Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

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Originally Posted by 416to305

Still torn here, was over it last night so was playing my WHM trying to get it to 60 instead. I find I keep comparing AST to my WHM wondering which skill is most similar to one on WHM so thinking why am I even playing a different role when I think WHM is perfect lol. I wish that RR worked in the reverse. Like do your draw, pull the Balance for example, but then do RR and in return for waiting another 45 seconds, you get the enhanced Balance, instead of throwing that card away in hopes for something better. Not that I'd throw the Balance away, but I mean sometimes you pull the Ewer, have no use for it, so RR it, and then get the Spear, so it's just like you wasted 1.5 minutes for really a minor benefit.

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biggest thing is while your waiting for the minor buff.. You have sub par healing.

I adore AST. It's everything I hoped for. It's obviously an advanced class which will take a while to learn. Some will pick it up faster than others. I hope the population will be patient with new Astrologian's.

The spell effects are beautiful. The only downside for me is the card deck holder, I don't really like it but it's a minor gripe. Overall I'm happy!

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Originally Posted by Aphel

Get to level 57/58, go heal The Vault last boss and open your eyes people. Your lightspeed 'fast heals' which is on a 150sec cooldown ain't gonna cut it.

The party takes so much AOE damage (during last phase every 3-5 secs he AOES on top of smashing the tank) that what you need is raw healing/mitigation. At that point your priority is to keep everyone alive, not to have your fancy cards reduce TP cost.

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This^^
Some people do not understand it and think I am complaining just for the sake of complaining - but I do think there is a very real problem here.

Saying that an astrologian should be weaker because of their rng buffs and versatility is just not a satisfying answer imo. A whm gets more healing out per mp than any other healer - their utility is now further enhanced through more dps potential. A sch is an mp fountain, their pet (which I assume is now also affected by food buffs) is a free heal over and above their mp regen abilities.

Astro seems to be perfectly smack dab in the middle of the three healers, yet brings their own unique trick into the pool to add to the benefit of playing. Plus, they can hold their own if solo healing if played the right way.
Their card buffs are invaluable as well; they might not seem like much as first but combine them with the right Royal Road at the right moment and you got one heck of a saver.

Example: The Ewer + Extended Royal Road on healer or caster = Less mana cost which adds to more time to dish out spells before your pool runs low. Combine with with a mana regen ability coming off CD and you can turn a bad situation around real quick.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

Take a best-case and always-useful scenario where you royal road Arrow or Spear, then draw Balance or Arrow, for raid dps. You increase raid dps by 5% for 15 seconds, at the cost of two draws, so once a minute. This works out to 1.25% dps to the raid. This also only has an 11% chance to actually happen, without using additional abilities like spread and shuffle. Compare this to Selene, a pet, who offers 3% speed with 50% uptime, and works 100% of the time. So about 1.5% bonus dps.

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Lvl 54 AST. I have been thinking about the exact same thing:

AST: 5% party attack speed boost, 15sec duration, small radius, 60secs cooldown, High skill required (think on the fly, quick finger, lots of buttons to press)

Selene: 3% party attack speed boost, 30sec duration, medium radius, 60secs cooldown, Low skill required (1 button to press, u can even set her on auto mode)


Okay, based on the above observation, please show me why AST isn't complete trash??
People have been saying AST is a fancy class with high skill level required for high reward. But so far I could only see the skill level part, and I highly doubt the reward part...

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Originally Posted by HolyKelistae

Astro seems to be perfectly smack dab in the middle of the three healers, yet brings their own unique trick into the pool to add to the benefit of playing. Plus, they can hold their own if solo healing if played the right way.
Their card buffs are invaluable as well; they might not seem like much as first but combine them with the right Royal Road at the right moment and you got one heck of a saver.

Example: The Ewer + Extended Royal Road on healer or caster = Less mana cost which adds to more time to dish out spells before your pool runs low. Combine with with a mana regen ability coming off CD and you can turn a bad situation around real quick.

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You get 20% mana reduction.

You can cast 8 spells in 20 seconds, 7 to be more realistic.

say the spell costs 300mp you save 60mp per cast x7 = 420 MP savings....
You only get around 1-2 extra spell cast

Not to mention, you have to cast more heals to get as much output as the other 2 healers.

That's efficient ?

