I love how they say Chocobos and airships like that's the only thing being implemented lol.
They forgot the other 90% of stuff that's coming with this patch :P
FFXIV major NA news release: Chocobo's and Airships (why?)
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09-27-2011, 11:54 PMFilthyDisco
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09-28-2011, 12:00 AMKonachibiI loved reading up on the reviews about Duke Nukem Forever, they were going on and on for months after the games release saying it was 'overly-abusive', 'crude humour' and gawd knows what else, till a group of people made a comparison video showing all the things people complained about in DNF, then exactly the same thing in Duke Nukem 3D, and remarked "How is it DN3D did brilliantly and applauded it for having this kind of humour, where as DNF gets beaten down for exactly the same humour?"Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan
Game websites never give good information nowadays, they're just biased piles of donkey-doo that only ever focus on negative aspects of a game EXCEPT when that game is Halo, Call Of Duty, Mass Effect or Grand Theft Auto, which in all honesty aren't that good compared to other games. Halo can easily be outdone by Turok, which was far harder to beat and gave a real sense of atmosphere and vunerability, Call Of Duty is poor compared to the online capabilities of Lost Planet 2, which required much more teamwork and a lot less 'elitism', Mass Effect.... compared to Resonance Of Fate, Mass Effect is just another boring sci-fi shoot'em'up, and GTA is just a money-cow marketed to chavs 'cos they think it's funny to steal cars, do drugs and kill people.
That being said, I applaud Murugan's efforts to show that website and it's terrible journalist how utterly terrible they are at actual news reporting, very good job ^.^ -
09-28-2011, 12:00 AMdarkstarpoet1i'm sorry did we see any patch notes yet? i'm not really aware of everything that's coming in this patch. this was part of the original op. if i review site does not have any concrete information on what is coming there is no way they can give more information than they are given. i haven't read the review yet, but i read the last one on mmorpg and if it's anything like the last it was probably a few weeks to a month ago that it was written. that would mean that possibly what was talked about in there was what was "known" then, but i am not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by FilthyDisco
i should probably read the review and see what is in it before i comment on it too much. i'm more of commenting on the last review that came before 1.18. alot of people here hated the review and bashed the site over it, but it was pretty much spot on with the same opinion i had on it at that point in time. -
09-28-2011, 12:08 AMKonachibiLetter From The Producer XVIQuote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
Badum-tisch
Lazy journalism, they can't be bothered to look through the lodestone for the real 1.19 information before they start talking about it. Hence, their report was bad. -
09-28-2011, 12:19 AMdarkstarpoet1that's not the patch notes. that is a letter from the developer. that patch notes for 1.19 will be released on the 30th of this month. the review states that it was written soon after the release of 1.18(july 27th), but just now is getting posted. i did go back and read the the review and although i do not agree with all of it i do agree with the majority of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
if you have an issue with what was posted you are welcome to bring that issue with it up and people may or may not agree with the argument. alot of the arguments of what they dislike are vague and i can tell as well as most that is it not done deep into the game, but alot of its arguments can vary depending on which server they joined into as well.
like i said i do not agree with the post word for word, but i can see where they are coming from on alot of it. -
09-28-2011, 12:26 AMFilthyDiscoI think Kona is trying to make the point that there's more than just chocos and airships coming in this patch. Did you forget Ifrit Battle? Removal of Physical levels? Materia? Overhaul of synthesis? EXP chains? Plus much more than that. These sites are just lazily reviewing the game. Yes, it's not up to MMO standard quite yet, but at least provide all the details you know at the current moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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09-28-2011, 12:26 AMKonachibi
Whilst that letter isn't patch-note, it's 'almost' patch notes. It is basically saying "1.19 will have all of this in it" *tada!*
MMORPG.com is acting as if that letter doesn't exist and we haven't been given information on what 1.19 has in it. That letter tells us what's in it, so if they aren't mentioning it, they're being lazy. -
09-28-2011, 12:43 AMdarkstarpoet1and there has been many times that they have released letters and stated something would be in a patch that was not. there is no way to review or say anything is coming for sure until it is finalized. just use the stronghold as an example it was in that letter as coming out this patch, but it is not going to make it in time. when 1.18 ht they had already stated chocobo's and airships would be in 1.19 so they may have felt concrete enough about those to put them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
that letter was also 3 weeks after the patch so if that re-review was written a week or 2 after the patch that people said was going to fix things then they did not know what was in a letter released after that time.
