iirc, people wanted to fix the MW rather than add an AH. and tbh, its fixed. i havent heard one instance of someone wanting something and not being able to get it if its available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seif
some people, like me, would rather walk into a room filled with zombies then stare at a wall all day (AH). and even if they did add an AH, people will complain about how slowly it loads the items and how easily it can be for other people to undercut ur items, running back and forth to ur moghouse to grab ur items u couldn't sell and constantly putting up the items cause its being undercutted so much; zoning in and out of your moghouse just to get to ur mailbox. oh wait, wrong game, you get the picture.
AH info lost in the sauce?
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08-16-2011, 04:20 PMGabbaGabba
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08-16-2011, 04:31 PMyukikaze_yanagi
Btw, remember AH fall under "We need to fix the server-side issues first", like delivery and mail. No fix, no AH. Deal with it
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08-16-2011, 05:49 PMneizero
This has been in the game from day zero
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2-39-09-58.jpg
clearly their intention is to add AH at some point. -
08-16-2011, 06:01 PMNixiusWhat does this mean? Sorry if I am being dense. How can someone not be able to get something if it is available =D?Quote:
Originally Posted by GabbaGabba
People in general though need to stop being so pedantic with the naming of things, we all know what is meant by an auction house. Also SE can't realistically come along and get the wrong idea, because SE made FFXI which has an Auction House with no actual bidding.
I am all for an 'Auction House' FFXI style system, as suggested it could run separately from the market wards and turn the MW into 'Rolanberry bazaars' instead for people looking for a bargain/avoid heavy tax etc.
If they go down the route of MarketWards only then they need to be improved, faster, less menus and areas, buy from menu, some kind of history.
/endTwoCents -
08-16-2011, 06:46 PMSeifQuote:
Originally Posted by Nixius
I agree MW is only 2 steps away from being an AH anyway.
People think it's completely turning the system upside down. The server side problems are pretty much unrepairable because nowhere in the game is the engine able to display that number of other player characters on screen at once.
Even when the wards don't crash you'll still be able to see only a handful of the retainers currently in the wards until you take a step to load another set of retainers.
tl;dr: AH is just a name people use for the functionality to view price histories and buy from the menu. It's not something completely different that would take months of dev-time. -
08-16-2011, 07:31 PMtwinkles
I would be fine with keeping "wards" if...
1. Allow players to see all items of a certain type, not just the 20 cheapest. Many times there are more than 20 items of "thousand needles" for example, i personally want to be able to see all those items.
2. Display the quality of an item. Especially since we cannot see past the 20 cheapest items, finding HQ gear becomes a problem.
3. Link all the city wards together, or at least show us what the other cities are selling.
I agree with the fact that what most people are requesting is not a true AH, most people are thinking of the WOW style AH. A wow style AH for those not familiar with the game was very convenient, buy outs were pretty much the norm, and all cities were linked.
If the above three points were solved i would be fine with the annoyance of having to actually run from ward to ward. But keep in mind it is an annoyance, and do we really need more unnecessary UI hoop jumping...
Would you like to publish this post y/n... animating publish.... communicating with forum server..... forum topic is too far below you... -
08-17-2011, 04:01 AMDavorokI find it amusing that many peeps say "...no FFXI style AH...". You mean the one where you set your selling price and if someone payed that price they got the item? There never was any bidding other than you could "offer" less than the price history and occasionally get the item for a cheaper price, but only because someone "listed" it at that price. Then the lower priced item would show up in the history.Quote:
=Nixius;294633People in general though need to stop being so pedantic with the naming of things, we all know what is meant by an auction house. Also SE can't realistically come along and get the wrong idea, because SE made FFXI which has an Auction House with no actual bidding.
I've never understood why some think FFXI's AH was so bad. My suspicion has always been that it is peeps that don't like their prices getting undercut, but that's just too bad because that is how free economies work...competition + supply & demand. Besides with the MW all you have to do is "search" the item you want to sell to see the prices and then just sell it for less.
Anyway, sorry for the derail cuz I am fine with the Market Wards as long as they dump the retainers and just treat each ward as an FFXI Style AH/Market (meaning just click on one of the counters inside the wards and you get a list of available items...simple and no crashing due to overcrowding.
Let people use their retainers like an open world bazaar at Hamlets (would add a little life to those Dead Zones). -
08-17-2011, 04:04 AMCairdeasFFXI's Auction House uses a system called a "Blind Auction" The price for the item is set before hand and users BID on it until they hit the Price set. If they can't find that price on their own they might over shoot the price to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixius
Most of us don't want that again. It was time consuming and resulted in major RMT manipulation.
