I'm sure it has been said many time before.... but...

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Originally Posted by Doo

Would be the right thing to do for the first timer to say I'll just watch it at the inn since the group wants to SR or I can leave and find another group that wants to watch every cutscene. You guys gotta get out of your single player mmo mindset. Group > individual.

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This is the most contradictory, selfish, backwater logic I've read all day.

You do realize how bad you contradict yourself don't you? There's like 2 people who speed runs these anymore.

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Originally Posted by Archona

Is this 8 pages of replies by entitled new players demanding that experienced players carry them AND watch all the cutscenes? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Set up a Party Finder group if you want your 'story mode' run. If you use Duty Roulette/Finder and like your short queue times, then expect players to skip the cutscenes.

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Read my post before yours, your one of those people its for.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

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Doesn't matter how it was "defaulted" if you get a group that ain't doing it get over it or leave. You can't make everyone play how you want. If it ain't rule breaking. And just because it's "defaulted" doesn't always mean that's how it has to be done.

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Originally Posted by Archona

Is this 8 pages of replies by entitled new players demanding that experienced players carry them AND watch all the cutscenes? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Set up a Party Finder group if you want your 'story mode' run. If you use Duty Roulette/Finder and like your short queue times, then expect players to skip the cutscenes.

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I don't think anyone's asking to be carried. At least I hope not. In fact though, what speedrunners are doing now is more akin to carrying as the new player often doesn't even get to take part in the encounters that people are plowing through.

However, these are two dungeons that block the rest of the game and require eight people to complete. It's not like they can just go and do it themselves.

Your tomes are replacable, a first timer's experience is not.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Doesn't matter how it was "defaulted" if you get a group that ain't doing it get over it or leave. You can't make everyone play how you want. If it ain't rule breaking. And just because it's "defaulted" doesn't always mean that's how it has to be done.

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You didn't read a damn thing i said. First off. im not a new player. But lets sit down and have a chat for a moment yes? You want this game to be a success do you not? Yes? Well of course you do! Otherwise you wouldnt be here paying 15 a month, am i right? And you also care for the games health too? Amiright? I would assume you just shook your head yes so ill continue... So i would assume you also want new people that play this game to feel welcome and immersed right? I would hope you would say yes becuase otherwise they arent going to stay for the long run and keep the game you care about running.

So.. what's it hurt for you and those like you to wait a few little moments out of your life (note its not even every single time you run it mind you) to let someone experience the game they have a right to experience it like? I would think thats a good thing, it keeps them playing and liking it.. and in the long run keeps the game afloat with new subs..

Lets say... for the other side of the track that the only thing they are met with is... first they see that the whole grop went ahead meaning less of the dungeon for them to experience and less fun, that with the fact you probably have someone in group mouth off to them and say go watch it in inns? Do you honestly think thats going to keep them around? Yeah i bet they are going "YES I LOVE HOW THEY TREATED ME, PLEASE ONCE AGAIN AND PUT SOME HEAT ON THAT INSULT!" No... not really. *throws hands up* I mean we should be worried about keeping our community, especially our new community excited via positive socialization right?

Just food for thought. I reallly hope you see what im getting at as ive pretty much laid it out for you.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

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Lmao, not at what you said but how you did the first part.

No, I don't care about this game nor the success it's a watered down theme park. I'm ONLY playing because I've made some awesome friends who want me to stay here. If ONE dungeon run puts someone off from playing a game they so call like, then they shouldn't or didn't really want to play. I agree with you on the part of people being mouthy which is why I always go off on those type of people. But in the end no I'm not going to stop for ONE person and I'm not going to speed up for ONE person.

Sorry that this happened to you, OP.

I don't think people understand that the DR tomes are a reward for helping others. Earning those tomes means waiting for cutscenes if that's what someone wants to do. It also means exploring the whole area, and giving someone a good experience if they're new.

FFXIV should fix this problem by simply not letting anyone move until everyone is out of the cutscene, or by making everyone wait in a locked area, like the entry circles that are used at the beginning of a dungeon.

When I run dungeons, I stand outside with the new people if people are going too fast. :)

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

Sorry that this happened to you, OP.

