Punishing divas who jump ship before a dungeon even begins.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

And for certain instances, that's not incentive enough. Sorry. If all instances took as long as each other, and had the same difficulty curve relative to item level, it wouldn't be a problem. But that's not the case. Some instances take three times longer than others, and that's not worth the time commitment to get the same reward.

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Yup it's a roulette, it's random. And it allow to make sure every older content is being done. Not just the easiest/fastest.
I don't see any problem with that.

Once again if you are not ok with it, just don't do the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

OK, these princess tanks who bail out of Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale have pushed me to the limit. S-E really needs to consider one of two things to stop this garbage:

*Gray out the Leave button in Duty Finder for 5 or 10 minutes into the beginning of the Dungeon.

*Impose a 60 minute penalty for leaving inside of the same time period.

All of these special snowflakes who think they're too good to participate in dungeons really need a reality check.

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Greying out the leave button will probably just cause the tanks to afk until they can leave or get kicked. Yes, alot of them are that stubborn.

As for the 60min penalty, there is already a 30 min penalty and that doesn't seem to stop anyone from instantly leaving when they get into a dungeon they didn't want.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Skill has little to do with time spent. Some instances just take longer, and that's the way it is. People with real life commitments don't necessarily have that extra time spare that you do. They still need tomes, the way you do, though.

Things like this will always happen while instance design remains inconsistent, and Roulettes are used as a cheap solution to deal with endgame vertical progression, and the widening content gap between the starter and the endgame.

Look for a solution, rather than pointing fingers due to the symptoms.

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If they need tomes as you say, they have time to spend in doing them and go through all it requires, therefore they should accept what come their way. If they really dont have the time, or are not willing to spend the time, they shoudlnt run any of those dungeons at all, that way onyl those that really want to be there are there and would remove 80 % of the complains and silly threads of the type of this one

It isnt like anyone of us had a gun on their head that THEY MUST run something that obviously makes them unhappy. Once you make a choice, you stick with it, otherwise your choice was poor and is nobody fault and you still shoudl stick to it, because resposability of the choice is on you

Mei

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Originally Posted by Duero

Once again if you are not ok with it, just don't do the roulette.

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Then give me a viable way of gearing up that requires the same commitment, and pops as reliably. And don't say PvP, since I already do that whenever it's available. Which during certain time zones, it simply isn't.

If Seize popped 24-7 and there were more options with relevant tomes rewards like it, I'm not sure I'd ever step into a Roulette dungeon again. It's infinitely more enjoyable, because every experience plays out tactically different.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Then give me a viable way of gearing up that requires the same commitment, and pops as reliably. And don't say PvP, since I already do that whenever it's available. Which during certain time zones, it simply isn't.

If Seize popped 24-7 and there were more options with relevant tomes rewards like it, I'm not sure I'd ever step into a Roulette dungeon again. It's infinitely more enjoyable, because every experience plays out tactically different.

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Leveling dungeons aren't really for gearing. They're for exp (hence leveling). You're far better off farming Alex NM for esoterics, which give 10 per run, repeatable, as opposed to only 5 per day for a leveling dungeon. For law tomes, once again, you'll get more tomes running an Expert roulette. There's literally no reason for a max level character looking to gear up to touch the leveling roulette.

This looks familiar.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

I love these kinds of threads. Someone is upset because they can't control what another players does, and so they insist on adding a layer of control they believe will benefit, or deemed fair by, them.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

If they need tomes as you say, they have time to spend in doing them

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Sorry, what? The game requires you to get tomes to gear up to access the next chunk of content... ilvl requirements are there to force you into repeating content, right?

Being forced to do something =/= Having the time to do it.

That might be valid if all dungeon instances on the Roulettes were equal, and required the same amount of time, but that's not the case...

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

If they really dont have the time, or are not willing to spend the time, they shoudlnt run any of those dungeons at all.

