List of rarely used abilities for the benefit of SE

Pretty sure the only thing this thread has highlighted for SE is how bad some of the players are.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Another wonderful case of you not knowing what you're talking about.
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Also, I have no idea why you would be using Energy Drain unless you simply want the extra damage. Energy Drain provides a whopping 130-150 mp. [...] Swapping to Cleric Stance will double the mp restored, but, even then, you're still just breaking even (but still consuming the GCD). If you are using Energy Drain for the mp, you're doing it wrong. Lustrate is more cost effective because it heals twice as much for the same cost (and doesn't consume the GCD to do so). The only thing that Energy Drain is good for is a tiny bit of damage (which you'd actually get more out of using the GCD that Lustrate isn't consuming by throwing out a Bio).

If you want to talk about an ability that needs to be buffed, you should be talking about Energy Drain.

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Funny.

You blame the OP that he doesnt know, what he's talking about and then doing exactly the same. Energy drain gives always 266 mp no matter, if in cleric or not. And this is a lot, if u have an aether stack left, when aetherflow is ready. Using it for the dmg is rediculous...

If you want to talk about an ability that is useless, you should play this class first.

I love using scathe (often gets me the kill :P) and lethargy in pvp. They're far from useless. Lethargy in T5 is also awesome.

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Originally Posted by Ryihito

Is Mantra rarely used?

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From what I've seen I use this skill as Bard more than Monks actually do... Also I've seen other Bards use it constantly..

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Originally Posted by Limecat

Granted these aren't unused abilities, but there are two main things I'd like to see changed. Remove Haymaker from the GCD. It's meant as a counter-attack, kind of defeats the purpose when you have to take a time out from your rotation for a slow that may or may not be useful anymore depending on whether other people have been applying slows. Failing that, increase the power on it from 170 to 220-250.

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I totally agree..

Seeing people saying that the different 'Fists' stances as Monk are useless makes me question their skills as a monk. I don't even main Monk and I'm always stance-dancing in various fights. Leviathan is probably the best example: Fists of Wind for dashes and getting out of AOE's and Fists of Earth for his unavoidable AOE Ultimates. As long as you remember to switch back to Fire for DPSing (usually do it during the slide down the boat) you're not affecting your DPS in any way.

And I always use Mantra for Ultimates and unavoidable AOE's.

Totally agree with One Ilm Punch and Tri-Disaster though. Only time I've ever used One Ilm Punch is when I was helping a friend duo the Four Winds FATE for his book, so that I could keep removing the Stoneskin from one of the bosses.

Tri-Disaster I used once to see the pretty animation and then took it off my bars XD

Presence of Mind is not useless... Try to combine it with Holy spam.... Tons of fast dmg to limitless amount of mobs in a short time. Good to eliminate a group of mid mobs in seconds while stunning shower them.

I didn't play much of the other jobs, but gotta say that for WHM, really, every single skill is useful.

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Originally Posted by Hivernica

I love using scathe (often gets me the kill :P) and lethargy in pvp. They're far from useless. Lethargy in T5 is also awesome.

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They shouldn't be giving us PvP skills in PvE though. If they want PvP skills then make it unique for that. I don't want to be leveling and be given a nearly useless ability. Sure I'll toss it out on cooldown if I remember but its really not a very good ability in any PvE content. Even in T5, Blizzard is better in Heavy potency and duration with the only disadvantage being a cast time.

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Originally Posted by KingAhmoseTheFirst

From what I've seen I use this skill as Bard more than Monks actually do... Also I've seen other Bards use it constantly..

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Funny thing about Mantra... I have seen a grand total of ONE Monk use Mantra in any content, and I have been playing since Beta 3. And it was a week ago or so I saw him use it. I basically did a triple take and was just like... Did you really just use that?! I forgot it existed!

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Originally Posted by Limecat

Granted these aren't unused abilities, but there are two main things I'd like to see changed. Remove Haymaker from the GCD. It's meant as a counter-attack, kind of defeats the purpose when you have to take a time out from your rotation for a slow that may or may not be useful anymore depending on whether other people have been applying slows. Failing that, increase the power on it from 170 to 220-250. The other one is Shroud of Saints. I'd like to see the cooldown reduced by 10 seconds, but more than that I think it should be changed from a Lv38 ability to something around Lv10 so that it's in the same area as other class MP recovery methods. Maybe make the enmity shedding a trait you get at 38 instead.

