Healer should not dps in the dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I was in the snowcloack today and some kind of bard started whining about that cause i did dps and spam holy in the aoe pulls. Nobody died in that whole 15min dungeon and just before the last boss i get kicked from the party because i did dps as whm. If i keep everybody alive do it really matter if i m doing dps? They just said "you should only heal because your role is healer if you wanna dps you should roll dps"

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Wow, what a shitty party. I DPS on healer all the time and bitch about the dps doing less damage than me - yet to be kicked

I prefer the whm to holy during runs cause it makes it go faster.

How dare you spam holy and out dps a bard who tried to guard his dps pride? :-P His little ego would not have suffered if you were a BLM!

Then again, as a WHM myself, I must admit Holy in speed run can be addictive.

My main is SMN but SMN have limited aoe damage thanks for the 2.1 bane nerfs. And second thing, dps que is lot longer than healer. And third thing is that you do runs like 5 - 10 minutes faster if you do something useful between your regens tick.

I also agree with the majority, you're fine doing DPS as healer as long as your tank doesn't die. I love to bust out as many Holys as possible as soon as I know the tank will stay up. The stuns help and you speedup the run significantly.

That bard's a freaking moron lol. If anything they've should be doing their job and keeping Foe's up as soon as they saw you pumping out Holy.

As someone who has mained WHM and SCH for almost a year, I always DPS when I can. And I ususually can in any dungeon, sometimes even in some EX primals.

As a WHM, I love to Divine Seal then Regen and Med II the tank, and Cleric Stance, Presence of Mind and Holy if there are 3+ enemies. If there are only a few, I cleric and Stone II, Aero and Aero II.

As a SCH, I love to Adlo the tank, then Cleric and Shadow Flare, Bio II, Miasma and Bio then Bane, even throwing in some Ruins before I switch back to heal.

When I go as an actual DPS, if I see the healer standing around doing absolutely nothing during times of low-to-no healing, they will not get commendations from me.

I'm really happy you made this I was just wondering about this. I've just started healing just making lvl 30 with my cnj, absolutely loving it but one or two times I've been sniped at for dpsing, despite having no issues with healing and spare time when healing would have been a waste. Great, keep it up and so will I!

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I was in the snowcloack today and some kind of bard started whining about that cause i did dps and spam holy in the aoe pulls. Nobody died in that whole 15min dungeon and just before the last boss i get kicked from the party because i did dps as whm. If i keep everybody alive do it really matter if i m doing dps? They just said "you should only heal because your role is healer if you wanna dps you should roll dps"

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The only person that you need to listen to is the tank, as your casting Holy impacts NOONE ELSE. You're giving the bard a great opportunity to use a song that doesn't negatively impact their damage / they have no reason to complain.

--Please keep happily spamming holy. If you get paired with someone like me, you can be assured that we'll vote "no" to anyone that attempts to kick you. That is all.

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Originally Posted by RaineMagus

The only person that you need to listen to is the tank, as your casting Holy impacts NOONE ELSE. You're giving the bard a great opportunity to use a song that doesn't negatively impact their damage / they have no reason to complain.

--Please keep happily spamming holy. If you get paired with someone like me, you can be assured that we'll vote "no" to anyone that attempts to kick you. That is all.

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Who you kiddin' =/ Most bards don't play songs, unless they are low on TP then MAYBE they will play paeon if there's no ninja to goad them.

My only gripe as a tank when a WHM is spamming Holy... is when they don't heal at all and tell me that I should constantly be popping CDs so they can just AoE all the time. If you can differentiate between when it's time to DPS and when it's time to heal, that's fine, but it's just as annoying to make me do all the work to keep myself alive just so a healer can kill the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

Who you kiddin' =/ Most bards don't play songs, unless they are low on TP then MAYBE they will play paeon if there's no ninja to goad them.

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This is sadly true... (however)

Usually I find that a polite request containing "please" is all that it takes, at least to get "foe". Sometimes people just forget and need a reminder.

