You don't have to watch any video , also don't have to say party that you 1st timer if using DF. just play way you like (i allways do things that -> I' am<- want/need/research)Quote:
Originally Posted by radioactive_lego
With PF there's different story , because you have to apply PF stated rules of party.
Blame game mechanins for that . Actually i never seen "Elitism" as it is in FFXIV , in other online games i played , even in FFXI to go fight hard battle (like even PW : which pop set take days-months to gather) no one was ask you to go watch video.
Younoob Tutorials.
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06-30-2014, 10:32 PMVladislav
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06-30-2014, 10:39 PMEcks007Not necessarily. While his videos are perhaps not exactly the best tutorials, he does try to explain boss abilities and possible strategies. The only problem is he only talks about whatever strategy that his group used, as if it's the only viable option. Most of the time I have found his videos to be of some help. Watching his videos are not going to make you good at a Primal fight, however, watching his videos and then doing the fight a few times to understand the mechanics while in play and comparing it with what you saw in the video does help to give you a bit more of an understanding of the fight and how it may go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
At least it has for me. I've certainly learned some alternative methods to a few of the primal fights that he didn't go over while doing them, and learned that on some of the fights that positioning isn't exactly like what you might have seen in the video. He just tries to be "the first" to put out that new "tutorial" on new fights. So his methods are not always perfect or optimal, nor are his explanations, though they can help you get an idea of how the fight plays out so you have a general idea of what to do (at least, as a dps, since he seems to favor Bard for everything). ((This also works well for me, personally, because I main a ranged dps job))
I don't like going into things blind with no idea what I should do or what moves a boss does because that's going to get me killed very quickly. Even knowing what to do, sometimes you are still going to die simply because you are not attempting the fight all by yourself and despite your best effort, someone else can make a mistake and possibly wipe the party if they don't know what to do. This is particularly true of tanks and healers, a bit moreso than dps since their roles have generally been extremely important in the Primal fights (particularly the EX ones) and there are less of them than dps. If one dps dies it's not completely likely that you will fail, but if one tank or healer dies and isn't immediately rez'd then... oh boy, there's going to be a problem. -
06-30-2014, 10:40 PMNero^This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
Let aside that Mr Happy is not really the "ultimate" guide. He does a lot of Tutorials, but most are just an overview and not always the best way of "how to". ( oh you actually said that as well. xD just saw after quote ) -
06-30-2014, 10:41 PMRjainSounds like an expert business decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
As for OP, if you have a problem with it, form your own party in party finder with your own specifications and don't get upset that others want to play the game differently. -
06-30-2014, 11:16 PMKallera
To be fair, there's no way to prove that people watched a video or not.
I try to ask what went wrong regardless, if that makes me a horrible person to you all, so be it. -
07-01-2014, 12:19 AMCodek
Just throwing this out there...
People who join Coil/EX fights without knowing the basics is equivalent to that tank who joins the "Turtle in a half shell" Guildhest and doesn't read the text to run the turtle to the sleeping gas...
Is it still do-able? Yes. but god is it annoying... -
07-01-2014, 12:28 AMkidvideoI agree with this statement, but from the opposing perspective. If you are the one who wants an experienced group, then you should be the one to gather other experienced players. If you are using the duty finder or duty roulette, then you should be prepared for inexperienced players.Quote:
Originally Posted by meJojo
Youtube is not part of the character level, job or item level restrictions on these instances. -
07-01-2014, 12:39 AMHirukeFFXI must have been like the only other MMO you've played then. And no one would have asked you to watch a video because every fight in FFXI can be explained in 10 seconds or less, and is substantially easier than anything in FFXIV. FFXIV has very punishing mechanics and tight dps checks. FFXI, for most content, you can have a small core group of competent people and they can carry a whole truckload of bad players. This is simply not the case for FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladislav
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07-01-2014, 12:45 AMHiruke
OP, I love your thread title. You stay classy, San Diego.
Long story short:
Expect awfulness in DF. Period. It's not even worth discussing how people behave in there, because you'll get people who not only don't know the fight, but are INCAPABLE of learning, such as healers who simply do not understand that maybe standing on top of the dps and pushing everyone into Ifrit with Searing Wind is maybe a bad idea. Not only will they continue to do this infinitely, they will yell at YOU for dying to the Eruptions that THEY sent you careening into. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY. (This, btw, is way more problematic than people saying "yo go watch a video".)
