New jobs do not start at level 1

Ideally, it will be role-locked + level locked.

To unlock Astrologian, you must have SCH or WHM at 30/50.

To unlock Dark Knight, you must have PLD or WAR at 30/50.

To unlock Mechanist, you must have SMN, BLM, BRD, DRG, MNK, or NIN at 30/5

This way you don't have a Tank suddenly handling DPS mechanics, or likewise DPS learning to pull.

But I want each to start at 30/50

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Ideally, it will be role-locked + level locked.

To unlock Astrologian, you must have SCH or WHM at 30/50.

To unlock Dark Knight, you must have PLD or WAR at 30/50.

To unlock Mechanist, you must have SMN, BLM, BRD, DRG, MNK, or NIN at 30/5

This way you don't have a Tank suddenly handling DPS mechanics, or likewise DPS learning to pull.

But I want each to start at 30/50

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this isn't going to happen.
A lot of people have expressed that while they're interested in DRK, they have no interest in PLD or WAR
I hear this a lot, actually. Doing this would alienate players who want to play with the new toys, which is bad business.
Requiring *a* class at 30 is fine, though. But not specific classes. Otherwise, what's the difference between them and the class->job system they're going out of their way to not implement anymore?

If that's the case, looks like I'll be FATE grinding Marauder & Gladiator 15 more levels to unlock DRK. "Why not just grind dungeons?" you ask? Well, I have no desire to tank dungeons, not because the available tanking roles bore or that I find the concept of tanking boring, it's the other players. I'd most likely tank for FC/LS peeps as there's no pressure to perform perfectly on my first time. I'm becoming less anxious the more I heal dungeons with my Conjurer. (Recently healed Ifrit, though the Gladiator & Rogue died because I was avoiding plumes, the Archer & I were able to finish off Ifrit. I wasn't stressed out & I did warn them that I had never healed Ifrit. And they were cool with it.)

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Originally Posted by kyuven

this isn't going to happen.
A lot of people have expressed that while they're interested in DRK, they have no interest in PLD or WAR
I hear this a lot, actually. Doing this would alienate players who want to play with the new toys, which is bad business.
Requiring *a* class at 30 is fine, though. But not specific classes. Otherwise, what's the difference between them and the class->job system they're going out of their way to not implement anymore?

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Each job requires 2 classes to be a certain level. There is no way that drk won't require PLD to 15 because a tank without provoke won't function in a lot of situations where tanks swaps are needed.

I'm starting to feel that it would be much better to have a singe "freelancer" class until 30, then let people unlock advanced jobs.

Also have to take a stab at cross class skills. Unless DRK gets cross class skills from something else you will need to level the other tank jobs. I fear that we will end up with DRKs in non tanking gear with non tanking abilities and be all " I am really a DPS." See that (insert expletive here) with enough WARs now.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Ideally, it will be role-locked + level locked.

To unlock Astrologian, you must have SCH or WHM at 30/50.

To unlock Dark Knight, you must have PLD or WAR at 30/50.

To unlock Mechanist, you must have SMN, BLM, BRD, DRG, MNK, or NIN at 30/5

This way you don't have a Tank suddenly handling DPS mechanics, or likewise DPS learning to pull.

But I want each to start at 30/50

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I'm pretty sure it's been said the Extra Jobs won't require any base classes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I heard. =w=;

If this is just because people are lazy and don't want to level new jobs from 1, the answer isn't to start them higher, it's to lower the exp required to level up. If 1-15 or 1-30 is such a terrible slog that you never want to do it again then obviously it needs to be changed.

I don't know why modern games have to be all "endgame, endgame, endgame." I played FFXI for 2.5 years starting in like 2010, so far behind, it was like forget about "endgame" but I loved that game because I enjoyed doing all the things including leveling up. I wish I could do that with FFXIV. Leveling from 1-60 will probably only take a couple of days but no let's cut that time in half. It's no wonder that "hardcores" complain about "casuals" wanting things "handed to them."

