Hardcore, easy mode and the XI veteran

i dont mind anything to be long/hard, only hated leveling and WALKING loooooong distances to reach the entrance of the dungeon (aka xarcabard thing)

other than that, long missions/quests/tiered NMs are cool

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Neptune, I honestly never thought the day would come when we saw eye-to-eye on something.



Glad you liked it. Some people didn't. I think it bothered them for some reason.

PS: I learned how to use derp from the master, YoshiP.

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If we agree on that what could we possibly disagree on? XD

Also did Yoshi-P really say derp?

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

It seems the OP played FFXI for seven years despite finding no challenge in it.

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A challenge or lack thereof wasn't the only reason to play FFXI. I played for the sense of adventure, the scenery, and the story.

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

It seems the OP played FFXI for seven years despite finding no challenge in it. I'm sorry to hear that.

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He didn't say that, and as he just pointed out, some people can enjoy something without there being a need for a 'challenge' in any case; something the 'achievers' never understand.

<3 at OP post.. TOO LONG OMG you should of made it as 5 or 6 posts back to back fast BUT it was a nice read and i agree with most. (i did skim read it however i think i got the basic concept ^.^) like button clicked

@OP..

Well written! Agreed 100%. I used to play FFXI and me and my friends always refer to the dev as the immortals. Why? because no human is insane enough to come up with those time sinks and still consider aging, having a life, work...etc.

@OP Sorry but I agree Hardcore=/timeskin but what you call "timesink" is not always useless and is sometimes really fun. I loved time waiting for NM to pop and stress while seeing every other campers. And I loved the feeling when you got the claim! If you make everything fast, what will everyone do IG? Devs will have to put new content every month??

Plus, idk what you did in IX, but saying XI is only time sink and there was nothing hard and no skill required.... can't agree with that. Put a crappy WHM on HNM/events in XI, your pt wipe for sure. Put a crappy CON on "HNM" in XIV, you have 95% chances of making it...

I read the OP, I'm not going to read anything else in this thread, because I am certain it's nothing more than mass quantities of butthurt.

But the OP gets +1. Excellent post.

._. another thread trying to drive our community further apart. this rules.

Most people only had 1-3 75 jobs, because of how long it took to get there. The idea is, since those are the only ones you can bring to endgame, and the only ones you are investing your acquired gear into, generally speaking, you're going to be "better" at those jobs than you would that you just...had.

Take away FFXI's leveling process (which they did) and give everyone level 90's from the start. You have every job at your disposal, but you tend to lean towards the support jobs. Bard, Corsair, what have you. Now, someone pulls you aside and asks what jobs you have, and you say "Well, all of them!". "Good, you'll be tanking AV tonight". *gulp*. Do you really think you'll be as effective as the PLD across the way who has invested all his time and effort into perfecting his job, the only job he's leveled? Even the realistic goals, getting Empyrean Armor +2, maxing merits, maxing magic skills, maxing Trial weapons? Even excluding a relic, mythic, emp, defending ring, whatever those major pieces are these days.

I know that is one extreme pov... I just wish people would stop putting down FFXI. It's getting annoying and hardly ever well thought out. There are negatives to the way they did things but a lot of benefits, too, and I'm not the only person who feels that way. FFXI was designed so that a jack of all trades would ultimately, over the same amount of time as a specialist, shouldn't be able to outdo said specialist, in terms of gear, practice, merits. The specialist would then have an easier time experiencing all the game had to offer.

So, with a leveling system that allows you to quite realistically level everything to the max, the game is going to be easier. It has to be. Otherwise, those that for some reason enjoy the freedom to play whatever job they want in whatever endgame event they want, regardless of how well the are doing it, wouldn't have a chance. I'm not a hardcore player, even I don't want anyone held back. But I like specializing, specifically, I love support jobs (I was thrilled when I found out Arc was gonna be Barc).

