So, I hate to open up this can of worms again, but....

I do not kick people on a regular basis, more often than not it isn't based on numbers, but rather their behavior or being offline.

Many people seem to want to use the parser not from an educational standpoint, which is why i have concerns for a party wide parser, or anyone that would demand numbers in a df party to kick someone else.

As a dps,it is the ease of parties ripping each other apart that concerns me.

I main WHM, and it is very obvious, even without a parser, when group dps is sub-par. For example the final boss in Fractal -- if there are 5-7 adds running around and tons of squares lighting up...that's a bad sign, as is pretty much any death on any boss in the current experts. I know I can keep up with tanks even when they pull multi-groups, and the very first death ever on any expert dungeon happened the other night in Fractal. Six or more adds were up, dps died numerous times, then I died...I was amazed. Asking the tank friend I always pug with, and the top place dps was doing 620 or so, while the 2nd was sitting at 565. Even without getting these, it would be plain to see that the dps was lacking.

I'm all for parsers for everyone, but I see how they could be abused. What I'd suggest is having a parser show up only after the instance had ended (unless it is a full pre-made) and everyone had left. After they zone out, a popup window comes up showing everyones dps. This way, people wouldn't be kicked, but could see whether or not they were up to par. Of course, those who can and do use parsers now could still do this, but it may help those on PS4, etc. Just some thoughts.

**Edit: This is assuming those who see subpar results even care about improving -- if they don't, not much you can do...sadly**

I would love a personal parser but I think people have to understand where the apprehension towards a party-wide meter is coming from. Since I usually performed high on the meters in the groups I ran with in other games I was rarely harassed but there was some harassment that occured. The big problem with the meters I think is that it turns killing a boss into a pissing contest between the DPS in a group. No longer is the objective to kill the boss, it's to do better than your own party members. A definite competition sets in for them in a way it doesn't for healers or tanks. If you are not a naturally competitive person this can feel stressful. If you are looked at as a number instead of a tank or a healer it feels dehumanizing. It can, and WILL, if introduced lead to bad behavior especially early on. I remember when we first got popular meter addons in WoW, people just acted like idiots. Rogues and feral druids would refuse to switch targets because they were bent on getting off a 5cp finisher so adds caused all sorts of issues. Additionally, people were jumping in too soon, bursting at the beginning of a fight, not cutting off dots before threat wipes (like Hydross)...all because they wanted to be at the top of the meter. Congratulations, we wiped but you certainly did rock those meters because you used your long, massive cooldowns early instead of saving them for an execution phase.

Meters can screw with class populations too. When everyone knows what dps class performs highest (because everyone will have the tools to figure it out) everyone will flock there. Not a huge problem, really, but some might find it annoying.

Actual damage meters will absolutely cause some deep changes in our little community. It's completely silly to say they won't. That said, they can still be used as a valuable tool especially for hardcore statics and they will not be abused as much as people think. They won't make jerks out of people who weren't jerks already. They WILL give said jerks a megaphone, though, so you'd have to brace yourselves for that.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

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It's easier to just ban the morons who use it to harass others. No sense in punishing the people who actually want to improve. They could also just officially allow any third party ones that are around providing they aren't used to harass anyone.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

... When they act like tools ...

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http://i.imgur.com/hH8853c.png

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Too bad it seems that people act like they're the best or just don't want to listen to you for whatever reason happens more often than not when you try to help or give any hints to them. Nothing went wrong because of this, but I felt kind of sad seeing Provoke being used on cooldown regardless of the situation. 'Twas the first and last time I mentioned it.

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I really wanted to mention it again after we killed the last boss.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

http://i.imgur.com/hH8853c.png

┐(゜へ゜；)┌

Too bad it seems that people act like they're the best or just don't want to listen to you for whatever reason happens more often than not when you try to help or give any hints to them. Nothing went wrong because of this, but I felt kind of sad seeing Provoke being used on cooldown regardless of the situation. 'Twas the first and last time I mentioned it.

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I really wanted to mention it again after we killed the last boss.

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This.

Sometimes (almost everytime) you try to help, but it ends exactly like this.

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Originally Posted by Khyan

An official parser is not needed. The actual parser is tolerated if you use it for your static or yourself. Just don't use it for blame other people.

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And what about ps4 players?
Sure it's great if you are on PC, but this creates a huge rift between the machines.
Wanna join a savage static, please post your parse from "some fight" in your application, well damn seems like I'm not gonna be able to join them.
How frustrating it is to see that there are people who know what their dps is for most fights and PS players just sit there like: "well maybe I have enough dps for savage maybe I don't." ._.
The negatives of a parser are already in the game guys, not having access to an official personal parser only makes it worse. Either SE needs to strictly put their foot down and and really ban the parsers or offer one that everyone can use.

I agree. I would like to analyse my own numbers (even though i am raid sch) and see where i can improve.

might as well.

I mean the argument against them is that they promote exclusion.. but people are being excluded anyway so whats the difference?

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Originally Posted by Havenae

might as well.

I mean the argument against them is that they promote exclusion.. but people are being excluded anyway so whats the difference?

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More then that argument however as a tool and only a tool it's fine, problem comes when players get tunnel vision and only focus on numbers and not avoiding the shit onthe floor or even basic adds. Can have high dps, but ignoring a mechanic can wipe the raid or party. Exclusion just happens iwth or without them btw. If a player feels they are low dps and can't figure out how to get higher parser will work great for them.

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Originally Posted by Meya

More then that argument however as a tool and only a tool it's fine, problem comes when players get tunnel vision and only focus on numbers and not avoiding the shit onthe floor or even basic adds. Can have high dps, but ignoring a mechanic can wipe the raid or party. Exclusion just happens iwth or without them btw. If a player feels they are low dps and can't figure out how to get higher parser will work great for them.

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To be fair if we removed every single tool that could be abused in some way might as well remove chat since people use it to throw insults at each other.

Yes there will be idiots that tunnel vision dps over mechanics, but not allowing a tool that can and will help a numerous amount of people is silly.

Honestly the best would be a tool ingame that only shows yours but in a premade group the leader can toggle it for everyone. That way no bickering in DF yet statics can compare all they want.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

To be fair if we removed every single tool that could be abused in some way might as well remove chat since people use it to throw insults at each other.

Yes there will be idiots that tunnel vision dps over mechanics, but not allowing a tool that can and will help a numerous amount of people is silly.

Honestly the best would be a tool ingame that only shows yours but in a premade group the leader can toggle it for everyone. That way no bickering in DF yet statics can compare all they want.

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The best DPS will always be the ones who do mechanics while performing at an optimal level. Sadly those players are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by Badkarma

The best DPS will always be the ones who do mechanics while performing at an optimal level. Sadly those players are few and far between.

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True but there is an issue here.

Because of the parsers being "forbidden" its legally not possible to perform optimally.
Who knows there might be a way for jobs to do more dps but they don't know it if they don't have the statistics required.

I would really like one for my own personal use, simply to judge how I'm doing.