Also going to agree about Tri-Disaster. I don't worry about it not having much of a purpose since I'm already so busy keeping up the main three DoTs and spreading them around, but changing it from a meh bind to something like a slight resistance debuff would be a good idea.

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On the topic of abilities that should be off the GCD... Manawall and Manaward should both be off the GCD. If I'm doing Titan (Ex or HM doesn't matter) and in the middle of a cast and he targets me with Landslide there is no point in canceling my cast to use Manawall and resume casting in Landslide, because you may as well just move out of it at that point. You should just be able to pop it while in the middle of a cast so you don't need to interrupt a cast.

I can't remember if Aetherial manipulation is off the GCD or not, but if not it needs to be. Being able to cancel a cast and teleport directly out of harms way.

I agree with you about Tri-Disaster actually. It would be great if it had a slight magical resistance debuff in the same AoE. It would allow your dots to hit higher, help out BLM's and WHM's with Holy. Sounds like a great change to me. It would be another thing to manage but it would work well I think.

For summoner I would say it's Energy drain, Miasma II, Tri-disaster

1. Energy Drain: Doesn't deal enough damage or heal enough
2. Miasma II: Melee range for a summoner...no thanks, damage and duration isn't worth the effort
3. Tri-disaster: Cast time is long, duration time is short, damage too low

I could really go for an off-GCD Shield Swipe with a modest recast timer.

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Originally Posted by peaches

They shouldn't be giving us PvP skills in PvE though.

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Actually most rarely used skill are for PvP, I'm starting to guess, I play dragoon in PvP and that is the only time I see Elusive Jump being used..

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Originally Posted by peaches

Funny thing about Mantra... I have seen a grand total of ONE Monk use Mantra in any content, and I have been playing since Beta 3. And it was a week ago or so I saw him use it. I basically did a triple take and was just like... Did you really just use that?! I forgot it existed!

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Lol.. yea thats pretty terrible.. I can think of many reasons to use mantra especially in the new coil.. T6 after Rafflesia spit and grouping for her phase 3 laser beam, t8 spam it throughout the fight, and t9 when grouping for first phase thermionic beam when grouping for megaflare transitioning into phase 3, and spamming it throughout phase 4 especially for thermionic beam.

I use Elusive Jump for mobility. O.o And also to look cool.

Bonus points for evading a lethal AoE and jumping back into range to continue kicking tail.

A lower cooldown would be nice; it isn't as though enmity is ever an issue in this game, would not be gamebreaking to have the enmity reduction more frequently. Alternatively, if it is game-breaking, the enmity reduction could be adjusted.

Let me Jump more. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I use Elusive Jump for mobility. O.o And also to look cool.

Bonus points for evading a lethal AoE and jumping back into range to continue kicking tail.

A lower cooldown would be nice; it isn't as though enmity is ever an issue in this game, would not be gamebreaking to have the enmity reduction more frequently. Alternatively, if it is game-breaking, the enmity reduction could be adjusted.

Let me Jump more. ;_;

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As someone who doesn't have a Dragoon, I second this motion. Dragoons look absolutely bad ass while jumping around, and I'd LOVE to see it more!

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Originally Posted by KingAhmoseTheFirst

Actually most rarely used skill are for PvP, I'm starting to guess, I play dragoon in PvP and that is the only time I see Elusive Jump being used..



Lol.. yea thats pretty terrible.. I can think of many reasons to use mantra especially in the new coil.. T6 after Rafflesia spit and grouping for her phase 3 laser beam, t8 spam it throughout the fight, and t9 when grouping for first phase thermionic beam when grouping for megaflare transitioning into phase 3, and spamming it throughout phase 4 especially for thermionic beam.

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I can understand them re-purposing the PvE abilities for PvP, but they shouldn't be giving us ANY abilities that have absolutely zero use in PvE. If they want to keep the PvP effect, that's fine just change the entire ability to be useful PvE.

I haven't done T6+ yet but really it's useful anywhere. It's not ever 100% necessary but it goes a long way to making AoE curing easier. After an Ex Primal does their signature attack bringing everyone to half health, or if somebody messes up hurting the entire party imagine what Mantra can do! As a Scholar I partied with a WHM. I tested my Fey Illumination (20% healing buff to everyone) with Whispering Dawn+Rouse (our pet's AoE regen with our ability to buff our pet by 40% I think it is) along with a WHM using Divine Seal (20% healing buff to them), Medica 2 and Regen. We got up to 1100 regen a tick. Imagine this with Mantra's 20% buff on the entire party. Then imagine what it would do to a Warrior who already has 25% healing received. I think it'd be possible to get close to 1800 regen per tick.

