All I see is content nerfs.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

This is what's wrong with MMO players. You don't even view people who are "lesser" than you as human and worth consideration.

There are lots and lots of people who aren't good enough skillwise to clear Coil. There are lots of people who can't clear Titan HM. These people exist. Calling them bad names and making fun of them will not help anything, because if they leave, Square-Enix loses money and then the difficult content you enjoy will be reduced in the future.

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Where did I call anyone less than human? Where did I call anyone names? (lol) Rather strange direction to go based on my original comment, maybe your attitude is the issue for you? Anyways... turn 1-4 already gets downed by pugs every week, it's pretty much a fact that it's not hardcore.

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Originally Posted by am0n

And there is a whole hell of a lot more of us than you.

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All I'm seeing are a few people getting mad at a generalized comment at the state of some of the current coil and a few of the extremes... Also, I always finished my coils on day 1 and stopped for the rest of the week so I'd probably be considered a casual :) so I suppose there would be a whole lot more "hardcore" players than "casual" since most of us finishing early would be casual players due to our 2-4 hour weekly playtime.

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

Where did I call anyone less than human? Where did I call anyone names? (lol) Rather strange direction to go based on my original comment, maybe your attitude is the issue for you? Anyways... turn 1-4 already gets downed by pugs every week, it's pretty much a fact that it's not hardcore.

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So why do you even care if people can get the Echo buff? Why does that affect you at all? Especially since, if you get it, you can just, I dunno, CLICK IT OFF.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Uh, you know that they had planned this all along, right? When the new content comes out, like you know, Turns 6-9, the old gets nerfed so people who couldn't do it before can now experience it.

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This is flawed logic though. There are going to be higher levels of gear avail even within the group game. So 1-5 will already be easier because people will start running around in Myth 2.0 gear they got by running duty roulettes. SO with ALSO nerfing the content everything is getting double nerfed.

It's like giving everyone an extra 2k hp AND making fireballs on Twin do 1k dmg. If you do one the other isn't needed

No. I'm saying they should cater to all players and it's not impossible to do so, and the content is really not sparce at all.

As of right now, the amount of stuff that hardcore players would enjoy is really honestly a lot less than the number of stuff accessible to most skill levels. The list I made on the previous page really does not lie.

I'm not even against nerfing coil T1-5 because 6-9 are meant to replace them as the new set of difficult raids. Extreme mode primals should honestly be left alone though. The rewards they offer are actually going to be weaker than the rewards that the nerfed Turns 1-5 will offer. The only reason to run them after patch 2.2 is either for the challenge, for the sake of collecting all gear, or for the black unicorn.

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

Where did I call anyone less than human? Where did I call anyone names? (lol) Rather strange direction to go based on my original comment, maybe your attitude is the issue for you? Anyways... turn 1-4 already gets downed by pugs every week, it's pretty much a fact that it's not hardcore.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

So why do you even care if people can get the Echo buff? Why does that affect you at all? Especially since, if you get it, you can just, I dunno, CLICK IT OFF.

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Are you even arguing with me or are you arguing with some invisible phantasm made from your idea of a hardcore player? You keep saying things that have nothing to do with what I've said.

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

Are you even arguing with me or are you arguing with some invisible phantasm made from your idea of a hardcore player? You keep saying things that have nothing to do with what I've said.

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Problem is your saying people should have to actually put in effort for their gear. How dare you sir/madam!

There should clearly be lvl 1 npc's standing around the cities who drop allegan because the person who stepped foot into the fight 1 time said "na I'm not going to spend time to learn this fight I'll just wait till it's nerfed" needs the same gear everyone else got or the world isn't fair!

"The world isn't fair" doesn't work for some people. They feel entitled and think whatever they want should be handed to them.

Way to use strawman falacies, Zarzak! Making content easier is not asking for things to be granted to you. What you are saying is that getting a Plasma TV for 2thousand dollars when it used to cost 3thousands is the same as getting that TV for free. That makes no logical sense and you should be ashamed of using that faulty logic. Also, you used the expression "They feel entitled", so you should feel double ashamed. Most overused word of the internet when nobody understands what it means or how it should be used.

