2nd Job Predictions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnova

Whatever jobs they add they need to make sure to balance tank, dps, and healer.
If they just add dps classes the queues will be insane.

---

Another Tank class is needed but most likely will be a popular class thats been indicated as "most wanted"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordSliver

Another Tank class is needed but most likely will be a popular class thats been indicated as "most wanted"

---

I just hope they don't shoe-horn a popular class into tank class. :(

But then again, how another tank would work? We already have a mitigation tank and a HP tank. Evasion tank would be either too OP or too weak to tank anything. Maybe a tank that channels spells or something like that =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandim

But then again, how another tank would work? We already have a mitigation tank and a HP tank. Evasion tank would be either too OP or too weak to tank anything. Maybe a tank that channels spells or something like that =P

---

Another mitigation/HP tank. Just, different abilities. Maybe a caster tank that requires timing of spells or something, but still mitigation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandim

But then again, how another tank would work? We already have a mitigation tank and a HP tank. Evasion tank would be either too OP or too weak to tank anything. Maybe a tank that channels spells or something like that =P

---

Evasion tank could work if the rate of evading attacks wasn't ridiculous and it's HP was similar to the existing tanks.

As a very rough idea, the Paladin has say 5000hp + 20% damage reduction, a Warrior has 5000hp + 20% boost in hp and healing, so the hypothetical evasion tank could have 5000hp + 20% chance to evade. The incoming damage on an evasion tank would be spikey compared to the other tanks, but would theoretically require less overall healing.

A tank that's different but not an evasion tank could be a pet tanking job? Something branching off of Conjurer with it focusing on calling forth an elemental avatar to tank for it maybe. Lock down the cure spells to the avatar and throw in some lore about the strain of keeping the elemental around negatively affecting it's cure potency to prevent the job functioning as a healer while tanking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

I just hope they don't shoe-horn a popular class into tank class. :(

---

Hello Dark Knight!

The dark knight is a damage dealer not a tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyVaJedi

The dark knight is a damage dealer not a tank.

---

Maybe in FFXI. But this is FFXIV. They most certainly could make the Dark Knight a tank if they chose to do so.

If there was a Time Mage class I would literally never stop playing this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alavastre

Maybe in FFXI. But this is FFXIV. They most certainly could make the Dark Knight a tank if they chose to do so.

---

Could be Hybrid class, can go Tank or DPS, but off course I imagine the Hybrid classes branching from 2 jobs not base classes lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alavastre

Maybe in FFXI. But this is FFXIV. They most certainly could make the Dark Knight a tank if they chose to do so.

---

Maybe in all FF games, the dark knights are glass cannon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

Maybe in all FF games, the dark knights are glass cannon.

---

You're correct. The laws of physics makes it impossible to change it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alavastre

You're correct. The laws of physics makes it impossible to change it.

---

No, but the law of fan service makes it impossible.

Martial Classes
Archer
Sniper: DPS (Bard will be modified for Support job, big change like Warrior 2.1)

Gladiator
Red Mage (DPS)

Lancer
Templar (tank)

Marauder
Viking: DPS (Twin Hatchet/Axe class)

Musketeer
1st Support/Hybrid Corsair

Pugilist
Berserker (tank)

Conjurer
Geomancer: Support

Thaumaturge
Time Mage: Healer


Extra job (since class not confirmed)
Rogue
DPS Ninja
Unlock- Pugilist

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

-snip-

---

This is pretty much what I've been thinking. Although, if they were to make a "Support" role as you indicated for BRD, Time Mage could be that instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clavaat

This is pretty much what I've been thinking. Although, if they were to make a "Support" role as you indicated for BRD, Time Mage could be that instead.

---

I think it'd turn into one of the first "hybrids".　Healer in pinch? Haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alavastre

Maybe in FFXI. But this is FFXIV. They most certainly could make the Dark Knight a tank if they chose to do so.