I don't think people understand that the DR tomes are a reward for helping others. Earning those tomes means waiting for cutscenes if that's what someone wants to do. It also means exploring the whole area, and giving someone a good experience if they're new.

FFXIV should fix this problem by simply not letting anyone move until everyone is out of the cutscene, or by making everyone wait in a locked area, like the entry circles that are used at the beginning of a dungeon.

When I run dungeons, I stand outside with the new people if people are going too fast. :)

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I do too. Good on you. Its just proper etiquette.

On my first run through Prae and CM, I skipped cutscenes for the couple players in my group that were legacy and wanted to get things done. I didn't want to make people wait for me, because guess what, they are also people and wasting their time when you can watch them later is pointless and selfish. Watching them at the inn later was -not a big deal in the slightest at all-. You people arguing for this are clearly only focused on yourselves.

And those of you talking about the experience of first time runs... seriously? This isn't like you're losing your virginity or anything. It's a dungeon run. In a game. That you play with other people. I personally skip if even one person will be sitting around waiting for me, because I would feel bad for it. But as other people have said, I think the middle ground for that is going with the majority. You're not special and you don't deserve to waste 7 others' time. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Solieri

And those of you talking about the experience of first time runs... seriously?

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Yes, seriously. Going to FFXIV version of netflix to experience the store is a big deal to me. You're susceptible to peer pressure, good for you, but the majority trying to pressure a new guy to skip cutscenes for their precious tomes is called bullying. They are not special and don't deserve to ruin a first timers experience. Sorry.

I feel bad for people who think playing the game as intended is wasting other people's time, and that helping other people play the game as intended is wasting their own time. :(

Enjoy the experience for what it is, and help others enjoy it, too.

There will be plenty of time to grind the same dungeons over and over without any challenge or surprises. Introducing new people to the content is some of the most fun I have in an MMO.

Experiencing the new content for the first time is special, and everyone should have enough pride as a gamer to want a good experience for themselves and others. Sometimes that means standing up to the majority and reminding them that DR rewards are earned by helping others, not by giving others a bad experience.

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

I feel bad for people who think playing the game as intended is wasting other people's time, and that helping other people play the game as intended is wasting their own time. :(

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Helping others play the game as intended then they ruin the experience for others when they already done it. Helping players do Titan HM then on their second jobs they make the ilvl requirement 90 for others. There's a lot of these type of players as well. They sound all nice and goody goody on forums but they aren't players they make themselves out to be.

no body wants to wait for 15 mins of CS's everytime they play a dungeon.
SE needs to stop with all the CS's after you hit a switch, kill something. just need one at the start and at the end.

While CM has the dumbest placement of CS I've ever seen it does not mean that other people can tell you how to enjoy your game.

I always make it a point to ask if people are new because even if the cs can be annoying, I will wait until the new player is done watching them. I believe that if someone is new to the dungeon they should have the option to see the cut scenes as they happen. It makes for a better experience, especially since CM is the second to last dungeon in the storyline.

There is a reason that the duty roulette and party finder was placed in the game and that reason was so that newbies wouldn't get harassed into skipping the cutscenes.
Duty Roulette gives +200 tomes, I'd say that's more than enough to compensate people for watching the cut scenes.

As far as Party Finder goes, it was made for people who want more control over their runs. It works both ways. However, the more experienced players should be the ones to use Party Finder to set up their speed runs. The newbie players are directed toward Duty Finder for the story missions.

If experienced players have a problem with cut scenes and newbies in their runs then they should be the ones to use party finder, not the other way around.

The players who rush and are intolerant of others should be concerned about what their toxic attitude does to this game and the community. Instead of being selfish they should strive to make the community a better place.

CM was a great dungeon playing it the 1st time around.

But my goodness there was soooo much cut scenes! There honestly should not be any cs between boss fights. With 8 people it makes it difficult to concentrate.

Hopefully cut scenes will be placed in the beginning and at least before the final boss.

It truly is a shame how the garlean generals were defeated. I wish each had thier own instances like cape westwind where you'll have to infiltrate garlean territory just to unlock the instance.

Instead, everybody was lumped together in cm

I agree that CM and Prae's CS are not very well handled.