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Originally Posted by RoseM

Lvl 54 AST. I have been thinking about the exact same thing:

AST: 5% party attack speed boost, 15sec duration, small radius, 60secs cooldown, High skill required (think on the fly, quick finger, lots of buttons to press)

Selene: 3% party attack speed boost, 30sec duration, medium radius, 60secs cooldown, Low skill required (1 button to press, u can even set her on auto mode)


Okay, based on the above observation, please show me why AST isn't complete trash??
People have been saying AST is a fancy class with high skill level required for high reward. But so far I could only see the skill level part, and I highly doubt the reward part...

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You lose Eos's AOE Dot heal to do this. AST doesn't ?

That's all I can think of

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

You lose Eos's AOE Dot heal to do this. AST doesn't ?

That's all I can think of

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That's all I can think of too.
But AST loses chance to cast other buffs too. So it seems like an even: SCH can only choose between 2 fairies, AST can only choose 1 of the 6 buffs.

WHM < SCH < AST

In terms of what's fun to play with. WHM has heals, SCH has heals and Eos/Selene and AST has heals and cards. Introduce the Lu Bu of healing jobs and I'll still roll the one I find more enjoyable to play with regardless if it's "harder"to play with endgame.

Honestly what AST to me needs, the buffs all need to last 30 seconds.


100% uptime on at least some type of buff. Would go farther in making up for lack of healing.



There is a difference between harder to play and being viable, back when game first came out... I argued the exact same thing between the tanks as here in healers..

Is AST raid viable ?

PLD.. was the only tank 95% of the guilds would touch for coil till SE finally changed WAR.



AST isn't bottom of barrel like WAR once was, not even close, but is it as viable as having a WHM/SCH in new content ?

The AST's Luminiferous Aether appears to be exactly the same as Shroud of Saints, but it's available in all dungeons since it's level 8. At potency 60 it recovers at the same base MP rate that WHM's SoS does at 60 ~ 25% over 5 ticks.

It gets an enhanced LA at level 48, which makes it potency 80, which at this point will do the same 33% of base MP over 5 ticks.

Base MP changes per level (based on PIE) without taking into account any gear, race bonus or buffs.

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Originally Posted by Aphel

Get to level 57/58, go heal The Vault last boss and open your eyes people. Your lightspeed 'fast heals' which is on a 150sec cooldown ain't gonna cut it.

The party takes so much AOE damage (during last phase every 3-5 secs he AOES on top of smashing the tank) that what you need is raw healing/mitigation. At that point your priority is to keep everyone alive, not to have your fancy cards reduce TP cost.

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This was actually one of the first times Ive felt weak as a healer playing AST. :(

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The AST's Luminiferous Aether appears to be exactly the same as Shroud of Saints, but it's available in all dungeons since it's level 8. At potency 60 it recovers at the same base MP rate that WHM's SoS does at 60 ~ 25% over 5 ticks.

It gets an enhanced LA at level 48, which makes it potency 80, which at this point will do the same 33% of base MP over 5 ticks.

Base MP changes per level (based on PIE) without taking into account any gear, race bonus or buffs.

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LA does not dump aggro, it reduces aggro for actions taken while the buff is up.

I find AST to be sufficient for standard content so far, but my thoughts are tempered by the concerns voiced here. High level AST healing seems like it will require precise, finessed healing, and will probably have difficulty helping the party recover from serious mistakes.

Despite being a little disappointed with AST at the moment, there are some moments in which they shine. Take this one for example:

Tank gets Aspect Benefic regen (18secs) + Aspected Helios regen (30secs) + RRed Bole 15%damage reduction (15secs)

Immediately smack a Time Dilation on him to skyrocket the regen to 33secs (Benefic) 45secs (Helios) 30secs (Bole). It's pretty massive but the major drawback is that it requires a very long set up time and luck. Whereas Scholars just have to bust out 2 lustrates and Whitemages just have to click on Tetragrammaton (700 potency instant heal, +Divine Seal for overkill).

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

It has a shorter CD than shroud, 120 secs iirc.

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Just an FYI, both Shroud of Saints and Luminous Aether have 120s cooldowns - aside from the enmity effect they are completely identical (I think they even get the traits at the same level)

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Originally Posted by Aphel

Despite being a little disappointed with AST at the moment, there are some moments in which they shine. Take this one for example:

Tank gets Aspect Benefic regen (18secs) + Aspected Helios regen (30secs) + RRed Bole 15%damage reduction (15secs)

Immediately smack a Time Dilation on him to skyrocket the regen to 33secs (Benefic) 45secs (Helios) 30secs (Bole). It's pretty massive but the major drawback is that it requires a very long set up time and luck. Whereas Scholars just have to bust out 2 lustrates and Whitemages just have to click on Tetragrammaton (700 potency instant heal, +Divine Seal for overkill).

