PLD feels underwhelming lately

why do people act like thrill of batlle isnt a defensive cooldown?

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

why do people act like thrill of batlle isnt a defensive cooldown?

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Cause people are dumb?

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Originally Posted by Synestr

Could have been faster but still good.

When we exited, leader said, ready to go again?, told our WAR we don't need him. This run was faster than the one we have with him.

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If their measuring stick for "good" is 10 minutes, and their normal tank is a WAR, their WAR is absolutely horrible. The best time I've seen for a PLD was 7 minutes (PLD/BLM/BLM/SCH) because PLD has negligible AoE damage and significantly worse ST DPS, the two capabilities that actually govern the effectiveness of a speed run. It's the same reason why SCH is better for Bray SRs than WHM: SCH brings a helluva lot more damage than WHM on the bosses (WHM can bring more damage to trash packs, but only if they stop healing to do so, which is risky for everyone and doesn't even really speed it up that much).

PLD is explicitly worse at Bray speed running because it doesn't have the damage and there's no point in which HG is required (on WP speed runs, the final pull basically required it). WAR and PLD have virtually identical survivability. In raids, PLD makes up for having worse damage by bringing greater utility; for speed runs, utility doesn't really make it go any faster.

This isn't to say that PLD is incapable of doing speed runs, but there's a damned good reason why people really want a WAR rather than a PLD: even a mediocre WAR is going to speed up the run more than a PLD.

Lmao @ ten minute runs being good. Ten minute runs are garbage. If you can't pull under 5:30 as either tank you need to refine your playstyle.

Doesn't it really depend on the DPS though? If you're pulling everything, not stopping, and holding hate, it's not like there's anything else you can do, right? Or am I missing something? Granted I generally end up doing SRs just by chance in the DF pretty much every time, but I've definitely never had a full run go as fast as 5:30. Maybe I've just never gotten to run it with two high enough geared DPS or something.

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Originally Posted by Bornruffian1

Doesn't it really depend on the DPS though? If you're pulling everything, not stopping, and holding hate, it's not like there's anything else you can do, right? Or am I missing something? Granted I generally end up doing SRs just by chance in the DF pretty much every time, but I've definitely never had a full run go as fast as 5:30. Maybe I've just never gotten to run it with two high enough geared DPS or something.

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It's more than that. If your DF party is composed of 2 Monks, you might want to wonder if you really want to start speedrunning by pulling everything. Bonus points if your healer is SCH instead of WHM

Best time as a PLD 5:15 /shrug dunno what you guys are talking about. I do feel that it mightve been even faster with a war but then again HG with whm throwing holys is nice as well.

Meh, reading this forum makes me think many people posting here have no idea what they are talking about. PLD is definitely easier to play, but also has a lower skillfloor, so a good WAR will always be more useful than a good PLD. PLD beats WAR in fights where you take sustained dmg, in fights with burst dmg (eg Titan ex/T5/T9/...) WAR is king, because you can time your IB for every burst attack, while keeping your other CDs for oh-shit-moments.

Concerning speedruns, my best time as ilvl 101 WAR with bravura animus + mixed DPS jewelry (couple 110, rest 100) was about 4:50, WHM holy-ing aswell, you dont need any heal besides bene in the first pull, while you can self-sustain in the second one. I'm also pulling around 200-250DPS in speedruns, about 180 in T6, 240 in T9.

PLD will always outdo WAR while learning fights, but once you got the timers down, WAR reigns surpreme.

pld will always be the true king. if you don't believe that, then maybe you need to cancel ya sub. name one thing that matters that people say "grab a war not a pld" nothing.

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Originally Posted by NoctisFair

PLD will always outdo WAR while learning fights, but once you got the timers down, WAR reigns surpreme.

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I think you mean "PLD will always outdo WAR while learning fights, but once you learn the fights you have the WAR spec +30 STR and put on DPS accessories so you can kill it faster".

Fixt.

Ten min full runs on any job is too much agreed. But as stated, out of my control as I am not the one dealing the dmg. I think they were set up DRG, BLM, WHM. At any rate it got done. I am curious to try war now...I like to dps too ^.^

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Originally Posted by LOLyYOUcryin

pld will always be the true king. if you don't believe that, then maybe you need to cancel ya sub. name one thing that matters that people say "grab a war not a pld" nothing.

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T5, titan ex, T6, T9.... every fight is easier with a good WAR than with a good PLD, it is just way harder to play a good WAR because it requires much more skill.

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Originally Posted by Feylie

I think you mean "PLD will always outdo WAR while learning fights, but once you learn the fights you have the WAR spec +30 STR and put on DPS accessories so you can kill it faster".

Fixt.

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Nope, I mean once you got the boss-rotation+timers for their hard-hitting skills (Death Sentence, Mountain Buster, Bloody Caress, Raven Blight) down, it is easy to time Inner Beast with them, so you have a flat 20% (+10% from storms path) damage reduction for every big hit, with other CDs on top if you want.

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Originally Posted by NoctisFair

Nope, I mean once you got the boss-rotation+timers for their hard-hitting skills (Death Sentence, Mountain Buster, Bloody Caress, Raven Blight) down, it is easy to time Inner Beast with them, so you have a flat 20% (+10% from storms path) damage reduction for every big hit, with other CDs on top if you want.

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/44397487.jpg

Paladin is still the best SR in Dungeon especially Brayfox because of their many Defense migration and Hallow Ground.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Paladin is still the best SR in Dungeon especially Brayfox because of their many Defense migration and Hallow Ground.