i'm not saying it is right that they were not mentioned, but nobody can say they did or did not know about it when we don't know when it was written. the thing is anytime a game is in bad shape someone will get blasted for any review. every review will get blasted like this one and the last one did. people complained that 1.18 would save the game and that review should have waited a few weeks and it looks like they did, but now they are getting blasted again for the same thing.
i guess what i am saying if it takes a while to actually get a review posted on a site no matter when it is written it will be coming out right before the next miracle patch. when is a good time to review a game that is constantly changing? -
09-28-2011, 12:51 AMKonachibi
best time to review it is after patch release, then they can comment on the improvements the patch has made to the game, rather than speculating and only talking about minor things. After a patch the journalist can see all the changes and give his comments about everything it's done, which will be better for the reader as they'll see all those changes and be like "wow that's a whole lot of stuff!" rather than getting small bits of info before release and going "oh, is that all?"
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09-28-2011, 12:53 AMDelsusThis is true, but the thing with MMORPG.com is that they review the same things over and over rather than the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
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09-28-2011, 01:24 AMdarkstarpoet1the thing is, i agree with the point they should give specifics about what has been changed after a patch. the problem is to give a full review you have to review what has changed and what is still the way it was. you have to give an overall review and not a patch review. i have read many reviews that i do not agree with, but that is the whole point of why i like to read them. i like to see how my opinions stack up against others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
if i don't like a review i do not go in and attack a site, the reviewer, and the review. if i disagree with something i will point out the part of the review i find wrong, but not attack everyone involved in it. -
09-28-2011, 01:40 AMMuruganYou are talking as if the patch really includes information about 1.18. There is nothing in his review that talks about the changes, or anything in the game beyond what one would experience with in the first five minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
Opening tutorial.
Trying combat once (apparently with very few abilities... level 1?)
The rest is just the "writer" ranting:
"Seemingly the developer believed they were breaking new ground and creating online genius when they designed this hell-bitch of a UI – they were wrong. How difficult is it to slap on a hot bar, some customizable chat tabs, and a dozen menus which are slightly handsome to behold? Obviously very difficult, because navigating through this game is a task onto itself."
"The self-described “hamlets” on the edge of cities and in the wilderness are nothing more than a collection of brightly coloured tents centered around a floating crystal, and there is nothing to the art direction that cries out “immersion!” The cities all just seem so gorgeously bland, with little in the way of tricking you into believing it as an actual residence for a virtual populace. It seems odd as the games predecessor didn’t suffer from this problem, and one of my hopes was that the new team driving the game would have sought to update this aspect: evidently not."
"he game still exists in a bubble of unashamed grind, the levequests are still available from the twinkling crystalline hubs, obviously made just in case you felt immersed in the game, and there seems so little to really interest the gamer above and beyond gaining levels. It seems odd as the Final Fantasy series is acclaimed for its engrossing, if somewhat corny, storylines, and those on offer in this entry are truly uninteresting. The opening quests serve as an obligatory annoyance more than anything, and fighting the urge to skip the cut scenes becomes one of the MMO’s greatest challenges."
"It is still >>>>mindlessly complicated<<<<<(so complicated it is "mindless"), the UI restricts anyone not wishing to make love to their Xbox 360, and it still packs that feeling of wading through hot fudge. There is still no auction house, but searchable player merchants, little in the way of social interaction, and distinctive lack of forward facing development. Spending time within FFXIV makes you feel like you have gone back in time to play a very needlessly complex EverQuest clone, albeit without the charm."
Poor poor reviewer got paid between five and ten dollars probably for this travesty and it wasn't worth fifty cents. All the pictures were stolen from the original review (not one had anything to do with 1.18 which he was supposedly reviewing), and his entire experience based on his article much like the original MMORPG reviewer is reflective of maybe the first fifteen minutes someone spends in the game.
That isn't what the article was supposed to be, it was supposed to be (according to the title) Final Fantasy XIV: Any Better a Year Later? well... don't you think it should include a discussion of what has changed since release? -
09-28-2011, 01:51 AMKonachibiWaaaaaiiiit a second.... CORNY??? What FF game has a corny storyline? Last I remember they all had extremely in-depth exciting and philosophically interesting storylines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
And FFXIV's story is uninteresting? Right so lemme think... my character has somehow aquired the power to view the past, there's primals stomping around all over the place busting stuff up, there's an evil empire attempting to conquer the world, there's some hulking great sea serpent running rampant across Eorzea's sea, there's a place called Mor Dhona with it's big dead ship and dragon motif (and an opening cutscene to go with it)...