While this would never work this perfectly in an "Oh Sh*t!" situation, my macros always give a buffed AoE regen on my Scholar, and WHMs use Divine Seal on cooldown, so Mantra on top of that any time there is large scale AoE damage helps immensely.

*edit because of the damn 1000 character limit

Weird. I would say most MNKs I've been in a group with fire Mantra off here and there. Maining WHM, I also specifically use it during phase changes and other bits where I know healing is going to get nasty.

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Originally Posted by Limecat

Weird. I would say most MNKs I've been in a group with fire Mantra off here and there. Maining WHM, I also specifically use it during phase changes and other bits where I know healing is going to get nasty.

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Yea I've had other people on my server saying they see people using it all the time. I know I'm not just not noticing because as a healer I'm always looking at people's buffs/debuffs. Maybe I just got weirdly specific "luck" where I only find Monks who never use Mantra :P

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

I could have sworn Bane did, in fact, used to hit all targets in a small radius and had to be nerfed because it was indeed overpowered as hell.

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I kept waiting for someone to say this, and I almost gave up. Finally....

SMN got huge nerfs after 2.1 because of how OP they were. Bane DID used to hit all targets within its casting range and WAS nerfed because they were the gods of AOE. They also had Thunder taken away from them, and my buddy who has mained SMN since launch swears up and down that Fester was ninja-nerfed. I haven't ever seen anything saying it was, but he is adamant that it happened. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Esmian

Pretty sure the only thing this thread has highlighted for SE is how bad some of the players are.

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So much this.

I've had great use from tri-disaster. Ironically better use than Bane. (never played with a group that gathered all monsters in a tight pack, and always only hit about 2-4 anyway)

The long range + bind + AOE of tri-disaster makes it an excellent tool for helping other players who are chased by all trash mobs. Sucks for DPS though.

But who knows, maybe they nerfed tri-disaster since everyone else seems to have no use from it.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I've had great use from tri-disaster. Ironically better use than Bane. (never played with a group that gathered all monsters in a tight pack, and always only hit about 2-4 anyway)

The long range + bind + AOE of tri-disaster makes it an excellent tool for helping other players who are chased by all trash mobs. Sucks for DPS though.

But who knows, maybe they nerfed tri-disaster since everyone else seems to have no use from it.

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Its just that situations like that are pretty rare. Sure the tank may lose aggro on one, maybe two enemies for a second or two. But in nearly no time, and if the person isn't a long range person who is running around like crazy trying to avoid getting hit and running away from the tank, everything ends up fine. In general I find the second I CC something with Sleep or Bind or what ever, not half a second goes by before it gets attacked. Even if I make a macro with a sound effect, put up a Bind marker on the enemy and announce it in chat, people will still hit it. And not hit it like they were already almost finished an ability and it went off as soon as Sleep did - no, this is a good 2-5s after where they just whack it, or spam AoEs or something.

*obligatory 1000 char edit

NEVER USED

Useless abilities in Lv. 50 PvE content (end-game[Bahamut's Coils]).

One Ilm Punch
Sleep
Repose
Swiftsong
Feint (please correct if something can be slowed)

RARELY USED

Situational abilities in Lv. 50 PvE content (end-game[Bahamut's Coils]).


Tri-diaster
Freeze
Shadowbind
Haymaker
Lethargy
Apocatastasis
Surecast
Keen Flurry

Abilities that could use a (minor) buff.

Foresight
Holmgang
Scathe

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Originally Posted by Mellowlicious

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I like Feint. Yes, it doesn't work on everything, but when it works, it can save lives. Example: the Sahagin casters in Levi EX can be slowed. This means more casting time which means more time to kill them before they wipe a raid.

It's also great in pvp since a 20% increase in cast time usually means st least an extra half second.

As for what WAR needs, it's in a pretty good position overall. The aforementioned issues with Fracture could stand to be looked at. Maybe a TP reduction, or have the trait boost more than duration. It's useful only when you have Berserk up, preferably with Unchained, or if you are disengaging from a target and the extra TP cost won't matter due to having some downtime dodging attacks or what not.

Foresight could use something. I use it more for the minor enmity gain on ability use than I do the extra defense. Make it buff magic defense too or something.

-Freeze is very useful for CC and locking out enemies from boss fights.