Actually had a dps whm in qarn an hour ago was awesome not seen one in ages, the tank had left party lol glad i put join in progress on :)

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Originally Posted by RaineMagus

This is sadly true... (however)

Usually I find that a polite request containing "please" is all that it takes, at least to get "foe". Sometimes people just forget and need a reminder.

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Feh bad Bards. Sing them songs. I'll sing and lower my own DPS if it means watching the healer or Black mage decimate the group of enemies. Or if the Melees need to keep going. I like helping folks. xD Plus its in the job description. XD

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

It's far more exciting to keep swapping out between Cleric Stance and regular healing stance while balancing your damage with your heals to get the most out of both, than to have to just stand there spamming Cure - Cure - Cure - Cure - Cure - Cure - Cure - Cure. So, the overall effect was to combine making it more boring for the healer (nothing but Cure spam) with making it slower to complete (fewer players dealing damage).

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This. It's really exciting because you're doing two jobs with the same character at the same time, instead of just DPSing or just healing. Not to mention that you're paying attention to several factors at the same time. it keeps you really busy and it's hella fun.

Dps when you can and heal when you need to. I can safely safe healing in a dungeon is boring and if you can do both why not? As long as we don't die who cares. As long as we are in a praty you are my comrades and I'll fight by your side to the bitter end!

Sadly you encountered an idiot(s). I main bard and first thing I do is sing Foes Req even if there aren't any caster dps so the WHM or SCH can dps.
Also, holy is a great defensive skill as its a huge damage, huge AOE stun. Even when I play as a tank I'd rather the WHM get holys in there, especially right after a mass pull for the stun. I'm actually stunned when the WHM does not holy. That actually causes near wipes or wipes.

I can only imagine that people who think healers shouldn't dps either haven't played or played and skip the dialogue of the conjurer class quests :(

I ALWAYS dps as a WHM in dungeon runs. Never had any complaints for it. Have gotten a few compliments though.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

They just said "you should only heal because your role is healer if you wanna dps you should roll dps"

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http://i.imgur.com/w7UlX6z.gif

I was in a Qarn HM run earlier and had a SCH doing more dps than the DRG LOL. He was in Cleric Stance though ;)
I just had to be in full VIT/parry gear and manage cooldowns appropriately but afterwards, the damage done by that SCH was worth it.
Much better than going in STR accessories and/or removing Defiance to add 50 more dps as WAR.

Tl ; dr Healers should dps if the party doesn't die, that helps cleaning the dungeon faster. No reason to have an afking healer. That bard you encounter was a total moron :p

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Originally Posted by Malzian

My only gripe as a tank when a WHM is spamming Holy... is when they don't heal at all and tell me that I should constantly be popping CDs so they can just AoE all the time. If you can differentiate between when it's time to DPS and when it's time to heal, that's fine, but it's just as annoying to make me do all the work to keep myself alive just so a healer can kill the mobs.

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Your point on not healing at all stands but you should be using your cooldowns to reduce damage (and moving out of aoes if possible). If someone called you out on not doing it, good for them. If you are consciously reducing the efficiency of your run... well my sympathy to your DF group. It's not like using damage reduction or healing increase cooldowns lowers your threat or is difficult to do...

There's a common name for bards like that in MMO's - Huntard.

Healer dps can help clear the dungeons almost twice as fast. Anyone who rejects that opportunity should just simply uninstall the game. OP's story reminds me of a encounter I had with another silly premade in DF. It was a tank and two BLMs. I told the tank to do a large pull. He was really bad with keeping up threat, but I healed through it anyway. But then I noticed it was taking forever to clear the pull because the two BLMs were doing single target dps on a dozen enemies.... I was like what the heck, where's your aoe? Their response "bah bah don't tell us what to do". Riiiight, left the party afterwards. You don't negotiate with scrubs.

WHM holy is an aid to heals, dat AE stun cuts down incoming damage on the tank.

Wnen I run expert on my alt SCH, if I stood around doing nothing between heals, I get bored :P Adlo+eye 4 an eye on tank for big pulls, Clerics, fast cast shadowflare, pet on rouse to cover heals while I dot n bane, switch Clerics on an off to adlo tank and back to pewpew ruin spam XD

And TBH, wasnt just the BRD that was a turnip (albeit was most vocal one) someone else had to click yes to kick you out.