Because 5 People could completely ruin the Economy for a specific item.Quote:
I've never understood why some think FFXI's AH was so bad.
I'll give you an example.
Leaping Boots were a heavily sought after item. They were useful from level 7 up till about level 60 sometimes higher for some Thieves.
Because of its long usage range its price fluctated on its own based on Supply and Demand.
Until RMT's joined the fray. Suddenly all the stock on the AH would get bought up at its lowest possible price (Lets say 200k because thats kinda what I remember it being.)
You would see the stock of these boots just disappear for a month all of them being instantly bought for about 200k. Suddenly you'll see the stock shoot up to 7 or 8 in Inventory after having been completely dry for weeks. But if you tried to buy them you wouldn't get them for 200k. And if you kept your eye on the price history suddenly the person Selling it would be selling it to someone else for about 800k. But the Seller would always be the same. Then... Suddenly the Seller would change... To one of the other original buyers.... So suddenly the sellers repeating at the same price of 800k.
So now the Price LOOKS like its 800k because the last 10 sells are for that high, When the average price was really 200k. They were doing this for YEARS and no one realized it until FFXIAH.com came around and kept logs of the transactions longer then 10 sells. -
08-17-2011, 04:55 AMChain
Whenever I invite some friends to play, I hate to even start to explain the MW system. I feel foolish trying to justify it, after I told them it was an awesome game. Most of them coming from other games with polished AH etc. How on earth do you expect someone to come to this game and settle for second best?
The only way it'll ever be right is if they combine the search and teleport to all 3 city states along with full history on all items. (this includes items that people are not currently selling).
What happens when and if (this is a huge IF) PS3 release takes off and increases the server population 1/3+? The MWs are already crammed full. It was a fun concept on paper, in reality it's not working.
Also, please make putting items in your bazaar for max gil just to keep your retainer spot in contested wards a bannable offense. -
08-17-2011, 05:01 AMCairdeasQuote:
Originally Posted by Chain
listed histories for prices can be heavily abused by RMT.
If they have any form of history it shouldn't list individual transactions at all. Instead it should be an average of the last... 20 sells, Ignoring changes in price that exceed between 15-30%.
So lets say an Item sells for 40-60k Steadily for 18 Times, Making the Average around 50K. If someone sells one for 100K or 10k That change wont reflect in the history, and prevent RMT's from being able to manipulate the price quickly. -
08-17-2011, 06:16 AMGhostInfinityThat reminds me of pre release/ beta when 9 out 10 people were asking where they could find the AH. We were all like "Don't be so stupid, how can an MMO not have an AH, this is just beta, they'll have one at release" etcQuote:
Originally Posted by neizero
(on a side note it was kinda like seeing an airship fly over outside Ul'Dah, running into the city and searching high and low for the port!) -
08-17-2011, 07:03 AMZoltan
Cairdeas: All the RMTs would have to do is complete 20 transactions to invalidate your method.
Certainly you're not arguing that having no history is better than having history of transactions?
One of the worst things in FFXI was seeing the same bot craft holy water, sole sushi or marron glace day after day and never leave town. The GMs had no power to ban those obvious RMTs. I'd like to see GM's have the authority to instantly suspend RMTs.
Honestly, I'd like to restrict who could place items for sale to people who actually play the game and not bots or mules who only craft and sell stuff. I would recommend restricting sellers to having a level 30+ job and having field experience every 7 days to include combat earned XP, DoH / DoL earned XP and have completed 1 quest and 5 leves since last placing an item for sale.
The DEVs could program the market so that the sale of any item lower than the actual cost of production would be prevented. They could easily take a base calculation off of the median npc items or true median price of items sold and add a 25% minimum margin cost over actual production costs for the price floor. People always seem to want to buy items for the cost of materials and fail to recognize the costs crafters incur just levelling their DoH skill high enough to create the item.
The market must indicate whether the item is HQ+ and also not have a delay in displaying the actual items available for sale.
There must be some form of price tracking, even for items that are unavailable, or the market can be unfairly manipulated.
Finally, I would also like to see the end of people using their bazaars for storage by pricing items at extreme prices, but that will never happen. -
08-17-2011, 07:13 AMShyd
Thread title reminds me of a Ween song.