Is this making sense? FFXI, by forcing specialization, more or less leveled the playing field. Generally speaking, if you spent 6 months on Drg, you're going to be better at it than if you spent 1 month each on Drg, Whm, Brd, Rng, Blu, and Sch. Please note the "generally speaking". Since I plan on specializing in those support jobs and putting all my effort, money, and gear into those, I now have to hope that Yoshi does a good job of making the content difficult enough that it wont be a cakewalk for me and others like me, but wont be impossible for those "casuals" or "generalists" who aren't all that great.

I'm starting to sound like a dick... And I wasn't trying to. Just trying to find a point. Sorry.

Great post OP and I totally agree

Good post... Always hear 11 and hard in the same sentence... yet it's just one huge timesink and incredibly shallow/slow (Still a good mmo, just incredibly flawed!). The only thing hard about it was staying awake while waiting for a nm to pop or during a hour or longer fight lmao. 11 was an incredibly easy mmo that was only hard to those who don't know the meaning of difficult or think that timesinks = immersion/difficulty!

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Originally Posted by Misha

Good post... Always hear 11 and hard in the same sentence... yet it's just one huge timesink and incredibly shallow/slow (Still a good mmo, just incredibly flawed!). The only thing hard about it was staying awake while waiting for a nm to pop or during a hour or longer fight lmao. 11 was an incredibly easy mmo that was only hard to those who don't know the meaning of difficult or think that timesinks = immersion/difficulty!

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Then again we are talking about how MMO gamers these days thinks that having everything handed to you on a silver platter = good MMO, plus anything that takes more than 10 minutes to do nowadays is considered a timesink to the new generation of MMO gamers.

The only timesink in FFXI was Salvage, everything else was player's just being lazy. No other event had such a bad drop rate that you can literally do it for a year just for a CHANCE to get a bad drop rate. No one like Salvage setup. Anyone that does clearly didn't go after Ares gear.

Dynamis for example? Relic armor has such a ridiculously high drop rate I always walk out with at least 10 pieces of even highly sought after gear (Hi, Duelist Chapeau every Dynamis-Xarc run.)

"We're talking about old dynamis!"

If we can't say XI's bad condition on its 2002 launch is why XIV's sucked as "Thats a 10 year old game, this is a 2010 game", you're not allowed to talk about 2004's Dynamis, nor anything SE has long since adjusted that in all of these "XI is bad!" topics people love to forget as they know it kills their arguments.

Btw, for those that don't know~

In FFXIV these are considered time sinks:

Guildleves
Leveling
Collecting Marks
Collecting Seals
Anima restoration
Collecting Aetherytes and Nodes
Crafting
Materia given information

..oh look at that, XIV is also a time sink. This is why people need to lay off of the word timesink and it's liberal usage, because if anything, XIV is more of a timesink than XI ever was.

I never had to collect a type of currency to unlock a job trait in FFXI. See? MMOs are designed to waste your time, that's their purpose or they would never last multiple years.

very well said, i ended up reading the entire thing (had to stop crafting for this one)

the problem with XI was that if you werent there for the hours you put in, you werent getting jack, and if you were like me who started the game a few years late, you got bummed. why? cuz no one wanted to do anything anymore, they just wanted end gear, end content, and everything else was squash.. i hope this game lets us take advantage of everything placed,

and when the community flourishes well still have reasons to go back and rerun the older areas.

thank you OP for the great editorial /thumbsup

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Originally Posted by Misha

Good post... Always hear 11 and hard in the same sentence... yet it's just one huge timesink and incredibly shallow/slow (Still a good mmo, just incredibly flawed!). The only thing hard about it was staying awake while waiting for a nm to pop or during a hour or longer fight lmao. 11 was an incredibly easy mmo that was only hard to those who don't know the meaning of difficult or think that timesinks = immersion/difficulty!

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XI was far from just being "one huge timesink". Actually.. I guess that is how YOU, the OP, and some others who agreed with the OP 'played' XI. You all choose to run with groups who did things in a very casual manner. Perhaps they were your friends or whatever, but that was your choice. I was in a few different LS's over the years and never felt once I was participating in an event that was a 'timesink'.