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Yea it all sounds great on paper. But as you have said..

Id rather Cast Eye for an Eye, Divine seal, Tetra

For AST, when you need those cards... its going to be Ewer.. Re draw.. Spire... Damnit... Tank dead

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Just an FYI, both Shroud of Saints and Luminous Aether have 120s cooldowns - aside from the enmity effect they are completely identical (I think they even get the traits at the same level)

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D'oh, hence my disclaimer. I suppose an AST could Spear themselves to LA faster and fluff a bit more MP for themselves, but a DPS could make far better use of the card. That does put AST in a bit of a tight spot when it comes to burst heals, requiring MP intensive spam casting. WHM can Divine Seal and burst for less MP, or a SCH can WD, and an AST doesn't have a superior way to regain MP in return for spending more. Only the Ewer card, and I can't say I'd be fond of sitting pretty for an RNG based mechanic while neck deep in a raid.

I feel as though determining when to use Diurnal Aspect versus Nocturnal Aspect on a per battle basis will be vital to maximizing the efficacy of astrologian. While true that you can't switch during battle, it's a snap to toggle between fights, with a negligible CD and instant cast. While Nocturnal Aspected Benefic is really good, Nocturnal Aspected Helios is only good if you can stay ahead. Once you fall behind, you need to resort to Helios, whereas a Diurnal Aspected Helios will continue to assist you while AoE healing

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Originally Posted by Lycinder

Tooltips are there, it has both diurnal and nocturnal effects explained on aspected Benefic and Helios read the entire tooltip.

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I wasn't talking about the tooltip in game.
I meant on that site I linked. >_>; I wasn't even 50, that's why I asked if it does it or not but I see it.


Edit: In the end, I feel like AST is a support type and mainly played for back-up heals. I think that's how they will mainly have to be played end-game.
Use your cards to back up the other healer and try to help out some heals.
Hope you have a BRD who sings. I'm worried though, really am.
Some of these posts have me really concerned.

You guys thinking buffs are needed?

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

Honestly what AST to me needs, the buffs all need to last 30 seconds.


100% uptime on at least some type of buff. Would go farther in making up for lack of healing.

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I don't think this would help because cards do not stack. any sort of duration change would need to allow cards to stack. I think the numbers on the cards are where the problems lie.

Cards don't need to stack, you use redraw or save the card if you get 2x in a row

Not like anyone would want more than 1 AST ina group anyway.

either way, they need a buff.


Ill be deciding today to

#1 Play my WHM
#2 Play a DPS for the first time (never DPS'd in a mmo besides for abilities from them...... before always tank or heals)
#3 Deal with AST's shortcomings and hope for buffs

you would run into overlap issues if you already have a card held. a buff shouldn't invite more problems, I had already thought about if they bumped up the duration or reduced the cd on draw and realized that would happen.

Nevermind it does.

As I can see, this job main thing is support.
It's as close as support as we will get.
In raidin' it'll probably be the back up healer
and bring it's utility to everyone else in the team even the other healer.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

sadly with how work the game that don't work at all. indeed if everything was fine and all it can be nice. however, 3 point that make it a perfect garbage:

1) with how work the game, if you cast it on a target that have already begin him cast for him attack, the skill will not affect it. but affect the next attack
2)you must target the monster while healing for be able to use it, making hard to use it for when it's needed.
3) it not only affect special attack but auto attack too.

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1. It will affect the enemy's current cast if you catch it early enough before the orange disappears from the ground. I have it work perfectly on boss abilities. Know the fight, and know when to be ready
2. Mouse over healing fixes this. Sorry console players
3. Correct

AST is pretty, flashy, and thematically everything I wanted in a healer.

but it's weak. I tried it in a few level 50 dungeons, and although it didn't struggle I can't say that I enjoyed it very much either. I miss being able to fall asleep at the keyboard while Eos handled everything. Quite frankly, AST is severely lacking in the heals department.

Astrologian is not lacking as a healer. If they make astrologians on par with white mage then why bring a white mage when you can bring a job that has equivelent heal strength and ability to buff an entire party with the myriad of buffs the Astrologian has access.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

2)you must target the monster while healing for be able to use it, making hard to use it


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make a macro

/micon disable
/ac "disable" <t>
/ac "disable" <tt>
/ac "disable" <f>

cast it on your target. if that's invalid (like an ally targeted) cast it on their target. if neither is valid cast on your focus (I don't usually set boss as focus but I know a lot of people do)

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Astrologian is not lacking as a healer. If they make astrologians on par with white mage then why bring a white mage when you can bring a job that has equivelent heal strength and ability to buff an entire party with the myriad of buffs the Astrologian has access.