Similarly, expect jerks in DF. Get over it. If you don't want the lolz, don't join DF. That goes for pros and noobs alike. That's just life.
I think the REAL problem is when people who have no clue join PF parties that REQUIRE that you be experienced. These people try to sneak in all the time. You've seen them. Drowning in Leviathan, killing the BLM in Mog EX without denting the other moogles, getting hit by every Weight and Landslide in Titan EX... Weekly clear party? Must be experienced!? TIME TO SNEAK IN AND HOPE FOR A CARRY.
Or maybe go back to DF, or only join learning PTs. If you think "elitists" are bad for the game, imagine how those "elitists" feel about all the scrubs who sneak into "experienced only" parties and play like they bought their account all of 10 minutes ago. -
07-01-2014, 12:56 AMKalleraSeeing as how the majority of PF entries by weekend are chock full of "FARMABLE, MUST HAVE MULTI CLEARS, FIRST TRY, KICK IF YOU CANT STAND IN YELLOW" and other such gems. I'm not going to waste my sympathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruke
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07-01-2014, 01:03 AMAlipoprocks
I guess I must be one of the bads. Because besides Garuda, I have never beaten any endgame content my first try even after watching every video I could find and reading any information available. I have had to practice everything many times before beating it.
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07-01-2014, 01:07 AMAnaviAnaelYou and me both. Let us go for margaritas and be losers together!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alipoprocks
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07-01-2014, 01:28 AMNeroI know right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alipoprocks
But yeah, let the people stay with their delusional assumption that watching a video means that people can win more/faster, than someone who does "learning by doing". xD -
07-01-2014, 01:42 AMNel_Celestine
Last time I checked, Youtube Tutorials we not connected to the game itself as in plays them before loading the dungeon. So my guess is that no, they are not required. They can be helpful and that's a good thing. But I've been finding it all to often that players have been expecting everyone to watch several guides and be fully experienced on fights anywhere from 3hr to a day after they are released. That's rather unacceptable that there is such a small 'grace' period for actually playing and learning the fight with the community before the negative wall of 'perfection or GTFO' is dropped.
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07-03-2014, 12:38 AMEekikiLazy/bad players are still going to be lazy and bad regardless of how many videos they've watched or how many times the fight is explained to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by necrosis
Long rant incoming:
Case in point: I went into Turn 6 for the first time. I didn't watch any videos (still haven't). Along with me was another person who was also going in for the first time, but this person watched Myzztec's video. With each wipe, I learned something new. I learned how briars worked. I learned how to avoid devours. I learned what to do when I got honeyed. I made progress. The person who watched the video? They were lost. Even though they watched a video, they still had to have everything explained to them a couple different ways, and they still had trouble. "That's different than the video," was said many times. Watching a video did not save the group any time, and it did not help this person learn anything about the fight.
The most fun I ever had playing this game, hands down, was the first time beating Ifrit hard mode back in 1.19 (at the time the most difficult fight in the game). Now, if you never had a chance to play 1.x, I can tell you -- and I'm sure everyone that did play it will agree with me -- that Ifrit hard mode today is a complete joke compared to 1.19...borderline insulting. My group didn't watch any videos. There weren't any videos. We worked at it every night for almost a week. With every wipe we got a little closer or learned something new, and every now and then we'd get him down to 2 or 3 percent health before wiping. Then we finally won. One of the group had recorded it on his Twitch stream, and I wish I could find where it was so you could hear our reactions on Ventrilo when we finished him off. It was frustrating, torturous even, but the payoff in the end was incredible. We rode that high for days, and it still makes me smile when I think about it. A meaningless accomplishment in a silly video game two years ago still brings me joy.
That's why I won't watch videos. And, no, I'm not going to put up a new learning party in the party finder if someone else already has a learning PT forming with a spot I can fit into. That is a waste of time. -
07-03-2014, 01:12 AMZantetsukenYou watch battles on youtube, mimic it perfectly in-game, and are rewarded with gear that does nothing but allow you to repeat the same process with another battle and another youtube video.Quote:
Originally Posted by radioactive_lego
wash, rinse, repeat...
