Fan Census: This is embarrassing

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Originally Posted by Elim

Really? Well damn. I haven't bothered to get it because I don't care about minions. Lol

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Yeah, always thought it was pretty funny how Alphinaud and Alisaie go on about how no one must know what happened down there then the player character just goes "screw you two I need another minion, I'm off to tell Jonathas everything!"

Cool now I can gloat that i'm part of the 3.50% elite of sargatanas. Its not the 1% but its close.

I want more cool loot! =D

Inferno Bangle of Aiming
On a successful ranged attack, you have a 10% chance to trigger Combustive Arrows: This effect Ignites the target for 10 seconds dealing 50 potency in damage.

Inferno Bangle of Casting
When you damage an enemy with a spell, you have a 20% chance to trigger Pyromancer's Bolt: This effect deals 50 potency in damage immediately. This spell has a 5% chance to trigger off damage over time effects.

Inferno Bangle of Fending
When you damage an enemy with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to trigger Wrathful Flames, which deal 25 potency in damage to all targets around the target and increases amenity.

Inferno Bangle of Healing
Healing Spells have an additional Effect: Cauterize, healing spells have a 20% chance to additionally remove a single detrimental effect from target.

It's a difference in code of ethical behaviour, nothing new.

Don't worry, I'm from the EU. We've got the "french only" and "german only" subcultures and it's usually an egregious experience when the majority of the group consists of either of these subcultures.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I want more cool loot! =D

Inferno Bangle of Aiming
On a successful ranged attack, you have a 10% chance to trigger Combustive Arrows: This effect Ignites the target for 10 seconds dealing 50 potency in damage.

Inferno Bangle of Casting
When you damage an enemy with a spell, you have a 20% chance to trigger Pyromancer's Bolt: This effect deals 50 potency in damage immediately. This spell has a 5% chance to trigger off damage over time effects.

Inferno Bangle of Fending
When you damage an enemy with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to trigger Wrathful Flames, which deal 25 potency in damage to all targets around the target and increases amenity.

Inferno Bangle of Healing
Healing Spells have an additional Effect: Cauterize, healing spells have a 20% chance to additionally remove a single detrimental effect from target.

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omg yes, stuff like this!!

maybe those servers are better at prioritizing real life?

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

maybe those servers are better at prioritizing real life?

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Bunch of filthy casuals with their real life. They're ruining this game!!!!!!!!##@1!!#241143!!!!!!!!!2414!!!!

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Originally Posted by Zplinter

One thing that needs to be considered here in addition to all that has been said:
JP servers (and players in that country) ONE time zone
NA servers: the rest

This is not the say that NA players are not on JP servers. We all know that there are, but the majority of the player base for the JP are in the same time zone. That really helps.

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JP servers: everyone close to Japan. You know, like Australia and New Zealand, and south-east Asia?
NA servers: everyone close to the US.

I'm from EU and while lower than NA I'm not embarrassed about anything. I have always been in casual guilds and I don't think that I ever had the luxury to go on and prioritize raiding in any of the MMOs that I ever played. Why should people that don't want to raid right now should feel bad about it?

The embarrassing part is not the data itself, it is the reasoning behind it. As others have stated, people in NA are so prone to rage quitting, me me me mentality, obscene requirements to get in a party, selling clears, unwilling to help without getting something in return, etc. etc. that it's no wonder why the numbers are what they are.

Im not going to play FFXIV competitively. I play for the story and to complete new content with my wife FOR FUN. We enjoy doing end game raids and getting gear FOR FUN. I have no interest in "competing" with other servers for something so minimal. Especially since there's no "server" bonus.

Well, one of you is gonna have to carry me through then. So who's it gonna be?

I also need some gil. Fork it over, you over achievers. :D

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

The embarrassing part is not the data itself, it is the reasoning behind it. As others have stated, people in NA are so prone to rage quitting, me me me mentality, obscene requirements to get in a party, selling clears, unwilling to help without getting something in return, etc. etc. that it's no wonder why the numbers are what they are.

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but they're comparing the whole population. How many Japanese players raid total and how many American/European players raid total? You could complain about players having a bad mentality if there was even remotely the same amount of raiders, but looking at statistics I would very much doubt it.

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Originally Posted by mirta000

but they're comparing the whole population. How many Japanese players raid total and how many American/European players raid total? You could complain about players having a bad mentality if there was even remotely the same amount of raiders, but looking at statistics I would very much doubt it.