Some of us "casuals" do NOT want stuff handed to us, SE. Please don't deny us the full leveling experience.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

I don't know why modern games have to be all "endgame, endgame, endgame." I played FFXI for 2.5 years starting in like 2010, so far behind, it was like forget about "endgame" but I loved that game because I enjoyed doing all the things including leveling up. I wish I could do that with FFXIV. Leveling from 1-60 will probably only take a couple of days but no let's cut that time in half. It's no wonder that "hardcores" complain about "casuals" wanting things "handed to them."

Some of us "casuals" do NOT want stuff handed to us, SE. Please don't deny us the full leveling experience.

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Leavling really isn't that fun and the game is focused on endgame with dungeons and raids. Its grinding which takes almost no skill running in fates pushing a few buttons. Ninja for example you had to do fates because dungeon queues were 2-3 hours. Once you get to endgame you can acutally play your class like how it was ment to be played.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Leveling from 1-60 will probably only take a couple of days

Some of us "casuals" do NOT want stuff handed to us, SE. Please don't deny us the full leveling experience.

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Congrats for totally ruining whatever point you were trying to make. If you do that in 2 days, you're not a casual. You've grinded the heck out of the game for 48 hours straight with a full preformed party to get rid of the queues

Also, levelling is fine in horizontal progression games like FFxi because the gear you get while levelling may actually be relevant for a long time. FFxiv has chosen the vertical path. Gear is trash. levelling now only has the value left when gearing is not an option anymore : tedious thing to do before you reach the real game.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Why not just start us at 60 then if leveling is such a pointless part of the game?

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tbh, it serves a purpose, the first time you do it. You learn the game, its mechanics and synergies. After that, well all the classes start equal, so we also have to level them up all the way.

But IF (example only, pulled out of nowhere) you'd need to be lv50 to start DRK/AST/MCN, you already had that time to learn. If you don't know the basics by then, you'll never know them, because you just refused to learn them (they're literally bashed in your head during the first story dungeons). With that in mind, all you need to know for any new class/job is how the skills work together and how to pull out the maximum out of it. It does NOT require a whole 1 => 50 levelling. Someone who knows the basics can learn how to be OK in a new job taking it at lv30, when we begin to have a real shadow of a rotation and stop the 1-2-3 spam until death.

I think lv15 would be fine to start the new jobs, lv30 would be better BUT lv30 dungeons may be tricky if people have no clue, so it would lead to unnecessary wipes.

Why not just start us at 60 then if leveling is such a pointless part of the game?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Each job requires 2 classes to be a certain level. There is no way that drk won't require PLD to 15 because a tank without provoke won't function in a lot of situations where tanks swaps are needed.

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That doesn't actually mean anything because you don't get provoke until level 22.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Congrats for totally ruining whatever point you were trying to make. If you do that in 2 days, you're not a casual. You've grinded the heck out of the game for 48 hours straight with a full preformed party to get rid of the queues

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Depends on the definition of "casual." Many players assert that it is not time spent playing but willingness to tackle and ability to beat difficult content that separates a "casual" from a "hardcore." I've personally never liked this dichotomy myself. I don't think there are just 2 types of players but a whole spectrum.

But anyway, I can gain a level about every 20 min which means it'd only take about 20 hours to level each class from 1-60. Before I found the most efficient methods and knew the game, the slowest I ever leveled was 1 level per hour. Sure that equals 60 hours (remember, this is the slowest pace) but it's still way faster than any other game and some people (like myself) actually do not find it pointless and really enjoy it.

Seriously, why even have levels if everyone can start at the top? Maybe they help you "learn your job" but you could arguably learn your job faster if you just started at max level with all abilities and a full rotation and spent the time you would've formerly spent on leveling on "learning your job." Maybe leveling is a thing of the past but it feels off to me to have to level our other jobs fully but not these new ones, like a lack of symmetry.

Leveling is part of the RPG experience. I don't like abolishing any part of it.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

..

