Meracydia/Miqo'te/Azys La speculations (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

The foil hat theory is that this is the Allagan symbol for Menphina. There were two moons and when they launched Dalamud they decided the lesser moon's orbit would be a perfect place to put it so they somehow got rid of Menphina's loyal hound.

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Well, I hold to the fact that there were once two moons, but the smaller detached from orbit and flew off while carrying with it a slumbering race.
The vacated spot would be just right...

If there was just something to connect those events to Eorzea somehow. Maybe a legend of a certain dragoon who forsake his duties of honor for love... ;D

The repetition of the 'Az(e)y' sound in the name Azeyma and the island Azys Lla suggests to me that the facility may even have been named after her.

I don't know about Azyema. Allagans strike me as extreme form of Byregot worshippers. The God of craftsmanship, stretched to the limit to include SCIENCE!!1 under his umbrella. Azys Lla was also protected by a Lightning-aspected barrier, which is his element....

Azyema ruins could have been

1. Meracydian. The temple, the said such and the Vesper Bay ruins are completely unlike current understanding of Allag architecture. Plus, it may be the case that scientists kept the temple and aqueduct to enhance the habitat for captured natives, like you would a terrarium. Its even got a nasty hook inside the dome--maybe a sigh of disrespect.

2. Worship for only a minority, I.e. the royalty to confirm legitimacy of rule. But we would see more of her symbols in Crystal Tower...

3. From an older time in Allagan history. The empire lasted for a while, after all.

It may have been brought up already, but I wonder:

If Miqo'te are related directly to the Allagans then perhaps their current selective breeding practices are a remnant of genetic engineering? I envision the Allagan as encouraging the races they experimented with/created to breed with the best possible option to keep their race strong.

It wouldn't be out of the question to gene splice yourself, either!

Maybe the reason why there are so few male Miqo'te being born is due to a failed Allagan Gene experimentation and the side effect is less "Y" chromosome-carrying sperm?

The cathedral could also have been dragon made in collaboration with the dragons and the early allagons/other inhabitants before bahumat's betrayal?

I mean the Dravanian dragons built towers and all these other jazz.

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Originally Posted by JepMZ

The cathedral could also have been dragon made in collaboration with the dragons and the early allagons/other inhabitants before bahumat's betrayal?

I mean the Dravanian dragons built towers and all these other jazz.

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They dont. All those structures were made by spoken races, aka mankind. On dravania/ churing mists, all those structures were made by man, not by dragons

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

They dont. All those structures were made by spoken races, aka mankind. On dravania/ churing mists, all those structures were made by man, not by dragons

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Agreed. Those structures were built by the "Landlords," the tribes of Elezen that were friendly with the dragons, or "Skylords," after Shiva was eaten by Hraesvelgr. They were monuments to the peaceful coexistence of dragons and man, but were primarily built by mankind, likely with some dragon help.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Agreed. Those structures were built by the "Landlords," the tribes of Elezen that were friendly with the dragons, or "Skylords," after Shiva was eaten by Hraesvelgr. They were monuments to the peaceful coexistence of dragons and man, but were primarily built by mankind, likely with some dragon help.

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yea, by no having dinner time with man and probablly bringing some materias, but not participating on the contruction xD

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It may have been brought up already, but I wonder:

If Miqo'te are related directly to the Allagans then perhaps their current selective breeding practices are a remnant of genetic engineering? I envision the Allagan as encouraging the races they experimented with/created to breed with the best possible option to keep their race strong.

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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people, even IRL, who would jump at the chance at producing catgirls once we have the capabilities :p

There's a certain dubiously-famous Japanese visual novel in which humanity, in order to better survive in post-apocalyptic conditions after some unspecified disaster, ended up gene-splicing humanity with cats to produce a new race that, among other things, exceeded humanity in inherent athletic ability and was able to go for days at a time without eating. Add in a snarky catboy protagonist with memory issues who unwillingly inherited some sort of special purpose from both the precursor race and his (asshole) father and it starts feeling very familiar...

