Solo players can't get proper credit for hunts

The main issue I'm having with getting full credit on rank B's solo is the hunt shells and their tendancy to reset mobs until the goon squad shows up.

It's a pretty terrible habit that these shells have gotten into. It basically screws solo players and small groups who were already in the zone out of full points, so the members of the hunt shell can teleport in from the other side of Eorzea and leech off the group.

The chances of getting an invite if you're a solo player? Next to Zero. Hunt shells of Tonberry, I see most of you as a rolling scourge across the landscape, until some of you learn some manners.

And yeah, my idea for making things slightly better?

The HP of rank B mobs should not be allowed to be reset.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

The main issue I'm having with getting full credit on rank B's solo is the hunt shells and their tendency to reset mobs until the goon squad shows up.

It's a pretty terrible habit that these shells have gotten into. It basically screws solo players and small groups who were already in the zone out of full points, so the members of the hunt shell can teleport in from the other side of Eorzea and leech off the group.

The chances of getting an invite if you're a solo player? Next to Zero. Hunt shells of Tonberry, I see most of you as a rolling scourge across the landscape, until some of you learn some manners.

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I don't even get what you mean. People don't receive invites to Hunt LS because they are all FULL. I believe that there are 1 or 2 new LS being started recently on top of the already existing ones, but I am not sure of their status. One of them is that FC-less player "Old Man" (that guys who spams shouts on DON'T ATTACK blah blah), I think he's the LS starter.

And LOL at your comment about everyone in hunt LS. I am sure that they are some bad eggs around. But your blanket insult to all of them places you on the same level. Rank Bs aren't that easy to reset anyways, they always get zerged and ninja'd by small groups. But I will reset a mark if I have to. FC/LS and my comrades first, I always take into account of the greater good of more people.

Last night I pulled a reset on an A and one of my FC mate were screwed because she forgot about Hellsclaw's reflect and died. But that also meant that a lot more groups will be able to get full credit due to my reset. TBH I don't really care about Bs, solo (if you think you can solo a B) or 1-2 party can go kill them if they want as long as they don't belong to a LS and be a leecher. But if it is an A rank and S rank.. I can't care about complaints from 1 or 2 players who doesn't get into a party (there are PF hunt parties too) or whatever reason - if a reset meant more people that will benefit than disadvantaged I will still do it if my comrades called for it.

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People don't receive invites to Hunt LS because they are all FULL.

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I'm not talking about an invite to a hunt LS, I'm talking about in invite to a party that's sitting the resetting the rank B for minutes on end. It's rude, plain and simple, to do that and not include the solo players who are standing there being screwed.

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And LOL at your comment about everyone in hunt LS. I am sure that they are some bad eggs around. But your blanket insult to all of them places you on the same level. Rank Bs aren't that easy to reset anyways, they always get zerged and ninja'd by small groups. But I will reset a mark if I have to. FC/LS and my comrades first, I always take into account of the greater good of more people.

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Well if shells don't want to appear as if they're a giant douche running around the map, they need to stop their members acting like that, plain and simple. Unfortunately the actions of the minority are the most visible, and they reflect poorly upon the shells in general.

Also, you mentioned the greater "good of the people" and all your "comrades". Sounds an awful lot like communism.

This just in: playing alone in a massive MULTIPLAYER online game puts you at a severe disadvantage

next up: turn 9 "impossible" to solo

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This just in: playing alone in a massive MULTIPLAYER online game puts you at a severe disadvantage

next up: turn 9 "impossible" to solo

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Except part of this content was actually meant to be solo'd. But it's next to impossible to get any fulfillment out of it solo at the moment.

if anyone actually thought it was "meant" to be solo'd, whether it be players or SE, they are delusional

hunting LSes and such aside, if people find something, they're probably going to share it with their friends, and there's no way A or S marks can be taken on by a single player

if you want to "solo" hunts, your only options are the dailies or to hope you can find and kill a B mark before anyone else does.

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if anyone actually thought it was "meant" to be solo'd, whether it be players or SE, they are delusional

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Maybe it's the fact the B ranks are able to be killed solo that gave people that impression? And the fact that they were noted as "intended to be solo'd" in the patch notes and all the hunt information?