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Because at some point, it becomes more of a chore than anything when you have expansion after expansion, level raises after level raises, though this only applies for something like WoW, but I guess some people would make that example with lvl 50 to 60 in heavensward.

No one is "starting at the top either". That'd literally be starting the game at level 60 when heavensward came out. With a full set of raid-ready gear.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

...yeah, the new jobs are now officially the weirdest thing this game has come up with so far... and I've seen Hildibrand in a dress.

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I'm confused. What exactly is weird about Hildebrand in a dress? Surely you don't mean "male in a dress" because clothing does not have a gender. Have you ever seen males or females born wearing clothes? No, they're man-made. Gender is biological. Clothing is not. You've basically been forced and brainwashed from a young age into a societal construct that you're expected to conform to, and if you don't you're labeled as weird. And for the record pants only existed in recent times. Prior to that males and females wore dresses and skirts, and in many places males still do wear dresses and skirts. When I first saw that part of the Hildebrand questline, I felt embarrassed for SE because they tried making a joke of a male wearing a dress, and there was nothing funny about that. He looked great. It was just a shame SE tried making it look goofy due to Hildebrand typically being a goof. The fact that SE made a mockery of "male in a dress" almost made me unsub when I saw that. And no, I'm not a male. I'm just an intelligent person. I'm going to hope that what you meant is that you're just not use to seeing Hildebrand wear a dress since it's not his usual attire.

People keep mentioning cross class skills, when we have no idea if these new jobs will even have such a thing.

I kind of hope they don't, I would like to see the new jobs be totally unique and designed in a way that they are completely sufficient with their own skill set.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

People keep mentioning cross class skills, when we have no idea if these new jobs will even have such a thing.

I kind of hope they don't, I would like to see the new jobs be totally unique and designed in a way that they are completely sufficient with their own skill set.

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Ya I've yet to hear how they will handle Cross-skills for the new Jobs and future new jobs if they plan to not give them a Base class.

It is possible that SE and Yoshi-P may make GLA, THM, MAR,PGL, LNC, ROG, CNJ, ARC and ACN as the main source of cross-skills and future new Jobs won't provide new cross-skills but must obtain cross-skills from two of the classes .

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I kind of hope they don't, I would like to see the new jobs be totally unique and designed in a way that they are completely sufficient with their own skill set.

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Please look forward to the DRK's completely unique taunt-based ability, "Death Glare". It sets an enemy's aggro to be the highest player's+1 for you.

the joke is they would probably actually do this

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Originally Posted by Krr

Please look forward to the DRK's completely unique taunt-based ability, "Death Glare". It sets an enemy's aggro to be the highest player's+1 for you.

the joke is they would probably actually do this

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Watch it cost MP too when its time to tank swap the dark would say he can't take the boss yet because he used all his mp dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Watch it cost MP too when its time to tank swap the dark would say he can't take the boss yet because he used all his mp dpsing.

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umm, I think you mean "I activated Souleater too many times, heals pls why am i dead"

honestly though if DRK doesn't have 500 potential ways for me to ruin everything and myself, I won't consider it a good job, that's why I mained drg

I recall yoshi saying at fanfest that a new player could start as new job even if they joined day one of expansion

Ppl is everywhere speculating you'll need one of the old classes lvled to 30 before jumping to the new ones...if you do that, pls SE pls...put some big shinny pointy signs everywhere.

Otherwise day 1 of Heavenguard forums will be filled with complains of ppl saying "i bought this to play DKN and you force me to lvl other class i'm not interested in, you lied to me!"

Advanced Jobs. I'm very happy to see this inclusion! Great way to add the really powerful classes, Like Red Mage.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

I recall yoshi saying at fanfest that a new player could start as new job even if they joined day one of expansion

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That's not quite what was said. When asked if you can be the new jobs right away he said yes, you can be the new jobs on day one, maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe? Maybe.

So, it wont take days to unlock it but it's not going to be a starter class for making new characters and it was never implied that way.