When I did them the first time, we (other first timers and I) said so right away. We intended to watch CS, and the rest of the group was cool with it.
They didn't wait for us during most CS, but they didn't grief us for watching either. We didn't get locked out of boss fights, thankfully, just missed basically all the action in between bosses.

Prae's last boss was the worst disapointment for me. By the time the CS introducing him ended, the group was shouting for LB, and then boss was dead. I missed the whole fight, and right on to the next CS.

Even though the fight itself wasn't that interesting, it's more the whole dynamic that was damaged by this. Those last two dungeons are epic when doing them in the main quest. The CS are part of it. (those saying "you can watch CS in inns" don't get it, I could also watch CS on youtube, I wouldn't be paying a sub if the point was just to watch CS without any action).


I can't resent people who won't wait for those watching CS, they can move on, just like other people can watch CS if they want to, nothing to do about it (as long as they don't grief/kick those watching CS, they can play as they wish, too).

I really wish fights could not start as long as some people were still in CS (like at the start of dungeons).
An option "skip all CS" in DF for those wanting a SR would be apreciated as well.

You're not a special snowflake :'(

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

Yes, seriously. Going to FFXIV version of netflix to experience the store is a big deal to me. You're susceptible to peer pressure, good for you, but the majority trying to pressure a new guy to skip cutscenes for their precious tomes is called bullying. They are not special and don't deserve to ruin a first timers experience. Sorry.

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Except according to the OP they did not pressure him to skip at all. They just let him watch as they did the dungeon. If 4/7 of the group want to speed run we are speedrunning, if 4/7 want to watch the cutscenes we are watching.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

Yes, seriously. Going to FFXIV version of netflix etc etc whatever

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It's not peer pressure, it's being a considerate person. I made the decision consciously, even though there were others watching cutscenes, to not watch them right then so that we could continue on. If you have run that place as much as most people did in the beginning, which looking at your profile, you probably have not... you might understand how annoying that would get -every time-. Design flaw? Definitely. But given that design flaw (which wont be changed because you CS watchers would be waiting FOREVER for a group), do you be inconsiderate and keep people waiting? Apparently more people say yes than no...at least in this thread. And that's sad. Self centered people are what is wrong with gaming communities these days.

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Originally Posted by Solieri

Apparently more people say yes than no...at least in this thread. And that's sad. Self centered people are what is wrong with gaming communities these days.

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In game most players are more than willing to skip and don't make a fuss about it.

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Originally Posted by Doo

In game most players are more than willing to skip and don't make a fuss about it.

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Probably because they don't want run an empty dungeon.

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Originally Posted by indira

no body wants to wait for 15 mins of CS's everytime they play a dungeon.
SE needs to stop with all the CS's after you hit a switch, kill something. just need one at the start and at the end.

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Yes. Rush it so you can alt-tab in Revenant's Toll asap.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Probably because they don't want run an empty dungeon.

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I figured not everyone think of their first time as some magical trip to Disneyland. :)

This is how I feel about ruining someones first time

Randy: Sharon, his character is going to die if we don't get to him!
Sharon: So what?


They let you watch them at an inn and there's even a player finder option box that says "Story focused, no cutscene skipping" Yet players still want the entire group to wait for them.

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Originally Posted by Hotfoot

1/5 troll. Troll harder.

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Sorry but after reading some of the comments i feel the only one that is trolling here is you. And its a bit ironic you seem to be attacking everyone that disagrees with you.

Personally, i havnt run any of these dungeons for a while, however if the majority of people are waiting for boss, we aernt going to wait for cs watchers, we will simply play the game. Not to try take anything away from their experience, however they are entitled to do what they want, same as us, in our case, clear the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Archona

Is this 8 pages of replies by entitled new players demanding that experienced players carry them AND watch all the cutscenes? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Set up a Party Finder group if you want your 'story mode' run. If you use Duty Roulette/Finder and like your short queue times, then expect players to skip the cutscenes.

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Great post, as usual sound and intelligent post.

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Originally Posted by Solieri

Apparently more people say yes than no...at least in this thread. And that's sad. Self centered people are what is wrong with gaming communities these days.

