Accuracy: Can it just go away?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Casting Speed:
Decreases the Speed of Casting.

In-combat Mana Regeneration:
Increases Mana restored.

In-combat TP Restoration:
Increases TP restored.

DPS Mod:
Increases the damage of Autoattacks.

Attack Speed:
Lowers the delay of Autoattacks.

AE Autoattack Chance:
Your autoattack has a chance to strikes multiple enemies in-front of you.

Spiked Armor
Deals damage to the enemy when struck.

Hate Gain
Increases Enmity Generated.

Hate Reduction
Lowers Enmity Generated.

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I like some of these, most others would effect things that are already easily managed, and make their connected mechanics too trivial. Some are also already in the game.

(Spell Speed, STR/DEX)

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Originally Posted by Fenwick

I like some of these, most others would effect things that are already easily managed, and make their connected mechanics too trivial. Some are also already in the game.

(Spell Speed, STR/DEX)

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Spell Speed is an attribute that reduces the cast time and cooldown of your spells.

Its a bit different but I really think "Casting Speed", "Reuse Speed" should be percent based and be on gear.

Looking at ariyala's gear guide, easily seen that the current meta gear easily 2-3 out of the 5 pieces stack accuracy for each slot. If you're still not hitting the cap, grab some hq food(which gives bonus to stats along with accuracy) problem solved. If that's too much effort to play the end game content, maybe play another game then more suited to your liking.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Looking at ariyala's gear guide, easily seen that the current meta gear easily 2-3 out of the 5 pieces stack accuracy for each slot. If you're still not hitting the cap, grab some hq food(which gives bonus to stats along with accuracy) problem solved. If that's too much effort to play the end game content, maybe play another game then more suited to your liking.

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It isn't the effort involved sir it is the fact that there is really no reason to have it and it kind of pigeon-holes everyone in the same gear. There is literally "NO" variety of gear or horizontal progression in this game. Everyone is the same.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

It also increases your dot potency, skill speed does it for melee(fracture, etc.)

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Yeah, have tons of it on my Dark Knight and didn't really notice much of a difference.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

A bit off topic:



That's very much true. But speaking as one such people, that makes it all the more challenging, and thus enjoyable.


I've always been of the (personal) opinion that the only truly hard, truly very challenging content is content that you have no guarantee of clearing. Because your not really ment to.
That makes it all the more rewarding if you do manage to clear it despite.
If it's clearable by default however, that means some measure of leanway had to be given to allow for errors, since even the best players in the world cannot sustain 100% perfect play all the time. So as a result it would have been less challenging.

However as you accurately pointed out that means you cant really compare first (undergeared) clearing attempts to clears doing with the ilvl its attuned to.

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Well, the content was made to be cleared by people with less gear then that. They tested it with the max level of able gear and cleared it. It was made to be cleared.

Alexander Savage was cleared the first day it released.

Unlike Everquest and Everquest 2 where content was made literally NOT to be cleared. Most content was cleared only after several months of release. Rallos Zek for example took 2 YEARS FOR PLAYERS to finally beat him.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Spell Speed is an attribute that reduces the cast time and cooldown of your spells.

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It also increases your dot potency, skill speed does it for melee(fracture, etc.)

A bit off topic:

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Some people like to bang their head against stuff that's not supposed to be clearable immediately.

I'm going to guess at intended item level for clear is average 195 minimum, 200 ideal.


No, it means that they didn't intend for us to clear any of it for a number of weeks but tossed it at us for folks that like to bang their heads against things they shouldn't be able to complete.

When it's intended for i200 gear and you're trying to complete it at i185-190, of *course* it's going to be "very hard".

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That's very much true. But speaking as one such people, that makes it all the more challenging, and thus enjoyable.


I've always been of the (personal) opinion that the only truly hard, truly very challenging content is content that you have no guarantee of clearing. Because your not really ment to.
That makes it all the more rewarding if you do manage to clear it despite.
If it's clearable by default however, that means some measure of leanway had to be given to allow for errors, since even the best players in the world cannot sustain 100% perfect play all the time. So as a result it would have been less challenging.

However as you accurately pointed out that means you cant really compare first (undergeared) clearing attempts to clears doing with the ilvl its attuned to.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

There are always certain stats that are better for certain classes than others.

Nothin like being that fire mage that only wants crit, but none of the crit gear was dropping.

Or being the holy paladin that wanted crit but the plate didn't have it so I took the shaman gear.