Did the reviewer actually make it past the opening cut-scene to Ul'dah or what? -
09-28-2011, 02:08 AMdarkstarpoet1well since you missed it the first time maybe i will quote my own post that you quoted. maybe you can read it this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
now maybe by shortening it to one sentence you can see that i already stated that.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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09-28-2011, 02:20 AMMuruganOh no I saw it, that was right before you accused me and others of basically trolling the writer and "attack(ing) everyone involved in it."Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
I laid out my grievances plainly. If you take issue with that then maybe you shouldn't be here criticizing the professionals who work for Square Enix on their job. I didn't call the man a rapist I said he was a bad writer, which he is and I explained why. I don't have anything personally against the guy outside of my lack of respect for his work in this instance.
Let me give you an example to make it clear:
Every so often I go out to eat at a fancy restaurant with someone. Sometimes a valet parks my car. I respect what the valet does, and I respect the guy/girl as a person. I tip well and I am always nice to them. I'm not an elitist, in fact I drive a pretty crappy car to be going to such a nice restaurant, and sometimes I share a laugh with the valet who drives something much nicer. Still if they crash my car I'd be quite upset with them, but I still wouldn't use the opportunity to berate them as human beings. People make mistakes and not everyone is made out for every job right away, but they can learn and get better.
I think that the writer of this article should try his hand at working as a valet, and during this time he can attend journalism school and learn how to write a proper article. I'd tip him well, and wish him the best. -
09-28-2011, 02:53 AMdarkstarpoet1ok let's see if these posts by you are grievances or attacking and trolling the site and the authorQuote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
"Arrogant sums up the entire stable of MMORPG.com staff who currently write "about" FFXIV."
"There are trolls which have been banned from MMORPG on the FFXIV section who write better criticisms than this. I highly suggest anyone interested in getting fuel against this game go read their posts, this is all old outdated, "noob" crap."
"Let's be honest this was yet another chance for these "writers" at MMORPG to enlighten us all about how much they hate FFXIV, it had little to nothign to do with 1.18 to the changes of the game, to the current state of the game."
"You all should try writing some articles with substance sometime, some of your readers might appreciate it over these slanted op-ed pieces you are fond of running slamming the game with nothing to back it up."
this doesn't seem very well thought out criticisms. this is you personally attacking the reviewer, the site, and anyone else that disagrees with you. remember these are directly from your posts on that site.
please show me where i accused you of trolling anything in this post. i didn't state you did anything and the post wasn't even responding to nor talking to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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09-28-2011, 03:36 AMAngryNixonCarrying on with the theme of "attacking" MMORPG.com because it's amusing (I'm not really attacking them but you can characterize it that way if it floats your boat). As evidence that MMORPG.com really hasn't the foggiest about FFXIV... Who, that actually plays the game, would ever think 3,000 seals was "steep". Wasn't there a long thread responded to by the community reps specifically berating SE because the prices were thought, by some, to be too low??Quote:
The Final Fantasy XIV Lodestone has been updated with new information about two features that have been long-anticipated: Chocobo mounts and Airships!
Players will have the ability to earn a Chocobo whistle by joining one of the Grand Companies and purchase the whistle with 3,000 company seals.
For those players who find that a steep price to pay, Chocobos will be available for rent. Chocobos can be rented in several locations for 800 gil for a ten minute ride.
Airships will also be arriving with v1.19 and will allow players quick transport between the three city state of Limsa Lominsa, Ul'dah and Gridania.
I agree with many of the posters in this thread that find SE wanting in their information management. For those of us who play the game and so understand the larger picture, the articles jump out as being biased or "talking out of their ass". It's painfully obvious in other words that what they're saying is either untrue or to a lesser extent slanted or coloured in certain ways. For someone who does not play the game however and does not troll the lodestone or the official forums, they wouldn't know what SE's position is or the actual reaction of at least a segment of the community (the ones that post) that still play the game from time to time. If you went solely by what those other sites say and by the comments posted in relation to those articles, one could hardly be blamed (ok maybe a little bit of blame is deserved) for thinking this game was as awful as it's portrayed. That's where SE's information (image) management comes in. -
09-28-2011, 03:40 AMRenshi
Actually yeah, that's even not an half-assed review, since the reviewer only reviews the game in its initial state. I prefer when somebody asks Me to talk about the game if they want a review of an experienced gamer, rather than this beginner's lack of information. Hate it when people receives the wrong informations on things.