Like Jenn said Salvage was just about the only real event that was actually designed to be a timesink in XI. For that reason, from the very beginning I chose not to run Salvage for gear, and would just occasionally go only when my LS needed me. Other possible timesink's in XI could include Relic and Mythic weapons, another thing that alot of people just decided from the start they weren't going to try for. There was nothing wrong with them being in game, and there were plenty of other great viable weapons out there.. but if you wanted it, you could work for it. The fact that so many of the 'gamers' in this thread are claiming that most events were a timesink is a complete JOKE.

Jenn already described how Dynamis truely was.. despite everyone's crying in this thread. I had so much Dyna gear, and within a few months I already had every piece needed for my 5 jobs.. after that I just started collecting the gear noone else wanted. It wasn't even a timesink after I got all my gear because Dyna regulary funded all my jobs because I sold the currency after each run.

HNMs.. clearly if you were in some ragtag group trying to compete against established HNM shells, yes you would probably feel as though it's just a timesink. Again, you chose to run with a casual group and compete against hardcore players. IF you had decided to run with an organized experienced shell, you would know that they keep ToD's.. for every HNM they are currently farming. For example.. I login and the LS message says "Tiamat:ToD; Bahamut:ToD; Faf/Nidd:ToD; Sandworm:ToD; KS99 after last HNM window!" (the ToD is obviously replaced by the actual ToD). So I can then plan my whole day... Say I logged in and already missed Tia's window.. OK Baha's first window is at 2p.. So I go do w/e I want, then at 2p I gear up BLM and head over to Baha's first window... No pop.. so I go and solo on BLM, or craft, or merit with LS member, or w/e until the next window at 2:30p (I can't recall atm if Baha was on hour or halfhour windows but you get the idea..).. No pop.. Continue what I was doing before until the next window at 3p.. POP! I effectively spent MAYBE ~3 mins idling waiting to see if it was going to pop. If we don't get the claim, so what!? I'm definitly not going to go cry TIMESINK THAT WAS SUCH A WASTE OF MY TIME!!!.. I, or someone else from the LS, will get the ToD and try again tomorrow. Within a week or two with at least a decent LS, you'd be able to gear a good number of your members with that HNM gear. OMG TIMESINK!

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Originally Posted by Exni

Blargh

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You didn't talk about how you paid for your XI subscription.

Not all of us get an allowance from our parents. We have to have jobs that force us to be away from the game a number of hours most days.

"Because that's what XI's "hardcore" boiled down to; a bunch of adults acting like spoiled children waiving their toys in other people's faces thinking they were hardcore because they didn't leave their computer for 36 hours whilst camping an HNM.

No skill, no true effort. Just time."

i'm agree with it, remember many players in 2001 we was young and have time for waste in games, the times changes many people have now family and work, less time for waste

i think the real goal of ffxiv is become more accesible for all people that ffxi years ago

but hardcore player thinks that have more priority becaue they spend more time that normal people...

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Originally Posted by odette

i think the real goal of ffxiv is become more accesible for all people that ffxi years ago.

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Which is why they make us grind for class marks to buy job traits, yes? Both games are accessible, even to the point XI is on Steam and gotten quite a bit of new players, plus a newbie question introduced years ago made XI quite a bit more accessible.

Quote:

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but hardcore player thinks that have more priority becaue they spend more time that normal people...

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You have this mixed up -- It's casual players that think they should have priority because they can't play the game for extended periods of time, so the game has to cater to their lifestyle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by odette

"Because that's what XI's "hardcore" boiled down to; a bunch of adults acting like spoiled children waiving their toys in other people's faces thinking they were hardcore because they didn't leave their computer for 36 hours whilst camping an HNM.

