6 months to create ONE equipment set!?

I was reading this on my phone, logged on just to reply to this. I am a game designer, I use Maya to create models on par with FFXIII. IT DOES NOT TAKE 6 MONTHS TO CREATE ONE SET OF GEAR. It doesn't matter how high the texutre res is, dumbing down tex res can be done in seconds, maybe a minute if your workstation is slow. resizing the gear for different character models for perfection with the number of models FFXIV has can take a day or two max. Full concept art can be made and finalized in a day max. Modeling the gear - each piece can be done in a day .. 8 hour work day is a very long time if you are just modeling. I recreated a high res Lightning FFXIII model in 2 days just doing it here and there. Not that explaining any of this will speed up SE's creation time or will it do any other good than to have other people more reason to complain. I just figured I would log on to share my experience. All in all, a good solid week for a good modeled gear set.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

OK LETS DO THIS

since there are so many artists in this tread i suggest a concept ART showdown for future jobs!
who knows maybe SE will use a set on the game if they read the thread

GOGOGO!!!

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It is a nice idea, only problem is a copyright issue. we create concept art for them, they use it, then the concept artist would want some cash for their work. This goes the same way for some of the great literary works I have seen from members on these forums.

First off, am I the only one who thinks Rukkirii is cute as all hell? I'd pull the equipment set off her any day ;)

I too do 3D modeling. I can't say I have done any equipment sets for a video game but what I can say is that breakdown above is way off. Keep in mind this company does have high visual standards. Look at square films and Advent Children or even Spirits Within. Different teams but still the same belief on visual quality.

Concept art would be more like 4-5 weeks as it has to be approved by everyone and fit the future development in the long run. They make a R20 piece look way cooler than a R50 and what would happen?

Wireframes are quick and easy and should not even take a week.

Actual modeling should only take a week to iron out as well.

General Physics and Inside dimensions are already figured out for each race/size. Rigging individual armor pieces may take a few weeks if they change how elements move and what effects gravity and motion have.

Texture and lighting maybe 2-4 weeks

Final tweaks maybe another 2 weeks

Final Approval 2 more weeks

So I can see 3 months but 6 is really a stretch unless it gets hung up pending approvals from different people. Knowing business, a lot of processes have to build in padding to development. I know I double time estimates when doing large scale web design.

P.S. Rukkirii if you read this I meant no offense :) If you're single and interested in a long distance relationship send me a PM ;)

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Originally Posted by Synfrag

First off, am I the only one who thinks Rukkirii is cute as all hell? I'd pull the equipment set off her any day ;)

I too do 3D modeling. I can't say I have done any equipment sets for a video game but what I can say is that breakdown above is way off. Keep in mind this company does have high visual standards. Look at square films and Advent Children or even Spirits Within. Different teams but still the same belief on visual quality.

Concept art would be more like 4-5 weeks as it has to be approved by everyone and fit the future development in the long run. They make a R20 piece look way cooler than a R50 and what would happen?

Wireframes are quick and easy and should not even take a week.

Actual modeling should only take a week to iron out as well.

General Physics and Inside dimensions are already figured out for each race/size. Rigging individual armor pieces may take a few weeks if they change how elements move and what effects gravity and motion have.

Texture and lighting maybe 2-4 weeks

Final tweaks maybe another 2 weeks

Final Approval 2 more weeks

So I can see 3 months but 6 is really a stretch unless it gets hung up pending approvals from different people. Knowing business, a lot of processes have to build in padding to development. I know I double time estimates when doing large scale web design.

P.S. Rukkirii if you read this I meant no offense :) If you're single and interested in a long distance relationship send me a PM ;)

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Modeling is quick. the only way it would take 6 months would be from overhead and approvals.

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Originally Posted by SAMINUS

Modeling is quick. the only way it would take 6 months would be from overhead and approvals.

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Yeah, that was my point I guess. A little long winded.

I think different people, in different businesses, are reading the 6 months in different ways. I am in the design business and so I read it in terms of "schedule" and not that the whole team takes 6 months on one set. I also read it as one armor set means it needs to have each independent armor piece that fits each race and each variable of each race. I am certain they can crank out more than one of these in 6 months because they can scale horizontally. Add more people and then you can do more in parallel. Also, each stage of the process will generally be done by a different person or group. Once one person finishes their part of the work, they hand it off to the next stage and then they are free to work on the next armor design. So, it may take a long time to have one piece come out, but you keep the pipeline full and a new piece comes out every few weeks.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

Well, I was defending SE in saying I couldn't do the same quality in the same time they can, but I can give you proof of what I do by my old portfolio atleast, if this gives my word any credit (am not allowed to show any of what I work on in studio otherwise I will be fired lol) http://mattyws.moonfruit.com/

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There! I would believe this guy's opinion over anyone saying they do this stuff all the time in 3 weeks.