Considering that the content is scripted and predictable, and the rewards are mere unlocks for more scripted and predictable content, you can experience 99% of the game in YouTube for free.
Under the current game design, SE should really ban all ARR YouTube videos -- if just to make the monthly subscription actually provide value. -
07-03-2014, 01:24 AMCyrus-Wallace
IMO: People are just misunderstanding the multiple purpose of the video tutorials. Watching a video helps you to know the mechanics involved in the battle. It doesn't make you win, it makes things easier to understand and learn. You can manage the strat with your party as you please, but you know what's going to happen when the boss reaches, for example, 50% of his HP or what X mechanic does if you do Y or Z. If there's a party asking for people to watch a video first and you don't want to, then don't join them.
I DID watch a lot of video tutorials for T9. I also watched win videos, practice videos, I read about their mechanics and strats. Sadly, my static doesn't have much time for practice, and having people that knows the whole thing or its mechanics help with the whole process. I encourage my group to watch a video. It's not mandatory but it's really useful. -
07-03-2014, 01:31 AMTraek
Not sure why this always comes up as a subject. If you don't want to watch videos, go make a PF of like minded individuals, and learn the fight together through experience. It is also very beneficial to join an FC or LS with like minded individuals who will do content with you on a consistent basis, so that you can make progress.
If you don't want people who have no idea of the fight or haven't watched a video, then also make a PF for like minded individuals. Also, joining an FC or LS with like minded individuals to raid with on a consistent basis is very beneficial to making consistent progress.
If you join a DF, you are flipping a coin. Don't expect anything from either side, there are jerks and terribads on both side of the camp, as well as competent helpful people on both sides.
How about both sides give some mutual respect and take steps to both not go in over your head, and not be a condescending dick bag. It'll go a long way to improve relations in this game. Also, just because one douche might have been a douche, doesn't mean the whole community is, and they are very easily blacklisted and ignored. Please exercise this right! -
07-03-2014, 01:34 AMSonofbaldo
It is because the vast majority of gamers are cry babies. These gamers learned well over a decade ago that if you cry enough, you will get your way. Especially when it comes to SE who will nerf anything you wish if you find it too difficult. So when you match cry babies with a company bending to their every whim...this is the kind of gamers you end up with. Sadly, there are more of them than you.
Every single person who says you should learn how to do a fight before ever entering the fight is one of those cry babies. They'll deny it. They'll refuse. They'll try to flip it back on you somehow to convince themselves they aren't cry babies. But they are cry babies, and they are why video games are so insanely easy. And when they arent easy, they'll make such a stink that the company will make them easy just to stop them from crying. Look no further than XI. -
07-03-2014, 01:35 AMEhayte
Are those people not watching YouTube videos also refusing to take any advice from other players?
i.e.
Player_01 >> OK, so in this next phase here, Mob_01 is going to . . .
Non-video_watcher >> STOP TYPING RIGHT NOW OR I AM GOING TO SCREAM!!!
Having someone explain the fight to you is about equivocal to watching a video, except for the fact that it is actively using someone else's time, where is watching a video only uses your time.
If that's the case, all the more power to you. If I thought it was realistic for me to efficiently learn-by-doing in all fights, I totally would do it. I really don't have the time to do that though, and I respect the time of the other people doing the fights that have already learned or had the fight explained to them enough to watch a video so that Mr Happy or whomever else can explain the basic principals to me. -
07-03-2014, 01:37 AMMoheeheekoI hear ya, months and months and im STILL stuck on t6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alipoprocks
Then again that could be from other factors but im usually very self critical >_> -
07-03-2014, 01:37 AMRexWhoa whoa whoa. Calm yourself now. He's doing nothing wrong, and his guides are perfectly fine. Don't know where the hell you're getting that from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
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07-03-2014, 01:39 AMMoheeheekoMost of his strats are the worst for new players, When coil 1 was still super new he said you didn't need to feed before the split on cad. Granted now it works fine but with a group in mostly i70 gear that's nearly impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex
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07-03-2014, 01:41 AMClavaatHonestly, this is how I handle it with my group. We understand that knowing the fight is not the end-all be-all. There are random mechanics that can affect one or several members: T5 conflags, T6 honey and thorns, etc. You can understand what that mechanic is, and how it works, but executing it is a whole different monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace
That being said... I totally respect that other people do not want to do it that way. I like going in blind to the new 4-man dungeons and learning as we go along. I can see why people would like to do that with the big ones. There's an important understanding you all should be having:
1. Players who like to research beforehand are not all hardcore elitist. Often, they just want to feel prepared, or like being able to delegate roles beforehand.
