FFXIV: Cheat 2 Win - The New Norm?

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

So you have admitted to having third party software, and that you have used it in the past with the parser, so we both agree you should be banned.

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You must be thick, even if pyreflye said they used a parser there are quite a few posts from Yoshi saying it's fine. If he ever changed his stance then I think we would all agree those using it would stop or risk the ban. Just because you think they should be banned for it does not make it so.

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Originally Posted by AtomX

You must be thick, even if pyreflye said they used a parser there are quite a few posts from Yoshi saying it's fine. If he ever changed his stance then I think we would all agree those using it would stop or risk the ban. Just because you think they should be banned for it does not make it so.

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"Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action. "

From an official news bulletin here:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...948.1402212480

If you Google it as well, there are many threads on Reddit about people complaining about being banned for saying in chat they use a parser, or more specifically, the FF14ARR app.

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Originally Posted by Akmzero

To be fair, SE did wait like 2+ years to ban anyone for the mass dupe glitch even though they knew it was happening and was aware of the glitch.

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To be fair they hit everyone who did at once, so they obviously spent a lot of man hours finding out who and when, and gavel'd them all on the spot.
What happened? These people who got hit - most of the elitists, mind you - started crying all over the social websites.

Nine times out of ten the people who abuse these use them for personal gain, and is why they're always ahead of the curb. Hence why Bluegartr is like lol look at dis app. Also why we're hearing about high end Free Companies abusing them as well. We all know you do, some of you stream with them active like it isn't even against the ToS.

The same people defending this will be the ones crying because there's no defending it unless you use it yourself. Render distance or not, that monster is behind the rock you may pass by. Wide Scan doesn't exist in this like it did in 11.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I am not advocating for third-party programs, DPS meters, or anything else, but it's an unavoidable fact that a very significant portion of the playerbase wants certain things and will turn to a third party for them if they are unavailable, as they have in this game.

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I'd like to add my support for a sanctioned add on channel like other modern games have. The ability to TRULY customize the UI ala Bartender and a lightweight DPS meter are things that make the experience so much more enjoyable. I think that SE's stance is largely because of their dedication to the Playstation platform. As long as they are supporting playstation, SE isn't going to let us have anything that could potentially give us an "edge" over them (nevermind the fact we already have one in terms of better hardware, peripherals, and interface).

It's unfortunate, but I'm not holding my breath on it unless the PC market really blows up the subscriptions and people come out in force asking for it. I'm not sure we even have the numbers tbh.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

If SE had launched the game with addon support, or had at least implemented it on schedule, this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

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I can promise you SE wouldn't have allowed something to offer you an advantage to be on their game nor would they OFFICIALLY support it by adding it to the PS3/PS4 version of the game. They would allow something like a DPS meter, but something to offer advantages over people who don't/can't use it? Nope.

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Far fewer people would be willing to install a third-party program if they could get those things through a first-party sanctioned channel.

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Hmm...no because the officially supported addons won't offer you things that 3rd party programs do and will - For example SE will never support pos hacking, speed hacking, auto routing to nodes (basically botting) or anything to offer advantages meaning 3rd party programs will still be very much used as they'll offer what SE will not support.

Look at MMOs with add-on support, then look up how many hacks/bots exist for said MMO.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'd like to add my support for a sanctioned add on channel like other modern games have. The ability to TRULY customize the UI ala Bartender and a lightweight DPS meter are things that make the experience so much more enjoyable. I think that SE's stance is largely because of their dedication to the Playstation platform. As long as they are supporting playstation, SE isn't going to let us have anything that could potentially give us an "edge" over them (nevermind the fact we already have one in terms of better hardware, peripherals, and interface).

It's unfortunate, but I'm not holding my breath on it unless the PC market really blows up the subscriptions and people come out in force asking for it. I'm not sure we even have the numbers tbh.