It'll be alright once the hype of the hunt dies down. Just view it as any new content: everyone will be want to burn through it to get their hands on the items as fast as they can.

Individually, you need to ask yourself: do I want the shiny stuff now, or can I wait a few weeks until it becomes more accessible/manageable.

I can't fight Hunts anymore do to a group of 150+ people controlling them and screwing over anyone else who isn't with them. What they are doing is when they see a Hunt already in combat by a small group who happen to find it 1st, they take aggro somehow (can't seem to take it back from them) and keep resetting it till their 150+ show up causing that small group to lose their rewards.

Now when I was alone and attacked 4 Hunts, 20+ people decided to message my FC leader rude tells trying to causing problems for my FC. This needs to stop because now it has gotten way out of hand now, can't hunt without some jerks whispering you rude remarks or trying to cause problems

Well I still can do hunts, but if I do they are just probably going to bitch at my FC and cause more problems...

There is nothing stopping you from getting full credit if someone resets a mob, you just keep on hitting it. If a full group is hitting even a B rank from the moment its pulled you will always get max credit, all resetting does is buy time for more people to share and until I see concrete evidence that GMs will punish for this I see no reason to not do it.

If you want to go all law of the jungle with no cooperation, and believe its fair for people to just do their own thing and whatever they want then there's no reason why other players can't also do everything in their power to make sure they and their group gets credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you give no consideration to other groups then expect no consideration back.

You could also just advocate this to not be open world. Another example of wanting to have the best of both worlds, this is what open world means without any sort of claim or pop system.

While I read many a post in the thread, one thing stands out. We asked for more open world content because we wanted things we could do SOLO. While I like the way hunts are intended to work, the mass hoards currently doing them, whether cooperatively or not, mean that the solo person doesnt get much of a reward. I realize that joining a party is a way to ensure you get the full rewards, but I believe it goes against why we wanted this kind of content in the first place.

This being said, I'll continue to party up with people but I do think SE should adjust it so that those who are solo can still get a decent reward as well. (Not everyone can form a party by the time an A rank is defeated - atleast not on my server ^^; )

Kind of hard for a group of 4 or a solo player to get full credit when someone comes by to reset it for the 100+ people otw, because the rendering issues happens and the credit you would've gotten is now gone.

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Kind of hard for a group of 4 or a solo player to get full credit when someone comes by to reset it for the 100+ people otw, because the rendering issues happens and the credit you would've gotten is now gone.

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Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

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Already started to happen with me... lol, even got people saying I'm spying on them. Really?? I mean theres a spreadsheet, 100+ people zerging around, and happens to be 2 people who keep shouting the same phrase whenever a hunt dies... so its not hard to know where to go.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

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thats just too bad for them. not like you need any friends in this game. either jump on it or get screwed out of your 5 secs. what do you expect from a easy mode game everyone wanted this now just accept it.
people said they dont have time to play a mmo now they give you zergs and you guys hate it.

Most people aren't asking to literally 'solo' hunts. I think there is a big misconception there. They are fully aware that most Marks require others to slay. They are however pointing out the disparity between teaming up with a couple others who are in the area vs. the LS's. The issue is okay, but really? How many people was this content intended for (100's of people to kill a bunny? really?) and do 'big' groups rights trump the rights of others....even if they didn't make the initial claim? That said, there are marks that CAN be soloed. The issue however is not should/can it be soloed. The issue is: Hunt LS's vs. those not in them. A large groups rights over a smaller groups rights.

I'll give 3 examples that happened to me personally this evening. However, before I do so, a couple things you should know.

1. I am not in a Hunt LS. Nor am I interested in being in one (I have had offers, it's simply not something I desire).
2. I lead a FC. Some members are in a Hunt LS. (on my server 'Alliance') Some are not.
3. I currently have 78 Seals...most from daily mob kills (I skip the FATE mobs alot because 'ain't nobody got time for that') Point: this obviously isn't a high priority in my in-game life right now, nor am I personally out their actively ninja'ing anything.