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So, wait. You want to deny access to the entire Roulette, just because two or three dungeons in it take disproportionality longer than the rest of them? That's a kinda dumb response to a valid problem, isn't it? Surely you're not being serious.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

only if you do the series that requires it...otherwise no..

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So you firmly believe it's perfectly fair to deny someone the same leg-up that you get, purely because they have a little less time each day than you do, and can't afford the inconsistency between instances?

And you're saying everyone else's attitude is poor, lol ;)

Seriously, be reasonable. There needs to be a limited opt-out in Roulette selection, or they need to batch quests together by length. Otherwise, it's just not fair to gate endgame content off with a carrot-and-stick system, if that system can randomly require a time commitment of 5 minutes, or 90.

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Originally Posted by Duero

So you admit the Roulette gives exactly what you need in comparison to others means but don't want to do it because in some rare cases it takes too long ?

Once again it's your choice

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There's no choice in not having the extra time. Do I know which instance I'm running before I press the accept button...? No.

Not having the extra time is not the same as not wanting to spend it.

Again, you're being unreasonable and dismissive. I get what you're saying, but it's still not fair to suggest someone bailing because they don't have the extra time has a choice in the matter.

Simple penalty : "If you withdraw from your Roulette, you'll lose the bonus for the day"

Want the reward ? Play by the rule !

only if you do the series that requires it...otherwise no..you can do other stuff that doesnt take you through this...of course you are limitated inwhat you can do but..you still are NOT forced to do it.

that is your choice and decision to undertake the tomes and choice and decision to click roulette...again NOBODY forces you to do it.

I understand choices are hard to live by...but still the choice is on everyone of us and once you make that choice you need to learn to live with it....to me is a simple rule of life..I dont Wonder the game is in the state it is with the mentalities that go by and why so many are frustrated.

Mei

a lot of choices in one paragraph. I dunno what to do with it all :p

Anyways, the system isn't broken, so why try to fix it. Devs do things certain ways for reasons they only know. So why argue back and forth for nothing. They are reading all this laughing at us. :p

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Originally Posted by Hayward

OK, these princess tanks who bail out of Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale have pushed me to the limit. S-E really needs to consider one of two things to stop this garbage:

*Gray out the Leave button in Duty Finder for 5 or 10 minutes into the beginning of the Dungeon.

*Impose a 60 minute penalty for leaving inside of the same time period.

All of these special snowflakes who think they're too good to participate in dungeons really need a reality check.

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Afk, play something else. Oh look, my steam library has a few hundred games backed up, maybe I'll go play those for awhile and not give a care.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Then give me a viable way of gearing up that requires the same commitment, and pops as reliably. And don't say PvP, since I already do that whenever it's available. Which during certain time zones, it simply isn't.

If Seize popped 24-7 and there were more options with relevant tomes rewards like it, I'm not sure I'd ever step into a Roulette dungeon again. It's infinitely more enjoyable, because every experience plays out tactically different.

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I don't know what to answer anymore to this.
So you admit the Roulette gives exactly what you need in comparison to others means but don't want to do it because in some rare cases it takes too long ?

Once again it's your choice : The Roulette give you a way to get your tomes, play by the rules or don't play.

It's like saying killing this boss is the only way to get the items I want but I don't want to kill this boss... what do you expect ? that the game give you the item anyway because you are to lazy and want it right now without effort ?

People should be allowed to leave whenever they please.
Leavers should be punished, 30 minutes is decent, 1 hour would be a bit better, to really feel the sting of your choices.

I am glad maximum level players still have some incentive to queue up for leveling roulette, most are decent and stay for the dungeon they get and make things easier for leveling players (new & old alike)

What I have a strong distaste for is players that instead of leaving close down their game and come back in 5-15 minutes hoping they were kicked and they queue back up like nothing happened; cowardly and exploitative.

Other than that, gl & hf ^^.

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Steps of Faith does need some attention though. They need to either nerf it again or apply some kind of permanent bonus to it.