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Might want to do your research - I know PC is the "Master race" and all, but they stated themselves they have the ability to implement add ons to the PS3/PS4 version, especially the PS4 version if they feel it wouldn't hurt the game balance. They stated this when they first mentioned adding add-on support.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

The game released with TOS saying all third party software was prohibited, so it doesn't matter what time frame it was, if you used it in this game, it was against TOS. Saying you didn't use it after the official announcement means nothing, it was against the rules before and after anyone said anything about them.

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Wrong.
Yoshi himself said that parsing software was 100% A-OK.

It was only until recently (a couple of months) where they were explicitly stated as banned.

Talk it up all you want, mate.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Wrong.
Yoshi himself said that parsing software was 100% A-OK.

It was only until recently (a couple of months) where they were explicitly stated as banned.

Talk it up all you want, mate.

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No he didn't - He said if you're using it don't mention it since he knows regardless people will use it and it is 100% punishable if you're using a parser to harass other players. This was said even prior to launch.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No he didn't - He said if you're using it don't mention it since he knows regardless people will use it and it is 100% punishable if you're using a parser to harass other players. This was said even prior to launch.

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The announcement of parsers being officially banned was on 03/04/2014.
Prior to this date, parsers were widely used, and always considered to be fine to use

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Wrong.
Yoshi himself said that parsing software was 100% A-OK.

It was only until recently (a couple of months) where they were explicitly stated as banned.

Talk it up all you want, mate.

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Boy are you in for a surprise soon.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

I can promise you SE wouldn't have allowed something to offer you an advantage to be on their game nor would they OFFICIALLY support it by adding it to the PS3/PS4 version of the game. They would allow something like a DPS meter, but something to offer advantages over people who don't/can't use it? Nope.

Hmm...no because the officially supported addons won't offer you things that 3rd party programs do and will - For example SE will never support pos hacking, speed hacking, auto routing to nodes (basically botting) or anything to offer advantages meaning 3rd party programs will still be very much used as they'll offer what SE will not support.

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The vast majority of people using third-party programs do so because they want the basic features that would normally be available via a sanctioned first-party addon system. If you gave them those features in a regulated environment they would never have installed a third-party program and would be far less likely to "cross the line" and install one over something grey area/"cheating" like this.

Purely as a thought experiment: imagine you have a broken video game and the only way to fix it is with a Game Genie code. So you purchase a Game Genie, apply the code, and can play the game. However, now you've got a Game Genie and there a whole bunch of other codes you can apply, say, god mode or unlimited ammo. Are you more or less inclined to take advantage of those extra codes, having already obtained a Game Genie, than someone who does not have a Game Genie in the first place and would have to obtain one first?

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

Boy are you in for a surprise soon.

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Well, if I get banned, I get banned.

All that will happen is that SE loses a subscriber, I'm not going to cry over not being able to play a video game.

Not going to resubscribe if I get banned for using a parser on a Striking Dummy for 5 minutes to compare my DPS to other DRGs at my ilvl.

All it will mean is that I know who in the community is an absolute bellend for reporting me.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Well, if I get banned, I get banned.

All that will happen is that SE loses a subscriber, I'm not going to cry over not being able to play a video game.

Not going to resubscribe if I get banned for using a parser for 5 minutes to compare my DPS to other DRGs at my ilvl.

All it will mean is that I know who in the community is an absolute bellend for reporting me.

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All it means is that you disobeyed the ToS.

Nothing more, friend.

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

The REAL problem is the PC community. None of this "cheating" would even be possible on the PS4. So maybe SE should think about that next time they decide to develop a game for a questionable community anyway.

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Wtf???... I hope you're joking. If there was a 3rd party app for PlayStation I'm sure just as many people would be using it. Probably even more. Your desire to show hate to a player base shows your own insecurities and immaturity. Please try and troll harder next time.

Just get some friends/FC members together, rename your chocobo's to the weekly mark and while looking around legit-ly, have one person call their chocobo out. Leave it up for 2 or 3 mins, dismiss, wait one minute, have another call out their chocobo in a different area on the same map. Sends people on a wild goose chase and has them second guess just how useful the radar thing really is. Plus, it's pretty amusing.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

remember to either record them or screenshot them so you can report them. sooner these people are found out the sooner they can be purged.

