Why can't people dodge?

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

Because not everyone has good reflexes. Take Thorn march Extreme for an example, when you have to dodge the meteor circle on the floor and staying out of the middle when the time comes. It's just too harsh on reflexes...

I call for the over all toning down of all EXTREME/HARD content to ease the frustration of DF players due to not very good reflexes.

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Not everything needs to be doable by everybody. I think they've struck a good balance by making the content fairly challenging, but making it totally optional. You don't have to do the EX primals for anything; it doesn't gate the main scenario or anything. It's just for some minor bonus loot that's worse than what you can get in Coil.

I have been able to move to the side of Titan when he's doing landslide and pull off bootshine+twin snakes before Titan finishes LS and I still get hit by it 80% of the time, so I don't know what causes it but when the tank has him in the center I'm almost always F'd.

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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On that same note..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u2i...ature=youtu.be This is quite funny, and yet sad, all at the same time

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

On that same note..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u2i...ature=youtu.be This is quite funny, and yet sad, all at the same time

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LMAO, OMG that was too funny!

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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Pretty much this... and although I have not gotten insta-killed... I have only had these issues since updating. I guess you could blame my internet... even though it's never been a problem before... nor is it an issue in other games... whatever. Don't care - guess I just won't play until it works.

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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That's exactly what it's like! Even worse sometimes. I know I can dodge them, it's not that hard... with no lag.

computer/console's rendering time + reaction time + ping mms (latency). Together, there is probably an 50-50 chance of dodging it alright. Being in the same country/continent of the server certainly helps but its not the player's fault if they are in europe or middle east or africa.

for anyone playing Monk, you NEED to be using fists of wind on your first run which will help you get of the way quicker. Once you're comfortable with patterns and predicting where an AoE will land - then switch to fists of Fire :)
^ probably teaching the forum-goers to suck eggs here but I saw many in DF who use fists of earth (use it for solo only as its no where near enough protection against the game's intentional 1-hit KOs!)

oh also - running much farther than you need to can help if you have the opportunity to. in many fights you can predict in advance where an AoE will land, which is particularly useful for casters.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

On that same note..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u2i...ature=youtu.be This is quite funny, and yet sad, all at the same time

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That was fun and painful to watch at the same time!

They do not know the 5 D's of dodgeball.

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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That's an old gif. They've done a lot of improvements to server synchronization since then.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

That's an old gif. They've done a lot of improvements to server synchronization since then.

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The Gif is old, the .1 fix helped, but it still happens sometimes. :/

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The Gif is old, the .1 fix helped, but it still happens sometimes. :/

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But people blame on it EVERY TIME they can't dodge. :)

I don't doubt there are some unfortunate people with horrible lag and it's not always their fault. But you guys are few and far in between. The reality is, most people are just bad and blame lag for everything.

Having your toe in the landslide and getting caught in it = lag
not knowing where to move for bombs and following others and dying = lag
taking a second or two before realizing a weight is below and you die = lag

Gets real old.

Seeing all the latest posts, there was enough explanation to the non-lag believers to keep saying "That's not possible". Either people are not bothering to read everything that was posted previously or they just post whatever without thinking out of the box.

Someone once proposed this and I'll type for the lolz of whoever wanna try. Go make a char in the Japanese servers, level up your toon and face Titan EX there WITHOUT using a program such as WTFast. Get the results then post in this thread if your opinion stays the same. :p

I just find absurd this line of thought "It's not happening to me and some of my folks so it surely isn't happening anywhere else in the world".

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

you say this as though everyone has a choice here. sorry but not everyone can get it fixed. lots of people live in areas where they are stuck with what they have. others log in from countries afar with no choice but crappy latancy.
deal with it<---see this. its basically the same as what you said to those who have the lag issues. not the same meaning but the same implications

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Mainly what I'm staying is I think a lot of it is people fucking up and not understanding what happened and blaming lag when it was their fault or understanding of what they did wrong. So they just say wow that was lag or wow that's so laggy I was totally out of that. You need to deal with how the game works. And if some people just have bad internet that's still not SEs fault. What do you want them to do, build a new SE based internet infrastructure around the world so everyone can have good internet to play 14?

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I don't doubt there are some unfortunate people with horrible lag and it's not always their fault. But you guys are few and far in between. The reality is, most people are just bad and blame lag for everything.

Having your toe in the landslide and getting caught in it = lag
not knowing where to move for bombs and following others and dying = lag
taking a second or two before realizing a weight is below and you die = lag

Gets real old.

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It's just hard to tell who's really giving excuses from who's having internet issues. As for the "not knowing where to move", some guides can help if anyone in this thread know the fight untill a certain part but not "everything".

