Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

Threads like this really make me realize how much I hate the strict trinity setup... :-/

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Originally Posted by Cobayn

As a tank it annoys the shit outta me.

Problem is, most people who do it are trying to force the group to go at their own speed, decide by themselves what the group can and cannot handle and usually pull a mob THEY can't handle long enough for the tank to get back aggro on it, if the tank even realizes another mob's been pulled.

In short people do it without warning. If you think the group can handle more, say so. The tank will pull more and everyone knows what to expect. This is teamwork, not you (whoever) running a dungeon with bots.

Let's just show basic respect for each other: this is OUR group, not yours. Every one of us has their role to play.

But when it happens and you (whoever) can't handle the mob: I'll just let you die. Sorry XD

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This is pretty much my exact feelings on the matter. Very well said.

More often than not, I find myself pulling agro as a BLM and when I do, I simply just tone it down, start marking priority targets if its not being done, cycle thunders on mobs and start my rotation after I feel the tank has acquired sufficient agro. I make boss fights easier by allowing melee dps if they exist to continue to do dps to bosses and I will eliminate adds in swift style.

Sometimes being severely over geared you need to step in and moderate and lend a hand. You will only frustrate yourself and others by trying to make the group go at a pace that isn't ready for it. This also goes out to you over geared tanks in WP. Don't try and force a speed run down a group if the healer isn't going to be able to put out the HPS to keep you alive. The run might take a whole 5 minutes longer if you do it in slower smaller packs but don't pull entire hallways thinking every healer has done it or wants to do it.

I can't tell if the op is saying he pulls them on purpose because the tank is slow or he does it as an accident like running ahead and waiting by the next mob and getting aggro on accident.

If you are pulling for the tank you won't wanna run with me. I will let you die lol if you want to tank go ahead have at it. If you want to control the speed of a run level up a tank. I did and now I do smooth runs at a good pace and I tell you what I love it no longer do I dependon a lLeroy style tank.

My suggestion to the OP is to level a tanking class. Take it to 50, do some dungeons with it. Get a feel for it. Then as a DPS role you will have a better understanding of the dynamics of a party. Level up a healing job while you're at it too. Even if you don't want to gear them up for end game. Get some experience, and then you'll understand why that healer or tank gets frustrated with a DPS now and then. As a tank, if we are running a dungeon, and there are 3 or 4 mobs linked and a DPS pulls, sure I can manage to get hate back on all of them, but you just made it harder for me. If I pulled, I can easily line them up how I like and keep hate the entire time, also making it easier for the healer.

I can't stand when DPS take it upon themselves to pull the mobs, as a tank it throws a monkey wrench into my plan for tanking the mobs. Multiple targets = multiple hate generating moves on each, but now you decided to pull, and oh guess what all the mobs have linked and are attacking you! So now i'll flash, and scorn, then mark, and flash again and more than likely have them back, but at low levels it's a huge pain when you don't have your hate generating tools handy. Did a duty roulette and a DRG was insistent upon a speed run, with a fresh 50 blm and a AF whm, I told him it wasn't happening, but he insisted upon it. He rudely spoke to the rest of the party, putting them down because they weren't going fast enough, and then started giving me crap, asking why a relic+1 pld was even doing slow WP's. He then said I'm pulling you guys will have to keep up. What happens when you pull a mob, two others link and the tank doesn't pull the hate off you? You die. He did this twice, on the third time we didn't raise him. We moved at our own pace and 3 manned the last portion of WP and the boss. Don't go into duty roulette and expect a speed run, and pulling mobs when I've asked you not to ends up with you dying. #sorryimnotsorry #yoloswag #paladin4lyfeyo #lolhashtags

Before I learned completely about hate, I used to pull a lot. Now, if use DF and get a lower Dungeon for my daily, I keep my eyes locked on my threat meter. If I see it raise, I stop, if it goes a bit low, I'll use a hit hitting attack to do dmg and wait for it to go down again if I spike too high.

If I get hate ... I run to the tank and stand there. If I die ... oh well ... Doesn't bother me because I should have watched more. I don't pull before the tank, and have learned that it is ok to wait a few seconds after they attack to start (Yay for learning :D )

Also, <3 tanks that mark, its ok if they don't, I'll just wait 10 seconds then figure out what they are attacking, lol.

you take it you tank it <3 my simple solution idc if we can or can't go faster i am the tank if you can tank do it then i wil be the dps and you can be the tank i will spam savage blade never get hate and get a free ride fine by me. its that simple i do my job you do yours you take my job i stop doing mine, and if you vote kick me out hey no penalty and i get away from you double win. <3 perks of being a tank.