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Jesus yeah witch hunts always go well. I mean I realize you guys are wildly pissed about other people having a slight advantage in horribly implemented content that almost might not exist if it wasn't a way for players to get raid gear. Though no one at square if going to accept stuff like that as a basis of banning someone.

I think you guys need to settle the hell down. This is disappointing but you're responding like someone died. They can probably hotfix out what this addon does by removing the quest mob tracking functionality from the minimap (or adjusting it). The real issue is that the game is telling the client where all the mobs are inside the minimap area.

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Originally Posted by Worm

The real issue is that the game is telling the client where all the mobs are inside the minimap area.

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Because it needs to, or you wouldn't be able to see them.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Because it needs to, or you wouldn't be able to see them.

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Uh really? Wouldn't that mean you could make an undetectable radar addon for every game that exists? I don't think the host needs to broadcast a direct plain text X Y coordinate to the Client for the mob to be able to appear. If that data was just serverside (your client goes to the server to get it) I'm pretty sure you'd still see the mob. I guess maybe I didn't explain it well, but obviously the game is broadcasting X Y data in a way which players can easily grab it.

I'm sure some guy whose designed multiple MMOs will come here and call me an idiot, but I always though the issues with these exploits was that data was not disguised well enough or at all. Or the server didn't check if the data coming back was good.

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Originally Posted by Worm

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I'm sorry you think that way but when I've yet to see the weekly Hunt let alone any other one after five days because people are cheating and the cheaters now have at least a full set of upgraded soldiery gear you can bet your ass people are bitter. I'd like to be able to participate in content that was added. Not run around for hours on end, not see anything and see people cheat to win. This was poorly designed, poorly handled and by the time it's addressed, the non-cheaters will be screwed over and the cheaters will have everything they need from it.

I don't even want the freaking sands of time as much as I want the minions but at 7 points per day to do the crappy ass normal hunt mobs it will take me 136 days to get them. 136 days because I refuse to cheat and thus can't find let alone kill as of these higher hunts.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

I've yet to see the weekly Hunt let alone any other one after five days because people are cheating

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Are you in a hunt LS and joining parties? If not, you can't expect to find many on your own, and it has nothing to do with cheaters. There are a lot of people out looking and keeping track of death times and if you don't want to avail yourself to their assistance you only have yourself to blame.

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Originally Posted by Worm

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You wouldn't see the mob if it was like that. It's just how a computer works, no mob in memory with the coordinates, no mob for you. Computers cannot solve problems in the same way as a human can. You can encrypt the stuff, but the encryption key needs to be in the memory as well, which you can grab just as easily.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Are you in a hunt LS and joining parties? If not, you can't expect to find many on your own, and it has nothing to do with cheaters. There are a lot of people out looking and keeping track of death times and if you don't want to avail yourself to their assistance you only have yourself to blame.

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was in two, both have shut down because they were unable to get to anything before it died. People are frustrated and rightly so. Please don't go about defending people who are monopolizing, especially those doing so with cheating tools. Because they WILL start trying to sell allied seals for gil by next week I'm sure.

Or maybe the accounts are being marked. Then there gil is tracked, and then the RMT business account is deleted along with all the generated gil.

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Originally Posted by Ephany

What I don't understand, is why it's sooooooo important for these people to "win" to the point that they feel the need to exploit through third party software.
I mean... it's just a game, right?

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I'm sorry but that's a very unreasonable logic. It is just a game but at the same time it isn't. It takes up hours of your day just like any other activity (work, school, etc). The last thing people want to do is come home and spend hours hunting in coerthas to yield unfruitful results. It's a waste of time and honestly, the way the game is cheating their players with hunts I'm not surprised players are cheating back with no sympathy towards square enix. Thankfully I have other things to keep me busy (got started on my animus books) so I can completely ignore the existence of marks.