Have to admit, this sucks in my opinion. I enjoy leveling my jobs from the ground up and the experience won't be quite the same. I really hope they don't continue this trend moving forward, leveling is one of the most enjoyable experiences to me. I really hope it doesn't start you out any higher than level 15.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

I recall yoshi saying at fanfest that a new player could start as new job even if they joined day one of expansion

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This could be. but you can also get from level 1 to 50 in 2-3 day.. so ya

Great all the dark knights that have no clue how to tank now tanking higher level content.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Have to admit, this sucks in my opinion. I enjoy leveling my jobs from the ground up and the experience won't be quite the same. I really hope they don't continue this trend moving forward, leveling is one of the most enjoyable experiences to me. I really hope it doesn't start you out any higher than level 15.

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I agree, I always see SE saying that they are trying to follow popular mmos like world or warcraft; however, if they look at the release of the death knight which was also a advance class that started at a higher level they would notice that this method is not good because you reach endgame too fast, and you have no idea how to play your job/class. Plus what about the lower levels are they gonna abandon them because everyone is going to be leveling in the 30+ dungeons so that means any new players that join the game will feel like the game is dying.

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

So would u guys recommend getting a tank class to level 30 to then become a DARK knight or any class at level 30 would be fine. thinking of going paladin as well. but i don't know if i want to play as two tanks

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If the new jobs really are going to start at level 30 and you've never played a tanking class before, it certainly wouldn't hurt to level PLD or WAR just to get a feel for how tanks operate in general. Things like how much enmity is sufficient to keep a group's attention off the healer, handling the delay that mobs have before they'll follow you to a new position when you're trying to pile them all together, what to do about ranged enemies that keep their distance while you're trying to group them - that kind of thing. This isn't information you can learn just by looking at your list of skills; you pretty much have to be in the thick of things. You might be able to pick up a few things by watching a tank as a healer or DPS, but I honestly don't know if that would be sufficient.

There's quite a lot a tank learns from level 1 through 30 that these theoretical start-at-level-30 Dark Knights won't have. As others have mentioned, I shudder to think what partying with a fresh Dark Knight in Haukke Manor would be like, if that DRK had never touched a tank before!

Still waiting on confirmation on this, I truly believe it would be a moronic mistake to not take this golden opportunity to add players to not only to low level dungeons but also to unpopular roles. I was initially against DRK tanks but as Yoshi said himself "now finally we have enough tanks! (translated at London fan fest)" This to me implies that the developers have been monitoring the trends and see from the very beginning they wanted to do something to help with low level dungeon ques. What better way to address so many issues than with an immensely popular job filling a vastly unpopular role. The team knows how popular DRK is, they know SAM is wanted by a tremendous amount of FF series Fans, and both were considered for the new tank position, this was not a mistake/ unintentional. To think they would pass up the chance to not help newer players just coming in the FFXIV with a deluge of people leveling the new jobs from 1- 60 just seems such a wasted chance. Seriously if the new jobs started at 30 does that mean they will inherently never be able to que for lower level content? What abilities would they lose access to if any? Does that make them overpowered in those areas necessitating in effect one use these jobs only to clear them at a faster/ easier rate? Was there not a whole other thread bashing the idea of easy mode content, but this to be expected/ accepted? People hurt my brain...

I am certain there will be a requirement like for example must unlock it by having a level 50 or 30 character because else it seriously undermines all the older classes in a very big way, why would most people make any other class if the new ones get to start at 30 while the old you have to grind your way up from 1. So I am sure you wont be able to just make your first ever character in the game a level 30 one without some sort of requirement like mentioned above, it just wouldn't make sense within the constructs of the pre-existing system both in relation to low level content from dungeons/story being skipped/not unlocked and how it is detrimental to the old class system.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Have to admit, this sucks in my opinion. I enjoy leveling my jobs from the ground up and the experience won't be quite the same. I really hope they don't continue this trend moving forward, leveling is one of the most enjoyable experiences to me. I really hope it doesn't start you out any higher than level 15.