No skill, no true effort. Just time."

i'm agree with it, remember many players in 2001 we was young and have time for waste in games, the times changes many people have now family and work, less time for waste

i think the real goal of ffxiv is become more accesible for all people that ffxi years ago

but hardcore player thinks that have more priority becaue they spend more time that normal people...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Which is why they make us grind for class marks to buy job traits, yes? Both games are accessible, even to the point XI is on Steam and gotten quite a bit of new players, plus a newbie question introduced years ago made XI quite a bit more accessible.



You have this mixed up -- It's casual players that think they should have priority because they can't play the game for extended periods of time, so the game has to cater to their lifestyle.

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Both of you are right.

Both of you are wrong.

This topic has been beaten to death, ground into sausage, eaten, digested, excreted, and beaten to death again several times over. The answer is always balance.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You have this mixed up -- It's casual players that think they should have priority because they can't play the game for extended periods of time, so the game has to cater to their lifestyle.

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I think you are both wrong, I thing both casual and hardcore want equal attention

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

It seems the OP played FFXI for seven years despite finding no challenge in it. *I'm sorry to hear that.

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I started XI in college with a few RL friends. We'd sit in each others dorm rooms and play together in person. That's what hooked me in for the first few years.

After college, we used XI as a way to keep in touch and reminisce. Over the years, those friends dropped out of the game until I was the sole survivor. I went on to a prominent endgame shell called Empire on Ramuh. This was the sort of shell that had people camping HNMs around the clock and had such a large roster that at times we fought multiple HNMs at once, even during events.

Only reason I joined was because I wanted to see some of that endgame gear on my character before I called it quits.

It could have been a MUD for all I care, to me it was about the social aspect. I made a lot of friends in Empire, but the rigors of that style of endgame wore me down. I hit a point where I was just too bored to log in anymore. I slowly logged in less and less, by the end I was using XI only as a chat room with pretty graphics.*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Then again we are talking about how MMO gamers *these days thinks *that having everything handed to you on a silver platter = good MMO, plus anything that takes more than 10 minutes to do nowadays is considered a timesink to the new generation of MMO gamers.

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*
I didn't say everything should be handed. Only that everyone should have a fair shot on their own schedule.

If it takes someone six months to a year to finally beat something, that's fine. Whether it's a series of quests or a single monster in a room, a true "hardcore" challenge is one that is overcome by the use of cumulative skill, not by hurdles like "JP midnight" and 72 hour open world spawns.*

That's not asking for a handout, it's asking to trim the fat and give a real challenge.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

._. another thread trying to drive our community further apart. this rules.

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I'm not trying to divide anyone. I'm only trying to get to the root of it and to weed through the nonesense.

As DoctorMog said, why can't we have both?

To me, Darkhold was testing those waters. A group of players can enter at 45, net some SP and pop a few chests -- casual. Or they can speed through and try to beat DS and Batraal in the 5th chest's time limit -- hardcore. Because just entering is easy, but learning the ropes and doing it well takes skill.

Granted, Darkhold wasn't enough to appease a hardcore crowd for a duration necessary to fund an MMO, but it was a start. Plus it's intended to eventually be a mid level event.*

But the time leading up to Darkhold's release is a prime example. 5 minute reentry times were "easy mode." No need for an obscure drop with a low rate from an outside source for entry was "easy mode." The fact that there were chests along the way that had a chance to give a modest reward was "easy mode." People weren't asking for challenge, they were asking for XI-style time sinks.*

The same thing is happening with chocobos. Being able to get one for 3k seals is being called "easy mode." But getting to ride a company-trained mount is just the first step in a planned mount system.*

It's a case of people focusing their energies in the wrong direction.*

SE has said "XIV will be heavily instance-based." To which people can only say "give us HNMs, raids are too easy."