And while an advantage is an advantage, I think people are over-exaggerating how useful it really is.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

I'm sorry but that's a very unreasonable logic. It is just a game but at the same time it isn't. It takes up hours of your day just like any other activity (work, school, etc). The last thing people want to do is come home and spend hours hunting in coerthas to yield unfruitful results. It's a waste of time and honestly, the way the game is cheating their players with hunts I'm not surprised players are cheating back with no sympathy towards square enix. Thankfully I have other things to keep me busy (got started on my animus books) so I can completely ignore the existence of marks.

And while an advantage is an advantage, I think people are over-exaggerating how useful it really is.

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To be fair, no matter what, it is just a video game unless I can go down the street and walk into Eorzea. There's no overexaggeration since it's a slippery slope from there - also proves just how many really will use 3rd party tools to gain advantages "over nothing."

I think that open world stuff is a bad idea anyways. The fact that I saw a sight seeing log GUIDE the FIRST day it released. HOW IS THAT EVEN REMOTELY ENJOYABLE? You find it fun to read "go to X" and then go there? How does that even make you feel accomplished.

I don't understand why SE doesn't have something like the Warden System that WoW uses. Supposedly that will take random snapshots of what is currently running in memory. And then the game Devs could add App Signatures to it to block the apps no? If that's not how Warden is supposed to work please correct me if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kerowyn

I don't understand why SE doesn't have something like the Warden System that WoW uses. Supposedly that will take random snapshots of what is currently running in memory. And then the game Devs could add App Signatures to it to block the apps no? If that's not how Warden is supposed to work please correct me if I am wrong.

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Because people would cry foul on SE for wanting to protect their game.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Because people would cry foul on SE for wanting to protect their game.

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Not everyone. Just people using 3rd Party programs.

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Originally Posted by Kerowyn

I don't understand why SE doesn't have something like the Warden System that WoW uses. Supposedly that will take random snapshots of what is currently running in memory. And then the game Devs could add App Signatures to it to block the apps no? If that's not how Warden is supposed to work please correct me if I am wrong.

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Because it's just another cat and mouse game, rather have devs focusing on content than something that will be bypassed within hours.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

You wouldn't see the mob if it was like that. It's just how a computer works, no mob in memory with the coordinates, no mob for you. Computers cannot solve problems in the same way as a human can. You can encrypt the stuff, but the encryption key needs to be in the memory as well, which you can grab just as easily.

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Honestly I'm pretty sure you don't need the mob's X Y coordinates in your local memory. Why can't it be on the server? Are you actually some kind of computer science professional who knows better than me or just stating your layman's opinion with more authority?

I never saw a tool like this in World of Warcraft example that let you track without being a hunter. I think this is probably more releated to the recent change that lets you see quest mobs on your minimap than something that's been in every game in the world for years but only recently discovered.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

I don't even want the freaking sands of time as much as I want the minions but at 7 points per day to do the crappy ass normal hunt mobs it will take me 136 days to get them. 136 days because I refuse to cheat and thus can't find let alone kill as of these higher hunts.

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Uh same here really I just honestly can't manage to get as bitter as you about this. I mean a lot of people are working themselves into a huff. I'm sure if you guys had a little more time you'd decide that people must be bot farming all of the rare spawns just warping around the map all willy nilly.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

To be fair, no matter what, it is just a video game unless I can go down the street and walk into Eorzea. There's no overexaggeration since it's a slippery slope from there - also proves just how many really will use 3rd party tools to gain advantages "over nothing."

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Speaking of unreasonable logic! We can't walk to Eorzea so obviously it's just a game (like tic tac toe) and that proves it's really not worth caring about and that's why I've made 2000+ forum posts about it. This "just a game" line is such a load of crap, and it's almost exclusively used by people who probably can't accept how invested they are in the damn game.