So early this evening, I was out gathering on btn, when I saw a mammet hat in the distance and thought 'huh....that's odd...wait! that's a mark I think' And changed to whm, got my chocobo out, and in FC chat did <t>. A member was like you can kill it, it's a B. So I engaged. NOT A SINGLE SOUL WAS AROUND. Furthermore, as I am not in a hunt LS/alliance etc...I owe them no favors. Heck I don't even know how to contact them if I wanted to. So I don't have to wait. I found it on my own, was the only one nearby, and it was something me and birdy could handle. I told FC mates, because I figured some might want a chance at it. No biggie. So for the next 2-3 minutes me and birdy were doing great soloing, having fun. A FC mate showed up, now we're duoing...still good fun. Then all of a sudden, 100's of people descend...more people that my screen can probably even see, and they zerg it to death (at least they didn't reset it on me). Afterwards, they don't send mean tells but they do mean emotes at me and we all move on. I asked one of my FC members who's a leader in the 'alliance' (hunt LS's on my server) hey, did you tell them about that mob? and he's like yeah...sorry. I was like, dude, it's a B rank....you really don't need to bring 100's of people to a B rank. I wasn't upset but it just seemed like overkill...AND it also seemed a little unfair as well, they don't share LS hunt location information in our FC chat...so it seemed a little backhanded to share FC intel in their LS. Still, nothing to get panties in a bind about and I got 5 seals for this.

A couple minutes later, I happened to be in a different zone (was doing my daily map that I had just gathered via said previous BTN nodes), when I see a shout about another B rank being up. I figured /meh why not. So i rode over. Again, 100's of people are showing up....for a bunny. I wait for them to pull. I get 1 seal for just me and my bird (again, I was in the area to do a solo map...no reason to be in a party). But no one's nose is bent out of shape b/c everyone followed 'the rules' . The shouter decided to wait and let people zerg it...his call, but he had every right to just pull the thing. I got 1 seal for this.


So skip ahead a couple hours. I get back from being afk and suddenly get flooded with angry tells about one of my FC members NOT in 'the alliance'. Who's 'pulling early'. I'm being told this could get my FC black listed....me personally blacklisted, reported etc. And I'm like 'woah. Is this person in your ls? (No). Are you a leader of said LS's? (No). You do understand people not in your 'alliance' don't actually know your rules right and therefore can't be held to them? (I mean seriously, that would be like me expecting my neighbor's FC to follow any rules my FC has...they don't even have access to our chat let alone rules). You can't 'pull early' You just pull. Once you do, the mob will either kill you or be killed. If you bite off more than you can chew=dead player and other ppl can clean up. If you win, well if they stood there and watched, that's their own fault.

Over 20 different people in over the span of the next 15-20 minutes pm'd me to complain about 'early pulls'
And again, I was not there, I was not in the zone, I am not in 'the alliance' the FC member to my knowledge was not in the alliance. They waited. Saw a bunch of people gathered. They are a tank, no one was pulling they pulled when there were obviously enough folk in the zone to slay said mob. This btw, is NOT soloing. They saw people gathering, and know how the game WILL give people credit if they do enough damage and simply pulled when enough were around fully intending that those also in the area also attacked the mob. It's no different than if you are the first to show up at a FATE. You engage, others show up. People get rewards based on their contributions/group contributions.

Now those in the alliance think 'yeah it's YOUR fault as a FC leader for not making sure people are waiting' But really, that's beyond my control. Meaning, I'm not going to make a rule that basically says 'hey FC members, you can't claim open world mobs unless you're in a Hunt FC...that we have no real affiliation with.' I mean yes, don't be jerks...but pulling a mob isn't being a jerk. If a player, any player sees a mob, and want's to attempt to kill it (whether it's the normal level 12ish turtle outside Uldah many a nooblet level 3 have face-planted against or a rank S) that's the individual players right. If an individual decides to wait for others to claim, that is also their right. But really, once you see a couple 100 people descend on a mob, I think it's fair for someone, anyone to fire a shot.). But I should not have to make my FC members follow made up rules other groups on my server decided upon....rules that also only benefit those in the groups that made said rules and undermine everyone else on the server.