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Perhaps there would be more raiders if people were more willing to help each others out.
I for one would like to raid, but the harsh treatment people do get when trying to learn keeps alot of people away from trying to raid.
I am a good learner and learn fairly fast, but with all the "1 fail = kick" people out there, how would anyone even manage to learn? Watch a tutorial video? Sure, but that won't really help when you are actually in there.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

That insulting, considering there only two server types NA and JP. Cause EU servers are still technically NA servers.

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Ok.

/10char.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

This is embarrassing. We should be doing better than this. They play the exact same game as us and we aren't even competitive compared to them.

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Pretty sure someone's said it before, but basing it on my own experience playing with Japanese players on various mmos, the advantage they have over us is that 80% of NA/EU players whine, rage quit and throw fits if it's not done in a single run or if someone makes a simple mistake or they just don't have any interest in learning and expect to be carried, which ends up bringing down good groups. Japanese players tend to actually stick with it and learn the fight (from my experiences at least, maybe not all, but a good portion do). I've yet to see JP players ragequit over a single mistake like NA/EU players do or expect to be carried.

Another example of how NA/EU players are bad, remember Steps of faith? lol Such an easy fight but such stupid people not listening making it "hard" and wiping for hours.



Tl;dr - NA/EU players are lazy, "WE DIDN'T WIN ON A SINGLE TRY? /LEAVE", "OMG YOU SUCK FOR A SIMPLE MISTAKE! /LEAVE" types of people. JP put in more effort to learn a fight and don't expect to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Perhaps there would be more raiders if people were more willing to help each others out.
I for one would like to raid, but the harsh treatment people do get when trying to learn keeps alot of people away from trying to raid.
I am a good learner and learn fairly fast, but with all the "1 fail = kick" people out there, how would anyone even manage to learn? Watch a tutorial video? Sure, but that won't really help when you are actually in there.

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This ^
I learn fights extremely quickly, even while the fight is going on too, but theres too many "Don't have fight on farm? Kick" people out there to even try :/ Not to mention the hordes of bad people who refuse to learn too lol I got SO many of those trying to clear t5, even got a pt of people who claimed they "beat this and will get us the win", all of them made tons and tons of mistakes like they've never done the fight, it wasn't even simple mistakes that even the most experienced person can make, it was "I've never done this fight but hope you guys will carry me through it" mistakes.

Theres a few fights I've yet to clear because the furthest I've gotten is almost to the end, but most people see that as "never done the fight before" and won't even give me a try. Even though it's about 10 seconds of typing to explain the final part lol

Tonberry representing, looks like we are actually a pretty good server. Never regretted transferring from NA.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

-snip-

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I'm a full time biology/health science major with a wife and a semi active social life. The progression of final coil has been my last priority in life. And not to sound insulting but maybe you're valuing what others have been doing compared to yourself a bit too much.

Yup. Both camps don't realize the other side is right too.

Entitled elitists: rawr! Group wiped. Gaem over! /rage quit. N00b wasting my time. There's no way I had anything to do with that wipe I cleared this fight (once) already! It's all those noobs fault!

sure champ.

Entitled casual: rawr! Stupid elitists won't search me out and make a group for me! I'm really skilled, so it's not my fault I can't win! I just need someone to give me the chance but they never do!

Sure champ.

Entitled 'it's not MY fault' idiocy runs deep in both trenches war camps. That's why that whole debate is dumb. It's not someone else's fault. If you can't seem to succeed, maybe just maybe it's yur OWN fault. Not all the dumb scapegoats people make up to support their idea that they are more special than they are.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

The embarrassing part is not the data itself, it is the reasoning behind it. As others have stated, people in NA are so prone to rage quitting, me me me mentality, obscene requirements to get in a party, selling clears, unwilling to help without getting something in return, etc. etc. that it's no wonder why the numbers are what they are.

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Okay, I get that people have a thing against selling clears, and that's fine, but there's no way we should bring up selling clears as part of the problem of having less clears.

I don't get why this is even a big deal to begin with. Low clear rates isn't going to affect "you" personally. Was there some golden measure of raid standards that I wasn't told?

Lol, who cares? You're actually embarrassed that Japanese players are better than us collectively? It's a video game, dude. Are you having fun? No? Then quit. Yes? Then don't worry about what people on other servers are doing.