-Scathe is great for being on the move and not having a Firestarter/Thunderproc. Also extremely useful for when a monster will die before you finish casting Fire 1.

-Thunder 1 is very useful for when you either won't have time for a Thunder 2 (because of an incoming AoE), or when you predict a monster will die before Thunder 2 DoT finished but not before Thunder 1.

-Lethargy is good for slowing down enemies or just using it on bosses to help the tank mitigate.

The key to being a good BLM is how to use all your skills and what's the best situational use for all of them. Getting Thunder 2 does note make Thunder 1 useless. The 3 thunder spells have different cast times and durations for a reason. Rotations are not written in stone, and you should always adapt accordingly.

-One-Illm Punch is not used very often, but should be used whenever a boss SS themselves (Four Winds and Haukke HM if you can't interrupt the first ad).

-Stance-dancing is great for MNKs and you should do so.

-Mantra is awesome for unavoidable damage.

-Elusive Jump is amazing for covering distance

-Tempered Will is meant for preventing knockbacks, not used a lot, but still useful.

-Cover is pretty nifty when used right, especially for ads with no agro table.

(I've left out skills, as BLM, MNK, DRG, and PLD are my only 50's).

A lot of the skills that have been listed in this thread are situational and highly underlooked. Not using a skill all the time does not make it bad, and it is ofterntimes the use of those skills that separate a decent player from a good one. With that being said, there ARE skills, like Apocastasis (although this could be argued, because Ifrit hits pretty hard, and can also be used for T5 Phase 2), that are so situational that they're almost useless. Haymaker should also be off the cooldown. It would be very nice as well if Surecast overruled Paralysis. Surecast is nice to use for when you grab agro or for Fireballs in T5, but a Paralysis override would be very nice ;)

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Originally Posted by Mellowlicious

I don't think I've seen Feint mentioned at all in this thread.

I've never used it past level 25 or so, when I finally realized that it's pretty damn useless. It's a large DPS drop to use it in your rotation, the Slow debuff isn't THAT important and since a couple of other classes slow, it quickly becomes useless.

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Feint is the most powerful slow, 20% for 20 seconds. BLM Lethargy might be same duration but their spell does no damage. No one ever has time to use Haymaker. It's really useful on Levi Ex's adds; but I wish it could be used on others, or at least better told when the DR was wearing off.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

I kept waiting for someone to say this, and I almost gave up. Finally....

SMN got huge nerfs after 2.1 because of how OP they were. Bane DID used to hit all targets within its casting range and WAS nerfed because they were the gods of AOE. They also had Thunder taken away from them, and my buddy who has mained SMN since launch swears up and down that Fester was ninja-nerfed. I haven't ever seen anything saying it was, but he is adamant that it happened. *shrug*

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Bane never hit all targets, ever. The tooltip was incorrect from 2.0 until 2.1 when they decided to fix it so it actually said how many targets it hits.

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Originally Posted by LukeyP666

Some monk stuff...

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Since this seems directed at me and my comment that Fists of Wind is an underused ability. All AoE attacks that are dodge-able are designed so that classes without Fists of Wind can safely dodge them as well. Even in Leviathan X, if you just position yourself on the seams of where the dives cover, you only need to take 2 steps in any direction to dodge the dives. The odds of Fists of Wind being the deciding factor in if you dodge an ability or get hit are incredibly low, especially with how small a lot of the movements are.

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Originally Posted by peaches

On the topic of abilities that should be off the GCD... Manawall and Manaward should both be off the GCD. If I'm doing Titan (Ex or HM doesn't matter) and in the middle of a cast and he targets me with Landslide there is no point in canceling my cast to use Manawall and resume casting in Landslide, because you may as well just move out of it at that point. You should just be able to pop it while in the middle of a cast so you don't need to interrupt a cast.

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Even if a skill is Off-GCD, it cant be used while another skill is being used.

how did fluid aura and apokatastasis not make this list?

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Originally Posted by Gurpsmeister

how did fluid aura and apokatastasis not make this list?

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Believe it or not, they are actually used occasionally and useful in their role. Fluid Aura is a free off-GCD DPS for WHM when used effectively, and Apocatastasis is mitigation no matter how minor it is.

Ok I have to chime in on this thread mostly for the BLM Freeze spell. In my opinion that spell needs to be changed to something like Chimera's "Ram's Keeper" or Hydras "Ball of Ice" attacks. Where its a ground DOT like flaming arrow and shadow flare, possibly include heavy status effect as well. I think it would be far more useful that way than it is now.