A lot love Mrhappy videos, myself I follow MTQcapture. If anyone want to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR3aPDe5fcI - it may help.

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Originally Posted by F3rd1nand

I just find absurd this line of thought "It's not happening to me and some of my folks so it surely isn't happening anywhere else in the world".

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Noone said that it's not happening, but I can assure you it's not happening as much as you people say. I can play on any servers and not have any problems with lag. I just admit that I suck.

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Originally Posted by Makado

I cleared Titan HM and T1-5 before 2.2 on ps3. Also clear titan ex and hm daily usually even during these lag times on ps4. Also someone mentioned if its server lag then everyone has it. So how can some people do it and some not? I have played with people all over who can do these fights just fine as well.

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It's not quite server lag, if you run a trace route during lag, you'll notice you may be getting directed to a wrong place, i.e. 1 hop to Canada then the next hop into Kansas, it's how traffic is being handled, lag usually for me happens during peak eastern times. The weirdness starts when it hits Canada, I live in NY, and have had up to 3 second lag to near freezing up, it's not a graphics issue I run at 70 fps on the highest settings possible, it's a traffic issue.

I take you question and raise it...

What's worst that people who can't dodge?
People that break/dot you out of gaol at exactly the same time a landslide is coming your way...

Well... my newfound lag has been accompanied by marvelous instances of freezing and then fast-forwarding 10-15 seconds along with disconnect errors.... so, you can say it's just me - that's fine. I'm not playing anyway until it's fixed or my sub runs out. So, I definitely won't be someone that DF groups will be seeing eating AEs repeatedly in the DF.

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

It's not quite server lag, if you run a trace route during lag, you'll notice you may be getting directed to a wrong place, i.e. 1 hop to Canada then the next hop into Kansas, it's how traffic is being handled, lag usually for me happens during peak eastern times. The weirdness starts when it hits Canada, I live in NY, and have had up to 3 second lag to near freezing up, it's not a graphics issue I run at 70 fps on the highest settings possible, it's a traffic issue.

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So wouldn't that be something you call your own ISP about? And tell them your information is being sent wrong or something?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Noone said that it's not happening, but I can assure you it's not happening as much as you people say. I can play on any servers and not have any problems with lag. I just admit that I suck.

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I also admit it's my fault if I died for any reasons that weren't lag. But one situation, for example, that was frustrating.. I went as MNK and did fine dodging all landslides and plumes, but unfortunately a few of our dps and healers kept dying over and over on plumes (perhaps they were lagging), I didn't got mad over it, but 8 wipes later, I was the one starting to have latency issues. Each group stack on Titan's butt = death on me, because the plumes I could dodge just fine earlier, were unavoidable then. ):

I don't have any problems dodging things outside of Titan Ex. I hate to try and blame it on lag but even when I'm outside of the radius of plumes I get hit sometimes. It's annoying.

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Originally Posted by Vallug

Been grinding titan..I know it is DF but cmon..when many of the DPS have 100 level gear I expect them to be goodish..but so many times it comes down to me being the only dps alive..and we turtle along until I kill it. Why are people so bad at dodging ;_; titan HM isnt even hard.

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HA! Wait till you try titan ex through DF, it'll make you want to swallow a bullet. Now excuse me gentlemen, I have a bullet to take.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

That's an old gif. They've done a lot of improvements to server synchronization since then.

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Even if some improvements have been fixed, look at the video posted directly under mine where its current.
Ya...Don't seem that improved to me.

Honestly,

SE should remove any fight that's this notorious from the progression ladder so that it's not so stressful.

Titan EX really should be switched with Ifrit EX if they insist on it being a gateway.

I constantly get excuses about Lag all the time and if the network is truly this bad, it's really just not fair to have this fight bar you from additional content in any way.

I personally experience no issue fighting titan, I am never hit but I constantly get in parties that can't make it passed Phase 1 using Party Finder.

I've played a lot of games in the last ten years, and all of them have had some degree of "don't stand in bad". This game, however, is the first one where it feels like you have to anticipate it in order to get out fast enough. Sometimes the stars align and the system registers your movement properly. Sometimes I'm halfway across the screen from where one of these mechanics graphics hit and I still get smacked with it. At some point I came to terms with the reality that it really isn't just me. I've done hard raiding content in WoW and Rift and never have I experienced the kind of "lag" seen in this game.

I'll even go so far as to say there's far too much of it. Every other cast you have to dodge "something" and it feels like in a lot of fights SE just couldn't come up with any other ways to make them challenging so they added more "gtfo bad".

