Frontlines is ruined by exploits, SE need to fix it

Meh, healer groups are good for turtling, that's about it. Great for holding a point, not very good at all for actually taking one. Terrible as a roaming group, terrible for contesting the Heliodrome with.

I'm not sure I understand the problem. as long as you have ppl dealing damage to a mage, they can't really cast right? They can't cast on the move, and instant cast has a long cooldown, so as long as every mage in the group is being dps'd, even if they have a fairy, they should eventually fall from simple attrition (which should be in the attacker's favor due to the healer wall being unable to focus on damage due to spam healing.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

Issues = Stacking of healers in Frontlines
Possible solution = Focusing one healer
Focusing one healer = other healers being free to do as they wish
Free healers = heals the healer being focused.

Solution deemed a failure. Try again.

---

DDs focusing on a single target => DPS > HPS
DPS > HPS => HP_t = 0, t -> ∞

Proposal deemed acceptable.

Or just, you know, have one melee DPS take each healer and boom, their casts keep getting interrupted. If they have a Sleep-happy BLM, get some DPS on that one too.

For all PvP there's a meta game. Players find trends that are strong, and that becomes the meta that is generally expected from the community. This continues until someone finds a system that beats the current meta, and it evolves and changes.

There is no right way to do frontlines, there are simply strategies. All strategies have strengths and weaknesses.

For example full heal parties have little to no chance of winning the objectives in the Helidrome. They are however very strong at holding flags because it's nearly impossible to kill them.

Hint: Make sure you win the helidrome and focus another flag. You don't have to "beat" 1 specific party to win frontlines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZenTao

I keep noticing trend of full group of WHM/SCH going in frontline and almost impossible to kill without LB.

---

Never seen a group of 8 healers in my 221 frontline matches. Its not as common as you think it is.

That being said, I think people just need to learn a thing or two about tactics, or at least be able to react to other peoples tactics. Can't kill them? Not a problem. They can only defend one place at a time. Not hard for your team to cap 3 other flags and let them have their fun.

But to be quite honest, you only need to cap 2 flags and control the middle to win. Maybe try thinking outside the box a bit (or just organize better) They won't last in mid against 2 other forces. In a nutshell, (imo) just have to learn to play better to compensate for that once in a very blue moon situation where it arises.

Each base has multiple points to attack from. You can enlist team B to come assist in between PvE, You can take their other points of interest keeping them at 1 flag. You can split your forces and attack from multiple directions each focus firing 1 target per group. They can only heal people in a certain range. You can utilize sleep effectively (scholar pets) and coordinate only specific people to sleep/damage them. (minus AoE of course). I can think of at least 10 other ways as well to deal with situations like this. Use your imagination. Get creative. Be proactive. Solutions will appear ;)

Its easy to say and hard to do. While you can still win its just annoying and not fun to play vs more than 3 healers. Those "focus healers with a bard" strat is just good at paper but not so good at practice. Healers have too many tools to make 1 single dps life hard. (this is not a bad thing IMO).

So, as many pointed out, i think SE need to put some kind of debuff / nerf to heal potency or maybe re design the flag base thing to something like 3 mini cap spread around the flag and force healers to do single target heal.



Sorry if my english doesn't make sense, its not my native language.

Guys I fought aganis a team with 5 Healers,
we had "only" 3 healers and for about 2 mins we fought on the flag without any success for any team.
After I said in the party chat to a Bard Costatly use AoE to interrupt them, and to the other to focus marked 1 by 1,
they died, was ressed 2 times and then definitevely dead again.
U just need to use a strategy.
(and then they tried to attack us again and we kill ed them again and again XD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

Issues = Stacking of healers in Frontlines
Possible solution = Focusing one healer
Focusing one healer = other healers being free to do as they wish
Free healers = heals the healer being focused.

Solution deemed a failure. Try again.

---

As SCH sometimes I receive a lot of attacks but I'm totally terrified by FLARE.
It can lower your HP almost to half of your maximum,
other healer can heal but god, if 3 dps will hit almost together that healer will die
really fast, also 1 player has anyway to AoE healers, just to interrupt some cast.

I noticed that usually 2 or 3 player focus a random player and not the marked, THAT
is the problem XD

I think you are not getting the point.

