not always i did n AK run via duty finder earlier n the tank was prolly 1 of the better 1s ive seen of late n polite aswell xD
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One thing that about set me off was this time in a CM duty roulette group on my WHM. We had Pally War 2 WHM 2 Sum BLM BRD. I main BRD and suggested that the bard try running Foes since we had so much magic DPS. The entire group jumped me with insults and the bard ended up running only army's the entire run. I was just dumbfounded.
I'm a tank, but I also have another character that is a Relic +1 Full DL+ BLM, and I HATE tanks when I run on my BLM, but I am sure to compliment and hint where I can. I think that what this poster had to say is true, and is the root of the problem. DPS and healers often times tear into bad tanks, and don't thank or encourage good ones or good behavior. I think tanks get it the worst because our actions are the most transparent - everyone can see how much damage we are taking and how much hate we have, and if we screw up, everyone is dead (likely).
DPS has A LOT more slack to the lay-man's eye. If you are paying really close attention if you can tell if a BLM or maybe even a SMN sucks, but its hard to identify a bad BRD or DRG because we can't really focus on identifying how much damage they are specifically contributing.
If you are really mean to tanks that are learning, and don't thank tanks who succeed, we are going to be pissy and feel kicked around and defensive. I'm sure by popular vote no one would call me a jerk from DF interactions, but I can certainly see how this environment could create jerks.
Really depends how bad the BRD or DRG is. I've seen BRDs not using dots and DRGs standing in front of the enemy the entire time presumably going through just the Full Thrust combo.
But, yeah, every class gets their bads, tanks and healers just tend to be more visible or critical.
As a very rough guide I go by the enmity meter next to the players name, it's easy for me to judge a tank (and DPS accordingly) that way for single target boss fights and enmity reducing abilities aside you can generally asume the DPS with the most enmity after 50% of the fight is the big hitter.
There's a lot of "undesirable" players in the game. It's annoying to have to deal with them, but I put up with them as best I can. And I don't insult people, just makes the experience worse for everyone. I will defend people however, especially in blame games. I'd rather hold the party together and finish the instance rather than see everyone re-queue. It's horrid for DPS roles.
There are assh0les in all three of the roles. I've seen my fair share of them in my time playing XIV:ARR as a bard and white mage (Though significantly less in the DPS roles I've noticed, possibly because most people play DPS). You just can't please people.
As a bard I've been told to not use songs because it cuts my DPS (particularly by tanks), which is true, however my 20% decrease will ultimately either help the party's survival (Mage Ballad) or increase the damage output of the possibly better geared members of the party (MNK and DRG burn TP so I TP song up when asked, BLM can really benefit from Foe). What's worse is that sometimes in the same parties that tell me not to sing, the person that said not to gets angry that I didn't use it or used one they wanted. "I didn't have TP!" (I can't see it and the WHM was at 500MP and very recently used SoS...).
As a WHM I've been praised occasionally for doing good work, but it usually becomes a blame game if something goes wrong. "You pulled too much hate!" "Why aren't you stance dancing!?" "Sleep them!" "You suck! How'd you die!?" "Don't heal DPS they're not supposed to get hit anyway!" "Manage your MP better!"
And as my nooby gladiator in early duty roulette dungeons... "You suck! HOLD HATE!" (Yeah no sh*t, it's hard when you're going all out in your ilvl 90 relic +1/zenith in full AF2 and allagan gear whilst I'm in level 15-20 gear).
Tell them they suck, because the 3 of them with i90 weapons and gears should be able to finish them with brute force.
Hell, did those low level 10-30 guildhests with FC mates, our average ilevel are probably 80 and we feel that we hardly need any tanking nor healing at all, everything just dies like ants.