There is some combination of

1. the mechanics aren't tuned properly and don't give enough real reaction time
2. the character movement speed needs to be taken up a notch so can dodge better
3. fewer "don't stand in bad" mechanics and more clever strategy-based methods of checking player skill
4. more improvements still needed to latency of the UI client
5. The mechanics need to do a better "where is the player" check before the damage is distributed. Some of them really feel like they hit based on where you were 1 second after the graphic was shown, not 1 second before the attack actually hit. This could be lag, but if it is they really need to find a better way to use bandwidth. No other game has complaints like I see here about not being able to dodge things because of "lag" (and "lag" is the universal answer even given in this thread. I have news: "lag" in this context seems to be wholly unique to Eorzea).

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

Honestly,

SE should remove any fight that's this notorious from the progression ladder so that it's not so stressful.

Titan EX really should be switched with Ifrit EX if they insist on it being a gateway.

I constantly get excuses about Lag all the time and if the network is truly this bad, it's really just not fair to have this fight bar you from additional content in any way.

I personally experience no issue fighting titan, I am never hit but I constantly get in parties that can't make it passed Phase 1 using Party Finder.

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They are already removing it. 2.3 will no longer have this as a requirement for Leviathan and Yoshi said yesterday in E3 that we can safely throw away our Rowena tokens because they have no immediate plans for them.

No one in their right mind is going to waste any effort into finishing this fight ever again. The earrings are pointless, it's just i90 junk which you can just buy with myths or get in Coil with less trouble and the i90 weapons you get for the completing the triad are a waste of time if you can just hop into Leviathan and get your shiny i95. Any new player will get their Relic first, any old player will simply farm leviathan or do the Relic quest again.

RIP Titan Extreme.

On another note about the lagging people:

If you lag on Titan, you lag everywhere. You may not notice it well because in most of the game you can get carried through (your healer will heal through the AoE you ate) or the dodge checks are simply not demanding.

Anyone that is lagging to the point where you can honestly say you were outside and you still got hit needs to stop asking SE for easier content and instead take a good look at what is actually causing the problem. Wireless, Naggle being turned on, someone else in the household streaming or otherwise, etc.

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Originally Posted by Iriadysa

Anyone that is lagging to the point where you can honestly say you were outside and you still got hit needs to stop asking SE for easier content and instead take a good look at what is actually causing the problem. Wireless, Naggle being turned on, someone else in the household streaming or otherwise, etc.

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Oh sure, people who have never had issues on other games, EVER, just have crappy connections and it's totally their fault or someone streaming.

It's not. This is a widespread, systematic complaint of "lag", and it's being used to redirect responsibility to the user instead of where it belongs: on SE. If I hadn't been here to see the travesty that was 1.0, I would probably have the same attitude you do. But I saw it. They still have some disconnect between what belongs on "server" and what belongs on "client" and how best to marry the two.

When I have the same issues on my work FIOS over the weekend that I have at home with my 15meg over cable connection at home - neither of which I'm wirelessly connecting through - the issue isn't just user needs to stop watching netflix.

I'm not asking for easier content. I'm actually asking for HARDER content, but harder in a way that makes sense. More light spots on the floor to run out of just for the sake of artificially inflating difficulty in the form of cast interrupts is a terrible way to build an encounter. Give me an Akylios style fight over this "run run run!" any day. Fewer things that depend on the stars aligning between my computer and their server, and more that challenges our ability to figure out and manage a boss and his or her adds as a TEAM.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Oh sure, people who have never had issues on other games, EVER, just have crappy connections and it's totally their fault or someone streaming.

It's not. This is a widespread, systematic complaint of "lag", and it's being used to redirect responsibility to the user instead of where it belongs: on SE. If I hadn't been here to see the travesty that was 1.0, I would probably have the same attitude you do. But I saw it. They still have some disconnect between what belongs on "server" and what belongs on "client" and how best to marry the two.

When I have the same issues on my work FIOS over the weekend that I have at home with my 15meg over cable connection at home - neither of which I'm wirelessly connecting through - the issue isn't just user needs to stop watching netflix.

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You either have a problem with the route to the server or with your network configuration on both places you claim to have problems with.
It cannot be a matter of server / client architecture when it works fine for (probably) most people, including people on poor connections with very low SNR like mine (a very bad DSL connection, really far from the station).

Have you tried services like WTFast or Battleping? If that solves your problem, then the problem clearly lies on the route and, if you are very lucky, your ISP may be able to help with that. If that doesn't solve it, you should check on your network settings for clues on what could be causing this anomaly.

I'm not going to say their server/client architecture is flawless, but it's quite obvious that it works. The discrepancy you and others claim to have cannot be attributed simply to that or the problem would be more widespread than it is right now.