---

Check OP: Dark Knight

We agree on a lot, just a few things:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Gladiator
Red Mage (DPS)

---

That could happen, but I am thinking 3rd job personally, and probably a hybrid type for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Extra job (since class not confirmed)
Rogue
DPS Ninja
Unlock- Pugilist

---

Oh come one, we see 2 NPCs in the game, 1 for class and 2nd for job. It maybe called assassin, but I think it is confirmed. They even mention a dagger class it in the last live letter. However skeptics will be that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Check OP: Dark Knight

---

You're focusing on the wrong things in that list:

II: Leon joined with high Strength and Stamina and starts with a set of diamond equipment for armor.
III: Original NES, they had high Str/Agi with low Vit, but in the remake they had high Str/Vit and low Agi. In both versions, they could wear the second-highest defense armor set at end-game.
IV: Cecil as a Dark Knight has higher HP and defenses than Kain at the same tier.
X-2: "The Dark Knight dons heavy black and spiked battle armor."
XI: Wears heavy armor.
XII International: Ulahn (hybrid DRK/DRG) wears heavy armor.
Tactics: Gaffgarion (Dark Knight in the PS version), the Dark Knight job in the remake, and Argath (Death Knight but same abilities as Gaffgarion) all wear heavy armor and wield heavy shields.
Tactics Advance: NPC Grissom's job is Dark Knight although his abilities are the same as Paladin.
Crystal Chronicles: The original had a Dark Knight NPC wearing heavy armor, and in the prequel that NPC's heavy plate armor was equippable.
Four Heroes of Light: Dark Fencer, even though not a knight, is Strength primary, HP secondary.
Bravely Default: Not an FF, but close enough, and the job is high Str/Agi with HP as its third-highest stat. Also wears heavy armor.
Dimensions: Wears heavy armor.

I'll give you, especially with FFXI in there, that Heavy Armor does not necessarily make a tank. LNC/DRG already gets a set of mid-heavy armor that doesn't really do much for them, after all. But the image of a heavily-armored fighter is the image of a tank, and WAR supports this as its XI version was relegated to just another DPS while in XIV it's actually a tank.

Despite the mechanics, Dark Knight can also be a very qualified blood tank, especially with access to heavy armor and defensive cooldowns, and it could even be a LNC job! LNC already has the aforementioned tanky mid-heavy armor, a stun, a life drain ability, and a +damage/-defense ability, although WAR has most of those too and real heavy armor to boot.

In the first place, it's not any kind of a stretch to see DRK as a tank. Personally, I foresee LNC's next job as a tank, and if they decide that each class's jobs should provide a different role from their other jobs then I think we'll see DRK as a tank off of LNC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

You're focusing on the wrong things in that list:

II: Leon joined with high Strength and Stamina and starts with a set of diamond equipment for armor.

---

I fail to see the relevance here. Still had high strength and his best weapons in the game where two handed the Longinus . In this game two handed abilities were used for damage. In fact he had access to the most damaging weapon in the game even.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

III: Original NES, they had high Str/Agi with low Vit, but in the remake they had high Str/Vit and low Agi. In both versions, they could wear the second-highest defense armor set at end-game.

---

By your own recolection the DRK didn't always have a high VIT, but always had a high STR. I put that statement a point in my favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

IV: Cecil as a Dark Knight has higher HP and defenses than Kain at the same tier.

---

I don't know if I would call them the same tier, as Cecil was clearly the main character of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

X-2: "The Dark Knight dons heavy black and spiked battle armor."

---

X-2, yes there were tanks, and if you actually READ my OP you would note that I pointed that very fact out. Which tells me you didn't read the OP I mentioned and just assumed on my statement. Your further and previous points are thus debased in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

XI: Wears heavy armor.

---

LOL yes, but were still the easiest DPS to kill in the game due to class abilities. The heavy armor was put in there for esthetics because heavy armor looks cool. Their abilities over compensated for this making them glass cannons if you played them as intended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

XII International: Ulahn (hybrid DRK/DRG) wears heavy armor.

---

Never played XII, but I assume at this point the DRK has its SIGNATURE ability to drain hits own HP to deal DAMAGE. A key fact you seem to be ignoring. Look up any discretion of the class as a whole and this will be a DEFINING class/job ability and characteristic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Tactics: Gaffgarion (Dark Knight in the PS version), the Dark Knight job in the remake, and Argath (Death Knight but same abilities as Gaffgarion) all wear heavy armor and wield heavy shields.
Tactics Advance: NPC Grissom's job is Dark Knight although his abilities are the same as Paladin.

---

Yes and in the same game you could get Summoners wearing Heavy armor, NEXT TANK! Summerons! Heard it here first. That aside, the gameplay for tactics was interesting. There were no real defined DPS melee in the game, that was mostly left up to the casters. At best melee would be a hybrid of both DPS and Tanking. Everyone except that casters did tanking/dps and the casters did DPS and/or Healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Crystal Chronicles: The original had a Dark Knight NPC wearing heavy armor, and in the prequel that NPC's heavy plate armor was equippable.