But that would be entirely too silly a thing for a mainstream game to reference intentionally, not to mention there are already tiny snippets of lore that suggest that all the spoken races have existed since at least the First Astral Era, long before the Allagan Empire. But since cultural memory rarely, if ever, survives a Calamity entirely intact, it's hard to know for sure. Dalamud says "hi."

Just throwing this out there. description of the Crozier from the Alchemist quests:

Though labeled a crozier by the Sons of Saint Coinach who unearthed the relic, it is unlikely this crooked staff was used for religious purposes, as it is well documented that most late Third Astral Era Allagans abandoned the theological in order to pursue the technological.

Intersting points is it shows that the Allagans where religious initially until the pursuit of technology changed their path. But it also states that most, not all, abandoned Religion.

Which puts out an interesting idea. Was the uprising within the Allagan empire caused by conflicts in beliefs between the still existing Theologicans and the Technologists?

If the temple at Azys Lla was original Allagan before they followed the pursuit of technology, could it have been ripped from the ground along with the rest to finally put religion behind them, to make a statement that Technology is more powerful than religion? Could it have been, as Theologicans may see it as defilement, one, if not THE, spark that initiated conflict (assuming there was one) between the 2, for want of a better term, factions?

Addendum:
The Crozier was used to "create life" by the Allagans. Imagine a religious order finding out that they were delving into the "realm of gods".

It may be conjecture based on limited knowledge, but I dont think it is unfeasible either.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

But that would be entirely too silly a thing for a mainstream game to reference intentionally, not to mention there are already tiny snippets of lore that suggest that all the spoken races have existed since at least the First Astral Era, long before the Allagan Empire. But since cultural memory rarely, if ever, survives a Calamity entirely intact, it's hard to know for sure. Dalamud says "hi."

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Can we even be sure any of the currently known spoken races were around in the first astral era?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Can we even be sure any of the currently known spoken races were around in the first astral era?

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Yes Hyurs and Elezens, they were tribes. I suspect that those 2 races, not just Hyur were allagans. Amon looks like an elezen, check his ears

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Can we even be sure any of the currently known spoken races were around in the first astral era?

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A particular unreleased lore snippet (from the scrapped Lore loading screens) mentions that some Keeper family names have been passed down from the First Astral Era. So that "confirms" the existence of Miqo'te in those days, but only as well as well as Dalamud was "known" to have always existed (before space-time itself was retconned by a certain Wandering Minstrel).

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Can we even be sure any of the currently known spoken races were around in the first astral era?

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It's likely that they were. Racial tension could very well been the arguments that caused the First Umbral Era, ending the Age of Gods. We do know that legend says the Twelve ended it when the tribes began to war with one another, which could be done easily between races that were only then "tribes." The conflict could have caused them to spread out across Hydaelyn, and forget about one another for a while at least.

Kind of a side note: We also know the Ascians take credit for that Calamity, so maybe they caused the arguing or at least helped it along? Twelve Ascians taking credit of the Calamity, the Twelve ending the Age of Gods... I feel like there's a connection somehow... But I don't know in what way...

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Kind of a side note: We also know the Ascians take credit for that Calamity, so maybe they caused the arguing or at least helped it along?

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I think the Ascians try to take credit for all the Calamities, don't they? Even though most of the stories we know, even first-person accounts, don't include any mentions of shady robed figures.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I think the Ascians try to take credit for all the Calamities, don't they? Even though most of the stories we know, even first-person accounts, don't include any mentions of shady robed figures.

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That's the point of them though, right? To manipulate unseen and unknown, but cause great strife. At least that seems to be their MO.

Clearly the only way to satisfy everyone on this matter is to harness the energy of the Crystal Tower to open a time portal to the end of the Third Astral Era for our very own Wings of the Goddess-type time-travel adventure, battling Ascians in the twilight of the Allagan Empire!

;)

(I'd much prefer a Chrono Trigger-style jaunt through multiple calamities, actually, given a choice. There are so many other interesting periods to explore, even though the superadvanced self-destructing precursor race is kind of the gift that keeps on giving in a magipunk setting like FFXIV's.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Clearly the only way to satisfy everyone on this matter is to harness the energy of the Crystal Tower to open a time portal to the end of the Third Astral Era for our very own Wings of the Goddess-type time-travel adventure, battling Ascians in the twilight of the Allagan Empire!