People aren't waiting because they NEED to wait for others to successfully kill it....in very, very few cases would you need more than the average number of random folk that show up for an average random FATE to kill a Mark. ...Nor does it take any skill beyond what your average FATE crew should be able to handle. Furthermore, while the rewards you can buy with seals are nice, the intent behind them wasn't that you could fully upgrade your character in a matter of days simply by spamming these in a mass hoarde. The intent was a fun challenge that for the most part was happened upon... with maybe only the biggest marks requiring some actual /SH or networking. But seriously, an S mark is really no different than Odin...most people will go if they see he's up, and join parties, and work together....but people don't wait to pull him... or blacklist people because they didn't wait for the last of their LS mates to arrive before pulling. When they see enough people around, someone pulls, and all is good.

Look, if you don't want others to pull, then pull. If others pull while you're waiting on your team to arrive, and/or if a solo person pulls more than they can chew, you can let the get eaten. But again, the ONLY way you can pull it...is to be in the location to do so. If people aren't there by the time it's pulled, really, that's their problem. These marks were not designed with the intention that the entire server should descend upon each and everyone every day, every moment they spawn. Nor does any one group have any more 'right' to a mob than anyone else. Seriously, When enough people arrive to kill mark, it should be pulled. It's not like your Hunt LS is waiting for non-members to show up to also get in on the kill....so you're totally okay with being mean to folk who see it first/ pull it first before you all arrive, but see nothing wrong in pulling it yourselves when your team/LS is ready. You see the Double Standard right? Also, just because your LS/FC etc might have a rule like 'don't pull until Bob says so!'....doesn't mean every other person/LS/FC on the server has to follow the 'wait for Bob' rule. Nor did they do anything wrong if they don't wait for Bob.

So again, all this happened in ONE evening of gaming for me.

But anyway, below is the mindset the 'non Hunt LS' people are up against. (commonly referred to as soloists/small groups)

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I don't even get what you mean. People don't receive invites to Hunt LS because they are all FULL. I believe that there are 1 or 2 new LS being started recently on top of the already existing ones, but I am not sure of their status. One of them is that FC-less player "Old Man" (that guys who spams shouts on DON'T ATTACK blah blah), I think he's the LS starter.

And LOL at your comment about everyone in hunt LS. I am sure that they are some bad eggs around. But your blanket insult to all of them places you on the same level. Rank Bs aren't that easy to reset anyways, they always get zerged and ninja'd by small groups. But I will reset a mark if I have to. FC/LS and my comrades first, I always take into account of the greater good of more people.

Last night I pulled a reset on an A and one of my FC mate were screwed because she forgot about Hellsclaw's reflect and died. But that also meant that a lot more groups will be able to get full credit due to my reset. TBH I don't really care about Bs, solo (if you think you can solo a B) or 1-2 party can go kill them if they want as long as they don't belong to a LS and be a leecher. But if it is an A rank and S rank.. I can't care about complaints from 1 or 2 players who doesn't get into a party (there are PF hunt parties too) or whatever reason - if a reset meant more people that will benefit than disadvantaged I will still do it if my comrades called for it.

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1. So not everyone can be in a Hunt LS, because as you say, they are full. This implies there WILL be people who still want to participate in this content, but have to do it in smaller groups/with less manpower/have nothing to gain and only something to lose by waiting for your LS to arrive.
2. Rank B's aren't 'stolen' from your FC by solo players/small groups. They do NOT belong to you. All that happened was this small group saw it, and was like 'we can kill it!' Yay. As they are not in your LS, they owed you no warning, no wait, nothing at all. It's open world content, they saw it first, it is their claim.
3. Resetting IS a jerk move. You only reset it for your own gains to screw out the ones who found and initially claimed it. They were there first. Resetting to buy your friends/LS time isn't a fair or 'good-spirited' way to play.
4. The game already gives credit to players in a group easier than solo players for a kill, you do not need to punish them more. Many 'solo' players aren't upset that they don't get a FULL reward, they are upset that people are resetting mobs off them, NOT inviting them if they see it/sh it. Misleading them to other areas of the map, etc. Solo players and small parties, actually enjoy working with bigger groups and/or might have been in the area doing other activities/waiting on a DF queue what have you, and just don't need nor want to be bullied simply because they are not part of your 'LS' or party...that again, you admit is full and can't accept them even if they wanted in anyway.
5. Hunt LS' don't invite outsiders into their parties even if spots are available and someone asks.
6. Justifying bullying by saying 'well by bullying them, I was able to help x amount more of the people I have an elite status with' is STILL bullying.