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I was playing Ravana as a WHM with an AST second healer. We did a great job together. His aspected Helios under Noctrunal Sect healed for approx. 550, while my medica healed for approx. 1500.

I'd call that a significant difference.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Astrologian is not lacking as a healer. If they make astrologians on par with white mage then why bring a white mage when you can bring a job that has equivelent heal strength and ability to buff an entire party with the myriad of buffs the Astrologian has access.

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WHM will always be the best burst/AOE/HOT healer - even if AST is buffed. WHM shines in self DPS over buffing the group.

SCH provides just as much DPS increase to a raid as AST (See math from previous posts) and can dish out WAY more healing/support. Not only does AST only have a 250 POT shield, when SCH has 350 - AST does not even have the pet embrace heals - or Rouse/POT increase.

The buffs that AST brings are not nearly strong enough to justify how much they lack in the healing dept. They either need a buff to cards or a buff to healing. I would rather see them have more to offer in the healing dept. As it is AST struggles healing level 58 dungeons. They will not be competitive as is once the newness fades.

Everyone that is higher level than me (darn you life, not letting me play FF as much this weekend) commenting on the potency has me worried. I worry most that SE will try to buff AST and buff them too well, then swing the nerfbat so hard the class is broken. I don't want that :( Though SE seems to have a much better balancing act than Blizz, so we shall see.

(Disclaimer: proposed changes or opinions are just gut reactions and have no math involved)
Only lvl 51 on my AST so my opinion is still lacking context. But from playing the other healer jobs it is pretty obvious that AST is lacking. I love SE for adding a job that actually has more of a support feeling to it but it doesn't seem to flow very well.
The lack in healing potential isn't made up by the card mechanics. Seeing how short the buffs and long the cooldowns are. In group content I feel more inclined to constantly spam heals and not waste any time trying to reshuffle/draw cards.

I don't mind being the weakest healer but at least give AST more interplay with their cards. Right now the cooldowns feel way too long for the RNG involved and the buff durations.
-Draw's cd should be halved. (Allow 1 Astro to stack his cards)
-Shuffle should prevent you from drawing the same card you just put away. (if the cd is kept at 90 sec)
-Spread's in combat requirement doesn't make any real sense to me. Sure you can't draw between fights and set up the perfect cardcombo but as of right now I hardly see how that system could be abused.
-Royal Road is actually fine the way it is.

I really like the idea of a support class but at the moment this feels like an inbetween that gets us nowhere. The healing potencies are too weak to and the card system that is supposed to be the hook of AST just feels tagged on. I'll keep playing the class to 60 though and see if my opinion changes but from what I have read I don't think it will. Just hope SE will take another look.

I haven't healed any dungeons post Aurum Vale (i'm lvl 51 now, been doing story), but so far i'm loving it. Heals felt very weak at first cpmpared to WHM, but eventually became closer to the other healers in terms of effectiveness (still lesser heals of course. Had to spam Benefic 2 many times whereas on WHM cure with an occasional 2 would have been fine).

MP management seems a bit lacking though, that's really my only complaint. My understanding is our Luminiferous Aether is about the same as Shroud of Saints in terms of MP recovered. Considering AST has to burn more MP to heal an equal amount as WHM/SCH, i think the skill may need a slight boost in potency or maybe slightly reduced recast time. We can't always use the Ewer (iirc) on ourselves to help with MP cost.

Still not sure about Lightspeed either. I want to say it saved me a few times with Benefic 2 spam, but idk if it actually did or if i would have been fine without it. Excited to fet it to 60 and see how it is then.

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Originally Posted by Ambivalence

WHM will always be the best burst/AOE/HOT healer - even if AST is buffed. WHM shines in self DPS over buffing the group.

SCH provides just as much DPS increase to a raid as AST...

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This 110% agree^^

I wonder how they got to the current version of astrologian - prior to the games release they said that dancing between sects would make ast OP. If that were possible I still think Ast will be lacking. Astrologian has to cast frequent heals means they are also likely giving up on dps, which the other heals can do pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Ambivalence

WHM will always be the best burst/AOE/HOT healer - even if AST is buffed. WHM shines in self DPS over buffing the group.