"If you want the job to be done right, do it yourself". That is my life's philosophy. I grew up as a DPS, throughout my journey to 50 , I have seen so many unexpected things, be it DPS, Tank or Healer. Thanks to all that craps I encountered, I had incentive to level up my own Paladin and my own Healer and I became great assets to my FC as well as to my friends. I never tank before in any MMO and FF14 is the first, so I am still new to the whole tank kinda thing. I leant how to Tank under DPS point of view and thanks to that experience, I learnt their mistakes and perfect myself. Just yesterday, I went in Tam Tara with a tank lv 50 (wearing AF gear) and all he did was Fast blade + Riot blade, did not even bother using a Flash. The healed ended up tanking 50% of the Duns and I run around to pull hate of healer as a Pug, lv 25, wearing lv 15 equipment and yet when I was on the same mobs as him, I pull aggro right after my second rotation.Thanks to SE that the vote kick system was implemented, so we replaced him with some more capable.
OP; awwwww thats sweet.
But don't worry. I have met a lot of nice tanks as well (as well as abusive DPS and healers).
As for CT, I tend to hang back and let things happen. Yes I know what to do, but I never have been and never will be the leader type. So all I do is offer extra explanations when I feel someone else their explanation is lacking.
And to be honest, I can't even offer tanks any real advice because while I know what they are supposed to do, I have no idea HOW. I am not a tank, never played one. It would turn out like ''go there and do... stuff''. And I doubt that would be useful advice xD
The first or the second?
Because in CT, if I think someone else their explanations are clear, I wont say anything. But If I feel something needs more explaining I will speak up.
As for the second, I can give advice on where to tank for example, but I am not familiar with all the tanking abilities so for detailed advice I'm at a loss. Besides, I never tanked a single thing. It feels... presumptuous to give advice on something I have never done.
I'm happy only a small minority of players look at these forums. Good post OP that being said
This kind of thread seems to point fingers at people who play a certain class (Tank) Breeds the kind of attitude that makes people think a tank WILL be a jerk which in turn, turns DPS ino jerks. I'm a new tank. Used to heal and even in lower level stuff I have seen DPS trying to do my job and barking orders at me. It isn't the class its this community as a whole. I keep my head down for the most part because of it.
not all tanks r so called "aholes" niethier r dps as they say 1 bad apple spoils the bunch ;/ ive met some really nice tanks, take the time to explain tactics to newbies on first runs etc, yet ive seen so many ppl get abused for bein new to a boss or wantin to watch a cutscene.. so i agree its the community more then class but that bein said in my experince the nice people outweigh the ehemms by far xD
As a WHM this last week has been an eye opener for me. I have just hit 50 and was running my lead up instances - should be easy right?
I was sadly mistaken.
Now I'm not stupid - I read forums and guides before I enter an instance so I have some idea of what the mechanics are, listen to advice on what to do, ALWAYS state 'first time in this instance' before anyone moves.
This week all I seem to be getting all the horrid tanks 'stupid healer just leave already so we can get someone who knows what they are doing.' Of course I obliged.
'the dps doesn't have protect and as a white mage with stoneskin that would be effing awesome too'. (just ask maybe?)
I don't need more stress put on me by stupid comments that do nothing to solve the problem - I have enough healer anxiety as it is, please don't treat me like I'm a moron when I clearly said 'First time in here'. All I want is to try to ensure no-one dies. But at the cost of my own sanity?
My rules as a DPS (for myself) is to say in the beginning of any dungeon, raid, etc. "If you guys need a song, just ask. I will be keeping track of your MP bars, but any other song needed, please ask. I would happily sing it for you." It makes it easier, because then there's communication and it makes my job easier. Not only that, I also ask for marking because it makes it easier for me to help attack the baddie that needs to be attacked first instead of accidentally agrro'ing.
So please remember Tanks, healers and other DPS, I can't see your TP bar, if you need me to sing Army, please tell me or I'll do something else that needs to be taken care of first instead of helping you. Also please mark! :3
Edit: and also, I never take anyone's job UNLESS they don't know a dungeon and need help and I see no progression in something because everyone is following the Tank and not stopping to ask if he knows what's he's doing or not. Because there's no shame in saying that you don't know something, because I'm sure everyone in the party would be glad to help you out if you ask nicely.
Tanks - When you see your healer getting eaten up by a mob stop smacking your current target and go help your healer. Even if it was due to an over heal, it happens.