But now is a chance for that hardcore crowd to influence the future of gaming -- if only they'll stop trying to beat XIV back into the hole where all other MMOs exist.*

XIV has a plan. The main focus of which was and is ease of access. SE *wants everyone everyone to have a fair shot -- or in other words, to actually be allowed to play when they log on.*

But if raids is a tainted word because of how easy they were in other games, tell them why.*

*If HNMs were the best thing in XI, why not suggest having a random chance to see one in raids as an optional boss. That way there's no griefing, or botting or any other sort of nonsense. That way casuals get to do their raid and hardcores have a raid plus an HNM.*

I'm not in the "get hardcores out of XIV" camp. I want both. Some day I may want to take a crack at that HNM in that raid, but there's nothing hardcore about doing nothing for pop after purple pop.*

And if I find it impossible for myself, it'll make me respect those who can win all the more.*

Or maybe seals are the way to go. The "Uber Sword of 1337ness" could be in a chest, the key to which a shady NPC within the Grand Company is willing to part with for the paltry sum of 100,000,000 seals.*

Then make rewards performance-based. If a talented hardcore group decimates an instanced raid, leaving nary a mob behind, then they get more seals than the casual group who barely makes it to the boss.*

That way, a hardcore player will get their item a lot sooner than a casual. And the casual group might just find themselves content with decent cheaper items sold directly by the GC.*

Just ideas, but they're both natural was for both play styles to coexist.*

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Dynamis for example? Relic armor has such a ridiculously high drop rate I always walk out with at least 10 pieces of even highly sought after gear (Hi, Duelist Chapeau*very Dynamis-Xarc run.)

...


Btw, for those that don't know~

In FFXIV these are considered time sinks:

Guildleves
Leveling
Collecting Marks
Collecting Seals
Anima restoration
Collecting Aetherytes and Nodes
Crafting
Materia given information

..oh look at that, XIV is also a time sink. This is why people need to lay off of the word timesink and it's liberal usage, because if anything, XIV is more of a timesink than XI ever was.

I never had to collect a type of currency to unlock a job trait in FFXI. See? MMOs are designed to waste your time, that's their purpose or they would never last multiple years.

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*
As for relics, the random number generator was in your favor. In my years I saw three rdm hats and two thf hands, but we were dropping pup and blu gear like they were flint stones.*

As for the list of "time sinks" in XIV, the difference is they all build to some ultimate goal unless you fail at it. Every player is given the opportunity to succeed or fail.*

And as for not collecting currency for skills in XI, ask a Mage or Cor what they think about that.*

No one wants easy handouts. Just a fair chance to win or lose. Some might call it a chance to actually play a game instead of watching it. Standing still for hours is not indicative of an MMO.*

The difference between a Mage, Cor and BRD and the mark system is that it's a system that's been around in FFs for as long as I can remember -- Mages bought spells at shops, some games it was learned through level up or through items. The Mark system versus the level up system in XI is a grind in itself -- You don't grind scrolls or die, you buy them. In FFXIV, you grind marks to buy your passive class traits, in FFXI you just leveled into them which leveled up as you leveled up. In FFXIV, you actually have to buy multiple tiers.

So yes, XIV actually has a fairly large timesink that people overlook when throwing out the word in conjunction with FFXI.

Nice post, i agree in a lot of stuff with you, but i think you are not getting what people is asking, hard content, not easy to do in 2 months, i want to have something to do for several nights after work, dont give mediocre gear with farmable badges or something like WoW, that killed that game as you say you only needed time to get that semi best gear, and people stopped doing harder content because they already had something a little less powerful than best gear, so in a few words im asking to have harder content less handed out gear and of course to have a really juicy carrot that last longer than 3 months before the new carrot gets there.

Its simple, just make hard chains of quest, hard tactical NM's, dungeons that needs more than one quest to be able to enter and different bosses, farm items to pop NM's, make new areas where you need to complete several task to be able to get there and make them to be open world, i did watch several times how people killed something just to make sure if we were using the best strategy so for casuals that would be a good thing, im not that hardcore but i like when things are difficult to get not because the drop rate but for the things you need to do.

I played FFXI and enjoyed it a lot. I also enjoy FFXIV even though my gaming lifestyle changed drastically.

