Have we gone too far?

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Originally Posted by Accolade

Hmm I thought Yoshi from the outset said that XIV was to be a very casual MMO to bring in bigger crowds, or appeal to fans of the previous single player FF series (some brand new to MMOs) .

I dont have a source for this, so you can take it or leave it.
Sadly if you want a super hardcore/grind MMO, you are in the wrong place.

Not sure how far the OP has got in terms of raid content, but if he/she is farming t13 on a weekly basis, then they are well within rights to say this game is too easy. If not, then they still have some content left to challenge them.

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Ya I remember him saying that too lol so I was always confused, is this hardcore..or casual!? I wish this game had a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

-0 death penalties.

-Anywhere in the world accessible within a teleport and 30 second run.

-No claiming systems.

-0 difficulty story quests.

-0 difficulty leveling systems.

-Completion of 98% of the game's content without having to make any friends.

-98% of open world content solo'able with minimal gear and minimal effort.

-Access to all the game's instances and dungeons within two clicks of a button.

-No use for trade currency aside from vanity and minor quality of life perks. 1

-Abolition of pure support roles.


..How far the pendulum swings.

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Just my feedback, I find most things you point out an advantage this game has over other MMORPGs. This game has a bit content for everyone, skill level and time available alike. If the things you are pointing out is to be reversed, it'll make this game a more pain in the ass, and will discourage some folks to play.

Just look at Wild Star, it pretty much has most of the stuff you are asking for, and it's published and made by MMORPG vets. Why isn't that game doing better than this game? I played it and once the leveling wall hits at level 20 I came back to FF14.

I don't see why people complain about fast travel. Nothing is preventing them from running from place to place and not teleporting.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I don't see why people complain about fast travel.

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Then it's obvious you are not very empathetic.

Fast travel can be a great tool but it can be a hinderance at the same time. I've gone over my issues with the teleportation system many times and I wont "Just don't us it loooolz" because I would be puting myself at a massive disadvantage to other players by doing so. Between immersion and being able to build things like hunts and not have them implode with half the server crammed in a area. Instantatious travel has it's place but it shouldn't exist to such a prolific extent that the whole point of a overworld has become moot.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

-Anywhere in the world accessible within a teleport and 30 second run.

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if you don't like this you gonna hate GW2 so much , because in that game WP is everywhere 1 map have like 6 -12 WP D:
I think ffxiv doing great with WP though, not to much and be able to explore little bit . I have to admit , first when I play this game I never use any WP I only use choco taxi ( cuz its's cheaper :D ) I even plan to travel with my chocobo only and not use any WP too. lol

but when the time goes by , I like " aHHHH It's so farr ..... and then I teleport to it. :D ( save my time alot )

I have two words of comfort for people who are missing the hardcore XP grind:

Chocobo Leveling :D

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Originally Posted by myahele

I don't see why people complain about fast travel. Nothing is preventing them from running from place to place and not teleporting.

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I don't really want to go back to the good/bad old days, but Duty Finder instant teleport definitely breaks the immersion - it doesn't feel like you're actually going to the place, so you don't necessarily even remember where some dungeon entrances actually are if you never have to go there again! And although I like the fact that there's no entrance quest or fee (e.g. 50 oaknots and 10M gil) for an instance, it does cheapen things a bit compared to the bad old days. And I don't miss leaving an instance on party wipe, though it was kind of entertaining to raise a stack of fallen adventurers when they popped at the exit.

One thing I enjoyed about hunts (before they melted down again in 2.5) was that I ended up exploring lots of nooks and crannies of the world and becoming a lot more familiar with each area. Gathering is also good for exploring the great outdoors. Beast tribe quests were also good for exploring their respective areas. I also found more cool areas to hang out or just admire the scenery.

So, I wouldn't mind it if you got dumped outside the actual dungeon location after exiting, much as you do when you exit the residential areas. The sad thing is that everyone in your DF party is probably on another server, so you won't see them there anyway...

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Instantatious travel has it's place but it shouldn't exist to such a prolific extent that the whole point of a overworld has become moot.

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After I started FFXIV, I picked up Bravely Default (a very Final Fantasy-like game from SE) and was struck by how much time I spent wandering around the overworld! It was somewhat tedious (especially if you weren't excited about the frequent random battles) but also immersive because you actually felt like you were actually going to the Temple of Wind.