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

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While there's been no specific rule or wording from SE, there is most certainly precedence on the matter of resetting. People had similar issues, for different reasons of course, with tanks resetting fate mobs. So now fate mobs cannot be provoked.

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

Again there's no rules and it's a double edged sword, and the only people who can make rules is GMs not hunt LS or forum posters with opinions. I need to see precedence on this particular matter, because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

Edit: if you want to test this it's very easy, just go to a hunt mob when everyone is waiting and use provoke. It will do 0 damage and the mob won't aggro (but many people might start attacking thinking it was, which makes provoke a legit troll). Provoke normally gives you the highest threat it has on someone +1, meaning if you normally use it on a non-aggro mob it will aggro but since it fully resists provoke it doesn't even get that +1.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Solo players can't beat dungeons nor raids on their own. It's crazy!

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But the dungeon will always be there. It won't vanish if you don't get a party together in less than 60 seconds and enter it.


I'm not happy with the hunt system either.
So far, I've seen Naul once out of ~20 times and was able to get 1 hit in (not enough to finish the weekly it seems), and duoed the rank B in Central Shroud.

What I like about the hunts is the idea of spawn conditions.
I think it would be better if they changed A and B rank to actual group content for 4 and 8 players.
You get the information about the area where the NM can be found and a random hint how to spawn it.
Then your group has to figure out how to spawn it and beat the NM.
Make locating and attracting the NM the main activity of hunts, and not waiting and zerging.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

Again there's no rules and it's a double edged sword, and the only people who can make rules is GMs not hunt LS or forum posters with opinions. I need to see precedence on this particular matter, because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

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Yeah they can. I have done it. I've seen others do it. not sure where people get the idea that you can't. Especially when you start a fight and literally 30 seconds later a warrior comes by and instantly takes it away. He doesn't beat on it, he provokes and it runs off to him. Which is why I save my provoke to take it back.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

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It is harassment to reset it so that your group has time to get there, even if it's not meant to hurt someone else, you are purposely diminishing their reward so that your group can benefit, I have talked this over with a couple different GMs. They have to be able to prove that you are resetting it, and not just running out so you can live or something, so it really becomes harassment as soon as something like the word reset shows up in your chat log.

Only a GM gets to decide if it's harassment, I really don't care what you can lawyer up. Proof is needed.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm not talking about an invite to a hunt LS, I'm talking about in invite to a party that's sitting the resetting the rank B for minutes on end. It's rude, plain and simple, to do that and not include the solo players who are standing there being screwed.

Well if shells don't want to appear as if they're a giant douche running around the map, they need to stop their members acting like that, plain and simple. Unfortunately the actions of the minority are the most visible, and they reflect poorly upon the shells in general.

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You understand that I can't control what you do right? If so, what makes you think that it is easy to control everyone on LS? How does LS leaders stay online to cover the game 24/7 and monitor every member's behavior? Unlike FCs which you can tell which chap belongs to which FC and who is the leader which you may want to feedback to, LS does not have this feature where you can lodge complaint to the LS leaders. FYI LS leaders have also been trying to prune out bad players in their LS but they could only do so much.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Also, you mentioned the greater "good of the people" and all your "comrades". Sounds an awful lot like communism.

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Communism? LOL - by standards of Democracy I am on the same side. Because more people wanted a share of the mark and voted for it to reset, and I reset it as voted by the majority. "Communism"/"Democracy" talk on this matter.. IDK, no relevance.

To be fair, SE cannot satisfy everyone. SE knows that, they always try to accommodate. It's true in life and such, there isn't always a perfect solution. And so is resetting the mark if need be, because it satisfy the need of more people.

And for all others who have quoted and replied me, SarcasmMisser have already said what I wanted to:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

There is nothing stopping you from getting full credit if someone resets a mob, you just keep on hitting it. If a full group is hitting even a B rank from the moment its pulled you will always get max credit, all resetting does is buy time for more people to share and until I see concrete evidence that GMs will punish for this I see no reason to not do it.