I think someone needs to setup a poll and see how many people can play more than 15 hrs a week. Whoever can't, would be considered casual, and I would be part of that group.

All these arguments steam over between casual vs hardcore players. What is casual? 15 hrs a week? How about hardcore? 30 hrs a week?

What is SE looking for as a solid base of players? Ultimatelly it comes down to money.

Both sides of this argument have good points in it and noone will ever win lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The difference between a Mage, Cor and BRD and the mark system is that it's a system that's been around in FFs for as long as I can remember -- Mages bought spells at shops, some games it was learned through level up or through items. The Mark system versus the level up system in XI is a grind in itself -- You don't grind scrolls or die, you buy them. In FFXIV, you grind marks to buy your passive class traits, in FFXI you just leveled into them which leveled up as you leveled up. In FFXIV, you actually have to buy multiple tiers.

So yes, XIV actually has a fairly large timesink that people overlook when throwing out the word in conjunction with FFXI.

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but lets be real here the timesink involved with obtaining marks is quite small.

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Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga

I played FFXI and enjoyed it a lot. I also enjoy FFXIV even though my gaming lifestyle changed drastically.

I think someone needs to setup a poll and see how many people can play more than 15 hrs a week. Whoever can't, would be considered casual, and I would be part of that group.

All these arguments steam over between casual vs hardcore players. What is casual? 15 hrs a week? How about hardcore? 30 hrs a week?

What is SE looking for as a solid base of players? Ultimatelly it comes down to money.

Both sides of this argument have good points in it and noone will ever win lol.

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I dunno I play anywhere from 20 to 40 hours a week and consider myself casual.

props to the OP...good solid points

Yoshi has stated he wants to turn the game into a more instanced based gameplay. Which I personally think will correct many things stated as problems in the OP.

If done correctly this will become the new form of leveling and end game alike.

You will have the story, the challenge, the rewards, and the decent time frame.

Now seeing how this game is still in the drawing board stages of development with "how does the battle system work." "How are people gonna level." "How is end game gonna be" "How is crafting gonna work into the game." etc etc...

We just have to sit back....chill...and wait for them to give us something. We can make assumptions all day and say they gonna do it this way, they gonna do it that way....but in the end... we really dont know 100%

The reality is the game was launch prematurely (not new info)...they needed another year or two to have a good presentation. So we are just the test dummies. Don't expect anything that will rival other MMO giants for AT LEAST another year...prolly two.

Be patient...its hard i know since its already at your fingertips and you want it to be what you want RIGHT NOW

And it might just be that in the future...but just wait.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

but lets be real here the timesink involved with obtaining marks is quite small.

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Being realistic people would agree that it's still a timesink, that very thing they use to say makes XI a bad a game. A timesink is a timesink in the end. If Timesinks is what made XI 'bad', how is it that timesinks make XIV 'good'? So being real, both games have their equal share of timesinks.

The OP is one of the most well constructed posts I've seen on this forum, and it spells out exactly what I've tried to drill into so many people's heads, here.

It's a shame that very few will actually take the time to read and comprehend it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Being realistic people would agree that it's still a timesink, that very thing they use to say makes XI a bad a game. A timesink is a timesink in the end. If Timesinks is what made XI 'bad', how is it that timesinks make XIV 'good'? So being real, both games have their equal share of timesinks.

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with that definition every thing is a timesink, but I think what the OP is trying to convey is that timesink =/= hardcore, so esentialy he isnt saying timesink is "bad" he is saying using the term "hardcore" for something that isn't hard but is just a timesink is "bad"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

The OP is one of the most well constructed posts I've seen on this forum, and it spells out exactly what I've tried to drill into so many people's heads, here.

It's a shame that very few will actually take the time to read and comprehend it.

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I really hope people do it is easily one of the most well written posts I have read on here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Being realistic people would agree that it's still a timesink, that very thing they use to say makes XI a bad a game. A timesink is a timesink in the end. If Timesinks is what made XI 'bad', how is it that timesinks make XIV 'good'? So being real, both games have their equal share of timesinks.