Six-months seems be the entire: start>finish process, as many have mentioned. The team is not locked in a room and then 6 months later emerge; "we have done it! we have created a new set!" I'm sure more than one set is in the works at any given time, and a lot of time is spent going through channels and getting feedback and approval :yada yada speculation:

The gear also seems to be designed around form fitting with any other piece of equipment. I have no idea how they pulled that off but I am sure it is not easy! And the complexity of the skeletons and weight painting has got to be a total nightmare in order to properly incorporate the motion-capture they use. I'm sure one month alone is spent tweaking the shoulders so when you lift your arm you do not look like a coach in a football game :p

If your curious though you should check out the equip files in the XIV directory. This isn't the days of XI anymore! equips aren't just a 3-D model with an image mapped onto them, it is some pretty large and sophisticated series of folders and files to create one working in game model. I think it is client>chara>pc>(race folders)>equ

If a company ever makes better looking models, and claims to do it faster, I would be very interested in their methods :cool:

they need to hire more developers

textures shouldn't be the most hardest part, I think the physical movement and model displaying are the hardest work and they need to do it for each race/sex character models

I agree with Kajika. It's a matter of scheduling and management not necessarily design time. And you're probably right in that they are cranking stuff out on a regular basis especially seeing as how it has been way less than 6 months and we have our Grand Company sets. I also work in the design industry so I understand art processes but then again we turn out about 5,000 designs a year between 12 artists.

I'm in the process of redesigning my website and updating my portfolio but if you need proof.

My old Flash Portfolio

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Originally Posted by miqokini

"it takes about 6 months to create one full set of equipment that maintains FFXIV's high standards of graphics."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...712#post225712

Is this some kind of cruel joke, SE? Are you just mocking us with this statement?

I don't care what means you use to create equipment, 6 months is a ****ing joke and admitting this is an absolutely atrocious PR move if true...

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Yeah pal, you just stepped into the world of the MMO working, and sh*t takes time.

Kind of funny how everyone in this thread is a self proclaimed art design student.

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Originally Posted by Synfrag

First off, am I the only one who thinks Rukkirii is cute as all hell? I'd pull the equipment set off her any day ;)

P.S. Rukkirii if you read this I meant no offense :) If you're single and interested in a long distance relationship send me a PM ;)

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Creeeeepy. Do you even know if she is a she, how old "she" is, or what "she" looks like? :P

We're talking about a team of artists taking 6 months to make a set of gear. You don't see the issue here? Fitting gear to different races is the really fast part of it.

http://www.gameartisans.org/contests...ls_1_2711.html

If his videos are any indication this took 2 months for a single person to make that from start to finish for a contest, he's currently working at Blizzard making it comparable to someone at SE.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

We're talking about a team of artists taking 6 months to make a set of gear. You don't see the issue here? Fitting gear to different races is the really fast part of it.

http://www.gameartisans.org/contests...ls_1_2711.html

If his videos are any indication this took 2 months for a single person to make that from start to finish for a contest, he's currently working at Blizzard making it comparable to someone at SE.

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Careful, someone is going to come in and say "he's doing it wrong".

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

We're talking about a team of artists taking 6 months to make a set of gear. You don't see the issue here? Fitting gear to different races is the really fast part of it.

http://www.gameartisans.org/contests...ls_1_2711.html

If his videos are any indication this took 2 months for a single person to make that from start to finish for a contest, he's currently working at Blizzard making it comparable to someone at SE.

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It should be easier then that given that making anything over and over is bound to increase efficiency. Something as simple as "guidelines" will help the concept artists and the graphic designers common ground to instantly know "what should and shouldn't be done"

Heck something as simple as texture design should be template and mapped much like photoshop professionals or manga artists that converge on a commonly used pattern stencil.

"bumpy" leather patterns, "woven cloth" pattern, etc, etc, why remake them when they already exist. It may not win awards, but it gets the job done and no-one is the wiser.

There is either a lot of novice work going on or 6months is pure BS.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

It should be easier then that given that making anything over and over is bound to increase efficiency. Something as simple as "guidelines" will help the concept artists and the graphic designers common ground to instantly know "what should and shouldn't be done"

Heck something as simple as texture design should be template and mapped much like photoshop professionals or manga artists that converge on a commonly used pattern stencil.

"bumpy" leather patterns, "woven cloth" pattern, etc, etc, why remake them when they already exist. It may not win awards, but it gets the job done and no-one is the wiser.