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They could nerf it to the point where you could blow at Vishap and he keels over, and people would still ditch.

The problem here is that not everyone has gotten the memo of just how badly nerfed it was, and people are still just used to leaving out of habit. It definitely is not a hard trial anymore, and usually even if someone leaves the fight is still easily 7-manned, even on the DF, even with newcomers, no matter which role the person that left was (although it is almost always a tank that leaves, go figure). A surprising number of people in this game just do not read the patch notes.

Had Steps twice in trial roulette. The first time no new bonus popped up, people were laughing that someone actually qued it, though not sure how the roulette works anyways. Though no one left and it was over well before reaching the second barrier. The second time it did have the new bonus pop up and it was over before reaching the barrels. Its pretty easy, I never got to before the nerf.

I've never left a dungeon because of which one it was. Though I did get AV a few days ago and 2 other people left before the start.

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Had Steps twice in trial roulette. The first time no new bonus popped up, people were laughing that someone actually qued it, though not sure how the roulette works anyways.

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A roulette group will not necessarily contain someone who queued that instance specifically.

The DF favors newcomers when it comes to party formation, but that doesn't necessarily mean every group that gets formed will have one in it. If enough people enter the roulette queue that can form a 2/2/4 setup, it'll stick them in one of their available instances eventually, even if they've all done it before.

There is maybe one solution to this. Add a penalty for the automatic afk-kick. Other than that, you can't avoid people from leaving, they have their reasons to leave as you have your reasons to stay. Nobody is entitled to judge anyone, you don't know their circumstances as they don't know yours.

Penalty for auto-kick imo should be implemented, if you happen to really need to afk imo you prolly don't have time for the duty anyways, it's very low of people to just afk and let the game kick them leaving the other players with hinderness and more time loss. It's not fair that you think that you shouldn't eat penalty because of reasons, and let others be punished instead. Just the same as fake dc. Although this is the ocasion where there should not be a penalty for dc, as again, we can't really assure if it's a legit power down or the player just clicking the "close client" button.

We can't get rid of a**holes sadly, we can only try to be better ourselves. Accept the roulette/duty rules as they are shown in the duty window, and if you want to leave, leave like a man/woman, not like an arse. If you're an arse, you will be remembered and if you were with me in party, I will vote "no" on your kick, I want you to come back and have the balls to leave like a person.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Add a penalty for the automatic afk-kick.

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I thought that already existed. I could swear I've seen people complaining that they stepped away "for just a couple minutes" and the game booted them and gave them the 30 minute penalty.

I did Steps for the first time 2 days ago.

It was utter chaos, there was no coordination, nothing. Peoples didn't even bother to dodge AOE.

Yet we did it on first try, it is not a hard challenge at all :p.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Even when tanking I'm not exactly sure why someone would leave and take a 30 minute lockout. Chances are, even with the slowest players, you're going to finish in about 30-40 minutes, so you might as well suck it up.

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It's an excellent micro example of how impatient and short-sighted many players are these days.

They will always jump on short-term gratification, without ever considering long-term costs.

A larger scale example is wanting everything to be faster/easier to obtain/complete, so they can "get it over with" more quickly, only to complain later because they've burned through the content, have nothing to do, and are bored.

Yet they'll do the same thing over, and over, and over again, always getting the same result, but never catching on or noticing the pattern.

30 minute lockout is just from duty finder, not from the game. They don't make you sit in the corner and think about what you've done for that 30 minutes.

if they did, people that do that, wouldnt care, besides, some of do leave because of RL stuff happening, albeit when it happens to me I say it, why shoudl those be locked out of game for 1h + even 30mn when tehy already took the hit?..not everybody is a prick...I am not in favor of punishing the good to make sure the bad is caught...