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Unless multiple options are very good, but in different ways. The game im currently playing right now has skill trees where many of the options are actual viable options, but you need to choose 2 of any 3 possible choices. And only one out of 3 of the final choice. It's also not easy to change your spec there, meaning you have to stick with your choice.

That is one way to make horizontal progress work: by making the choices unique, and making it hard to change them.


Lets say you could get your class a special elemental type enchant that would allow it to give a special (unique type) of buff. Different kinds, but the catch: you would need a really hard to get item to be able to change your chosen buff.
Let's say for the sake of argument that all buffs are equally valued.

Some might even have cosmetic effects as well: it would change your appearance, or the appearance of your abilities animations.


Would this not make 'secondary stats' a lot more interesting?

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Edit: as we see -> They indeed balancing DPS around healer DPS because compared to coil even server first players are struggeling very hard...

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Unless you have an accurate source that you can link that states information other than what has been quoted from SE currently please don't perpetuate misinformation.

Just because a fight is challenging doesn't mean that they are balancing that fight around healer DPS. In fact, they specifically stated:

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This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

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That means they are AWARE that healer DPS will be used by teams whose DPS isn't where it should be for those fights (due to gear/skill level) NOT that the fight was balanced around it.

Server first teams, going into brand new content are going to use every edge possible to clear that content; it's meant to be difficult when you go in without the ilvl the fight might have been tuned for. This means that their tanks are stance dancing to push more DPS, their healers will DPS, the DPS are likely performing far above and beyond what an average player is while also using food, optimized rotations etc.

This quote from Erim-Nelhah perfectly sums it up:

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Originally Posted by Erim-Nelhah

I read that as being something like this: "We've designed endgame raids (like Alex Savage) around players having a certain ilvl (200?). In doing so, we took the dps that the DDs+Tanks are expected be able to do during that fight, subtracted 10-15%, and used that to set the enrage timers. If your team's average ilvl is below the ilvl we designed the fight for, and your Tanks + DDs can't come up with the DPS required because of it, your healers may be able to dps as a last resort to make up the difference."

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Last time I checked, mmos are about vertical progression.

And gear are stat sticks to begin with. If you're looking for variety, play table top D&D. Otherwise you're just gonna have to glam up the current meta. Welcome to mmos.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

And gear are stat sticks to begin with. If you're looking for variety, play table top D&D. Otherwise you're just gonna have to glam up the current meta. Welcome to mmos.

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Mostly all MMOs are based off DnD.

Also, I think you "missed" the topic. =P

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It isn't the effort involved sir it is the fact that there is really no reason to have it and it kind of pigeon-holes everyone in the same gear. There is literally "NO" variety of gear or horizontal progression in this game. Everyone is the same.


Yeah, have tons of it on my Dark Knight and didn't really notice much of a difference.



Well, the content was made to be cleared by people with less gear then that. They tested it with the max level of able gear and cleared it. It was made to be cleared.

Alexander Savage was cleared the first day it released.

Unlike Everquest and Everquest 2 where content was made literally NOT to be cleared. Most content was cleared only after several months of release. Rallos Zek for example took 2 YEARS FOR PLAYERS to finally beat him.

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They finally got Rallos then? Holy shit. Haven't been paying attention.

And no, Savage wasn't cleared day one. First floor, sure. That's not the whole thing.

As of yesterday, A4 hasn't been cleared. And yes, I remember folks not even killing most trash in Plane of War(EQ2) until after Skyshrine.

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That is one way to make horizontal progress work: by making the choices unique, and making it hard to change them.

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The more choice there is, the more work needs to be put into balance, because if any given combination of those things is better than the others, there *will* be complaints and there *will* be outrage. No one wants to gimp themselves performance wise in favor of flavor, especially when you want to do anything remotely serious in the game. Plenty of end game players won't take you anywhere if you don't show some semblance of taking the game(a hobby) seriously enough to give a damn about not intentionally handicapping yourself.

The more classes there are, the harder this becomes.

why have stats at all? They're un-fun, un-necessary, and should be removed entirely.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Spell Speed is an attribute that reduces the cast time and cooldown of your spells.

Its a bit different but I really think "Casting Speed", "Reuse Speed" should be percent based and be on gear.

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Spell Speed doesn't affect cooldowns. Percentage based reductions are already in the game in the form of buffs.