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08-17-2011, 07:17 AMZoltanMust be: "Help me scrape the mucus off my brain" or "Pork roll and egg cheese" ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyd
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08-17-2011, 07:54 AMChain
Spare me the RMT crap, making the community suffer through a screwed up and clunky mess of a system because they can't get their act together to control RMT is not the answer to any of this.
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08-17-2011, 10:51 AMConcept
couldn't they just put a retainer summoning bell in front of wards? for lazy ppl like me? :p Would be quick and helpful I'd think
Edit: I really just want to see a mail box system put in! please and thank you! :) -
08-17-2011, 10:59 AMTheVedis
is it just me or are 90% of the arguements against the wards cuz you dont wanna spend 30 seconds running in to the retainer you chose to get something from?
also clunky? really chain? an AH or any other way of buying stuff would have same ui, you still gotta find the item to buy it and do you really think they are gonna change how the menus are to find the item now is?
you are arguing that you dont like the system in general, not that you dont like the wards if thats the case -
08-17-2011, 11:10 AMpolyhedral
It takes longer than 30 seconds to find an item, run in the correct ward, wait for the retainers to load, buy the item, then return back to the item search menu to find something else you need.
It's absolutely ridiculous, and I doubt I ever fall in love with the MW compared to what I've had in many other games, ffxi included.
Don't rationalize a bad system. Just stop it. You are not helping US. -
08-17-2011, 11:12 AMTheVedisthe time spent finding the item is irrelevantQuote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
in an AH system if it were added you would STILL have to find the item -
08-17-2011, 11:15 AMpolyhedral
You are the one who stated 30 seconds, when you know damn well it takes far longer than that.
No AH I ever used required me to walk somewhere to find the item or buy it. -
08-17-2011, 11:17 AMTheVedisif you cant find the npc in the ward, you didnt use the item search, end of storyQuote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
it takes all of 30 seconds to run to the npc you need after choosing where you wanna go
some of you are being really dramatic about your times on how long it takes to do things, at worst itl take a minute to buy your item, OMG A FRIGGIN MINUTE! its the end of the world! SE needs to code it so we dont spend that minute! -
08-17-2011, 11:21 AMpolyhedral
I'm just tired of people like yourself minimizing other people's opinions on this forums, all because you do not find the opinions 100% flattering.
This system sucks. And no, it takes over 30 seconds for retainers to load whenever I use them, everyday.
Quit minimizing it. Just stop it. -
08-17-2011, 11:22 AMTheVedisany retainer that has been chosen in the search functionQuote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
or who belongs to you, AUTO LOADS FIRST in the ward
so saying it takes time to load it is utter BS
the ward instance loading is the entirety of the load time youll experience -
08-17-2011, 11:25 AMpolyhedralMy friend, you are the one who apparently hasn't been playing this game on a populated server lately...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
They do not always show up before other retainers. To say otherwise, tells me you more than likely are LYING, or haven't been playing it yourself or using the system lately.
You my friend, are the one full of bs. -
08-17-2011, 11:27 AMTheVedisso, how many mods are you using that are causing things to not load correctly then?Quote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
cuz thats the only way this can be happening
all the chosen retainers will preload with the instance, even if they are all the way at the other end of it(granted you wont see them til your closer) but they do pre load too
your the one not playing this game if you think otherwise -
08-17-2011, 11:29 AMpolyhedral
What mods? This isn't the source engine ffs.
SE defense force minimizing other peoples' opinions and preventing good change since Sept. 2010... -
08-17-2011, 11:30 AMTheVedissome people are using dat mods for the game and it causes the wards to not load correctlyQuote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
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08-17-2011, 12:14 PMtwinkles
This goes so far beyond retainer load times. It is more an issue of basic functionality or the lack there of.
Scenario- Player decides they want to HQ some lumber.
1. Search for logs, most likely will be searching for HQ logs to boost their starting values.
2. Sift through every listed ward because 99% of time retainers that sell the logs are scattered between multiple wards.
3. Spends about 1-2 mins per ward jump because that's about how long each ward takes to enter plus the travel time to each actual retainer.
4. Hopefully the player physically wrote down all the ward locations or their back to hit the search tool again just to refresh their memory on the locations of various xyz log sellers..