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Oh pleaseeee lol, get off your high horse. You dont pay for anyone elses subscription so stop it lol. Seriously... the nerve of some people. *Shakes head* You are wrong. Clearly. Proven by the mechanics themselves. If the cutscenes were not meant to be viewed then they would have never been able to be viewed in a run now would they? They would be before and after. The first people that played the game, they were not pressured to skip the cutscene were they? no.. they weren't and it was their right to watch it, just as its the right of the newer people to take their time to watch it.

Especially when you have other avenues to skip what you "deem" as a problem. Give me a damn break. You can read my post a page or so ago, its for you as well.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Oh pleaseeee lol, get off your high horse. You dont pay for anyone elses subscription so stop it lol. Seriously... the nerve of some people. *Shakes head* You are wrong. Clearly. Proven by the mechanics themselves. If the cutscenes were not meant to be viewed then they would have never been able to be viewed in a run now would they? They would be before and after. The first people that played the game, they were not pressured to skip the cutscene were they? no.. they weren't and it was their right to watch it, just as its the right of the newer people to take their time to watch it.

Especially when you have other avenues to skip what you "deem" as a problem. Give me a damn break. You can read my post a page or so ago, its for you as well.

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There is an option in the Party Finder for no cutscene skipping, maybe you should go use that and make a group.

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Originally Posted by Hotfoot

As I said, I don't think it's your fault. SE implemented this to make people like you more inclined to help people like me. Except you give in to your need for tomes and use the excuse of repetition.

If repetition is that painful to you, why play an MMO at all? Takes nothing to wait a few moments for people watching cut scenes. Even if you do have to do it every time.

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It can pretty much double the time the dungeon takes when you wait for cutscenes and wait for all the "are you ready now?" dilly dally shilly shally as opposed to just plowing through. That can mean an hour instead of 30 minutes.

It is pretty unreasonable to expect 7 people to wait on 1 person watching cutscenes before even starting a fight. Be grateful that people are willing to carry you while you watch the cutscenes.

This thread reminds me of the youtube before Primal fight thread. It's full of people who think it's selfish and elitist if 7 people don't play the game the way 1 person wants them to, it blows my mind. This is a social game, we all pay our sub and what the mob says, goes. If the majority want to watch CS then watch CS, if the majority are happy to carry on then carry on.

Just so you know, on my first time through I skipped the CS so I wouldn't lose concentration and could learn the dungeon but also to not keep the other 7 people waiting. I then watched them at the Inn and enjoyed them, in peace and with a nice outfit on:)

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

"I pay a sub, I'm getting what I want and to hell with everyone else. I HAVE RIGHTS! ONE OF WHICH IS TO WASTE OTHERS' TIME!"

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Everyone else pays a sub, and maybe they would like to not wait for you, which they have a "right" to do as well. Also, there's a skip cutscene option. We are not meant to watch them every time. But that's beyond any point. It's a design flaw that there are that many cutscenes in any dungeon that people farm. I'm not saying you can't watch your cutscenes, but if you're holding the group up, or wanting anyone to wait for you, that's seriously self centered, and based on your response...

Basically, watching them in the inn is not a big deal. But hey, as the person below you said, if you want to watch them, there's also the option for you to form the group for that purpose, and not expect everyone else to wait for you or carry you when most people are farming the dungeon.

Simple fix: Change cutscene skip to a vote which has to be unanimous to do it. Worked fine in Guild Wars. Nobody ever complained about the cutscenes as far as I saw, and I played Guild Wars a lot.

Simple, yet flawed fix: Boss battles can't initiate until everyone is inside the circle. Would work like the simple fix but now everyone would know who's still watching the cutscene. Complaining and votekick abuse would ensue.

Difficult fix: Less cutscenes in dungeons or splilt dungeons to story- and non-story modes.

Impossible: Somehow design party content in a way that patient, friendly and sociable players are the ones who most likely reach the end game.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

Simple fix: Change cutscene skip to a vote which has to be unanimous to do it. Worked fine in Guild Wars. Nobody ever complained about the cutscenes as far as I saw, and I played Guild Wars a lot.

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From what I remembered people always complained about people not skipping cutscenes atleast in the earlier years.

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Originally Posted by Solieri

We are not meant to watch them every time.