But never had anyone say a thing about me DPSing as well as healing in dungeons. Made he tank sweat a couple of times getting all dots up, but thats our job too! Makes em appreciate us more as healer when we pull em back from brink of death :P

You should a shot back, you should only play Ballads then!

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Honestly, they probably had a friend/FC mate waiting to take their place and were looking for an excuse to kick. Otherwise, I can't fathom why someone would be so stupid as to turn down extra DPS from the healer.

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Never underestimate stupidity ^_^

When I was Nexus light farming, running Mog HM in DF, 2nd phase killed, WHM, BLM, PLD, Archer then nuked boss down, one player went off saying it was the worst group ever! Because we didn't follow Mr Happys guide to the letter (lol) and cleared it with zero deaths very fast. Yet it still went on a tantrum XD t'was funny.

Or players selecting a language they dont understand for DF coil then getting all stroppy because no-one can tell em what to do in their language.

As I said, never underestimate stupidity with people. XD

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

Your point on not healing at all stands but you should be using your cooldowns to reduce damage (and moving out of aoes if possible). If someone called you out on not doing it, good for them. If you are consciously reducing the efficiency of your run... well my sympathy to your DF group. It's not like using damage reduction or healing increase cooldowns lowers your threat or is difficult to do...

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When tanking I'll pop Sentinel to round em up then when stun immunity kicks in, pop Hallowed to reduce pressure on the healer. Sometimes throw a cover on em in case they grab aggro.

Good thing of playing all 3 roles, tank, healer, DPS gives you empathy and good understanding of how to make things a lot smoother in the run. eg, good use of CDs, not spinning the mobs like a hyperactive kid on a spinning wheel when theres melee in the party.^_^

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Originally Posted by BadRNG

Don't stop dpsing.

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Hold onto that feeling!

Mog light! Beast Triiiiiiibe

It's funny hearing healers here say they get bitched at for not DPSing because I never seem to get those kinds of people. I DPS when and IF I can, otherwise I just stick to healing and no one seems to mind. Where are those people?


Just like how tanks can decide whether the run is a speed run or not, healers also can decide whether they should DPS or stick to healing. Dungeons are so easy that you're not going to lose out if three people are DPSing instead of all four. If a healer wants to DPS and can pull it off, let them. If they aren't good at the stance dance, let them stick to healing. No one should be pressured into doing something they don't want to do or aren't capable of doing. We already have many tanks complaining about how they get bitched at if they go too fast or too slow and some tanks have quit tanking because of it. Let's not have healers go the same route or we're all going to suffer even longer queues.

Speaking as a Healer from FFXI and FFXIV, I cast healing spells, buffs etc 99.9% of the time, because that's my damn job. White Mage is a healer first and foremost. In other FF titles, a WHM was there to keep the party alive through the battle. Now, while XI (Where if you as a WHM decided to DPS, you'd be kicked from the party/alliance faster than Pandemonium Warden swatting you to the ground) and XIV are MMO's, that doesn't mean that they should be out spamming DPS spells non stop. All that does is generate massive hate, which the Tank may or may not be able to pull the mob off of you (regardless of how 'good' the tank is).

Now, having said that... against trash mobs in a dungeon, casting the odd DPS spell on SUFFICIENTLY WEAKENED ENEMIES NEAR DEATH to finish them off and allow the others to move on to other targets, Hey... I've got no problem with that. DPS against a boss, that's just asking for trouble... Why? Because you end up using valuable MP which should be used to keep your party alive. But for those who think WHM is a DPS (which by the majority of the posts in this thread DO think that)... sorry, take off the rose tinted pince-nez and wake up. You are a HEALER. You're first and primary role is to HEAL AND KEEP THE PARTY ALIVE. Everything else is secondary.