;)

(I'd much prefer a Chrono Trigger-style jaunt through multiple calamities, actually, given a choice. There are so many other interesting periods to explore, even though the superadvanced self-destructing precursor race is kind of the gift that keeps on giving in a magipunk setting like FFXIV's.)

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Well you wouldn't need a time portal. It'd just need to be an entire expansion set in a 1.0-styled Echo flashback.

Considering Azys Lla is pretty much the Floating Continent from Final Fantasy VI, their creations are actually quite similar.

In Final Fantasy VI, we see the Floating Continent being raised by The Empire to harness the power of The Warring Triad.

In Final Fantasy XIV, we find the Floating Continent which had already been raised by the Allagan Empire to harness the power of The Warring Triad.

Also, The Garleans didn't create Magitek, they found it. Pretty much all of their advancements in technology has come from their excavation of the Allag Empire. They found Ultima Weapon, which was a weapon of Allag, and you can even find Proto-Ultima in Azys Lla. Which, if you didn't notice, bears a strikingly similar color scheme to that of Atma Weapon from Final Fantasy VI. Not to mention, The Warring Triad in Azys Lla is identical to the version you find in Final Fantasy VI.

I'm just waiting on Kefka's Tower to show up because that would be the most amazing raid ever.

To fight Kefka... Oh my gods that would make me cry.

i think on E3 of 2014, in the liev letter they said they wanted to make some more ff villians from other games BUT not exactly the character or so, i think the example was actually kefka. as it is from another universe.

i think, if we fight kefka, it will be alot difrent from VI thou. (but then, we got warring triad) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I'm just waiting on Kefka's Tower to show up because that would be the most amazing raid ever.

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If anything, it'll be Regula van Hydrus' Tower in this game.

Basically, if you see a set of roman numerals in this game, chances are whatever they're attached to will be a walking tribute to that game... Who summoned King Thordan and gave us a Knights of the Round Primal fight? Thordan VII. Who gave us several tributes to Sephiroth, including a walk through flames and meteor project? Nael van Darnus, Legate of the VIIth Legion. He even perhaps had mommy issues in the end... Heck, Gaius van Belsar even emulated this... Legate of the XIVth Legion, he'd be unique to Final Fantasy XIV, right? Well... Final Fantasy XIV is happily taking elements from the past games now, and that translated into Gaius van Belsar literally copying the last Legate we faced - Nael van Darnus.

Regula van Hydrus, then, being Legate of the VIth Legion, should be shoving Final Fantasy VI down our collective necks, and sure enough there's the Warring Triad... I'd be willing to bet we'll see a reference to the Magitek Knights in the coming months, that was the process that drove Kefka a bit mad, and you know the Garleans would be interested in such a process; They cannot cast magic. If they don't find a way in Azys Lla to augment themselves with Magitek in order to cast magic, with the process turning Regula insane, I'll eat my hat...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Regula van Hydrus, then, being Legate of the VIth Legion, should be shoving Final Fantasy VI down our collective necks, and sure enough there's the Warring Triad... I'd be willing to bet we'll see a reference to the Magitek Knights in the coming months, that was the process that drove Kefka a bit mad, and you know the Garleans would be interested in such a process; They cannot cast magic. If they don't find a way in Azys Lla to augment themselves with Magitek in order to cast magic, with the process turning Regula insane, I'll eat my hat...

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I agree, I also think that Regula will try to infuse himself with Aether which will then drive him insane. Regula is VERY ruthless, razing an entire city-state just to prove a point, very Kefka-like. It seems like Regula REALLY doesn't want to fail the Emperor, too bad he did and I can only imagine him feeling terrible at the events that took place and will do everything he can to win back Solus' favor

Tangentially related, and I'm not sure if something like this has been made before, but is this where Meracydia is on the globe?

http://www.caranaworld.com/overlap.jpg

(not mine and shamelessly taken from Reddit)

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Originally Posted by Daralii

is this where Meracydia is on the globe?