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Ah, i think you are misunderstanding me. That's what i think the issue is. Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear instead of assuming people would understand i mean just the first time. Let's rewind this and try this again shall we? IF you are talking about after the first time, well yeah, hell ya i agree that's selfish if you have already seen the cutscene. And to THOSE people i would say, please.. inn room, thank you. No contest there.

What im talking about is people seeing it for the very first time, when they are in the spirit of it all. that's their right to do so, and they shouldn't be bullied to watch it in the inn. As at that point it kinda makes the experience bland, at least that's what it would do for me. *Shrugs* But i digress a bit, i was lucky to be among launch week people that had all the time in the world to enjoy them.

But, if your saying it's selfish for the "first" timers to enjoy it, i couldn't disagree more. And personally i would find THAT leaps and bounds more selfish as people at launch have had their time to leisurely enough it while in the spirit of things.

Perhaps that clears things up a bit? lol.

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Originally Posted by 00039

From what I remembered people always complained about people not skipping cutscenes atleast in the earlier years.

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I don't remember a single time when it was a big issue funnily enough, and I played for several years ever since Prophecies was the only campaign to when Eye of the North was released. Guess I got lucky then. Then again the length of the cutscenes on FFXIV is several magnitudes bigger which would lead to at least some whining for sure.

Solution: PIP cut-scenes. Yes. That fixes all the injustice in the game! Even PVP!

there's actually party finder settings for making a group that wants to watch cut scenes but if you want a full group wanting to watch cut scenes be prepared to wait a LONG time, even most first timers want to skip them

but as far as duty finder goes the only reason people are going to those instances at all is getting bribed with bonus philo to do it by daily roulette. Otherwise there is no reason to go there at all since everything you get from them can be found more quickly elsewhere

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Originally Posted by Linadae

I'm sorry but watching the cut scenes from the safety of your inn room removes all of the excitement and intensity that comes from actually being in the dungeon and watching them in context. (...).

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This. It would be like chopping up a good movie into small pieces where you see some pieces now, and some pieces later: that's not how the movie was intended to be watched.

Evidently the duty roulette isn't enough to convince people that Story mode dungeons is for the story. I think the way to go is to do what other people in this thread have suggested: make the cutscenes in story-dungeons unskippable for players joining through duty finder. Problem solved :).

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Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl

This. It would be like chopping up a good movie into small pieces where you see some pieces now, and some pieces later: that's not how the movie was intended to be watched.

Evidently the duty roulette isn't enough to convince people that Story mode dungeons is for the story. I think the way to go is to do what other people in this thread have suggested: make the cutscenes in story-dungeons unskippable for players joining through duty finder. Problem solved :).

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Roulette was implemented because otherwise without it, there'd be a severe lack of players queueing for those said dungeons. If eventually people realize it's not as effective for farming philo tomes there anymore due to said change, I'm sure there'd be another QQ about long queues and not enough people doing said dungeons.

Unable to even start a dungeon is definitely worse than being forced to skip cutscenes isn't it? At least for the latter, those cutscenes would be available in the Inn. If you don't even manage to clear it, you'd never even get to see the story.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

there's actually party finder settings for making a group that wants to watch cut scenes but if you want a full group wanting to watch cut scenes be prepared to wait a LONG time, even most first timers want to skip them

but as far as duty finder goes the only reason people are going to those instances at all is getting bribed with bonus philo to do it by daily roulette. Otherwise there is no reason to go there at all since everything you get from them can be found more quickly elsewhere

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There's actually party finder for making a group that wants to farm content or speed running but if you want a full group wanting to speedrun, be prepared to wait a LONG time... Oh wait, no.

Tbh the duty finder for all dun are touch and go it's not really all on SE it's the players iv seen people wait for cs first timers and iv seen the ones who leave em .. It's just in the player not the system shrugs.. Best thing to do is when you do your five millionth run help those new by waiting.. It's what I do most people yet not all are self centered all about me attitudes and SE can't fix that problem :/

This is just a habit I picked up from FFXI, but if the whole party is not ready - even if only one or two people aren't ready to start yet, I wait for them, I don't leave them behind. It's what I would hope people would do for me, and so it's what I do for others.
If someone has a CS, I'll wait with them.