---

Heavy armor factor already addressed. What was their signature ability in this game anyway?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Four Heroes of Light: Dark Fencer, even though not a knight, is Strength primary, HP secondary.

---

Sooo your saying Dark Fencer is a PC playable DRK or an example of another dark class doing more DPS than the DRK? Fail to see point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Bravely Default: Not an FF, but close enough, and the job is high Str/Agi with HP as its third-highest stat. Also wears heavy armor.
Dimensions: Wears heavy armor.

---

Already covered this with previous statements about heavy armor. If the game has their signature ability to drain HP to do more damage, the heavy armor is to mitigate this and is there mostly for esthetic purposes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

I'll give you, especially with FFXI in there, that Heavy Armor does not necessarily make a tank. LNC/DRG already gets a set of mid-heavy armor that doesn't really do much for them, after all. But the image of a heavily-armored fighter is the image of a tank, and WAR supports this as its XI version was relegated to just another DPS while in XIV it's actually a tank.

---

Okay there is a point, but there is less wiggle room with the DRK due to its heavily defined signature class abilities and rolls, dealing damage at the cost of personal health. Where the warrior could go either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Despite the mechanics, Dark Knight can also be a very qualified blood tank, especially with access to heavy armor and defensive cooldowns, and it could even be a LNC job! LNC already has the aforementioned tanky mid-heavy armor, a stun, a life drain ability, and a +damage/-defense ability, although WAR has most of those too and real heavy armor to boot.

In the first place, it's not any kind of a stretch to see DRK as a tank. Personally, I foresee LNC's next job as a tank, and if they decide that each class's jobs should provide a different role from their other jobs then I think we'll see DRK as a tank off of LNC.

---

Yes and no. As in X-2 would could see something like that, but it would not be iconic and would be akin to the current summoner, which I don't think anyone (who is a fan of summoners from previous games) is happy about. Also Yoshi-P clearly said he wants DRK to come from the Gladiator class; this is presumably to make the player choose between DRK and PLD as the classes preferred, or focused toward, job. In the end, I am not saying that there isn't a possibility, or that it hasn't happened at least once before, I am just saying it isn't iconic, ideal, or desirable, and that if the DRK was a tank it would be a huge disappointment to the fans of the class/job, and that it would be a much bigger mistake than the current summoner, and that is saying a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Also Yoshi-P clearly said he wants DRK to come from the Gladiator class; this is presumably to make the player choose between DRK and PLD as the classes preferred, or focused toward, job.

---

Wasn't that just an example? I remember him saying that as an example only and he wasn't confirming that DRK would come from GLA. He said that to demonstrate that he would like the player to decide between one job or another, probably akin to how SMN/SCH is. But then again, DRK coming from GLA would be so cool.... Like what you prefer? Being the good guy that will help others by taking dmg over them as PLD or being the 'bad' guy and helping others by killing their enemy? *_*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Also Yoshi-P clearly said he wants DRK to come from the Gladiator class; this is presumably to make the player choose between DRK and PLD as the classes preferred, or focused toward, job.

---

Where did he say this?

I still want WHM/SMN :) like in FFXI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandim

Wasn't that just an example? I remember him saying that as an example only and he wasn't confirming that DRK would come from GLA. He said that to demonstrate that he would like the player to decide between one job or another, probably akin to how SMN/SCH is. But then again, DRK coming from GLA would be so cool.... Like what you prefer? Being the good guy that will help others by taking dmg over them as PLD or being the 'bad' guy and helping others by killing their enemy? *_*

---

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-and-Arcanist

"I wanted to step in and let you all know that what was written in ConnectOn interview were just a few of the random ideas (or delusions http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...ilies/wink.png) that Yoshida was kicking around in his head, none of which are finalized concepts"

This was also mentioned so no, yoshi never CONFIRMED that DRK is coming from GLA, he specifically said that when he was giving that as example...

On the subject of Dark Knight:

A common trend in most RPG lore, as far back as AD&D at least, and included in Final Fantasy lore as well, is the duality of Paladins and Dark Knights. In Dungeons and Dragons, Blackguards (evil Paladins) are either seen as an advanced class for Paladins or as a special kit for Paladins who wish to be evil to take on character creation.