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Theoretically, yeah. I used every single resource released so far (in-game, Lodestone, trailers, website, Reddit posts) detailing map positions and coastlines to make an as-of-today map of Hydaelyn. I'm up to about 50% of the sphere's surface.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKzopK2WEAA9Ff_.png:large

Meracydia seems like the best-fit assumption for that island, though it's a lot larger of a landmass than I expected given that I can't seem to find anything to assume is Sharlayan aside from that small island under the marker on the Ironheart map (which is one of the references used for this image).

the new world is othard right? i mean, technicly it would be there no? but to be honest i never heard it being called as that.

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Originally Posted by -Krypyonite-

the new world is othard right? i mean, technicly it would be there no? but to be honest i never heard it being called as that.

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No, Othard is far to the east, and the New World is to the west. And somewhere in the middle (or to the far west end of the New World) has something with iron giants, as per Au Ra lore. Until I see a full map, I'll still consider it confusing.

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Originally Posted by -Krypyonite-

the new world is othard right? i mean, technicly it would be there no? but to be honest i never heard it being called as that.

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It's very loosely modeled on Earth's geography as far as I know. Eorzea is west Europe and the Sahara, Illsabard is east Europe, Othard is Asia, the New World is the Americas. Meracydia would be sub-Saharan Africa I guess.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It's very loosely modeled on Earth's geography as far as I know. Eorzea is west Europe and the Sahara, Illsabard is east Europe, Othard is Asia, the New World is the Americas. Meracydia would be sub-Saharan Africa I guess.

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Correct. We're missing the chunk of "Asia" where we'd find Othard. We've got from Europe up to about the beginning of Russia as far as Ilsabard is concerned. Meracydia seems to be the southern half of Africa but broken off, while Thavnair seems to be the area formerly comprising the Ottoman Empire, but similarly broken off into its own island.

I'm also not ready to accept it as coincidence that Silvertear Lake is not far from the area of Africa we'd call the Cradle of Life.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Theoretically, yeah. I used every single resource released so far (in-game, Lodestone, trailers, website, Reddit posts) detailing map positions and coastlines to make an as-of-today map of Hydaelyn. I'm up to about 50% of the sphere's surface.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKzopK2WEAA9Ff_.png:large

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I think Isalbard is further north, I know one of the many inspirations of the Eorzea/garlean situation is Greece and Persia.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

I think Isalbard is further north

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I think it's an effect of the globe being projected on a flat surface instead of a sphere. If you wrap it back around half the globe, that line across the top of Eorzea and Islabard is a lot less horizontal. Ever seen one of those world maps where Antarctica is a horizontal behemoth across the bottom of the entire planet? I think it's like that, because I didn't do much guesswork on the coastlines - I did, however, trace them from an image that had been subjected to a lot of sharpness, brightness, and contrast editing, so some of the lines could be slightly off, as well, lol.

I'm dumb and made a silly mistake

in the ending u can see the planet of eorzea
http://i61.tinypic.com/5bspp5.jpg

it seems that the dev team has the whole plant map

that i can speculate

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Originally Posted by fireslash

in the ending u can see the planet of eorzea
http://i61.tinypic.com/5bspp5.jpg

it seems that the dev team has the whole plant map

that i can speculate

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That's a maybe. We don't see quite a lot of the map, so they may have left it dark so they have wiggle room.

Also, it's either the planet of Hydaelyn, or continent of Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Also, it's either the planet of Hydaelyn, or continent of Eorzea.

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Technically, lol, It's the planet Hydaelyn, continent Aldenard and realm/region of the the three city-states that is named Eorzea.

After doing Qarn repeatedly to level up my AST, I started noticing similarites between Qarn architecture with that of The Cathedral in Azys Lla. While the masonry is similar, the most important part, aside from Azeyma's symbol, are the smaller design imprinted on the stone:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/2cc2d6309...vhco4_1280.png
The glyphs to the right:
http://eorzeareborn.com/wp-content/u.../09/Qarn-8.jpg

yeah and not only that, the border of the wall (dont know the name in english) has the same pattern but well, anonymoose had already said that in the first pages of the thread, but thanks for the pictures!