Accuracy is a problem because to play well you have to have a 100% hit rate. The style of the combat doesn't work well if you can miss due to stats (as opposed to player placement or similar mechanics). Everyone knows why missing 1-5% of the time is much worse than a 1-5% DPS loss so I won't get into it. Currently there's no reason to not cap accuracy if you can help it at all. Similarly bad for design, there's absolutely no benefit for going over the cap. No diminishing returns or anything, just wasted stat points -- not that you could hit anything more than 100% of the time.

I'd prefer to alleviate the problem by combining accuracy with critical hit rate (perhaps a name change to 'precision' or something) leaving critical hit damage as it's own stat. The way it would work is that below the cap you wouldn't miss, but there'd be a chance that you deal a glancing blow instead, dealing some portion of the normal damage. Above the cap you would no longer deal glancing blows and would instead deal critical hits more regularly (there'd still be a chance to deal a critical hit below cap as well).

That way the stat would have a 'safe' point, but there would be value in continuing to invest in it. Being below the cap would certainly be bad for your DPS, but it wouldn't wreck your rotation.

EDIT: sorry if this was previously suggested, I only read a couple of pages.

Next thing you know, people will want an "Instant Win" Abiliity.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Next thing you know, people will want an "Instant Win" Abiliity.

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^^^ it's sad really

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Looking at ariyala's gear guide, easily seen that the current meta gear easily 2-3 out of the 5 pieces stack accuracy for each slot. If you're still not hitting the cap, grab some hq food(which gives bonus to stats along with accuracy) problem solved. If that's too much effort to play the end game content, maybe play another game then more suited to your liking.

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You -do- realize you don't get the gear all at once, right? It's gated by eso tomes, manifestos, and drop RNG.

choose your upgrades appropriately, if you know you won't have the accuracy when you replace a piece then hold off on it and get something else.

Just because you can't plan your stat budgets doesn't mean accuracy should be deleted, it means you should look more closely at your stats and which item to buy in which order.

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Originally Posted by Renault

You -do- realize you don't get the gear all at once, right? It's gated by eso tomes, manifestos, and drop RNG.

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#nosh**sherlock point is you can hit anything in expert roulette in 170, anything in ex trials/Alex normal in 180, then and 185-90 sets you up for savage progression( of course food taken into account; who raids without food?) so the vertical profession works. You swapping out that new SA1 ring shouldn't detriment you enough to ask that accuracy be obsolete.

Funny thing: My second job is WAR which is in full Law gear, and with VIT accessories I'll frequently miss in Neverreap's last boss. An iLvl 145 dungeon. Fine, I'll wear STR accessories if you really want me to.

Imo, with how the combat is in this game, where unlike in WoW and such we aren't just mashing one button to get a bunch of DPS out and we have to link combos together to do any damage, and if we don't we lose our timed buffs which make us do no damage and such.... Accuracy shouldn't be a factor imo. We should instead have some other form of growth for our characters on the gear, or just fill the accuracy gap with other side stats. Especially since side stats hold so little value now anyways. Would be a tiny dps boost to just erase accuracy and give everyone determination in its place. lol

Time for the stat system to evolve with the new complexity added to the games combat imo!!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Rallos Zek for example took 2 YEARS FOR PLAYERS to finally beat him.

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Only 2 years? That's cute.

This guy has something to say about that.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...n_1_(FFXI).png

All secondary stats besides crit still needs overhaul(crit is pretty much way to go atm)and skillspeed is now worse than before. Acc serves little to no purpose and its just there to piss you off, so get rid of it and add something new while reworking rest of secondaries so players actually want to use them instead ignoring them like a plague(looking at you parry and skillspeed).

Im suprised they didnt merge skill and spell speed to be universal Haste stat, with carefull tweaking it could have reduced skill recast and increased auto-attack speed makeing it actually a wanted stat, also why not add retaliation with small potency on parry? so tanks would actually have a stat for them instead rolling with same stats as dps jobs.

It pisses me off all the time when a new piece of gear has Accuracy & Skill Speed on it.

and the Ninja AF2 body has Accuracy & Skill Speed... I want to burn it down.

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Originally Posted by seekified

Funny thing: My second job is WAR which is in full Law gear, and with VIT accessories I'll frequently miss in Neverreap's last boss. An iLvl 145 dungeon. Fine, I'll wear STR accessories if you really want me to.

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cause his evasion goes up the more stacks it has. everyone will miss a hit now and then on him