Americans, NA place a high value on individuality rather then the team. Meaning they like fights where they doing something special or alone can change the course of the battle. Most Coils, most encounters and most of the class skills are not that powerful enough to make the skill-set of said players better. Its culture, Japanese players work way better together because they are less about individuals and care more working as a single unit.

We want to be the thing that wins and changes the fights. However many encounters, especially the Final Coils are all about the team.

In older games, a single good player could change a fight and make you win. However in this game a single player can't pull through and do all the mechanics for other people.

If you see the content focus on less on teamwork and more on individual power I bet you will see Japanese players failing.

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Originally Posted by Velox

The average download speed in Japan is 71.97 Mbps
The average download speed in the USA is 35.16 Mbps
The average download speed in Canada is 29.83

The truth is that it's not about skill, or willingness to do said content. It's all about infrastructure. The desire to raid and ability to learn will always be trumped by the fact that NA consists of First-world nations with Third-world internet access. Latency in this game is EVERYTHING when dealing with 1-shot mechanics. Not to mention many ISPs here still think 3-5 Mbps is "good enough" and don't even offer anything faster.

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I'm from Argentina, several thousand kilometers to the south. No lag. Nice latency. I never get hit by mechanics. Maybe people should evaluate their ISP or just realize that their location is not optimal for mechanic-heavy MMOs.

Download speed have barely anything to do with lag. It's all latency.

MMOs are very playable with little to zero problems with a 1mbps download.


If you're lagging its because your latency is high, or the server is having problems(which is way more probable).

I agree, this is a severe problem.

You should come to Hyperion and get me my T9 and T10-13 wins.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

I'm from Argentina, several thousand kilometers to the south. No lag. Nice latency. I never get hit by mechanics. Maybe people should evaluate their ISP or just realize that their location is not optimal for mechanic-heavy MMOs.

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To be perfectly fair, comparing the network infrastructure of any country to that in the US of A is like comparing the sewer systems of any major city to the sewers in Rome. Sure, they still work with a little upkeep, but it doesn't mean that the foundation isn't the oldest out there. Might as well have SPQR printed on most of our network hubs.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Okay, I get that people have a thing against selling clears, and that's fine, but there's no way we should bring up selling clears as part of the problem of having less clears.

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In most cases, you're right. However, I guarantee there are people out there that end up completely demotivated to continue looking for learning/progression parties in PF if all they ever see are sell parties.

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Originally Posted by Able

Lol, who cares? You're actually embarrassed that Japanese players are better than us collectively? It's a video game, dude. Are you having fun? No? Then quit. Yes? Then don't worry about what people on other servers are doing.

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Yeah no, you have to admit this is hilarious. Yay, let's all realize coil is a competition!
Must compete with Japan to be numero uno top tier Coilz! If I felt like I wanna do a competition I'd go play League for hours on end
then stream it, at least I'd get some chump change out of it.
http://i.imgur.com/T1yHj4q.gif

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

This is embarrassing. We should be doing better than this.

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Why?

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They play the exact same game as us and we aren't even competitive compared to them.

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This is a competitive game?

i believe O'bama is speaking on this very issue tonight during his Presidential address. Please tune in fellow Americans.

This embarrassment touches us ALL.

TL;DR -- who cares.

[RANT]

From personal experience:

1. People in the West have no drive.

My first static (which started on SCoB) started as 8 people who, as a complete team, showed up for...1 raid. Seriously, we had 1 raid as a full static before people a.) stopped showing up on time b.) stopped showing up at all c.) gave feeble excuses for why they couldn't attend...the list goes on. Sure, real life does sometimes clash with raid times and you won't be able to make it, but do you really need to see granny every Wednesday, the one day everyone else can make, when you could see her on Thursday instead? Do you really need to get drunk every Friday night and have nothing to show for it but a splitting headache on Saturday morning? Chances are you don't, but people will slack off and play the Real Life card when it suits them. They will turn up when they feel like it and, when the team goes nowhere, they'll just leave and hope to latch onto someone else who'll carry them through the content.

2. The constant reinforcement of the idea that "Nobody gets left behind".

We're brought up with the mindset that we're all special snowflakes and we can do anything! What was that? I can't do something?

"THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT!"
"MAKE IT SO I CAN DO IT! I SHOULD BE SPECIAL TOO!"
"I'M GOING TO QUIT!"