In Final Fantasy, the most famous Paladin in the entire franchise, Cecil Harvey, started out as a Dark Knight and became a Paladin. I simply cannot see Dark Knight coming from anything else than the class that spawns the Paladin simply for that kind of Duality.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Marauder

Marauder's second job will obviously be the DPS-heavy Berserker. I simply cannot see it being anything else anytime soon.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Lancer

There are a few other jobs who have been able to wield Lances and Spears. While it is a stretch, Edgar Figaro from FFVI was a combined Lancer and Engineer. Therefore, I think it would be reasonable to let Lancers become Engineers this way.

Also, in FFXI, the Samurai Job can also equip spears, and in FFTA, the Templar Job can also equip spears. So there's a couple thoughts.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Pugilist

The most likely one I can think of would be Black Belt, which would be much more like a traditional Final Fantasy monk in that it would have much higher HP.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Archer

The most obvious choice would be Ranger, but other options could include FFTA's Sniper.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Conjurer

There are many different mage Jobs that utilize White Magic or something similar. However, considering the Conjurer's direct ties to nature, I am willing to bet that Geomancer will be the most likely Second Job for the Conjurer.

------

On the subject of other Second Jobs: Thaumaturge

There are many different mage Jobs that utilize Black Magic or something similar. However, with how Astral Fire and Umbral Ice work, I wonder if a twist could be put on those abilities and work well as a Time Mage, changing Astral Fire to Astral Haste to amplify spell speed (rather than increase damage) at the cost of increased MP, and Umbral Ice to Umbral Slow to regenerate MP quickly at the cost of reduced spell speed?

^ IIRC yoshi said he doesn't want to give Haste as a spell/skill so people wouldn't depend solely on it, like only stacking skill/spell speed. But he could change his mind too. I just with we had more options, because everything seems the same to me for now. Like every SCH that I know of wants crit, WHM wants spell speed/det, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandim

^ IIRC yoshi said he doesn't want to give Haste as a spell/skill so people wouldn't depend solely on it, like only stacking skill/spell speed. But he could change his mind too. I just with we had more options, because everything seems the same to me for now. Like every SCH that I know of wants crit, WHM wants spell speed/det, etc.

---

Well that's kinda why I suggested changing Astral Fire to Astral Haste and Umbral Ice to Umbral Slow. That way, Haste is technically being utilized by increasing the speed in which THM spells are cast (rather than amplifying their power directly) rather than as a spell to cast on any caster.

I mean heck, they could even get a self-targeting spell called "Quick", which eliminates the casting time of all spells for 10-15 seconds with, like, a 180-360 second cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Well that's kinda why I suggested changing Astral Fire to Astral Haste and Umbral Ice to Umbral Slow. That way, Haste is technically being utilized by increasing the speed in which THM spells are cast (rather than amplifying their power directly) rather than as a spell to cast on any caster.

I mean heck, they could even get a self-targeting spell called "Quick", which eliminates the casting time of all spells for 10-15 seconds with, like, a 180-360 second cooldown.

---

I wish yoshi could do that to materias, like a materia that increases Fire Spells by 5%, or decrease their cast time, etc. Unless yoshi plans to do some sort of skill tree for that. I believe in XI it was called the merit points? never played XI so i can't say for sure =X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnova

Whatever jobs they add they need to make sure to balance tank, dps, and healer.
If they just add dps classes the queues will be insane.

---

Adding more tank roles wont suddenly turn players who dont want to tank to decide to tank :) Can pretty safely say that adding more tank jobs wont magically balance out the que times at all.

I just hope, really really hope, that they will give every class a second job eventually. If that happens, the thing I hope even more is that they do not make us use attribution points and gimp one job just like SMN and SCH. Please SE, think about this!

Some people will say that an INT based SCH heals as good as one that is MND based, or the MND based SMN only does X less dps or even swap points after buying some grand company item. There are people who just want to play a job the way they want to w/o changing attr points every other day.

Now.. Let us pray.

2nd Jobs I'd like to see:

Gladiator -> Dark Knight - I'd really like to see a Cecil style Dark Knight instead of a Scythe Dark Knight. I know a lot of people would disagree though.

Monk -> Dancer - Dancer's in FF were pretty good with Hand-to-Hand, and I feel like martial arts and dancing have a decent amount of similarities. Would love to see them as a healer.