Just a week later I've heard some guys talking about FFXIII, and when I heard "You know, it's like Dante's Inferno" I was kinda sad about disinformation. Please, if you want to know things, take a good source of informations, explaining from A to Z. -
09-28-2011, 04:11 AMMizoreShirayuki
Another topic about FF14 seemed to land on IGN's front page... Again it was only a paragraph... And again it told only half the story: HERE
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09-28-2011, 04:22 AMKonachibiNoticed how broken that page actually is? Us experienced players can point out several flaws just by looking at it:Quote:
Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki
It has a PS3 game box even though FFXIV isn't on PS3 yet.
It's listed as a 'Persistant Online RPG' when it's a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG (Persistant Online RPG doesn't even exist as a genre!)
It's european release date is TBA 2011 even though it's obviously already been released.
The PEGI rating is RP when it's really rated 12.
It's also available on: PC and PC???
Not only do IGN talk right from their steaming backsides about pretty much everything (I have an ever-growing hatred of them since watching one of their reviews on X-Box live which was... BEYOND wrong about the game they were reviewing!), but they can't even list their own game details correctly. -
09-28-2011, 11:35 AMMuruganQuote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
Those are all direct quotes... taken out of context. I backed up every criticism with examples from the article and why they were factually incorrect or misleading (it is not just a matter of me disagreeing, it is them misrepresenting the game). They gave a link to t "An outline of the major changes coming in 1.19" when it was in fact a list of recipe changes, they left out a great deal of important information, the op-ed piece didn't provide any examples or evidence for half of his rants.
In fact the very first comment on the op-ed's thread outlined my grievances in detail, and I stand behind everything I said. You are only defending such a poor article because it confirms your bias against the game. You can't seriously sit there and say it was a good informative article outlining the changes which occurred in the first year of development.
There are trolls which were banned for trolling who presented better arguments against the game than the "professional" writer of this article. It was a lazy effort on his part, and as usual the editors there dropped the ball (both in actual "editing" which they apparently don't do given the horrible state of the article, and in content selection). I don't think I am stepping out of bounds in criticizing a website that earns money off of advertising "Free to Play" scams to me, or these people the employ who claim to be gaming journalists.
Journalists by the way, if these people do want to claim be journalists, are supposed to be held to an ethical standard to not mislead their readers with false or incomplete information. Real journalists would be fired for writing such an article. -
09-28-2011, 02:50 PMBlarp
It was an opinion piece. Ethics don't really come into play. The guy stated his opinion. You strongly disagree and that's fine. MMORPG.com covers a lot of different games, and they usually do so in broad strokes for obvious reasons. For the reader not playing XIV, I think that article was generally accurate. If you want a comprehensive "look back" for the last year then your best bet is to write it yourself, and if you have already done so then post it instead of insisting that:
a) The author and or editors are terrible
b) The website is terrible
c) Everyone is wrong because you disagree
That more or less covers every response I've seen you make on that site when addressing negative views of the game. -
09-28-2011, 05:00 PMNaqajPersonal attacks are personal attacks. They don't exactly need more context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
On topic of why the news outlets are only talking about the delays: because that is the relevant news right now! Yoshida just posted the letter where he apologized for the delay.
Come friday patchnotes will go up, and I have no doubt we'll see plenty of news posts describing the changes coming with patch 1.19 in all it's glorious detail. Because then they actually have something to write about that has substance, and isn't just promises and speculation. -
09-28-2011, 05:19 PMMuruganFirst of all the ethics conversation is not about the opinion piece, we were talking about a news release (the title of the thread), saying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarp
the team has laid out the major changes coming in the v1.19 patch and indicated that both Ixal stronghold (Natalan) and Guildleve history evaluations will be delayed to the v1.19a update. Read both the Producer's Letter and check out the patch out line"
I was actually banned from the forums because of my conversation with the editor in which I implied that maybe she couldn't read very well (after she twice asserted that there was nothing incorrect about her article). The update actually included an outline on the details of major changes to crafting recipes. The crafting recipe changes are not even half of the changes the patch is bringing to crafting, they are a tiny proportion of the total announced changes/content planned for 1.19.