Flame me if you want... but I will continue to play the same way that served me well in XI and other MMO's here as a Healer.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

But for those who think WHM is a DPS (which by the majority of the posts in this thread DO think that)... sorry, take off the rose tinted pince-nez and wake up. You are a HEALER. You're first and primary role is to HEAL AND KEEP THE PARTY ALIVE. Everything else is secondary.

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The posters don't think they're DPS. They're using their toolkit to supplement the DPS of their group during times of light on coming damage. There's a distinct difference between thinking "RWAR, I'M A DAMN DPS!" and "So, I have an opening to DPS at these junctures of the fight because my fairy/Regen can handle the damage for now"

That's what people are advocating (mostly, there are some idiots who do think "RWAR, I'M A DPS" healer, but everyone else knows they're silly people)

@Arielyanna, I disagree, if you know the boss mechanic, trash pulls. You basically know how much mana you will need to keep the party alive. I can manage my MP efficiently while Holy spam and dps + healing. Holy spam helps large pulls stun them for the tank, by experiences. It's actually make the party easier to clear to boss.

one of the best pbaoes in the game wasn't given to healer just so they can solo.

My only question after reading the first two pages of this thread is why are there so many pages? This seems like an open and shut case to me. Healers doing some DPS as well? Awesome. Wish more healers played like that.

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Originally Posted by Clarkamite

why are there so many pages?

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3? That's not all that many really.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

3? That's not all that many really.

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I have 12. Maybe you have more posts per page than me. Either way that's a lot of posts.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

asd

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It's all good, your perspective is awesome. However, no one here said that healers are DPS, they say that you can DPS and heal at the same time. It's like you're selective reading other people's comment just to unleash your fury about this subject, which seems to be sensitve for both Enkidoh and you? Oh, uh... did you play other FF titles besides XI and XIV? Because... Holy is included in the spell-list of a WHM for a reason. And remember, this is not XI. A healer that DPS, is always welcome, as long as he knows how to manage that. If you can be that "exceptional" and manage two roles at the same time, commendation, a big hug and I'll encourage you to keep doing it. If you don't, okay, you're just the healer. You did your job right. Well done. You only made my run a bit slower.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

All that does is generate massive hate, which the Tank may or may not be able to pull the mob off of you (regardless of how 'good' the tank is).

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I have a harder time pulling mobs off of an over-healing WHM than a dps'ing one, honestly.

Your heals generate WAY more hate than your attack spells ever could.

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But for those who think WHM is a DPS (which by the majority of the posts in this thread DO think that)... sorry, take off the rose tinted pince-nez and wake up. You are a HEALER. You're first and primary role is to HEAL AND KEEP THE PARTY ALIVE. Everything else is secondary.

Flame me if you want... but I will continue to play the same way that served me well in XI and other MMO's here as a Healer.

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Pretty sure we know WHM (and SCH for that matter) are healers. Nobody here that I've seen actually goes as far as to think that they're DPS. If you don't want to cast attack spells, that's up to you. As a SCH, I enjoy balancing DPS skills with healing skills as I'm permitted to do by the situation. If anything, it's easier to dps a boss than it is a huge trash pull because there's less constant demand for my healing skills with only one thing hitting the tank as opposed to 15+ things hitting them. As a tank, let me just say that I love it when a healer can both keep me alive and throw some hurt on a huge pull. It's amazing. It helps everything go so much faster. WHM/SCH that just stand there and heal in four man content are pretty forgettable overall and don't usually earn commendations from me unless they're newer players. Raids are an entirely different animal, of course. :3

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

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You're certainly entitled to play that way and don't deserve to be flamed. Conversely, don't flame healers who are capable of healing everyone comfortably AND delivering strong DPS as well.

(Not saying you are, just tit for tat as it were)

hey if im not dead by the end of the fight by all means go to town on mobs.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

Speaking as a Healer from FFXI and FFXIV, I cast healing spells, buffs etc 99.9% of the time.

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How do I put this nicely...

Well you're not wrong.

Healers do need to heal.

But they can also do some slight DPS.

If you can efficiently do both...yay! If not, nobody will hopefully boot you for it.

-Tari