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Originally Posted by Ganiman

My suggestion to the OP is to level a tanking class. Take it to 50, do some dungeons with it. Get a feel for it. Then as a DPS role you will have a better understanding of the dynamics of a party.

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Yup. Actually I think it works pretty much all the way around - tanks should play a melee DPS class sometime so they learn the frustration of having a tank spin a mob around in circles for their own amusement, making flank/rear attacks hard if not impossible to pull off, or positioning mobs right next to damage pools so melee can't get those flank/rear attacks off without damaging themselves in the process. I used to play tanks in previous MMOs prior to going with DPS this time around and the experience has a huge impact on what I do. One thing I used to see a lot from folks who pulled aggro is they'd either hit all their cooldowns in an attempt to burn the mob ASAP, either that or they'd do a 180 and run away from the group. Pop a defensive cooldown or a threat dump and stay put. If the tank's worth their salt, they already know they lost a mob and will be by to reclaim it shortly.

To the OP: Easy answer...pulling mobs is not the dps' job. It is the tank's job to pull the mobs and thus dictate the speed of the run. It is THEIR job to do it. You make it harder if you deliberately run off and pull the mob..you make it harder on the tank because they now have to try to get the aggro from you (and that shouldn't have happened in the first place) and you make it harder on the healer because you just split the aggro and you probably bit off more than you could chew and are dying before the tank can regain control of the situation.

Be patient, follow the lead of tank, do your job and play as a team.

Otherwise, if you "spank it, you tank it" yourself and as a healer, I am focused on the tank and the others who are actually doing their jobs. You aren't making the run go faster or easier and it just creates stress and tension. Do your job, play as a team.

DPS pulling annoys me so much, it's unbelievable.
There is the issue of positioning, which immediately goes down the drain cause I as a tank don't expect DPS to pull and suddenly enemies are everywhere, possibly chasing the healer who's trying to save your scrawny ass because you couldn't wait another minute.
If you want to pull and position enemies or if you want to set the pace of the group, then you ought to go level a tank instead of acting like an douche, possibly wiping the entire group because of a lack of patience.

But don't worry though, if it happens once I usually give people the benefit of the doubt and try my best getting enmity back. Happens again? Yep, you're dead. You brought it on yourself.

Yep, if I see you pull then you ask why I'm not getting it off of you, I simply say: "Hey, you wanted to tank, so tank."

A tank not pulling often over complicates things. Like others have said, maybe the tank didn't pull cause they weren't ready. Which leaves me, the healer, to keep you alive. Which usually leads to trying to keep myself alive. And I can't very well just stop healing myself for the tank to get control unless we wanna wipe.

Depending on my mood; if I'm lazy or not, I often just let the DPS who does that, die. Not purely as a "learn your lesson" type thing. Usually it's a "I don't feel like tanking this". If I cast cure just twice on the DD who pulled, I gain all the enmity. It can go many ways.

I cure the DD who pulled and gain enmity from the 2-4 mobs. The other DD realizes what is going to happen and tries to help, by attempting to tank and kill one of the mobs. The DD who pulled also tries to focus down their own target. IF I'm lucky I can swiftcast and repose one of the mobs and go back to curing myself. Then the tank can try to get enmity back, but I'm second on the list even if he does. So if I have to medica cause the DD decided to tank and kill their own mobs or spam cure on the tank once they get it off me, I get the enmity right back. Then I have to spam heal myself, gaining an even bigger foothold on enmity than the tank ever had. I die, tank dies, the DD who pulled dies, other DD dies.

Usually, that is how it goes. It's much faster to just let the DD who tried to rush things, die. Tank flashes, does their enmity rotation, I cure them a little, repose one or 2 of the mobs, swiftcast raise the DD who died, and resume.

There's exactly one area where I'll pull mobs without the tank telling me to. That's the Succubi on the third floor of AK. The only reason I'll pull them without waiting is because I know I can solo them on my BRD.

Anywhere else, and it's a no-go.

Another tip for dps and healers: if you pull hate; don't try and run away from the mobs as a lot of the time you end up running out of the tanks AoE enmity moves, so they have to keep trying to pull the mobs off you and chase you down. Instead move towards the tank and stay with them until your hate has dropped.