I sure hope HW is not going to be more armor grind treadmill!

Sapphic, thanks for saying everything for me.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

...What's the point of making an MMORPG, a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online role-playing game, solo-able?
Why not just play a single-player game if you want to play by yourself?

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Just because a game has "multiplayer" in its name doesn't mean that everything in it needs to require a group. That sucks.

This is what has me worried the most about the future of the game. If we're just going to raise the level cap and make the previous gear useless then it's not going to have the same staying power. If you look at FFXI you had content from every expansion you were still doing well into the late years of the game. It didn't "feel" as old because you were doing something different every day/week. That's what I want for the future of FFXIV as well.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

Am I the only one that thinks is strange that people seem to want MMO's to be chat rooms first and games second?

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Nope. I really enjoy playing with other people, and I do like talking to them as well, but when I log on, I want to play, not stand around and chat.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

...What's the point of making an MMORPG, a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online role-playing game, solo-able?
Why not just play a single-player game if you want to play by yourself?

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because mmo as a genre has changed. In its early days it was designed to emulate an alternate reality and immersion being its utmost priority where everything needed to be as real as possible (waiting for boat, waiting for airships, travelling, danger of entering caves alone etc).

Then because wow, gw, eq etc got so popular and everyone wanted to experience it (esp wow because Warcraft had such a huge fan base that wanted to follow the stories of arthas), the genre is now more 'game' than an alternate reality. And if it is a game it needs to allow people to play.

I lovee ffxi and it was one of my best gaming experience but I won't ever play it again because of how time consuming it was to just to start 'playing'.

I guess this is a topic where you can argue for years. People have different opinions and sadly the "I want it all, I want it now!" is much more present then what I and a few others think about it.


This is the last thing I will contribute to this discussion because its just the way I feel about it. There is nothing else left to say for me.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...-the-MMO-Genre

I started FF11 with the PS2 launch. But because of school and work, I couldn't put in as much time as everyone else. I wasn't 75 on my first job until after WotG. Because of this, it was much harder to find CoP groups, NI runs, and Salvage. The only endgame I was able to regularly do was Dynamis.

There were times I'd spend hours in Jeuno just hoping to get a party invite. Leveling MNK was done almost completely solo with Field Manuals. It was horrible. At least with FF14 if I hit the DF button, I can be certain of a group, even if I have to wait a little for it to happen.

I look forward to when FF14 has an extensive amount of content, and look forward to many more expansion packs. I hope the game gets packed with many endgame options. Please find a way to keep ARR content relevant.

So you'd rather SE release all the best gear in 3.0 and we just use the same gear until the next expansion?

That'll have even more people quitting due to running out of things to do.. Gear treadmill is what keeps people playing MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

Am I the only one that thinks is strange that people seem to want MMO's to be chat rooms first and games second?

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Hell at this point, that's pretty much what FF14 is to me, a giant chat client.. Because I've run out of things to do, just waiting for HW at this point.
But I do realize that using the game as a chat client comes as an eventual decline of interest, it's not and shan't ever be a primary feature of any MMO.. Although, this game does have quite a few of those people.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Sorry you're unable to accept the validity of my statement.

MMOs being bad is only a minor impediment to people enjoying those games. When the enjoyment of an MMO comes because of the players and in spite of the game, the game is bad. The players can be amazing and cool and people you want to spend the next five years playing games with and how you derive all of your enjoyment from the game.

That doesn't make the game good.

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Indeed? Well let's see your proof then Mr. Wright.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Indeed? Well let's see your proof then Mr. Wright.

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One of EQ's producer and one of its lead designers was Brad McQuaid in its defining years.

QED.

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Originally Posted by Amocoru

This is what has me worried the most about the future of the game. If we're just going to raise the level cap and make the previous gear useless then it's not going to have the same staying power. If you look at FFXI you had content from every expansion you were still doing well into the late years of the game. It didn't "feel" as old because you were doing something different every day/week. That's what I want for the future of FFXIV as well.

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What do you want them to do? something gimmicky like "in order to beat this boss you have to restart from level 1 and wear your starting gear" seems like you guys don't know what you want. Or you can just use glamours and make your old gear not useless

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Originally Posted by luciferbelmont

What do you want them to do? something gimmicky like "in order to beat this boss you have to restart from level 1 and wear your starting gear" seems like you guys don't know what you want. Or you can just use glamours and make your old gear not useless

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probably something along the lines of.. first release, ilv 170 (Light resistance)
second tier, ilvl 180 (Fire resistance)
third tier, ilvl 190 (Ice resistance)

etc.. then make people use outdated equipment to tackle specific bosses with different elements.. I've seen that done before, it's annoying as all hell keeping all those damn pieces around and trying to find the balance between brute ilvl superiority vs. elemental resistance etc.. I don't mind theorycrafting but complicating things just for the sake of it, me no likey