Ofc you need to adapt your strat for PvP, thats the point of the game. The thing is that healers are a bit OP atm and we need to fix this.

kind of reminds me of guild wars 1 team comps, where fights would go on a while with nothing happening. the momentum shifting based on who made the first mistake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blowfin

Meh, healer groups are good for turtling, that's about it. Great for holding a point, not very good at all for actually taking one. Terrible as a roaming group, terrible for contesting the Heliodrome with.

---

You control a point by having more people on top of it.
It has nothing to do with killing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZenTao

LOL , I love some of the replies. just so you know, the full healer groups is not only noticed by me from enemies , but also on our allies, soon enough everyone in frontlines will be asking to switch to whms and kill what suppose to be enjoyable PvP. It is so easy just for everyone to switch to healer and have endless battles but the fact is, it is an exploit and doesnt require anything but regen IIs medicas and spam holy. difficult right? lol

---

From across the board perspective; you just sound real salty because you lack the skillset to kill. I don't understand why people lack the intellectual capacity to understand if they decide to go full heal; who cares let them; go to a different flag. Little does anyone know if you took 5 people and coordinated properly you could kill just about any healer. Take for granted they can just get rezzed.

It's not an exploit when SE clearly states; "there is no class compositions restrictions." If You implement a restriction, your ques will be even damn worse and you wouldn't have any healers which brings you back to this thread crying about something else.

Just saying boss.

One simple nerf that will really help is remove healers ability to Cleric Stance during PvP. They didn't mind removing Resurrection from SMN and nerfing our Miasmas did they? That weighed down effect from disease... Oh how I miss thee.

Back to the point, the reason 8 healers are so powerful is because they can Cleric Stance and become DPS but if things start getting bad they remove it and spam cure lol I honestly feel removing cleric stance would be the best solution. I often play on WHM myself and I wouldn't mind it one bit. Also, how about putting Equanimity a 1 min timer eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydia13

One simple nerf that will really help is remove healers ability to Cleric Stance during PvP.

---

You're right, healers shouldn't have huge DPS, same for tanks, theirs jobs should be protect each other instead of dealing a lot of damage. Pvp is totally unbalance atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenlys

You're right, healers shouldn't have huge DPS, same for tanks, theirs jobs should be protect each other instead of dealing a lot of damage. Pvp is totally unbalance atm.

---

It's either that, or give DPS access to more defensive cooldowns.

I don't think this is an EXPLOIT. I'd rather call it as OVERPOWER, Over power in a sense having their fairies to heal them while attacking. But, SCH are MUCH powerless without their summon. Supposedly, they are soft and easy to kill but with their fairy they can kill MRD, PLD or DRG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenlys

You're right, healers shouldn't have huge DPS, same for tanks, theirs jobs should be protect each other instead of dealing a lot of damage. Pvp is totally unbalance atm.

---

It is not totally unbalanced. Just your opinion of it.

I can 1v1 any class with my chosen profession BLM including whm and scholars (though scholar can be a pain if you don't sleep their pet). I took a PLD down solo from full health in 6 seconds flat a couple days ago (using all my CD as well, lowering magic resist, raging strikes, fire 3 proc, swiftcast flare) then got slaughtered by someone else a few seconds later ;)

Perhaps you either need a patter party make up or just need to learn how to pvp better 1v1. I win some I lose some, its not a guarantee win/loss ever single time.

Inb4 frontlines pvp adjustments.:rolleyes:

Whole party heals while you can.

Also people saying use a full black mage party. Like everyone has a black mages.

Even with 3-4 healers/dps party things become a problem. If both sides have the same party fights get pretty long. It is somewhat an advantage like people say considering the dps output to healing. Just really need restrictions. Two per party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenlys

You're right, healers shouldn't have huge DPS, same for tanks, theirs jobs should be protect each other instead of dealing a lot of damage. Pvp is totally unbalance atm.

---

No, because in each mmo any job can play agressively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

No, because in each mmo any job can play agressively.

---

They are talking about for PvP only just like how Resurrection was removed for SMNs only in PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenlys

You're right, healers shouldn't have huge DPS, same for tanks, theirs jobs should be protect each other instead of dealing a lot of damage. Pvp is totally unbalance atm.