SCH provides just as much DPS increase to a raid as AST (See math from previous posts) and can dish out WAY more healing/support. Not only does AST only have a 250 POT shield, when SCH has 350 - AST does not even have the pet embrace heals - or Rouse/POT increase.

The buffs that AST brings are not nearly strong enough to justify how much they lack in the healing dept. They either need a buff to cards or a buff to healing. I would rather see them have more to offer in the healing dept. As it is AST struggles healing level 58 dungeons. They will not be competitive as is once the newness fades.

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AST needs some QoL changes.
Light speed and Synastry are underwhelming, Card cycling is alot of work that may not even reward you for the effort you have to put in, Compared to say how easy it is for Sch to just use Selene Buff.

Maybe AST was balanced around being able to cycle through both Diurnal and Nocturnal in Combat but they removed it later.

AST is pretty good with their flat damage reduction % up-time though.
SCH+AST lots of flat damage reduction + alot of extra DPS. Maybe SCH is dragging AST down?

I want to see a good SCH and a good Nocturnal AST work together.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

I want to see a good SCH and a good Nocturnal AST work together.

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Since the Sheilds of SCH/AST won't stack I doubt this will be a thing. AST would be in Diurnal...(WHM) and won't be able to heal enough to allow for the SCH to DPS as is per usual in Full party settings...

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Originally Posted by Ambivalence

Since the Sheilds of SCH/AST won't stack I doubt this will be a thing. AST would be in Diurnal...(WHM) and won't be able to heal enough to allow for the SCH to DPS as is per usual in Full party settings...

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their shields won't stack this is true. but the %potency in coturnal makes regular helios comparable to a whm medica. The spotshields of instant cast aspect benefic would still be useful for single targets, you would get all the bonus ast buffs, and the sch could use eos for the healing buffs and aoe regen and make actual use of the several spells they get from 50-60 to do non-shielded healing. I think it could work in a coordinated static, maybe not so hot in pugs.

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Since the Sheilds of SCH/AST won't stack

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Galvanise and Nocturnal Field don't stack together?

Urgh i tested it and Noct shield and Adlo remove each other >_<.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

...but at least give AST more interplay with their cards...

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I was thinking about this too (this may be slightly off topic...)

They could actually buff the ast through the card mechanics. e.g. every time you draw/ shuffle a card the ast regens a set % of mp (aka aetherflow)

maybe give them a new card skill ("hand of fate") which allows them to sacrifice their "spread" card for a certain benefit e.g. sacrifice ewer for a 30% increase in heal potency for a few seconds (aka divine seal). maybe other sacrificed cards can give other benefits.

Perhaps give them a stance ("Celestial Host") which gives them a slight % increase in heal potency (or allow them to regen mp over time while in this stance) perhaps give the stance a negative feature like being unable to move while in the stance.

being support is all good and well, but if you can't heal your party then the support is negligible - honestly I think sch can provide better support, heals AND dps.

I dont know if people are special or just want thier cake and eat it too. AST wasnt supposed to replace whm or sch, but to be primarily a support class with some heals. For those who played FFXI it plays similar to RDM, where your primary role is to cast support spells while throwing a few heals when needed to give the main healer a little relief. If people would stop assuming AST is weak and accept the fact that they are primarily a supporting class then we can all just get along.

Going back to OP, i think the AST is almost where it needs to be. as stated before, there are some mana issues, especially with lightspeed, but if everyone is actively watching out for aoes and the like, then mana shouldnt be an issue. i could see an increase in luminiferous aether trait to 100 (maybe even 120) then that would help a bit.

The whole card system is definitely fun. having to manage the buffs, whether to use it, save it, or RR it on the fly all while continuing to heal make the AST a fun class. its definitely going to take some time to get used to the system, but just like with all other healer/support roles in any mmo, it comes down to how well you know the fight and being proactive instead of reactive.

The different sects do make it interesting. instead of being stuck with one way to play you are given the ability to choose. each has their pros and cons but i feel they are pretty well balanced.

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Originally Posted by Sykoticjestr

I dont know if people are special or just want thier cake and eat it too. AST wasnt supposed to replace whm or sch, but to be primarily a support class with some heals. For those who played FFXI it plays similar to RDM, where your primary role is to cast support spells while throwing a few heals when needed to give the main healer a little relief. If people would stop assuming AST is weak and accept the fact that they are primarily a supporting class then we can all just get along.

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Their support is lacktustre after it was revealed they cannot "Bane" a buff .

What happens is AST can spend half the fight finding the right buff or the right combo. But SCH just selene haste the entire fight for much less effort.