Can we not just have tome gear that we upgrade instead of buying a new set every patch? We can already upgrade them by 10ilvls as it is. Why not have another level after that that utilises Alexandrite and sphere scrolls and give people more customization? People like that glowy effect on gear too.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

probably something along the lines of.. first release, ilv 170 (Light resistance)
second tier, ilvl 180 (Fire resistance)
third tier, ilvl 190 (Ice resistance)

etc.. then make people use outdated equipment to tackle specific bosses with different elements.. I've seen that done before, it's annoying as all hell keeping all those damn pieces around and trying to find the balance between brute ilvl superiority vs. elemental resistance etc.. I don't mind theorycrafting but complicating things just for the sake of it, me no likey

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Oh gosh, that would be terrible. D: Honestly, I just want to get new and better gear to look forward to after every new raid. Why's that so bad? I love having that incentive.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Nah, they're definitely bad.

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Ah ok I see it all clearly now... a troll is a troll after all... ha ha...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

SE could introduce something like the the novus materia melding stage for all items.. Instead of materia, throwing something else at the gear slowly upgrading and customizing the stats on the pieces.
We already have the aesthetics covered by the glamour system.. I really don't think SE would bother with this though, and if the grind is too drawn out, it'll create a very large stat gap between players initially... Also, the whole ilvl check has to be redone with such system.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

SE could introduce something like the the novus materia melding stage for all items.. Instead of materia, throwing something else at the gear slowly upgrading and customizing the stats on the pieces.
We already have the aesthetics covered by the glamour system.. I really don't think SE would bother with this though, and if the grind is too drawn out, it'll create a very large stat gap between players initially... Also, the whole ilvl check has to be redone with such system.

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I think if it was implemented then materia should be used to add the stats as its not used enough in my opinion, tie alexderite to the low level roulette to push people into running that more every day meaning you can get 7 a week if you run every day. Have a generic Armour scroll for each piece to infuse materia to that way they can do a flat ilvl increase making it simpler, alternatively they should also offer a "generic" upgrade scroll similar to CT/ST/WoD weekly quest for those who don't have the time or want to customize their stats that much can also take advantage of the feature also add a catalysis that you need to add the enhancement to the gear to stop people brute forcing their way to a full set within a week once the tome requirements for the set are reached from having capped every week.

So you get your tome gear upgrade it like we do now and then you infuse a scroll and apply it to get another increase with customized stats, which would bring it in line with the next tome set in terms of ilvl when fully upgraded but you would have personalized the stats so that you might not necessarily wish to upgrade to the new set right away making gear last slightly longer.

Dungeon loot would have to drop gear at a higher level than the tome gear starts at though but equal to the first upgrade step so that dungeon upgrades are still relevant till half way through the expansion when people are onto the next stage of their upgrade, this also means that people who lag behind slightly in terms of gearing due to not being able to cap each week can still get upgrades without feeling like they need to get a whole set when they can hang onto a few pieces from the old set and upgrade them to be equal to the newest set if they put in the extra effort, this will also help us not over gear dungeon content so stupidly fast if they are balanced around a ilvl that is closer to the ilvl will would actually have for most of the patch.

I'm not saying there aren't issues with this and that it should be done just that I think it would add a nice extra bit of side content and give people the customization they seem to want from gear, and this is a very quick concept I threw together so it probably needs tweaking.

Side note in terms of 24 man raid gear they should probably drop for example 135 ilvl gear if the tome gear goes 120 -> 130 -> 140 at max upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

One of EQ's producer and one of its lead designers was Brad McQuaid in its defining years.

QED.

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We do not take false cause as evidence in this courtroom.

This court sees no reason to further prolong this trial.
Nor is there any need for more time to decide the case against objective quality.
This case is extremely clear. I see no room for misinterpretation of the facts.
This court finds the matter of quality in videogames a....

PERSONAL
OPINION

Is there even a current gen fantasy themed community driven MMO? Genuine question.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Is there even a current gen fantasy themed community driven MMO? Genuine question.

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I believe Tree of Savior is going to try to fill that niche.
I know I'm interested at least.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

ToS.

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This game looks fuckin' swell.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Just because a game has "multiplayer" in its name doesn't mean that everything in it needs to require a group. That sucks.

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Just because some contents need a group don't mean you have to build the group yourself in the age of duty finder.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

So you'd rather SE release all the best gear in 3.0 and we just use the same gear until the next expansion?

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I think it is about copy/paste the stats on different gear designs, not exactly only 1 gear set for the whole expansion ^^

Welcome to the wold of MMOs since the beginning of time. Yes. Even the original EverQuest was, and is, exactly like this.

Also, people these days want things faster. Now, now, now.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Welcome to the wold of MMOs since the beginning of time. Yes. Even the original EverQuest was, and is, exactly like this.

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It is also the same with most jrpg games, including the FF games.
Everytime you visit a new town the first time you buy new equip.