---

PvP is totallly unbalance atm if you want 1 v 1, but Frontline is team PvP......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YaHiKoDrG

They are talking about for PvP only just like how Resurrection was removed for SMNs only in PvP.

---

Nah, either of these two are fine:

Instant cast doesnt work with Resurrection.
Resurrection would drain all of the current mp.

Currently, healers nor casters have issue with MP at all. I dont even know what is the point for manasong to even exist.

Quote:

---

Currently, healers nor casters have issue with MP at all. I dont even know what is the point for manasong to even exist.

---

Keeping Foe Requiem up for longer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

DDs focusing on a single target => DPS > HPS

---

This part of your equation is flawed.

HPS will ALWAYS exceed DPS, especially if the healers are unburdened with interrupts.

The only possible solution to a healer-heavy party is to have one DD each focus on one healer each, but good luck getting that kind of coordination with randomly matched groups!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemight

PvP is totallly unbalance atm if you want 1 v 1, but Frontline is team PvP......

---

Take a look in arena ! You'll see how its unbalance even with hard matchmaking restriction...

while i understand that having team full of healers can help you keep outpost.. but i still dont get how it could be beneficial. normally in frontlines you play with 1-3 healers. usually the number is 2. i like 3 healers because there is more versatility and their dps get split between them 3 so they can heal each other easier and stay alive. but whenever i see some weird stuff like 6 healers in one team, most of the people just change to dps.

It's just silly how a healer can do more damage than a dps can heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YaHiKoDrG

They are talking about for PvP only just like how Resurrection was removed for SMNs only in PvP.

---

Its still no. Why any heal would be limited at playin the heal bot ? I mean literally 0 mmos that were released these last 5 - 6 years did that. You can dps and heal in every single of them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Its still no. Why any heal would be limited at playin the heal bot ? I mean literally 0 mmos that were released these last 5 - 6 years did that. You can dps and heal in every single of them

---

How about because you can choose a DPS job if you want to DPS... You're not limited to just healing if you queue as a healer. Also, allowing Healers to become a full fledged DPS in an instant is fine in PvE, but its horribly unbalanced for PvP. Jobs that have such an enormous advantage over others get nerfed in the name of balance. That's just how it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhas

It is not totally unbalanced. Just your opinion of it.

I can 1v1 any class with my chosen profession BLM including whm and scholars (though scholar can be a pain if you don't sleep their pet). I took a PLD down solo from full health in 6 seconds flat a couple days ago (using all my CD as well, lowering magic resist, raging strikes, fire 3 proc, swiftcast flare) then got slaughtered by someone else a few seconds later ;)

Perhaps you either need a patter party make up or just need to learn how to pvp better 1v1. I win some I lose some, its not a guarantee win/loss ever single time.

---

I don't see why you're bringing 1v1 talk into a 72 player battle lol Do you honestly believe 8 BLMs could even touch 8 Healers in a fight for a flag?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydia13

How about because you can choose a DPS job if you want to DPS... You're not limited to just healing if you queue as a healer. Also, allowing Healers to become a full fledged DPS in an instant is fine in PvE, but its horribly unbalanced for PvP. Jobs that have such an enormous advantage over others get nerfed in the name of balance. That's just how it is.

---

You probably need to pvp more often then. Ever played Guild Wars 2 ? its literally the core of the gameplay, alternating between abilities to dps ones in an instant. Besides, if you take a closer look ... scholars literally got more options to DPS than to heal in their design.

(bio 2, miasma, bio, miasma 2, bane, shadowflare, ruin & ruin 2, energy drain vs physick, adloquium, lustrate, and succor. Rest is embrace / whisperin dawn done by the fairy)

They are supports / mitigators that got the ability for and have to dps compared to the WHM that got way, way more tools to heal any kind of situation, got also fluid aura and sacred prism, while their dps is lower than scholar's ones.

It is pretty balanced as it is.

Dps should do at least 2/3 more than any healer.

