue that only time can fix, sadly.

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I do enjoy FFXIV as a concept, but I don't enjoy the implementation of that concept in the current form. It all boils down to your last sentence. I haven't played for a year. Like many others, I squeed with excitement when it came time for launch, spent $60 on the CE, and immediately started playing. The game was not ready, so I figured I'd give it time to come around. The game is much better, but after five years of development, and a full year of patches, I was expecting much more. Time is a valuable commodity, and I thought one year was enough to add that variety that makes games interesting. They're on their way, but still have quite a long way to go.

I think for a player in my position, coming back after a year off, with no community of friends playing this MMO, that FFXIV asks an awful lot of new players and gives very little in return.

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I think for a player in my position, coming back after a year off, with no community of friends playing this MMO, that FFXIV asks an awful lot of new players and gives very little in return.

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That is true. The changes, which are all very fundamental in nature, will take longer to apply than a year (which comes down to around 8 months right now with the team restructuring and restart of development taking its toll. And an earthquake).

Still, I can't say it's any tougher than it was before. Only because gear actually matters now, which was a needed change no matter how you look at it. The game being forgiving because you could play through it in a bikini just isn't an acceptable trade-off.

I like this pace. It's should be like this. Pre1.19 was way too fast.
Anyway,I create new char and my friend help PL me with his con.
I was skyrocket from 13 to 20 in about 2 hours.( I soloed from 10-13 in 2 hour too lol )

I think yoshi p made this on purpose ( as he mentioned earlier )

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Originally Posted by Petdo

I like this pace. It's should be like this. Pre1.19 was way too fast.
Anyway,I create new char and my friend help PL me with his con.
I was skyrocket from 13 to 20 in about 2 hours.( I soloed from 10-13 in 2 hour too lol )

I think yoshi p made this on purpose ( as he mentioned earlier )

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I sense a little conflict here; You like the current pace so much that you needed your friend to power level your character? And pre 1.19 was too fast even though it probably wasn't as fast as your friend power leveling you post 1.19.. umm so fast leveling through power leveling is okay, but fast solo leveling is not? I find this a bit odd.

I 've deleted my character and create new one in 1.19.
I think the time I spend for lvling wasn't that bad. I can fast lvling both DoM by AoEing on mobs and obtain some spells I want my DoW have it then I can solo easiler.
In leve quest soloing, adjust more star didn't seem to give me much more bonus exp per leve mobs IMO.
Rather than add too much stars, I choose only one above my lv and finish it quickly for speed completion bonus.

The only thing that's bother me are bothersome long distance running Storyline Quests.

***My suggestion here***
IMO, they should give us quite large amount of exp as reward for one-time quest (Storyline, side-quest, etc) to have players lvling their main class fast then leave grinding on mobs and leves that take a lot of time to other classes they want to play.

I apologize for bad grammar :/