There is either a lot of novice work going on or 6months is pure BS.

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I think the link shows that 1 dude alone can create from scratch in 2 months. A team with an organized process, and a lot of the basics out of the way or optimized should be able to at the very least halve that. So yeah, i think the 6 months is an exaggeration or a misrepresentation

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Originally Posted by Physic

I think the link shows that 1 dude alone can create from scratch in 2 months. A team with an organized process, and a lot of the basics out of the way or optimized should be able to at the very least halve that. So yeah, i think the 6 months is an exaggeration or a misrepresentation

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For the sake of comparison then. Grand Turismo 5 interview said their car models(the really high end ones) took approx 3 months for one person to complete. This is both exterior and interior, super high resolution, with all the things like mirrors, and fuzzy dice, to steering wheel, and damage calculations, and car stats.

That should be about 10x harder then an equipment set, in the reported half the time.

I'm still waiting for proof that "pros" do it in a week.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I'm still waiting for proof that "pros" do it in a week.

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Depends on criteria, and tools. For instance. The R25 chainmail is exactly like the R22 chainmail, with shoulders and insignia, in a different color scheme. Less then a week with half decent tools. Maybe even hours.

Or having a R45 which is a R30 with shoulder guards and chest plate...assuming they didn't copy and paste that somewhere, also quite simple.

It depends what you're definition of "armor set". Just like any benchmark you can conjure up any some insane combinations that make it painstakingly time inefficient for the sake of inefficiency.

That's why there are guidelines usually enforced:
Concept artist: How about frills? I like frills
Programer : Can't do frills with this tool...maybe next version, I can rig something up
Concept artist: Ok no frills, done, here's the next set.

It's like how manga artists can pump out weekly 20page issues, when you can't even draw a page in 3 days...it's just how it is.

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Originally Posted by miqokini

"it takes about 6 months to create one full set of equipment that maintains FFXIV's high standards of graphics."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...712#post225712

Is this some kind of cruel joke, SE? Are you just mocking us with this statement?

I don't care what means you use to create equipment, 6 months is a ****ing joke and admitting this is an absolutely atrocious PR move if true...

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Yes its a joke lol in the saddest sense. Whats even more a joke is how full of life the concept artists drawings are and how mundanely the artwork is brought to life in the game. I want Final Fantasy armor not Lord of the Rings armor. MAKE SOME DAMN Final Fantasy armor. STOP USING THE SAME DRAGGED THRU THE MUD COLORS. And i just dont mean dragged thru the mud as in overused colors i mean the colors look like MUD too often. Least i got the onion doublet to afk in town in because it surely has some real color in it.

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Yes its a joke lol in the saddest sense. Whats even more a joke is how full of life the concept artists drawings are and how mundanely the artwork is brought to life in the game. I want Final Fantasy armor not Lord of the Rings armor. MAKE SOME DAMN Final Fantasy armor. STOP USING THE SAME DRAGGED THRU THE MUD COLORS. And i just dont mean dragged thru the mud as in overused colors i mean the colors look like MUD too often. Least i got the onion doublet to afk in town in because it surely has some real color in it.

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it's called nuance

I can draw a stick figure, and put clothing on it, and it takes 5 minutes

oh you want a mithra, lets add a tail and ears
oh a taru, lets make it shorter
oh a galka, lets give it a fat belly
elves? yeah lets make them taller


ok, my work is done, took me 10 minutes, thats how long it should take the 14 devs to do stuff

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It's like how manga artists can pump out weekly 20page issues, when you can't even draw a page in 3 days...it's just how it is.

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Just to let you know an manga artist needs at least 10+ chapters before they even start putting them in JUMP or anything else so what you are saying is an bad comparison. So while those 10+ chapters are being printed weekly they are making more chapters while the others are already out....

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Originally Posted by Firon

Just to let you know an manga artist needs at least 10+ chapters before they even start putting them in JUMP or anything else so what you are saying is an bad comparison. So while those 10+ chapters are being printed weekly they are making more chapters while the others are already out....

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its also easier to draw something then to do animation rendering and stuff

though if they made the whole game in stick figuriness this would all be solved easily

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

its also easier to draw something then to do animation rendering and stuff

though if they made the whole game in stick figuriness this would all be solved easily

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lol
/10char

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Yes its a joke lol in the saddest sense. Whats even more a joke is how full of life the concept artists drawings are and how mundanely the artwork is brought to life in the game. I want Final Fantasy armor not Lord of the Rings armor. MAKE SOME DAMN Final Fantasy armor. STOP USING THE SAME DRAGGED THRU THE MUD COLORS. And i just dont mean dragged thru the mud as in overused colors i mean the colors look like MUD too often. Least i got the onion doublet to afk in town in because it surely has some real color in it.