If you want to go all law of the jungle with no cooperation, and believe its fair for people to just do their own thing and whatever they want then there's no reason why other players can't also do everything in their power to make sure they and their group gets credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you give no consideration to other groups then expect no consideration back.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

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And one last thing about resetting mob: if you are there THAT early or even first to be there, then SarcasmMisser also said something:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

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Maybe instead of complaining, think about how poorly you hold your hate? How could you lose hate to someone who came later like 75% HP left and STILL able to pull aggro from your party's tank WITHOUT provoke?

My WAR is not even ilvl100 yet and I could rip of existing hate with 1-2 Butcher's Block. That says a lot. It's not my fault that a late comer like me could rip off hate from you, watch your own hate and make it impossible to rip and there you can ensure that it is not being pulled and reset. :rolleyes:

IMO, the marks should have extremely low HP, they should decrease the HP but not increase,
as it can prevent resetting, players/parties who attacked first most likely will kill them by 1 hit and got max seals,
it will work like claiming the marks, no one will force anyone to wait as there will be no reason to wait then.

When SE decided to increase marks' HP for those reasons,
I think why not just change the mark to NPC, once pull, it will stay there for n minutes,
an system message with <t> and <pos> will be announced to the whole server,
so everyone can come and talk to it then get the seals, no drama. ^^;

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Originally Posted by ispano

Yeah they can. I have done it. I've seen others do it. not sure where people get the idea that you can't. Especially when you start a fight and literally 30 seconds later a warrior comes by and instantly takes it away. He doesn't beat on it, he provokes and it runs off to him. Which is why I save my provoke to take it back.

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Nope you can't. Your threat is probably close with the other tanks.

I have already done numerous resets and thus I know provoke doesn't work on marks. Like he already said, you can test it out by using a provoke on a mark when the mark is not engaged yet. The mark will not engage you like normal mobs do. The "existing threat +1" does not apply to marks.

People get the idea that provoke doesn't works by actually looking at the mob. They get threat from follow up attacks and don't even see that provoke has fully resisted under it.

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Maybe instead of complaining, think about how poorly you hold your hate? How could you lose hate to someone who came later like 75% HP left and STILL able to pull aggro from your party's tank WITHOUT provoke?

My WAR is not even ilvl100 yet and I could rip of existing hate with 1-2 Butcher's Block. That says a lot. It's not my fault that a late comer like me could rip off hate from you, watch your own hate and make it impossible to rip and there you can ensure that it is being pulled and reset.

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Ooshima, I thought you were better than insulting players to try get your points across. Mistake of judgement there, my bad.

Do you know why I haven't tried to hold hate on one of these while it's being reset? I'll likely get abused by countless vapid idiots and blacklisted by a bunch of people. Or have you not had that experience, or seen it happen yet? Or are you just that ignorant that you don't think it's a problem?

LS owners really do need to take responsibility for the above kind of scenario, especially if it's going to be suggested as something for solo players to maxamise their seals. Either that or LS leaders could not recruit so many random boneheads. However, I don't expect that to change any time soon with shells clamoring to keep membership (and by extension seal acquisition) as high as possible.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Ooshima, I thought you were better than insulting players to try get your points across. Mistake of judgement there, my bad.

Do you know why I haven't tried to hold hate on one of these while it's being reset? I'll likely get abused by countless vapid idiots and blacklisted by a bunch of people. Or have you not had that experience, or seen it happen yet? Or are you just that ignorant that you don't think it's a problem?

LS owners really do need to take responsibility for the above kind of scenario, especially if it's going to be suggested as something for solo players to maxamise their seals. Either that or LS leaders could not recruit so many random boneheads. However, I don't expect that to change any time soon with shells clamoring to keep membership (and by extension seal acquisition) as high as possible.

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How is that an insult. I'm just stating a fact, a fact that players are losing hate when they have much time lead to build an impassible hate. If this has happened, it is a point for the tank to self-review. Whilst tanking is not my main job, at any point where I am the engaging tank on a single target and if I lost it I'd feel embarrassed about it. That's why whole point. It is just embarrassing if I found the mob, engaged it, and 10-20s later another tank came in and pulled it off me. I wouldn't even have the cheek to cry about it that I lost the mob...

