Square, if youre going to ban Gil buyers, give them a PERMANENT ban

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Banned gil sellers don't buy the game to begin with. They steal accounts.

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I hear people making that claim very often, but is there actually anything to support it? If I as much as try to log in to my account from my laptop rather than my desktop it won't let me until I confirm via e-mail that it's in fact me, and set a new password. So unless they actually get their hands on your e-mail account as well, they can't just go and steal your FFXIV account.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It looks suspicious, but that doesn't necessarily mean they bought gil. Some players literally have hundreds of millions of gil earned purely through hard work and working the marketboard.

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Actuaĺly, they admitted it when called out, said they didn't care.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I hear people making that claim very often, but is there actually anything to support it? If I as much as try to log in to my account from my laptop rather than my desktop it won't let me until I confirm via e-mail that it's in fact me, and set a new password. So unless they actually get their hands on your e-mail account as well, they can't just go and steal your FFXIV account.

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Every MMO developer whom have bothered to deal with RMT have stated that the majority of the accounts used in the transfer of RMT funds are compromised accounts.

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Originally Posted by Radkat

It is a simple matter for SE to trace gilsellers from bot accounts who send large amounts of gil to seller accounts who send gil to regular players. They have no problem banning the bots and the sellers, but they have been reluctant to ban the buyers so far.

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The buyers are also subscribers. Chances are, if it make the subscriber happy to have gil to buy what they want, they will keep subbing. I think if SE messed with the buyers, they'd lose more subscribers that the sellers.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Actuaĺly, they admitted it when called out, said they didn't care.

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Could just be sarcasm. When I spent 4 mil on Savage Might IVs, some people actually wondered where I got the gil from as they never see me craft; only spamming dungeons. When they made assumptions about me buying gil, I said I did.

Why don't I care? Because when SE does a trace on my history from August 2013 to current, they won't find anything relating to huge gil consumptions other than people giving me (or lending me) gil. Now, they can go mess with the people who traded/sent me gil, but then they are meddling with a legit subscriber.

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Originally Posted by AlexandeRW

I could be wrong, but can you post on the forums without an active account? Those that quit...aren't going to be able to post on these threads to tell us that's why, if so.

(And the odd "I'm quitting and this is why!" threads tend to rapidly devolve into "No one cares, go quit, can I have your stuff" so I'm sure it's discouraging to think about making a thread to announce that you are quitting for RMT reasons)

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You can post on the forums so long as you still have time left on your account. Just like you can cancel your recurring payment and still log into the game up until whenever your next billing cycle would have been. The I'm Quitting threads also typically devolve into telling the poster to piss off because those threads are very rarely posted in a constructive manner. The tone of the threads makes a very big difference in how it's responded to.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Actuaĺly, they admitted it when called out, said they didn't care.

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Fair enough, but the biggest problem is you were "calling him out" and accusing him of buying gil only because you saw his transactions and thought he had too much gil. So far as I can tell based on how you described it, that was your only evidence that prompted you to confront him. If SE handled RMT with that kind of slapdash approach they would end up taking down tons of legitimate players for no other reason than being rich.

Pretty much this...

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Gil is easy to make in this game, why buy it?

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pretty much this...

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Fair enough...

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Actually I wasn\\'t the one who called him out. Others noticed as well. I fully realize what money can be made. I made lots on my alt as a crafter, and my fc has a large number of crafters in it. I also realize that if you have earned a lot of gil, you know how to save it. Which isn\\'t going to the MB and buying all the most valuble materia from the lowest price, up to four times the going value in one shot. Thats what someone who places no value in the gil does, someone who came by it very easy.

But thats all a missed point. The point was that gil buyers themselves can effect the community itself by messing up the economy. At least on a less populated sevrver like Jenova. Prices still havent come down more than half way.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

What makes you so sure they even hand out temp bans to buyers? I don't think you'll ever see them ban buyers no matter how much you complain on the forums.

Fact is that they have no evidence to ban the buyers, they simply receive a large sum of gil. People could just claim ignorance and you would have no proof that they actually paid any money for it.

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The fact that you need to (a) accept a friend invite and (b) receive the gil in the mail is proof enough. There is no recourse for those that engage in this behavior. So yes, perma-ban. The numbers likely do not exceed a few hundreds, but the message sent will shackle the RMT activity.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

if you have earned a lot of gil, you know how to save it. Which isn\\'t going to the MB and buying all the most valuble materia from the lowest price, up to four times the going value in one shot. Thats what someone who places no value in the gil does

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That kind of generalization isn't really helping make your case..

I'll throw in a million or two willy nilly on the MB from time to time if I don't want to wait around, it has nothing to do with RMT. By your logic, the vanity gear market, especially primal weapons (6m+ a pop) should have no market demand by legitimate players. Same for i110 weapons (wootz, ebony)

Consumers don't always display completely logical spending habits..

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Actually I wasn\\'t the one who called him out. Others noticed as well. I fully realize what money can be made. I made lots on my alt as a crafter, and my fc has a large number of crafters in it. I also realize that if you have earned a lot of gil, you know how to save it. Which isn\\'t going to the MB and buying all the most valuble materia from the lowest price, up to four times the going value in one shot. Thats what someone who places no value in the gil does, someone who came by it very easy.

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I dropped 20mil on my melded accessories for my tank. I wanted to just get them out of my hair, so yes I ended up paying almost double for some of the tier IV materia. At one point I was paying 40k (4-5x the original value) for Vitality III just so I could get the last overmeld. I just tend to finish projects like that ASAP, and make back gil later. Just because you know how to save doesn't mean you never spend. It means that you spend on things that are worth it to you.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

That kind of generalization isn't really helping make your case..

I'll throw in a million or two willy nilly on the MB from time to time if I don't want to wait around, it has nothing to do with RMT. By your logic, the vanity gear market, especially primal weapons (6m+ a pop) should have no market demand by legitimate players. Same for i110 weapons (wootz, ebony)

Consumers don't always display completely logical spending habits..

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How does buying an expensive vanity weapon compare with buying up almost all of the most expensive materias on a MB, regardless of price. When you buy vanity weapons, they are generally a consistent price, and you only buy one. You don't just buy everything in one pop.

but once again, point missed. this really isn't about whether the person was guilty, but it is something gil buyers do. the effect caused is the point.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

How does buying an expensive vanity weapon compare with buying up almost all of the most expensive materias on a MB, regardless of price. When you buy vanity weapons, they are generally a consistent price, and you only buy one. You don't just buy everything in one pop.

but once again, point missed. this really isn't about whether the person was guilty, but it is something gil buyers do. the effect caused is the point.

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You'd be surprised how easy it is to empty out the MB when overmelding.. I once emptied out the entire crafter control/craftsmanship IIs and IIIs... After failing 10, 20, 30 overmelds, price is no longer an issue and you just want to get it over with.
But you're right, that's beside the point, I was just trying to present a case of how seemingly RMT behavior may not always be related. In this case, I know who you're talking about, I know his spending habits and I agree, most likely RMT.. But presenting your case with generalization will only cast doubts on your claim.

Anywho, back on topic, RMT buyers do inflate the market, no doubt about it.. But that can be taken advantage of too :)