Seriously, check your Naggle. Its the least thing you can do.

I think cause people can't afford good graphics cards, some still use GT geforce instead of a gtx card, which slows reaction time down, I should know I have a fast connection and had a gt card I kept getting hit.

I upgraded to a gtx and have zero issues now.

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Originally Posted by Makado

So wouldn't that be something you call your own ISP about? And tell them your information is being sent wrong or something?

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I don't think you understand how the internet works. your ISP has no control of hops outside of its own infrastructure. the moment you hit that first hop outside it becomes the problem of whatever infrastructure you hit. but it doesnt stop there. you can effectivally because of how the internet works hit 1000 hops before you reach your target and nobody can do anything about it because the internet is working as intended. each hop has 2 modes stop or pass, if stop is hit your connection gets routed to another hop backwards. if pass is hit it goes through to another hop forwards. they call it a web because it basically is, there are no straight routes anywhere on the internet.
a workaround like a VPN can help but those aren't flawless either.

my point here is this game is far too unforgiving for how the internet is structured.
so yeah lag might seem like an excuse to some of you but its legit for many of the people using it.
somehow I doubt everyone using that excuse is telling the truth though

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I think cause people can't afford good graphics cards, some still use GT geforce instead of a gtx card, which slows reaction time down, I should know I have a fast connection and had a gt card I kept getting hit.

I upgraded to a gtx and have zero issues now.

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not just graphics cards/chipsets. after some research I found out not all displays(external monitors/TV sets not built in laptop displays) show things fast enough for unforgiving gaming either. many HDTV sets are like that and some digital monitors as well.

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take it as a different stance. some people don't care to memorize fights like Titan because they never intend to do it again after they win it.
they don't see the value of the rewards vs the stress of learning the fight.
therefore since they have not memorized it they have to rely on fast decisions that are infact effected by lag and or latancy.

The game's netcode is most likely optimized for smaller regions with shorter hops, a lot of Asian games suffer from this, it works fine for their domestic connections but not so much for larger international regions. That on top on how the game calculates damage and doesn't seem to have enough server prediction, and also simply because of how the game is designed around fast sometimes almost split second reaction mechanics and assumes everyone has fast internet speed with fast and flawless communication between nodes to deal with these mechanics just adds to the issues a lot of people experience. No, I have no idea how the code actually works but yes I'm comfy in my armchair, thank you.

Lag is no excuse. Of all the times I've ever run titan story/hm/ex(still to find a competent group for ex) I've only been hit by landslide once. ONCE, and that was my first time playing titan, in story, as mnk. Admittedly I'm running sch now, but still, never hit by a 2nd ls, and I'm usually ether dead because Dps take too long on jails, or someone fuck up and half the team gets wiped/shot of the edge. There have been times I've seen Dps suck so bad that I give up reviving them because I've had too any times that I've seen Dps revive and walk right into a hit to die again. I've also seen tanks screw up and get shot off the edge.


I will say my most entertaining moment was a sc revive on a Dps, revived in the red zone as titan broke the ground and the Dps finished raising, only to fall to his death XD

People can't dodge because some attacks are way too unforgiving with the amount of time they give you to dodge them.

That, and lag, whether it's connection or system related.

Well then, this thread exploded more than I thought it would when I made it o.o
OK so I can understand if people have crappy connections and all that, though the one thing I have to agree with 100% is tanks should have an idea of what to do when they queue. On Garuda HM..got two tanks who had no idea what they were supposed to do and RAN IN without getting any help. I stuck with it awhile but left eventually after someone else did. As a DPS I do not always read up on anything because I adapt quickly to fights, I am good at it so I do not always feel the need. If I do think I need some info I do google it because I do not wanna be a burden.

Totally read this as "Why can't people doge?"

I need to go to bed. Much tired. x.x

The fight as a whole was just a bad idea but I think alot of the endgame fights are just bad. Its just the same scripted thing over and over again. Whats fun about mashing buttons as fast as we can repeatedly so we do the most possible damage? It's been done, move on and create something better and something that you can actually say belongs in an mmoRPG because what we have is crap.

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Originally Posted by Vallug

Been grinding titan..I know it is DF but cmon..when many of the DPS have 100 level gear I expect them to be goodish..but so many times it comes down to me being the only dps alive..and we turtle along until I kill it. Why are people so bad at dodging ;_; titan HM isnt even hard.

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Wearing i100 Gear means nothing, because that´s the Gear sold for those Tomes you get by beating a Dungeon done in 12 Minutes ;-)

Look out for People with High Allagan Gear, or Leviathan Weapons, so they at least got past Titan EX one time... (or you aks them whom they paid for) ^^