Actually there were Addons that let you scan and track specific mobs in the game. Quest related or not. I remember there was an addon that people could use to find rare mobs that were needed for specific rare items in the game. All you had to do was be in the specific zone that the mob spawns in and it would scan and then target the mob once it was within targeting range.

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Originally Posted by Worm

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It's got nothing to do with the minimap. The computer needs to be aware of all the mobs around you and their locations in order to render them and include all the functions they serve (NPC, mob, object etc.). The app does nothing but get this information and parse it on an overlay on top of the ingame-map (or minimap).

Everything your computer does is based on instructions found in the RAM, and this information is uploaded there by your hard drive, network card etc. It's called working memory for a reason.

So I assume that's a "yes" in reference to you stating your laymen's opinion with more authority?

I feel like there's a way they can break the addon. I honestly don't have much experience with cheat engines, but I'm pretty sure wall hacks and radar apps are detectable in FPS style games, right? They should just have to do something like that. I mean maybe things like this are common in all games and FFXIV would need some anti-cheat engine, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Worm

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They already do this with every patch by remapping memory addresses, but the developers simply roll out a fix within hours. Hacks are detected because they modify the memory, but this app simply reads it (which is done by so many different programs you can't use it as a ban reason). Anti-cheat software checks for memory manipulations, textures you are using and many kinds of different checksums. You can make a player radar for an FPS game and it won't be detected by technical means, they get caught because their cheat software comes with many hacks that are detectable. They also often have have a blacklist that blocks software with a specific hash from running, or simply bans you for it (but this is easily bypassed, it's a cat and mouse game).

You can detect memory editing as an obvious cheat, but you cannot detect merely reading it as a cheat attempt. The app does not directly interact with the game at all, it merely draws an overlay on top of the screen, interaction with the game would be detectable.

I think we all can agree that there needs to be something done about this, no matter which FC or LS is caught with it.

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Originally Posted by Kerowyn

Actually there were Addons that let you scan and track specific mobs in the game. Quest related or not. I remember there was an addon that people could use to find rare mobs that were needed for specific rare items in the game. All you had to do was be in the specific zone that the mob spawns in and it would scan and then target the mob once it was within targeting range.

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I'm pretty sure this was during the relic questline. I'm not so sure if it considered an addon because it is built into the system, rather than having a third party application track it for you.

Problem is this application is probably really hard to detect. From what I heard, it's probably reading the game memory and not modifying anything, nor sending data to the server (like the underground botters do). This makes it hard to detect. Square would have to implement a "Warden" style service in the game to scan for programs reading FFXIV's memory and flag the accounts that do. The other way is investigate LSs and characters that have admitted to using them in chat, though that can be circumvented using mumble or skype.

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Originally Posted by Halisstra

I think it all comes down to money. SE can't afford to lose thousands of paying customers (literally) so they turn a blind eye.

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They can't do anything about third party apps without violating player privacy. Their software would require the ability to read all processes on your machine, which requires administrator level privileges. They'd be in violation of privacy laws in several countries.

edit: Just to clarify, I am referring specifically to those apps that read incoming data and not hacks, which effect ingame memory.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

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It just seems so UNREAL to me that someone could be making this kind of simple and hugely advantageous tool for FPS games that is TOTALLY UNDETECTABLE and not bother to make it stand alone but instead package it with a bunch of detectable programs. Though I appreciate your explanation but with that explanation I just cannot believe these aren't 100% common in FPS.

I mean I tend to believe you since you seem pretty knowledgeable but I just have a hard time believing that such an undetectable exploit and further an exploit you suggest that is 100% intrinsic to how computers work fundamentally isn't in literally all online games all at once.

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Originally Posted by Wolfram_Alexandros

I'm pretty sure this was during the relic questline. I'm not so sure if it considered an addon because it is built into the system, rather than having a third party application track it for you.

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I was talking about an addon that was used in WoW to find and track rare spawns. For example there were rare Hunter Pets like the Ghost Wolf that Hunters in that game could tame.