As for the rest, why the heck do people are so anal..play alone..dont do dungeons and things will never anger you..or understand you are in a social community that has good and bad with what you have to put up for short times...not all your *life*

Seems easy to me

Mei

With those suggested changes your just going to have your tank slot filled up for additional time before they force d/c and you're allowed to kick them or until the extra pre-abandon time is used up. Because your tank will be sitting at the entrance, alt-tabbed to other things. Better to have them leave and be replaced as soon as is possible, and try no-tanking in the meantime. (Even in Heavensward I've gotten through each dungeon w/o a tank. It just cuts down on healer dps quite a bit.)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

30 minute lockout is just from duty finder, not from the game. They don't make you sit in the corner and think about what you've done for that 30 minutes.

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As much as I'd like to say that this would help fix the early-leavers issue, it would also 'fix' friends trying to invite other friends to do much of anything. By the time one finishes their dungeon, someone else will have tried to do a trial roulette in the meantime, gets stuck with below-average players and ends up taking 4+ runs to clear Ravana/Bismarck story mode. I'd really rather be able to safely leave and deal with early-leaving tanks who probably weren't terribly good in the first place, then have to forgo doing anything with my guild everytime the "want to do Y" message comes out as I'm loading into a DF run. Tbh, I kind of feel like it's plenty tough already, with everything but Savage being accessed through DF, and could be cut back a bit.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

... I help people often, especially friends and people who have done favors for me, but why should I be held to your standards of helping people? Why am I forced to have to help people? Helping isn't an obligation or something compulsory. It's something you do out of goodness. Let me help when I want to. I have my own agenda and objectives in this game to accomplish, the last thing I need is someone telling me I need to be more altruistic.

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No one is forcing you to help anyone. You're the one deciding to queue on those roulettes. The bonus is there as an incentive for you to queue and play through an instance that has been triggered by another player who needs it; and by you leaving you are potentially screwing him/her over and making him start all over again. And that, for DPS can mean another half hour of wait.

What would be amazing as if they took a page out of the quitters playbook from Halo Reach, legitimately telling people they're a quitter, deduct exp and lock them out of the duty finder for the 30 minutes. Except make it better, lock them out of gaining exp on all classes for leaving early and have the failed mudra bunny appear on their head holding a sign saying quitter. Seriously it's ridiculous to hear people defending leaving early. You, yourself, the player, agreed to the terms of the random roulette by selecting it the first place, to do a randomly selected dungeon for a exp boost and tomes. Unfortunately the world and the game doesn't revolve around you and if you agree to do something random, then you should attempt to finish it and not bail out without reasonable progression being made.

please understand that people doing roulette doesn't mean they're agreed with this feature and agreed to face any issue they'll get. It's SE's decision to semi-force people to do them for tomes.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

please understand that people doing roulette doesn't mean they're agreed with this feature and agreed to face any issue they'll get. It's SE's decision to semi-force people to do them for tomes.

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People that do the roulette did exactly that, a willing choice to help others level and be paid for that effort. So yes they need to learn to face what they choose in the first place. Roulette means just that ...you take a chance to either land into something you like or dislike, but the choice they first made it, as I said you are not forced to do roulettes in the first place and if you do, you do know what to expect, if you dont know what to expect, then is solely your problem and I would suggest to read again the discription of what roulettes are for.

Mei

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

People that do the roulette did exactly that, a willing choice to help others level and be paid for that effort. So yes they need to learn to face what they choose in the first place. Roulette means just that ...you take a chance to either land into something you like or dislike, but the choice they first made it, as I said you are not forced to do roulettes in the first place and if you do, you do know what to expect, if you dont know what to expect, then is solely your problem and I would suggest to read again the discription of what roulettes are for.

Mei

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then people need to learn that the others can leave the duty, get over it, and move on. cuz that's one of the issue you may have with the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

OK, these princess tanks who bail out of Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale have pushed me to the limit. S-E really needs to consider one of two things to stop this garbage:

*Gray out the Leave button in Duty Finder for 5 or 10 minutes into the beginning of the Dungeon.

*Impose a 60 minute penalty for leaving inside of the same time period.