2. Players who do not like to research beforehand are not all casual noobs. They just want to experience the fight firsthand, and adapt from what they learn, not what another player has told them.
I think most people are right in the middle-ground. They either prefer one or the other, but don't really expect it from other players. I could be wrong in this assumption, but that's what I've noticed. I research as we progress through SCoB, but I also write up my own guides, that specifically lay out what we did at each part, how we handled it, regardless of what a video or guide has told us. You have to find what works for you and yours.
His guides are pretty bad, honestly. He continually treats the way he handles fights as the right way. More often than not, his group Brute Forces their way through fights, and that only really works if you are completely up to date on gear all the time. Not to mention, he doesn't update previous guides, so the information gets out of date quickly. I don't follow any specific player for information, I cross-reference a few to get a good idea of what is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex
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07-03-2014, 02:01 AMEekikiRiiight. I'm totally sure that happens all the time. >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
Or is it more like:
Non-video_watcher >> Hi guys, this is my first try at this fight.
Player_01 >> OMG u noob did u at leest watch a video?
Non-video_watcher >> No...but this is T6 and I've made it this far without watching videos. I'm pretty good at picking up mechanics as I go along.
Player_01 >> OMG U NEED 2 WATCH A VIDEO OR WE'LL WIPE LOLOLOL
Non-video_watcher >> But this is a learning PT. We're going to wipe anyway. What learning PT has ever cleared something without wiping at least once?
Player_01 has rage quit. -
07-03-2014, 02:50 AMClavaatBoth scenarios are possible from the different viewpoints. Whether one is more likely or not is irrelevant, the point should be that you respect both and either don't say anything or adapt to the others. Neither of those situations are handled well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
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07-03-2014, 03:23 AMShinkuTachiAgreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
Watching a video is good for nothing more than preparation and giving a player an idea of what to expect in a fight. That's really it. It certainly does not replace the hands-on experience you obtain through actually practicing, doing the fight, and group dynamic.
But for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM -
07-03-2014, 03:31 AMShori
I've been on both sides of this fence, as a newb and as an experienced player who just wants to collect the soldiery as quick as possible.
I find the happy medium that I'm comfortable with is - Just find a written guide or description of the dungeon or trial you are about to enter. It is enough - even for Titan Ext - to just know what attacks are coming up and how to avoid/interupt them. I dont expect someone to watch a half-hour long video on titan (which if is from MR Happy, would likely be the wrong class/job for you anyway since bard has far less to worry about).
With the very simple knowledge gained from a quick skim thru you shouldnt have any problems picking up the fight after just 1 or 2 tries, which gets your party a buff anyway :) -
07-03-2014, 04:02 AMA_Magical_Unicorn_Rider
The only thing I don't like about mrhappy's vids are that they are from a Bard's perspective. And that, to me, is quite honestly the laziest "job" this game has to offer. It almost feels like it was meant to be a support-only role, but then at the last minute they just decided, "Hey, we'll give it some attacks too and it can be a DPS."
This is all from experience of playing with Bards and trying to level one myself. It just really feels like such a lazy job. I don't like attacking while fleeing, I wanna be up in dat ass ;)
That aside, yes pre-watching vids gives you at least some semblance of what's to come in a fight. It's not TOO much of a help, but it does give you an idea of how to maneuver in an arena/dungeon, especially if you have experienced players in said fight along with new players. Take for example: I did Ifrit EX about two days ago going in completely blind. Didn't know about the chain mechanic, but I never once wiped because of it, or the debuff from the nails. The healers, however, were basically the cause (okay, it was more like one healer) of the wipes we had. He'd never done EX, but we still got through it after 4 wipes. He'd never watched a video beforehand, but after that many deaths, he picked up on the strategy for the fight. Had he watched a vid beforehand he might've had SOME idea of what was to come.