I cant recall how many times ive been yelled at by the dpsers in my team that weren't healed enough according to their tastes. The kind of dpsers, playins bards, stayin in front of their enemy in melee range, havin crappy dps and not usin buffs, doin a whoopin 3 - 2 total while I can manage to do 8 - 10 kills in each match, its not my dps that is abnormal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Snip

---

No ive never played that game. I don't really care either. Having healers be DPS is great and can be perfectly balanced in your game, but in this game, for PvP, it doesn't work. At least not when you're allowed to have a 8 healers in a party. In this game, you have the option to switch jobs in the middle of PvP, so if you don't wana heal and instead wana dps, just switch! You can't do that in GW2.(did a very quick wiki search for this info, I could be wrong lol.)

Also, SCH are not "support", they're HEALERS. There are no support jobs although the closest to being one would be BRD. Every job has a primary role, each being able to support the group in some way. Lastly, removing Cleric Stance won't take away a healers right to DPS, it'll just make it bad enough so that it won't be overpowered. You can still drop DoTs as SCH without them needing to be stronger than a SMNs lol

You just didnt understand this game to begin with, and I won't be sorry for you. Dps of healers isnt really that high to begin with since you need 3 - 4 dots and like 4 energy drains + same amount of Ruin 2 to kill a monk / dragoon / bard. Scholars are really good against melees / bards and weak against casters / tanks.

It is NOT unbalanced to have a healer that can simply be more than a punching ball. 8 healers groups have been defeated by playin cleverly, as in, swappin of outposts quite often and murderin the 2 other groups non stop. Healing a member of another group of your alliance is quite tricky ya know ;)

I can see your unwillingness to agree, even though you're totally wrong. No job should be able to fill two roles in PvP because that's when things become unbalanced.

Let's play by your rules for a second then. Why should healers be able to dps and heal, but dps can't do the same? They can add a counter PvP only ability for DPS/tanks that works in the exact opposite way that Cleric Stance works. This will allow everyone to have the same balance sort of. This means that I can heal for more than a WHM/SCH as SMN on same tier spell due to the extra 10% healing potency the buff will give, just like Cleric Stance does for your damage.

Do you see how ridiculously silly that would be? Nobody would ever die.. why? Cuz healing in PvP is UNBALANCED. I hope you can see that now. Even without Cleric Stance, healers can still do damage, just not high damage like DPS.

Wait so dpsers / tanks dont have physick, stoneskin, bloodbath and second wind on top of pots ? Theres nothing wrong with cleric stance since it diminish a lot your direct heals. Healer in cleric isnt actually healin at all, and I sincerely doubt that eos healin one single target every 3 seconds is actually much of an imbalance since the pet can be killed quite fast.

Healers in final fantasy ARE NOT pure healers. Be it white mage or scholars. Its your definition of healer that is flawed at the start, aka, a heal should only heal and have really low dps which is just wrong, otherwise Whm wouldnt have one of the best AoEs in the game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

This part of your equation is flawed.

HPS will ALWAYS exceed DPS, especially if the healers are unburdened with interrupts.

The only possible solution to a healer-heavy party is to have one DD each focus on one healer each, but good luck getting that kind of coordination with randomly matched groups!

---

Always doesn't mean what you think it means.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydia13

Snip Snip Snip

---

Simply what? I saw all your post and none of them have a slightly of sense... Where did you saw a SCH dot hitting high than a summoner one? Please speak seriously... Have you played pvp on any other MMO before?
Saying that a Healer cannot dps? WTF dude? If this is the case then the monk cannot use Mantra because OMG boy so unbalanced the dps poped a cooldown to help the healing instead of only dps Nerf it please I cannot have my kills this way

I like some of the replies, but again that was not the intention of what I am saying. annoying? sure , can be dealt with in different strat? sure. but it takes the fun out of frontline. stacking a class that is already OP should be restricted to allow better game play.

and it does not mean it will slow frontline at all, for example, 5 healers joined in one alliance and other alliance only have 1 healer. what will happen , the game will give you option to change, if you dont change within 30sec, it automatically switch alliances members around until balanced set of healers are in each alliance.

an even simpler solution, allow switching to other alliances before the battle begin. where there is switch > person you want to switch with press confirm > switch occur. this will also fix alliances set ups in the begining. should give 2min preperation instead too.

For everyone saying its balanced to have Heals do such large DPS, why not then let DRG, MNK, etc do some healing.
Seems legit.