But besides, this is a game, lads. A game is suppoused to be fun. I'm sorry if you feel that other people being able to clear content and have fun makes you sad, but you know...The world isn't fair. Stop feeling "entitled" and stop fucking up with everyone else's fun.
Or, you know, just go play FFXI or something.

I think they should just add an Echo buff after dying a few times. No need to make the actual fight easier, especially when AF2 gear will automatically make it easier.

The echo buff should actually be applied after half of the timer has passed.

Unless you really want to see "Force wiping two times for echo" speedruns.

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Originally Posted by Iecerint

I think they should just add an Echo buff after dying a few times. No need to make the actual fight easier, especially when AF2 gear will automatically make it easier.

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That is....exactly what they're doing? The actual mechanics and difficulty of coils ISN'T GETTING LOWERED. Echo buff will just be available for turns 1-5.

Gating difficult content permanently, especially content that is gating storyline is a horrible idea. Everquest and Everquest 2 were both notorious for this. I was a huge lore-freak on Norrath. I was also a hardcore raider for a good chunk of my time in that game and saw tons of lore that the majority of players would never get a shot at witnessing because they didn't have the time to devote to doing it. The worst part? For a goodly chunk of the early run of the game EQ1 went into a giant lateral progression phase. From the Launch of the first expansion until the launch of the fourth there was no level cap increase, then there was only a five level increase. The gear that was attainable from any form of group dungeons was utter crap even compared to raid content from the first expansion up until the fourth expansion. Much of the group content in the fourth expansion was based around you already being raid geared from the second or third expansion. What happened? The casual game gradually melted away. It came to the point where five-six boxing botters and hardcore raiders were the only players you saw anywhere on the servers. Sometime around expansion seven or eight SoE finally realized they needed to level the gear curve a bit so there was the slightest of possibilities of people going from group player to raider, but by then it was far too late to preserve any shred of community, at least on my server. My point is, it's a good, nay, EXCELLENT idea to reduce the difficulty of existing content after it is no longer end-game relevant. Raid players rarely revisit content they've farmed out, even if it's left in its original difficult state. Unless there is some late-game-quest relevant item drop or item that is good for twinking an up and coming alt that comes from there, the old 'late game' zones in EQ1 are barren wastelands and have been since the expansion that made their drops no longer relevant. Game design ala FFXI and EQ1 are relics of the past. If you take off the rose-colored glasses and think about it, you'll realize that they belong there. If there's something new to do, and the guild/fc/ls has geared their players past content, IT WON'T GET TOUCHED if it is left above the difficulty threshold of very casual players. Better to reduce the difficulty and let people see what they missed while it was fresh than to leave it forever beyond their reach and ostracize them from the game altogether.

Seeing how the self-styled "awesome" players behave in dungeons, I hope Square Enix takes the nerf hammer and strikes HARD. That's your "granny" for you. :P

P.S.
A "certain" game reached 12 millions because it was the only game in the genre that almost everybody, including "grannies", could play and enjoy. Make a product accessible to more people and more people will buy it, if it is any good (and many times even when it isn't!). Some games flopped in the last years not because they are copies of "that" game, but because they are BAD copies. FF14 ARR is extremely polished, and a gorgeous video and audio experience: it has the potential to be a real evolution, as opposed to the fabled and imho impossible MMO "revolution". As long as SE doesn't listen to the hardcore/elitists/whatever they are called. The only problems in this game stem from that.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Uh, you know that they had planned this all along, right? When the new content comes out, like you know, Turns 6-9, the old gets nerfed so people who couldn't do it before can now experience it.

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What kind of garbage sense does that make?

I don't have a problem with things getting nerfed but could they at least give us a chance to beat the normal version first... I have been leveling all crafts all Doh and all my classes so im not running coil seriously everyday of the week with static and yada yada ya... I've got to turn 4 love the challenge and extremes I haven't even touched yet... I would like to beat them before they get nerfed I don't need a crutch to get me to the next level... Why don't they leave them normal difficulty after so many fails it gives you the option to lower victory level... Example run coil T-1 fail 3 times give prompt to lower difficulty level for group... Way better process if you ask me for the people that wanna run things normal... I'm not going to envy someone who plays this game 14 hours a day and beat content before I even got to it... I can't sink 14 hours a day into this game to get to the meat and potatoes and I wanna play normal stuff...