Alas, we won and that's all that really matters to me. Vin Diesel said it best:
"It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch… or a mile. Winning is winning." -
07-03-2014, 04:03 AMabzoluut
What's the difference between you joining the fight and have people tell you what to do and watching a vid?
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07-03-2014, 04:20 AMNoshpan
I don't mind going in blind, but I'll watch one of Mizztek's (MTQcapture on Youtube) videos as they're short, sweet, to the point and loaded with puns. She will even point out when she messes up (that Titan HM blooper video was hilarious). But I use these videos to give me an idea of what to expect from the dungeon and boss encounters. Nothing truly beats personal experience (and practice!) to figure out what's personally best for you.
I find Mr Happy's videos to be a tad on the boring side. -
07-03-2014, 04:28 AMMoheeheekoabout 45 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
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07-03-2014, 04:43 AMabzoluutThen don't watch a 45min vid. Rather strange to you watch an hour vid for ~12 min fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moheeheeko
Since you seem to miss my point: OP is not going in blind if there are people in the group that already know it after watching the vid and then telling him what to do. It all boils down to the same. -
07-03-2014, 04:48 AMXellos2099On the otherhand, what do you call a player that join that pf that require prior win on thw first day of the reset?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
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07-03-2014, 05:22 AMElurra
I'll give short instructions to new players (kill adds, interrupt this ability, etc) and get more specific if there are problems. See what the new players can figure out intuitively before going too deep into explanations.
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07-03-2014, 05:48 AMCyrus-Wallace
The way it works is reasonable when you're trying to do endgame content. For example, if you try to do things like T5 or the second Coil (specially turn 9), watching a video helps a lot. Why? because there're not "simple mechanics" were "simple instructions" just don't exist. There're a lot of things going on and you have to pay attention most of the time. You have to be a bit realistic here: Not everybody want to spare their time teaching you something you can learn all by yourself. If we live in a "perfect happy world", threads like this wouldn't exist, because people will gladly help you to learn the content instead of watching a video. Sadly, we won't change anything.
The whole rant is meaningless, because, in the end, you can use the PF and ask for a learning party where watching a video is totally optional... and there'll be people asking for the opposite. You can see that by yourself reading this thread. No one will change their mindset because some people don't like to watch a video... or, again, the opposite. -
07-03-2014, 06:00 AMEhayteSo... the difference is that you are making a characture out of players that we all know or stupid and are toxic for the community just to bash them. People like that are always going to find ways to be jerks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
What I was doing was trying to point out the fact that watching a video and having the fight explained to you is similar, and that it would be hypocritical of you to say "I NEVER watch videos so I am bomb! OK, explain this fight my man!"
'sall I was sayin' - if you are a person who asks for people NOT to explain the fight and don't watch videos, and you do as well or better than people who have the fight explained to them or have watched videos, congratulations - you are better at a video game than them. That was not sarcasm, you really are.
But no one cares. -
07-03-2014, 06:35 AMOrophin
I'd prefer not to watch a video if possible, but I don't want to be the guy holding back my raid group on account of that. I'll usually go in blind for a few attempts and then research less obvious elements of a fight. I've never been in a position where I'm attempting content at the same pace of the pioneers that are running it, so information has always been at my disposal as I'm attempting it.
For what it's worth I was able to clear every dungeon up through the end of the original main story with little to no issue without having to look up anything. Aurum Vale was probably the most challenging dungeon I did followed by Cutter's Cry, neither of which was required for the main storyline. A little trial and error doesn't hurt, but some people just aren't very patient. -
07-03-2014, 06:47 AMShinkuTachiAgreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
The only fights I've ever watched videos for are T5 and Moogle Mog. The only fights I didn't win during my first run are T5, T6, and Levi EX. Flying by the seat of your pants and learning on the fly isn't exactly impossible. -
07-03-2014, 07:55 AMKuskoo
I for one go in blind, the instant i see a PF or whatever telling me to "watch a video"- NOPE, i for one pick up faster in game than a video so yippers on my own part.
I for one hate learning parties saying to watch a video before hand i mean really? that's a semi learning cause you're going with some knowledge right?.
so kudos to you OP i like your playing style.