All of these special snowflakes who think they're too good to participate in dungeons really need a reality check.

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I'd take DD or Aurum Vale anytime over tam-tara or sashtasha
Thats where the exp is decent

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Originally Posted by Evangela

then people need to learn that the others can leave the duty, get over it, and move on. cuz that's one of the issue you may have with the roulette.

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Only if you agree to scrap your daily reward, since you're the one not playing by the game's rule.

and about these "good guys who are willing to help new players" in this thread. if the roulette don't offer any reward for endgame players at all, will you do it everyday just to help random people you don't even know in low level content?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Only if you agree to scrap your daily reward, since you're the one not playing by the game's rule.

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there's no rule that people cannot quit duties.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

please understand that people doing roulette doesn't mean they're agreed with this feature and agreed to face any issue they'll get. It's SE's decision to semi-force people to do them for tomes.

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Why the hell are you people even doing Leveling roulette for the TOMES?! You get FIVE Eso for leveling roulette. How the hell do you consider that worth it?! Just go do Expert dungeons...

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Originally Posted by Evangela

please understand that people doing roulette doesn't mean they're agreed with this feature and agreed to face any issue they'll get. It's SE's decision to semi-force people to do them for tomes.

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They're not forcing you to do anything, you, with your own free will are accepting to do a randomly selected dungeon for a tome/exp boost. You confirmed your participation in the roulette, if you don't like getting something selected for you, don't use the roulette, select your own dungeon that offers tomes and do that until you max. You're entirely accountable for leaving at the start, you knew you might not get something you like or maybe you would. But just because something doesn't goes your way doesn't mean quit like a spoiled child. Guess what, those other 3 or 7 people might not like it either, but they're going to complete it and get the reward. While you, the quitter, get nothing but a time out for being self centered.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

They're not forcing you to do anything, you, with your own free will are accepting to do a randomly selected dungeon for a tome/exp boost. You confirmed your participation in the roulette, if you don't like getting something selected for you, don't use the roulette, select your own dungeon that offers tomes and do that until you max. You're entirely accountable for leaving at the start, you knew you might not get something you like or maybe you would. But just because something doesn't goes your way doesn't mean quit like a spoiled child. Guess what, those other 3 or 7 people might not like it either, but they're going to complete it and get the reward. While you, the quitter, get nothing but a time out for being self centered.

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I said that they semi-force people to do roulette. yes, we can do something else to obtain tomes but they make roulette one of the best ways to obtain tomes.

and if people choose to quit and accept the 30-mins punishment, it's their choice, get over it.

I don't get the issue... people who need tomes should be doing expert roulette anyways, even non-roulette expert dungeons will give so many more than leveling. To me, 'Leveling' roulette is for, well, people leveling who need the xp and/or still need law tomes. In this case, I do think that they should stick with whatever they are given in that Leveling roulette is one of the fastest ways to get leveling xp and law tomes to gear up prior to grinding for esoterics. If people are ditching AV and DD because they're in the Leveling roulette to farm esoteric tomes, then I think they're doing something wrong (though I don't think anyone does leveling roulette for eso tomes..thus the point above about sticking it out since your reward for doing the leveling roulette is the fastest leveling xp reward possible).

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Originally Posted by Evangela

there's no rule that people cannot quit duties.

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Hmm, I wonder why there's a penalty for doing so, then...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Hmm, I wonder why there's a penalty for doing so, then...

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there's an in-game penalty but it's not that people violate ToS or anything.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Hmm, I wonder why there's a penalty for doing so, then...

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Discouragement. Like putting up a fence, well its there to try and stop me, but I can go over it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Hmm, I wonder why there's a penalty for doing so, then...

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To discourage them from doing it lightly. If it was a rule, leaving would be a bannable offense or just not be possible.

It's all irrelevant anyways. If people don't want to participate in a dungeon, they don't have to. Forcing them to remain when they would like to leave means they will just AFK until you kick them, or at best, put in a pitiful effort.