If we have to put effort into something, like improving ourselves, it's too much for us. We can't do it. The world should change to accommodate us, we shouldn't have to change. Guess what? When everyone is a special snowflake, everyone is the same. I believe there are very few people who are bad in such an irredeemable way that there's no hope, but you can't get better at something if you refuse to put in the effort and if you don't want to put in the effort? That's fine. That's a valid choice. Just don't complain if you don't make any progress.

[/RANT]

Sure there are exceptions to the above, otherwise all of the NA/EU servers would be on <1%, but it goes a long way to explaining why we trail the JP servers by such a large margin.

tl;dr - People in the West don't care enough to beat the content but do care enough to moan about not being able to beat the content.

The worst part is simply that these hardcore fights lock out a major story arc. Which, considering how I recall the way the "raiding community" in FFXI treated the RotZ story progression, is completely insane and bizarre to me.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

The worst part is simply that these hardcore fights lock out a major story arc. Which, considering how I recall the way the "raiding community" in FFXI treated the RotZ story progression, is completely insane and bizarre to me.

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It's not as major as it seems. It gives answers to what has happened, but it doesn't really hold any baring on anything going forward. Especially since it becomes a "Don't ask, don't tell" story.

Interesting, did someone make a connection to lag issues?

1st JP
2nd NA
3rd EU

well, not representative, but still - you should at least consider it a fragment of the problem!

Edit: It is fun if you travel to NA or JP and play FFXIV... the difference is overwhelming...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Interesting, did someone make a connection to lag issues?

1st JP
2nd NA
3rd EU

well, not representative, but still - you should at least consider it a fragment of the problem!

Edit: It is fun if you travel to NA or JP and play FFXIV... the difference is overwhelming...

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Lag is the fallback excuse in 95% of cases when someone has failed to react in time to a mechanic. It's the actual reason the other 5% of times unless your internet currently consists of two cups tied together with string.

PS: I live in the EU and I can count the times I've actually had lag issues without having to resort to my toes.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

JP servers: everyone close to Japan. You know, like Australia and New Zealand, and south-east Asia?
NA servers: everyone close to the US.

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Not everyone. I play in Hyperion due to legacy friends even though I'm in asia and my ping is at 300 but I've completed every single fight in the game, dodged landslides, dodged cauterize, dodged divebombs just fine. I don't even consider myself to have better than average reaction time considering I've compared myself to my irl friends and just lose to them when it comes to video games. So I tend to see players blaming having that much latency (the latency I play at) to be a pretty invalid excuse. But that's just me.

Look at more casual friendly games like shooters, particularly ones developed in the West, and you'll see that the best of the best in NA can, and more often than not do, defeat the best of the best Japanese players in direct competitions.

As people have said, people should only be embarrassed (assuming it is even worth getting embarrassed about, which in my opinion it's not) if they are defeated at a personal level. Japan's culture being one that encourages planning and teamwork over one that encourages individualism and the fact that coil takes an investment to complete is why these numbers are as they are. This is not a good example of a competition between players, and if anything only highlights that a culture more about long term devotion to completing a goal succeeds in a challenge that requires as such more than a culture that is not about it.

Trying to get people to feel embarrassed over such a broad, impersonal "loss" like this is silly. That being said though, I would not at all be surprised if the average FFXIV JP player is more skilled at this game than the average NA player. Much like as said before, MMOs in general are an investment, and the average JP player is more willing to invest in them than the average NA player I imagine. Willing to try harder, learn more, etc.

But it is no accurate measure of personal skill potential of the players in either location. JP players just overall put more time and effort into things. It is not a direct competition as such. In a direct competition in a game with a much more even playing field, with less investment and time required to learn content (such as in an FPS), I think you'd see less of a gap between player skill at the game overall. So there's no reason to feel embarrassed.

I am sorry but I fail to see the problem. If you're trying to coerce people into doing something you feel is obligatory to gaming in MMOs you've made a grave misstep. Raiding is optional not required.

It's a culture difference. A higher majority in Japan play this game to down content. Simple as that. NA players can scapegoat coil sales, a toxic community, or elitism, but the truth is if you were driven to pursue content, these wouldn't matter and you would probably be creating or actively looking for a group that fits your schedule. After-all finding 7 other people with a similar mindset out of a couple thousand on all NA servers doesn't sound like too difficult a task. Not to mention, sales, elitism, and all that exists on JP servers but they're still clearing content on a large scale in comparison to us.