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Same here. How does everybody expect us to know how to play the classes effectively if we're at a high level? The best time to learn how to play a class is when you're leveling it from scratch, then you start to develop skill with it. Try getting SMN or SCH to 50 and then try playing with the other...it's massively confusing and takes a good while to get good since you don't know what rotations to use or any tricks to making certain things easier.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Same here. How does everybody expect us to know how to play the classes effectively if we're at a high level? The best time to learn how to play a class is when you're leveling it from scratch, then you start to develop skill with it. Try getting SMN or SCH to 50 and then try playing with the other...it's massively confusing and takes a good while to get good since you don't know what rotations to use or any tricks to making certain things easier.

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What you are talking about is suddenly being cap on a class you dont know how to play, honestly every class pre 30 isnt remotely like its endgame counter part so all you are doing is learning the wrong way to play it. As much of a head start on skills as they can give me will be fine. Not interested in a repeat of the lvl 15 to 30 pld tanking experience again

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Same here. How does everybody expect us to know how to play the classes effectively if we're at a high level? The best time to learn how to play a class is when you're leveling it from scratch, then you start to develop skill with it. Try getting SMN or SCH to 50 and then try playing with the other...it's massively confusing and takes a good while to get good since you don't know what rotations to use or any tricks to making certain things easier.

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Running to fates and hitting like 1 button over and over doesn't teach you how top play your class either. Most good players will know how to play their classes regardless of what level they start at.

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Originally Posted by Set-Abominae

Not interested in a repeat of the lvl 15 to 30 pld tanking experience again

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I don't do the Low Level roulette on my PLD mostly because I hate that 2-step combo spam. Tanking low level simply isn't an enjoyable experience. Post Halone, yes, I'll tank if FC friends need me. But anything before that...well I'll still tank for FC friends but I will not do the Low Level Roulette solo anymore.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Running to fates and hitting like 1 button over and over doesn't teach you how top play your class either. Most good players will know how to play their classes regardless of what level they start at.

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I run dungeons exclusively to level for healer and tank classes, no better way to learn them well then throwing them into the fire. DPS I admit I end up having to do levequests in between dungeon runs due to the horrid queue times. But if people want to speed to cap, nothing is going to stop them. The question here is do you want to learn how to play slowly by starting at level 1, or just be at cap level and get curbstomped constantly until you eventually learn?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Running to fates and hitting like 1 button over and over doesn't teach you how top play your class either.

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I love how people automatically assume everyone does fates and only fates >_> There's a large portion of players, myself included, who spam dungeons over fates.

2-4k (depending on rested exp) per kill plus boss exp at the end > ~5k from a fate with sometimes 10 minutes waiting for more to pop

i personally love levelin aspect of the game 1-50 im in no rush to max n gear every single character since ps4 armoury space is just ._. and love to take my time so not bein able to start machinst from level 1 disappoints me ._.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The question here is do you want to learn how to play slowly by starting at level 1, or just be at cap level and get curbstomped constantly until you eventually learn?

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If your learning curve requires you to go slow, go for it, all i need is the tool tips to tell me how to play my job. This is one of the easier MMO's and it isn't remotely necessary to start a job with 2 skills and turtle grind to absorb everything i need to know. I assure you my teeth will not be on that curb.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I love how people automatically assume everyone does fates and only fates >_> There's a large portion of players, myself included, who spam dungeons over fates.

2-4k (depending on rested exp) per kill plus boss exp at the end > ~5k from a fate with sometimes 10 minutes waiting for more to pop

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Because I played 1.0 all my jobs were at 50 before the game came out, I leveled my arc on quests, so the only job I ever leveled outside of quests was Ninja which you had to do fates only because dungeon queues were 3 hours.

Completely agree.
I think they are just taking away the experience of getting the character to grow. 1-30 is where you learn the basic skills of the job if you just slap all skills to learn at once you're not only creating terrible df experiences for everyone, you're also taking away content people could enjoy.

On top of that you're killing the activity of low lvl dungeons which btw a LOT of us still need for leveling and relic objectives.