TBH I am not particularly sure about Tonberry server either, on the issue of blacklists. Of course I have seen numerous shouts about "blist that player!", but what really happened? Has anyone who actually got blisted step out here and share something? I may actually be ignorant to a degree as I prefer to hunt with my own FC mates and friends. LS are there for me to pick up info and share finds, I'm not actively participating in organization or any such matters.

A lot of those shouts on early pullers are false accusations and proven to be untrue when check against the battle log. Personally I think most of these are just empty threats. Most of them just made lots of initial noise and moved on with their marks hunting. I do not think that players who does early pulls will get blisted by hundreds of players - probably only a handful, like less than 10 (those really extreme players?).

Why do I think so? Because it is simply ridiculous, if you think of it rationally. I think the blist crap have died down quite a bit in Tonberry - earlier on when such shouts were more rampant, some of us even ridiculed our own LS leaders that their blist would soon max out if they have to do it that way. And honestly, the few names that have been shouted to be blisted, I still see them hunting happily with full teams and what not. If you think that you will be blisted by almost the whole server and totally ostracized with daily insane bullies... I think you are over thinking. These chaps would just move on with their hunts for their Allied Seals than wasting time sending stupid insulting tells and missed out on A marks or whatnot.

In any case, like I said, LS does clean up players. I have seen them doing so. They are not a bunch of barbarians, they too wanted to keep things civil and cooperative. However like I said, as there is no current way of directly identifying which player belongs to which LS, there is no direct way to feedback to the LS like you could to the FC leader and do something about it.

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How is that an insult. I'm just stating a fact, a fact that players are losing hate when they have much time lead to build an impassible hate. If this has happened, it is a point for the tank to self-review. Whilst tanking is not my main job, at any point where I am the engaging tank on a single target and if I lost it I'd feel embarrassed about it. That's why whole point. It is just embarrassing if I found the mob, engaged it, and 10-20s later another tank came in and pulled it off me. I wouldn't even have the cheek to cry about it that I lost the mob...

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You've insulted me because you made an assumption about the situation, and then insinuated I was failing at holding hate. It's quite simple.

Like I said, that wasn't the situation. I'm quite happy to be civil, but being forced to wait around for dozens of people to turn up, and then not getting a party invite, and subsequently getting boned on contribution. It doesn't leave a particularly good taste in my mouth, and there's little doubt that the scenario is caused by players from Hunt shells trying to do the "right thing" by resetting countless times while everyone else stands around twiddling their thumbs. It just turns out that the "right thing" for the hunt shells point of view is not the "right thing" for people who happen to come across these NM's in their own time. You do understand that right?

I mean at the very least you've given me impetus to not hold back If I see a spawned B rank, I do wonder how many tells I'm going to get when I put it into practice though ; ) Guess we'll see.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

You've insulted me because you made an assumption about the situation, and then insinuated I was failing at holding hate. It's quite simple.

Like I said, that wasn't the situation. I'm quite happy to be civil, but being forced to wait around for dozens of people to turn up, and then not getting a party invite, and subsequently getting boned on contribution. It doesn't leave a particularly good taste in my mouth, and there's little doubt that the scenario is caused by players from Hunt shells trying to do the "right thing" by resetting countless times while everyone else stands around twiddling their thumbs. It just turns out that the "right thing" for the hunt shells point of view is not the "right thing" for people who happen to come across these NM's in their own time. You do understand that right?

I mean at the very least you've given me impetus to not hold back If I see a spawned B rank, I do wonder how many tells I'm going to get when I put it into practice though ; ) Guess we'll see.

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Well you could go ahead. Personally speaking I hold nothing against solo players from pulling or taking B mobs with their own little party. I can't speak for everyone, but at least players I have spoken too do understand that there are really non LS players out there. If they have so-called ninja'd a B mob then I guess there isn't anything about it. What people are unhappy against are LEECHES - players in a hunting LS that took information but without contribution and either pulled early or ninja'd them. That is something people are against. But if you are not part of any LS and you found a mob, decided not to share and eat it for yourself, I don't think there is anything wrong. At least the guys I've played with and spoken to doesn't think so and we do acknowledge such players around.