The entire article said:
The Final Fantasy XIV Lodestone has been updated with an outline of the notes for the highly anticipated v1.19 patch. The patch is set to deploy on October 4th and brings several significant features to FFXIV.
According to a new Producer's Letter, the patch has been delayed slightly to accommodate more stability and to give the dev team more time for debugging.
To give players a bit of a heads up about the patch, the team has laid out the major changes coming in the v1.19 patch {When was this? If they are referring to the original 1.19 outline it is a little late and people would have to go digging through old producer's letter to find it. If they are referring to the outline recently posted then well this is just not true}
...and indicated that both Ixali stronghold (Natalan) {They've never mentioned Beastman Strongholds on their site before} and Guildleve history evaluations {Or these, but their delay to 1.19a is worth noting. However nothing else from this letter from the producer is} will be delayed to the v1.19a update.
Read both the Producer's Letter and check out the patch out line {What patch outline?} on the Final Fantasy XIV site.
Instead of the picture of Ifrit the Producer's letter had they instead post a picture of (a Chocobo and a picture of the map showing a chocobo stable) from an update 5 days prior they ran a separate story on.
This is simply a bad article, it is both factually incorrect, and the selectively incomplete information combined with reusing graphics from an earlier story completely misleads the reader.
Now if you have a problem about the way I post on that forum you can take it up there on those threads, or show me some examples so I can actually respond to your accusations. I think overall I am a pretty constructive poster on that forum, quite a few people I know in-game I met on that forum and got them playing FFXIV.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/932
I have gotten into it with Gifthorse on his account there (Aloysha17) on a couple of occasions, but I post constructively on all of those topics. I do however often point out when I believe people are wrong as not everything is protected by the umbrella of personal opinion especially when it is not phrased as opinion. When I disagree with them I explain to the person why I think they are wrong , sometimes I attempt this several times, trying to give examples each time.
Many people however who post there do not play the game, or only tried it at launch/in beta; and they often simply post now outdated information which I also correct occasionally (that isn't really an example of a disagreement though).
If you are talking about their latest article's comments which Darkstarpoet posted they deleted my first post, and more than 15-20 other posts that quoted it, so the later comments they decided leave in are not really in context (as people I was replying to were often responding to that post indirectly, but I did not include it in the chain quote for my reply so my reply was not deleted also). In my original post I did outline what I felt they missed, and how inaccurate it was to frame this as looking back on a year of development when he barely mentioned any of that development.
I elaborated on my issues with the article many times during the discussion, and I was no more critical of the professionalism of the writer of the article than he was of the professionalism of the developers. I don't see what the big deal is, I said it was a bad article and that he was a bad "journalist". I completely stand by that. No matter the slant of the article I am upset to see professionals use writing and other forms of media in a misleading way. Either on purpose or because they cannot write properly. I am more vocal probably when I am strongly opposed to the way it is misleading, but I'd criticize the professionalism of anyone who did it even if I agreed with their opinion.
This is a paid employee whose chosen profession is journalism. No one made him publish his work online. It wasn't "his turn to play journalist". This isn't some professional embarrassment variation of Shirley Jackson's The Lottery. He attached his name, and credentials to a published article and he deserves to be held accountable to criticism for it. It was an awful article.... "mindlessly complicated". -
09-28-2011, 05:51 PMVenat
Only thing that any site should post on FF14 about the game is the PS3 review. Game should be like... Patch1.25-1.30 by then.
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09-28-2011, 05:58 PMBlarp
At this point I think any news coverage on XIV is good news. Instead of people totally forgetting about it (let's face it a huge number of people probably have) they're reminded that the game is still in development and maybe seeing a bit of general news about the game may provoke their interests. MMORPG.com recently posted a revisiting to the game from the perspective of a person who hasn't played for a year. Is it comprehensive? No. Does it need to be for the audience that website targets? No.
I don't think it was unjustly pessimistic or short sighted. A lot of problems that people faced at launch are still problems now. That doesn't paint the game in the best light, but how do you argue against an opinion? A lot of people seem to use the tactic of, "mine is better than yours" which gets them labeled as an irrational fan. If someone says the game outright sucks or it hasn't come very far in a year, they're just as entitled to that opinion as you are of yours. Overall, this community (one that I held in high regard) has become so overly defensive that anything even resembling negativity is seen as an attack. It's not.
And do people really need to justify their response on a forum by prefacing every post with IMO?