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I like the naturalistic early Renaissance to early Colonial color scheme. I feel it fits well into Yoshida's realistic and dynamic designs. The unsaturated tones give it a feeling of real world physical material, the kind that would be found in the plants and minerals found in an era predating the advent of advanced chemical engineering that would allow for the brighter and more saturated tones of today. It provides a strong continuity that reflects on the historical political feel of the world. Like Europe from the mid 1400's to the late 1600's.

It says that it takes 6 months for a new set of gear to: come up with the idea, get it passed, consider stats, design, program, make for all races etc.

It does not say that only 1 set is being worked on in those six months. Just that is how long each brand new set will usually stay in processing. This just shows the time they're willing to put into every piece.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Just to let you know an manga artist needs at least 10+ chapters before they even start putting them in JUMP or anything else so what you are saying is an bad comparison. So while those 10+ chapters are being printed weekly they are making more chapters while the others are already out....

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Actually no, they don't. SJ rarely does that especially, because well... the payment and royalty system is pretty stacked against them. Not to mention editors in certain...publishing highly go on "polls" and even have changes in story and structure on a weekly basis depending on results. (And horror stories when a publisher completely boots the author after a bad volume sales or something)

How they do is simply being good at what they do. The art is almost Warhol in how it's approached, and almost an assembly line in how it's done on schedule.

You have the writer(if different), do a story board like set up. Then the artist draws in a rough draft. Then you have assistants(some full time, some on call, some provided by the publisher) almost like a assembly line color(fill-in) clean up, and stenciled (some of them very expensive).

Most, if not all the background, shading, and various effects are in a way pre-made using rub in or CG stencils/patterns/halftones.

You're a total novice if you try to meet a deadline using hand drawn shading.

Those make what would be a 1 day job into a 1 hour job or even 5 minute job, depend on the standards.

It's much the same at most creative jobs. Whether you're doing "repeats" in Illustrator, montages in Photoshop, or editing in Avid/final cut pro...etc...etc.

There is a whole support business that cater to these, from stock art and footage, to 3rd party plug-in/programs that make those effects in 5 seconds, to customized internal tools that do it specifically for the project.

How long does it take you to build a computer? How long does it take dell?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

its also easier to draw something then to do animation rendering and stuff

though if they made the whole game in stick figuriness this would all be solved easily

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http://www.deviantart.com/download/1...ryzstof432.jpg

Stick Figure MMO FTW!
http://www7.kingdomofloathing.com/createplayer.php check out the character creation screen!

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Originally Posted by miqokini

Creeeeepy. Do you even know if she is a she, how old "she" is, or what "she" looks like? :P

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You must have missed the pictures in the post you linked in your OP "she" is the one on the right.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

http://www.deviantart.com/download/1...ryzstof432.jpg

Stick Figure MMO FTW!
http://www7.kingdomofloathing.com/createplayer.php check out the character creation screen!

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i used to do KOL back in the day
but i meant a real mmo lol

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Originally Posted by Krausus

You must have missed the pictures in the post you linked in your OP "she" is the one on the right.

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Doh. I see... ;)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

http://www.deviantart.com/download/1...ryzstof432.jpg

Stick Figure MMO FTW!
http://www7.kingdomofloathing.com/createplayer.php check out the character creation screen!

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god that made me giggle lol

It only took me 5 minutes to make 3 new subligar colors (my sig)
I demand 200 more subligar by 1.19!!!

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

It only took me 5 minutes to make 3 new subligar colors (my sig)
I demand 200 more subligar by 1.19!!!

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I would just like to say that your sig inspired my sig, which is a miqo lying down (or knocked out :P) in a bikini... But I removed it until they activate the actual event.

Hurry up SE! I want my bikini NAOW!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

It only took me 5 minutes to make 3 new subligar colors (my sig)
I demand 200 more subligar by 1.19!!!

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Don't you know FF14 is going 3D! you need to make them stereoscopic as well!

Lol @ all those "I'm an artist and I can do this with my eyes closed in 2 weeks!" Let's see some credentials, people! For all we know, you're some student or new grad making those cheap 3D commercials with terrible animation and laughable textures for DeVry or something.

It's the least you can do for calling out a company that employs some of the best artists in the world and has historically put out some of the best graphics in RPG's for their time.

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Originally Posted by Capita

Lol @ all those "I'm an artist and I can do this with my eyes closed in 2 weeks!" Let's see some credentials, people! For all we know, you're some student or new grad making those cheap 3D commercials with terrible animation and laughable textures for DeVry or something.

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For all we know they are probably not even that.