With regards to invitations, have you tried inviting others instead? I mean there is no one-way in doing this. I am in 2 LS and that doesn't guarantee me a spot in any hunting parties. At times while waiting for a FC/LS party spot, if a A rank pops I will just teleport, and pick up random players shouting LFP along the way. You don't even need a full team - there was once I picked up 2 WAR, and with me we are a 3 WAR party. There were at least 100 players waiting on the A rank mark as usual as it was still peak hours. Guess what? All 3 of us got our 20 Allied Seals and 80 Myth. You should probably try picking up these guys and form a hunting party or a temp party just for that A rank if you do not get invites when shouting LFP - because most parties are full.

And don't have the misconception that parties started within LS doesn't pick up outsiders. Most groups I know do - we even picked up JP players shouting LFP. It is just that when we need members we asked our FC/LS first, if no one responses we pick up which ever shouting LFP on the map.

But like I said, if you didn't get invite, you CAN actually invite.

Agree with the OP.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

I am doing other things, I stumble upon a mark. Great let me call my friends! Oh no they didn't make it, well I'll just attack it with the other herd here in hopes I can get something.

The complaint is, if you STUMBLE upon a fate, you can still get full credit without being in a party. If you stumble upon a monster you cannot get full credit unless no one else is there or your party/friends make it there in time.
The point is that hunts are very much like fates, but unlike fates rewards are a lot more difficult to obtain even though it's basically the same thing.


However this kind of zerg content should not force players to "join parties ahead of time" to get credit. Nowhere in Yoshida's posts did it ever say it was going to be like that.

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I definitely agree, well said.

I join and make Hunt NM Parties, and even then, there are times when the whole group can't zone in fast enough before the NM dies (someone else engaged it).

And more often than not, even with a few people in a Party, we can't get Full Credit (doing our best from 100% down to 0%).

I feel worse for solo'ers who shout for parties (repeatedly) but get no invites.

The participation calculation should be EASED UP and it should be more fair for Solo'ers or even Partial Parties (the others couldn't get to the NM fast enough) to get a better evaluation / credit.

The way it is now, The Hunt System *does NOT promote Community*: It's the opposite, and promotes an Isolationist / Don't Tell Anyone! behavior in Final Fantasy.

That shouldn't be what this game is about.

I don't think solo players should get full credit with the hunts we have now. That will only encourage 300 million billion trillion gillion pillion gsfdihsfdiowiotillion more people to do hunts. I wonder if too many people zerging a hunt can crash the server? Hmm...

How about instead the devs add solo hunts? Issue is, if they were implemented just like the hunts we have now I don't think it'd be possible to stop zergs from wiping them out in a blink of an eye. But the devs could create new ways to hunt such as hunt leves... or something.

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Originally Posted by Elim

I don't think solo players should get full credit with the hunts we have now. That will only encourage 300 million billion trillion gillion pillion gsfdihsfdiowiotillion more people to do hunts.

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Because there aren't already "300 million billion trillion gillion pillion gsfdihsfdiowiotillion" people doing those hunts in parties :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Because there aren't already "300 million billion trillion gillion pillion gsfdihsfdiowiotillion" people doing those hunts in parties :rolleyes:

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My point exactly. Now double that number if solo players can get full credit.

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Originally Posted by Elim

My point exactly. Now double that number if solo players can get full credit.

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So because I happen to be mining next to a B rank mob, and I switch to my DPS, I'm not allowed to get full credit?
I'm still in the same map regardless.
I will still be attacking the mob with everyone else but for whatever reason you've convinced yourself, me not getting full credit will somehow fix the amount of people on the mob?

LOL.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

for whatever reason you've convinced yourself, me not getting full credit will somehow fix the amount of people on the mob?

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No. You're just twisting my words for whatever reason. Please re-read my post.

All I'm saying is giving full credit to every solo player will only increase the amount of people at each hunt, therefore potentially causing more issues for everyone.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Hunts-for-Good