Lancer -> Templar - It'd be great if this was a Tank. Thematically, it could be like Templar from FFT, using status effect based attacks.

Warrior -> Berserker or Beastmaster - I'd love Beastmaster, but Berserker would be good too. Either way a DPS.

Archer -> Ranger - /obvious

Conjurer -> Geomancer - I feel like this is obvious too, though I'd want to see it as a full DPS. I'd hate to see Conjurer get shafted in the solo department by being given another low damage Job.

Thaumaturge -> Time Mage - I'd love to see this, but don't know how likely it would be. If they added a Support role, I'd see it as that. If not, it would be kind of cool as a Healer. =x

Oh, and for Musketeer, I'd love to see Corsair (DPS) and Chemist, ala FFT (Healer).

I have my own idea for the 2nd job class of dragoon... But since I cannot post it here since it is 6110 characters, please go to this newly facebook account where I post it as a status... Tell me what can you say about it and I would add more, but depends to your feedback... click the link: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008324324465

Am I the only one wanting Musketeer to become either Blue Mage (FFX-2 style) or Red Mage (just cause mage + gun = win) ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melsan

I have my own idea for the 2nd job class of dragoon... But since I cannot post it here since it is 6110 characters, please go to this newly facebook account where I post it as a status... Tell me what can you say about it and I would add more, but depends to your feedback... click the link: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008324324465

---

you can edit your posts to go further than 1000 characters

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juntaru

Am I the only one wanting Musketeer to become either Blue Mage (FFX-2 style) or Red Mage (just cause mage + gun = win) ?

---

Red Mage coming from Musketeer sounds cool to me, pistol + rapier weapon set :) .

To put the RDM debate to rest, since I played one in FFXI, my arsenal consisted of all the elemental staves, Joyeuse, kracken club, and a pair of lvl 1 daggers. My armor consisted of healing set, enfeebling sets (int or mnd priority depending on the spell), magic attack(nuking and int priority) enhancing set ( int or mnd priority depending on the spell). To play a rdm, was to play a Jack of all trades, and play each role effectively. The only limitations of a rdm was we didn't have access to axes, polearms, great swords, or great axes.

Depending on what role a rdm was doing had a variety of weapons to choose from, however in ffxiv having access to both rapier and staff should be adequate to allow the rdm to choose between melee or ranged, barspells, en-spells, and haste should be aoe, refresh single target, the line of enfeebles slow, paralyze, dia (aoe diaga, and single target dia I,II, III), 3 levels of fast cast passive, passive to enfeebles, enhancing, and healing (off heals support for ranged) access to cleric stance, defensive spells Phalanx , blink, and spike spells (self only). A defined support class, not true dps or true heals. With a role to wear down a mob, and build up damage. Support role is not well defined in ffxiv as of yet, and it needs to be. Keep in mind all spells won't be available at level 50.

I guess comparing FFXIV rdm and FFXI rdm isn't a good idea. Just look at the differences between 11 brd and 14 brd...
Moreover, ff14 gamesystem isn't as complicated as ff11, there is very few moments where switching gears is a msut (having an Extrem equipment set, and a coil equipment set for the accuracy cap is the only thing coming to mind...).

Rdm could really be anything, because it is a jack of all trade. And if I remember correctly, Yoshi-P did say MSK would be very different from what we could expect... so yeah, mage gunner could be inbound... :D

Well that would be determined by group comp, progression or farm mode, fight per fight basis, gear changes are not required, because only tanking, healing and dps are defined, support hasn't been. Obviously boss fights would be tailored with this is mind, means they would get harder. The only mage gunner I know of is a Corsair. (dice rolls and elemental shots were not physical)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

P.S. So I just wanted to clarify here; in theory all classes will obviously get a 2nd job. These jobs would need to have a few rules.
1. Run on a different primary stat.
2. Probably Have a different roll in a party.
3. Apparently they will bend over backwards to doing strange things like making a tank class into a DPS job; so normal class rolls, as well as job roles, do not count for much of anything.

---

4. Use the same weapon as their twin job and root class.
5. Have a use for all of their root class's skills.

--------------------------------------------------
Personally my only one bet right now is Red Mage springing from Gladiator. Sword, shield, and access to MP-based abilities. It would wear lighter armor than PLD, but have access to more magic abilities in return. I could see it be a multi-tasking support class or a debuffing class, depending on what its five job abilities will be.