(On an unrelated note, I also enjoyed BD's job/subjob system...)

Most of the complaints being made by people in this thread consist of things that can simply be found in single-player RPGs. This is an MMO. You are looking for the wrong kinds of things in the wrong kind of game.

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After I started FFXIV, I picked up Bravely Default (a very Final Fantasy-like game from SE) and was struck by how much time I spent wandering around the overworld! It was somewhat tedious (especially if you weren't excited about the frequent random battles) but also immersive because you actually felt like you were actually going to the Temple of Wind.

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There's fast travel in Bravely Default too...

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Then it's obvious you are not very empathetic.

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Why? Because we don't empathize with people that want to screw over everyone just for their personal "immersion"? The "problems" you say that fast travel has aren't real problems.

I very rarely use teleports. Most of the time I take an airship to the closest city and chocobo it from there. I'm not going to demand that everyone plays like I do.

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Originally Posted by Meier

If they want this to be so hardcore, some changes need to be made. Its okay to have accessible things, but we need hard content. Not team jump rope.

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Oh really? And what is hard content exactly? Because the many suggestions that I see people putting in to supposedly make the game "hard" either make it easier or introduce rng based difficulty over skill based difficulty.

Yeah not really understand what are the beefs about this game... Its great that we have four ways of traveling, if you want fast, you pay and teleport, you can manually ride a mount, ride a scripted way via chocobo, or walk it off. The battle here is really really good. It is team jump rope, with some random elements. Yes the move has patterns, but you never know who is going to be targeted next, you don't know where they are going to point out their AOE moves/conal/directional attack. The fights are taxing, but fair, and 90% of the game contents are accessible, heck pretty much all of them are accessible. You may not be able to clear them all, but that's only a minority of contents.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Why? Because we don't empathize with people that want to screw over everyone just for their personal "immersion"?.

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Your not understanding what empathy is when you said that people "Screw over" other people.

Nor did you even read my post, or understand it at least. Your innabillity to see the inherent flaws with the fast travel system aren't my problem, they still exist wether you want to believe it does or not. Hunts are the best example of a system in the open world turned hillariously bad and toxic due to how easy it is to move from one part of the world to another. Without such ease of access people would probably do hunts as they were designed with small groups and we wouldn't have a entire server of people clammoring to one area and servers just having a overall toxic community in regards to this.

I'm not saying there should be no fast travel, I'm just saying it needs to be toned down in terms of either proliferation and/or accessabillity. Obviously the issue becomes then a "Why?" because the open world has little interesting to offer besides hunts. Obviously that's up to the development team as the current travel system works perfectly for a overworld with nothing to offer by making it as pointless as they ammount of content contained within.

The overworld is pretty much a big lobby area with empty space between the hubs, that maybe...just maybe a quest will fling you out into the wilderness to have you never return again.

Unlike you I do actually Empathise with people who don't want to spend timer traversing the overworld, because "aint nobody got time to do that in a genre of games created to make people waste their time" I get it it's "Inconvient" I'm not of the same opinion so I do feel fast travel has it's place just not at the rate it's available today.

While it is true that I was wrong in the way I used the word empathy, it is also true that people that want to make traveling more cumbersome in the game are screwing over everyone else.

Hunts aren't flawed because of fast travel, they're flawed because they're horribly designed. It's ridiculous that you're trying to argue that making hunts less accessible by ruining fast travel would fix them. Hell, it'd probably just lead to more drama with people saying that players should wait longer before pulling the mob.

I think the conversation in this thread is starting to go too far....
Anyway guess it's time to post gifs.
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...-Lebowskie.gif

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Oh really? And what is hard content exactly? Because the many suggestions that I see people putting in to supposedly make the game "hard" either make it easier or introduce rng based difficulty over skill based difficulty.

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How about actual support jobs for one. Two, a more complex battle system. Horizontal progression instead of this weird verticle thing they have going.

Actual hard battles instead of team jump rope...to name a few. Fighting a script is boring and easy. Literally nothing in this game is a challenge to me.

If you have any ideas, please feel free to add^^

I don't know about support roles, but it would be better if healers (namely WHM) get support abilities besides just healing. Maybe I'm just used to single player games that have healers have support-like abilites

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Originally Posted by Meier

How about actual support jobs for one. Two, a more complex battle system. Horizontal progression instead of this weird verticle thing they have going.