5. Player has searched through all retainers selling logs...up to the 20 cheapest being sold. Hopefully there are under 20 sales going on, or the player must now run through every ward spying for "red stars"
This scenario is something i go through all the time. Showing the quality would solve this completely. A step further would be showing players what is being sold on ward in other cities. I'm not asking SE to move mountains, but some well thought out functionality is something we should strive for. -
08-17-2011, 12:23 PMTheVedis
@twinkles
adding the quality would be a MAJOR step for solving the last of the main complaints people have about the wards
thats what most of us still want -
08-17-2011, 01:12 PMNuruJust these improvements alone should halt the demands for a duplicate system.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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08-17-2011, 01:56 PMChain
I love polyhedral <3
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08-17-2011, 01:58 PMtwinkles
I think we shouldn't discount the lack of full quantity search visibility either. It may be a pretty minor thing now to not be able to see more than 20 items, but imagine once the game really picks up and we have a huge influx of players. I could see a large upturn in ward use. The problem of limiting search visibility to the 20 cheapest items of "xyz" will only get worse with time.
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08-17-2011, 04:50 PMGabbaGabbaregardless of using the AH or MW, the search list will always be truncated. imagine thousand of players trying to search for items and the amount of stress load it does to the servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkles
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08-17-2011, 04:55 PMGabbaGabbaAH still requires u to walk to a mailbox or zone into ur MH and go into ur mailbox to retrieve the item. buying an item from MW instantly goes into ur inv, unless ur bags are fullQuote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
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08-17-2011, 04:57 PMAerycat
I feel a lot of ppl are finding faults and flaws of the current ward system, but really, most of the problems can be resolved by :-
- Expanding list of search results.
- Making the search list accessible ANYWHERE within Ward area ( previous searches are cached ).
- Enhance item listing during search ( either a fixed list of items including better distinction between HQ and NQs )
---- Seriously, to the person complaining about loading Market ward retainers. What makes you so sure your computer can handle loading "200 characters standing in front of Auction House" any better ?? Doesn't make sense does it ? Back in Aht Urghan AH FFXI, it's so clogged up I find it hard to even scroll through the items on AH.
A lot of things can be enhanced, without the need to put in another system.
I personally am not a fan of "buying everything on the same spot" :-
- Encourages usage of macros to keep bidding on certain items (bots). A simple key macro like "F8 > Enter > Downx10 > Enter > Downx8 > Enter > Input 1000 > Enter > Up > Enter" Can ensure you buy that item as as soon as it's up.
- Same as mentioned above, too clogged up with all the ppl standing in front of AH either botting or real players
So why not embrace the new system and ask for further enhancements instead of keep going back to Auction House ? Is being able to buy everything on the spot means sooo much ? or is it being able to bot is something you can't live without ? -
08-17-2011, 07:04 PMDrakeno , when you buy from FFXI AH the item goes into ur inv .Quote:
Originally Posted by GabbaGabba
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08-17-2011, 10:37 PMSagageminiWrong. Item goes directly to your inv.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabbaGabba
But yeah, the gil from items you sold go to your delivery box.
I don't think we are getting an AH, but they should at least make the wards more casual friendly. -
08-17-2011, 10:39 PMRoaran
I believe they have already released quite a bit of info on this....
I remember them having to fix the server issues first, and then they would set it up so retainers could actually buy/sell from each other without any aid from the player. -
08-17-2011, 11:02 PMHolland
Things that I read on the last four pages are outdated complaints that have already been fixed.
The selected retainer loads at the same time as the zone before every other retainer, only thing you need to do is turn your camera around you when you pop, if you dont see it immediately is because is the other end of the ward.
Things that need to be added or enhanced:
~ Search for HQ items
~ Be able to see the price listing of items while you set the prices on your retainer, so you dont need to run back and forth and either remember the prices you saw for every item you intend to sell or write them down so you dont forget, which is really inconvenient.
Honestly, those two are the ones that bug me the most. I dont mind going into different wards to buy something, it takes me about the same time it took me to purchase items from XI's AH. I have no idea how they plan to solve the issue with Retainers in wards when, lets say, one million players join, but I am sure they have plans for this, also, we have all the other cities market wards unused. -
08-17-2011, 11:51 PMSeifThis bickering is totally uncalled for. Yoshida promised an AH the poll states that players want it. No further discussion needed. SE just needs to walk the walk instead of giving empty promises.Quote:
Originally Posted by polyhedral
When 20 guys asked for a sexy outfit they got bikinis within weeks. SE says they're prioritizing important gameplay elements first but after the battle system I can't think of anything more harmful to this game than the lack of an AH and thus the lack of working economy.
It affects every aspect of the game. Farming, crafting, questing, leve choises grind areas everything.