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Quick Knock
Little use. Only used off a free proc of rain of death minus 20 tp does not give enough incentive to use it short range and limited cone AoE. Bard has similar abilities that are superior. Not sure how to fix this one completely. Maybe lower TP further or increase damage and make into a line AoE with extended range.

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Quick Knock is actually the best of the 3 BRD AOE's, the range got extended recently, it has the widest radius of all 3, and costs the least TP. The free procs from Wide Volley and RoD are not worth it, Quick Knock ends up being better DPS for your TP use.

Having Said that, Wide Volley and RoD are actually the abilities that need some tweaking.

how the hell did bane and sacred soil make this list? those should be 2 of your most used abilities. if you dont think soil is good enough on its own then stack it with a succor... you know that spell that procs occasionally when you use soil /shrug

Elusive jump is used on a lot of content to maximum uptime on bosses.

I use it on cd basically for t7 and t9 for example.

It needs to have the cd reduced tho, 180 is way too much.

As a BLM main, I use all the abilities that you think need buffs.

Thunder I - I use it a lot in Halatali Hard on the 2nd and 3rd phase specifically, and several other places. When you have 2-3 mobs that will survive a fire 2 > double flare rotation, I use it right away on mob 1, then mob 2, then mob 3, and target mob 1 to use thundercloud if it procs. Thunder II and III take longer to cast, and give you 5 extra seconds of DoT when the mob might not live long enough for it to matter. The only reason I use any thunder over scathe is for the thundercloud procs.

Scathe - I love it. You can use it while running for those mobs with abilities you need to dodge, or on speed runs when you are killing one mob and locking out the rest. It's also great when you are off on timing from a blizz 3 > thunder and need another second to recover MP to get to max before going into fire 3.

Lethargy - My biggest issue with it is the mobs that are immune to it. I use it often, I see nothing wrong with it.

Freeze - it sucks

Other jobs:

Bane - yeah, should be more than 3 mobs

Shield Oath - should be 30, like defiance

Presence of Mind - I use it like Eye for and Eye; I have it in a macro that burns it when it's up. It's not great, but it's helpful to use when the cooldown is up.

Sacred Soil - if people are too dumb to get the benefit, your party is the issue, not the skill

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Originally Posted by Scorpius

And how much MP do you think Bards have?
Between healers QQ'n for Ballad, BLM for Requiem and Tanks/DPS for Paeon, i'm sure we could fit that in somewhere.....

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Pfft who plays paeon for tanks?

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Originally Posted by alhandra

how the hell did bane and sacred soil make this list? those should be 2 of your most used abilities. if you dont think soil is good enough on its own then stack it with a succor... you know that spell that procs occasionally when you use soil /shrug

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You can tell when people only read the names of the abilities and nothing else. If you read the description as well as some posts on the next page you'd see I do in fact use them both all the time, I just feel they need some changes to really shine. Read what you want to comment on before you actually comment, and save looking like a fool.

Like I've said, Sacred Soil is great but it rarely ever prevents a wipe. If it comes down to me having 1 or 2 stacks of Aetherflow left and the cooldown on Aetherflow is still like 40+ seconds (when sh*t gets crazy and you're stuck popping Lustrates) I'm saving those 2 stacks for Lustrate. It can easily save the tank while I'm busy healing up other people, moving from fight mechanics, or even if the tank just happens to take spike damage I wasn't expecting.

If I know I won't be needing Lustrate a lot or my Aether stacks, yea I'll go nuts with SS and use it pretty much on cooldown.

I disagree with Scathe and Thunder 1 on this list. I use them all the time. They are hardly underused. Freeze underused? Absolutely. Lethargy? Turn 5 is the only time I have a user for it.

Lethargy works great in Turn 5 if you are solo BLM.
Alternate with Speedcast Blizzard for 40%/20% "gravity" on the knights.

I would put Riot Blade for PLD, but that's only because the PLD is an incomplete class and has not been expanded into its magical component. There's nothing you could change about the skill to make it do its job better, you would have to make a whole new skill.

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Originally Posted by Mellowlicious

I don't think I've seen Feint mentioned at all in this thread.

I've never used it past level 25 or so, when I finally realized that it's pretty damn useless. It's a large DPS drop to use it in your rotation, the Slow debuff isn't THAT important and since a couple of other classes slow, it quickly becomes useless.

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Helps in Garuda a bit especially if there are two dragoons then only one has to drop their DPS. It mitigates the damage she does quite a bit