Actual hard battles instead of team jump rope...to name a few. Fighting a script is boring and easy. Literally nothing in this game is a challenge to me.

If you have any ideas, please feel free to add^^

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How nice, not a single real suggestion to how you would increase difficulty.

The only difficulty increase that introducing full support jobs would add to the game is another bottleneck for making parties.

Likewise, horizontal or vertical progression has nothing to do with difficulty.

Make the battle system more complex? How about providing specifics instead of banalities.

Nothing in the game is a challenge to you? I'm sorry to hear that, but given the small percentage of players doing Final Coil I wouldn't expect SE to make the game more difficult anytime soon. You're going to have to content yourself with being the god of gaming.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

There's fast travel in Bravely Default too...

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I think that's the point - IIRC in spite of things like teleport stones and ships (and airships - it's Final Fantasy!) after you unlock them, you still had to traverse the overworld to get to most of the dungeons (though you could turn off random encounters if you wanted, removing that bit of challenge or irritation...)

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Originally Posted by Avenger

I think that's the point - IIRC in spite of things like teleport stones and ships (and airships - it's Final Fantasy!) after you unlock them, you still had to traverse the overworld to get to most of the dungeons (though you could turn off random encounters if you wanted, removing that bit of challenge or irritation...)

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I was thinking more of porting to a random aetheryte and having to walk to wherever you want to vs fast traveling to the continent you want and then flying to the dungeon you want. It's actually even faster in BD since the world map is very small and it only takes a dozen of seconds to travel a continet.

I thought BD was a weird example to bring up since it's got difficulty slider, random encounters slider, auto-attack, one hand button configurations... it's even more catered towards casual play than FFXIV. I mean I hated that game but FFXIV could take a few things from it lol.

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Originally Posted by Meier

How about actual support jobs for one. Two, a more complex battle system. Horizontal progression instead of this weird verticle thing they have going.

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I wonder, have you ever played FFXI at all? They have TONS of support jobs. Do you know what happened in that game? NOBODY wants to play support jobs. Everything takes way way way too long to get done, things takes hours to gather people (and guess which are the jobs missing on the party set up? yup, no one wants to play support jobs). The typical shout would be "veteran whm - must know how to heal, bard with relic/empy/three songs - veteran only".

The developer of FFXI is having such a hard time balancing the content - most players DO not want to play support jobs. And out of the many of them, only Bard is regarded as the must have by players - yet most people will rather quit than being told "you play bard ok, or we won't invite you doing any endgame content". The same goes for healer roles or Scholar Stun Lock, player just do not want to play any of them. As for tanks, lolololololol, pretty much DO NOT exist, because general consensus deemed that tank is a wasted party spot. Party set up for endgame usually consist of DPS, healer, and support job. The developer had to create contents that specifically will insta kill players unless you bring a PLD (veteran only please, newbies need not apply, go play WoW you noob).

FFXI also have "LOL random" boss move, which you know, typically goes like this, DPS just auto attack the boss, hit macro when their TP is 100, hit more macro for a few cool down, repeat, sit tight whacking the boss, no need to move anywhere or pay attention to anything. You can have long conversation typing a short story while hitting macro. There is no such thing as telegraphed move, or any order that makes sense, bosses just spew moves as they please. This has changed with the latest expansion though, where deadly moves are more structured like FF14 (translation - so many great things from FF14 are being assimilated to FF11 now, which is a good thing).

Guess what the healer and bard/support must do? Yeah you can guess by now why so very few people bother to play as support jobs. "HEAL !!! OMG Curaga 3!!! Esuna!!! Paralyna!!! Viruna!!! Stona!!! Songs please!!! Hello, gimme songs!!! I only have 2, Ballad!!!!!! HASTE me!! Haste songs are off!! Scholar need haste! Stun that move! Bard help heal, and status removal!! YO, stop hitting me with MP songs dammit - songs wear off".

^ Yea I played. Support jobs were my main. COR, BRD, DNC.

In Aion, I played support, same with L2.

Everyone and their mom played the support jobs, IDK what you are talking about lol. I had so many BRD, COR and RDM friends. EVERYONE leveled RDM.

Are we talking about the same game? Did YOU play FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Yeah how the eff are you gonna level a full support class? You buff yourself and autoattack ladybugs to death? Oh no no no no no.

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Wow, I never thought of that! There have never been full support classes in any other MMOs ever, have there? Because they could never be leveled!!! /sarcasm