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There's a difference between timesinks and gameplay.

If a player does an activity every day for a year and wins every time, yet is still empty-handed at the end of that year, it's a time sink.

However, if each time they win, they get a little closer to obtaining the reward, it's gameplay.

Something like the materia system would be a time sink, but that's ok. There's no reason there can't be some time sinks. The difference is in XI, everything was meant to slow you down. Travel, the rate at which an average player could make Gil, reentry timers, spawn times, low drop rates.

It was all about delaying the player.

But XIV is given enough events that can be done on a player's own schedule, those optional time sinks won't seem like time sinks, because even they will be on a player's schedule.

For example, player a tends to log in an hour earlier than a scheduled event, so that's when they occupy themselves with time sinks instead of watching a moogles spin, while player b does the same for an hour after then event.

Time sinks aren't bad, just as long as it's not a main design focus used across the board.

Those events were overcome through trial and error by gamers who spent drawn out months learning only the very basic mechanics of the game in an arduous and arbitrary grind intended to do nothing more than to stall players while the development team cooked up something for their players to actually do with their capped characters.



I don't have time to read rest cause I'm off to work but I'll reread it there. I've thought this ^ for a long time but never had sources to back it up. Idk if you do either, technically it's impossible to back it up unless you can get word-of-mouth from the producer "We're just stalling you bitches til we come up w/ a good idea." However, I do believe this too be true. It's the only reasoning behind the abomination that FFXIV was at launch, that they didn't want everyone to be at cap waiting for content because if you can lvl fast then game is ez mode lawl which some people can't shake.

I barely frequent forums anymore cause of all the QQ so I can't tell if this mentality has kept up, but it did at one point and because you made this thread I'm guessing it still has.

OP knocked it out of the park. Well done, and I don't think anyone could say it better.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

More of the usual nonsense..

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Heh, I bet I'm older, work more hours (government job), and make more $$$ than yooooouuuu.... But nice try..(not really)

Edit: I DID spend the first 7 months of XI on unemployment to be fair tho.. I had just moved to another state and my job didn't quite transfer (like they told me it would!) so I started up a MMO while collecting that check! I didn't even try to look for a job until the last month of my unemployment LOL. Dag.. I miss those days..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exni

Heh, I bet I'm older, work more hours (government job), and make more $$$ than yooooouuuu.... But nice try..(not really)

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With typing skills like that, I doubt it.

i make moar money therefore i am moar right! teh end

Didn't read the whole post and definitely didn't read the comments because the hardcore/casual debate has been beaten to death. But in case it hasn't already been said, hardcore and difficulty have nothing in common. A hardcore player is simply a player that puts a lot of time into the game, and that does not always make them good. You can have hardcore players that are garbage, or hardcore players that are amazing. On the flip-side, you can also have casual players that are just as amazing as the amazing hardcore players, or casuals that are also complete garbage because hardcore and casual have absolutely zero correlation with skill level.

Personally, I am very "casual" because I only actually play maybe once or twice a week. But I invest a lot of time into looking at items, strategy, quests, reading forums, etc so in a sense I'm also "hardcore". What kind of game do I want? I want a game I can play casually but have a lot of depth. I don't want to have to practice a boss for 6 months for a 2% chance for one good item to drop. I want to be able to log on during the times I want to play, get something done, and log off without feeling like I just wasted a valuable chunk of my time.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

With typing skills like that, I doubt it.

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With your dimwitted attitude, and actually bringing up typing skills on a game forum (aside from the fact that nothing was wrong with what I typed...) I'm SURE of it

So what games are considered hardcore and have a healthy player base? I don't want to be playing the wrong game you know :P

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Originally Posted by Exni

With your dimwitted attitude, and actually bringing up typing skills on a game forum (aside from the fact that nothing was wrong with what I typed...) I'm SURE of it

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I cannot stop laughing.