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Debatable. Id say warrior triumphs speed runs because you're doing them for speed. A warrior does more AOE damage, and a lot more damage while generating threat. While the paladins flashing and doing no dps, the warrior is berserking IR, maim and using overpower/steel cyclone, causing huge damage, thus making the speed run, speedier. with my dps set i do more damage than most bards. i only think a paladin would be better in a speed run if you had crap gear and really needed the mitigation.

and this debate always gets brought up, and the answer is in the person playing the class. both tanks are really good. warrior is a bit more complex to play, a little more damage (if MTing, OTing as a paladin does more dps), but I do like paladin more when I know Im going to take a shit ton of damage, like when I would solo tank t5 with the snakes, or more recently, on t9 tanking the ghost and nael. could i use warrior on t9 and tank just as effectively, probably, if I got used to it. I use warrior every time on t8 now because thats the way i learned it, because we needed the extra dps at first. id have to learn to play t8 as a paladin if i decided to. i chose paladin for t9 because its what I've played since launch and what I'm more comfortable with. I've seen several videos of people solo tanking t9 with warrior though.

both tanks are very good. each is better at different things, but unanimously, everyone seems to agree that warrior is more fun to play, since you can see some huge hits with berserk up, the different debuffs, and the awesome AOE threat. paladin, to me, is the safer choice, and better for big spike damage. and again, warrior does do better dps while main tanking, by 15-30 dps commonly, but a paladin in sword oath does better damage than a warrior without defiance, thats a fact. warrior is considered the OT king because of the debuffs and the ability to gather adds with ease. i really hate flash spamming with paladin, so boring.

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Originally Posted by Kimura410

paladin, to me, is the safer choice, and better for big spike damage.

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WAR is actually better for predictable spike damage. On demand DR through IB beats RNG block/parry with Rampart and Sentinel being on lengthy CDs (HG is cheating). Paladins are better for dealing with sustained damage since they can block and parry while warriors have only parry.

The best set up is always WAR OT, and PLD MT. -28% static damage on a PLD MT with higher shield block/parry rates is basically the way to go for literally every fight.

I don't know why Kimura said OT PLD does more damage...? I'm sort of confused. My WAR does about 340 DPS while defiance is off, and I'm struggling to think of what a PLDs top end would be... 190-220? Again this is the reason the WAR OT's, the much much much higher DPS it can perform.

WAR does SUBSTANTIALLY more threat than PLD. It's basically a non-issue anyways but that 1,400 damage Butchers block at the start of a fight? Yeah, that's as much threat PLD does in about 10 GCD's, which is literally insane.

Hallowed Ground is good for things, so are all the rest of the cooldowns, but everything can be done without HG (including that final pull in WP even at ilvl80, someone mentioned it up a lot... I was like lol..?)

Also don't knock off Inner Beast, 700-1500 heal's are actually quite nice. If I am prepared for it I can tank Titan Hard Mode on WAR without getting a heal for nearly 4 minutes post-heart (before heart it auto attacks too much... Mountain buster is easier to deal with) I can do the same on PLD (double stoneskin Rock Breaker + Mountain Buster) but it runs out of MP after the 3rd or 4th one even spamming Riot Blade and it can't catch its own HP back up, so maybe only 2.5 minutes or so.

MT PLD loses alot more dps than MT WAR. Thats why a PLD OT is the better choice if you want to maximize your raid damage.

Edit: And if both of your tanks are good it doesn't matter who is OT and who is MT. The healers wont see a difference (outside of encounters where something needs to be chain stunned or were you can exploit HG of course).

Wow the random lean shifts in this thread changes every three posts. But the design fact is pld can survive with a lower stat threshold then a war and its not because they are better per say just adjustments behind the scenes. Warrior suffers from the same design issue that drg does compared to mnk, or blm to smn. Which is there is a point where you will break encounters because of how the mechanics work on the job. Those mechanics are adjusted and tested with each stat increase. Old IB for instance could have easily jumped the cliff which is why they had to cut it so close to the neck making it in comparison to pld whose cooldowns are all percentage to damage taken instead of damage done. If IB was gauged to hp total it would have broken the threat of burst damage so the new inner beast was a better alternative and easier on the dev side as well. But it would not be hard to decap a pld, having a static damage taken like a poison tick and paired with pox like effect and pld will drop like a comet, while warrior will be head above water. Pld static stats like defense support it more then War just by the method of the ehp increase. So if you have a fight where the stats are attacked or ignored in general the healing increase with War shines brighter then reduced incoming damage when the threat isn't incoming damage that goes through the reduct/defense/resists checks. So calling pld the king is just making it the king in a small pond but the same can be said about war because if devs wanted to they could punish both designs at once but that would by design hit the healers the hardest.

I really enjoy PLD. Started off as MRD, but even at 20+ it just felt squishy. Granted, I've been told the WAR job stone changes things dramatically, but playing on a PS3, there's only so much I can put on my cross hotbar. The 1 2 3 RoH combo works for me, not boring because it can be a challenge doing dungeon speed runs due to having flash and CoS as your only aggro taking skills, by rotating the combos between mobs. Shield mitigation is nice too. But both classes done right is comparable in the upper levels I've seen.

just recently solo tanked T9 on PLD, its doable with proper cooldown management, though i admit i did die midfight to claw but managed to salvage it with good healers and proper use of HG.