DPS - When you see a tank who is new or not so good, instead of spiking his target with your UBER rotation of doom how about you slow it down a bit eh?
Healers - I know sometimes you accidentally misjudge incoming damage and you over heal the tank and pull aggro, but when you do it ALL THE TIME? Don't blame the tank when you get spanked and wipe the group. That Simple. Your Bad not the Tanks.
OP you make some great points but bad DPS can be just as annoying.
Pretty sure healers that regen you pre-fight are the worst. The absolute most intolerable people out there. Stahp, please
I think I've been lucky and have had extremely tolerable party members. I switch between playing my Summoner and Scholar depending on what I think I need to play for certain dungeons. Last one I managed to do was as a Scholar through Stone Vigil. I had the unfortunate end of not being able to read the final Boss' Stream attack since it was light blue on white which really is hard to see. I did that dungeon three times. First time was meh. I couldn't keep up with the healing, though we bit off more than we could chew, luring in two sets of mobs at a time. I'm surprised I DID manage to keep everyone alive. We wiped on boss and ran out of time, though it took us quite a while to travel through the dungeon in the first place. We got to the final boss with like 20 mins left.
Second time was a bit easier. Had a good group. Everything went well until we got to the Dragon with the cannons part. DPS didn't watch Cannons and I had to abandon healing to light one since I couldn't heal all four of us constantly enough to mitigate the damage the flying dragon was doing. I ended up leaving that one after about 5 failed attempts and got tired of listening to the DPS (both) constantly badmouth the Tank who was doing her job properly.
Final time I was with a group already partied. They said they were all related. Paladin and two bards. It was probably the most fun I'd had playing as a Healer. They were all kind and patient especially with the final boss since I still couldn't read her attacks. Finally managed to read her attacks and could even pull off a Resurrection mid battle. We beat her after three tries and all of us moved on happily. There was no negative smack talk.
Then there was the time I attempted to heal for Titan. The Tank then was so whiny. All he did was moan and complain about everything. It was my first time and I did forget to look up his battle before hand so I had no idea what I was in for. I fell off the first time and that started the moaning. Second time Me, and the two DPS all got killed at the same time by a Boulder Clap I think it was due to the 3 second lag. All three of us got out before the red lines disappeared but we all still took damage. Third time I was trying to res the Tank, one of the DPS fell off, and the third (a bard) was staying far away. while I attempted to res the Tank i got sealed and when the seal broke Titan did another Boulder Clap which caught me upon release. The Tank started screaming "Wipe" and throwing out insults. The Bard...killed Titan on his own. Running around avoding his attacks as best he could since Titan was below 5% health.
Some people just need to tone it down and try to enjoy the game.
There's really no need for an apology, OP. Jerks are jerks and they come in all roles -- tanks, healers, and dps. Unfortunately, tanks and healers are more prone to have the arrogance described in your first post simply because they are more 'in demand'. For some players, being needed is enough. They do not go above and beyond and if something goes wrong... it's always someone else's fault. I commend people who acknowledge and own their own mistakes. I commend those who ask questions (even if they may seem silly) rather than rushing in and hoping to 'fake it until they make it'.
CT in general is very tank-dependent. If the tanks don't know what to do, especially on KB, there are going to be issues. This is why you see the mistakes of tanks more clearly than other classes.
wow such a pain to read this thread as a tank.
i remember my first time in CT. i said in alliance chat: "hi. its my first time. dont hate me if i do something wrong please :("
to make it short. i tanked the first boss(ak dragon) in wrong direction and pretty much everybody got hit by tailswipe or whatever its called and we wiped. guess what? my chat was full of:
gz to fail noob
fuck you
retard
alliance C morons
why the fuck you dont know how to tank
quit tanking asshole
dumbass
and dont think all the shit came from tanks ;)
we get fucked by every single mistake we do. i fully understand if some of my fellow tanks turns out to be assholes too sooner or later. not that im one of them. im even calm if i join a party who couldnt finish amdapor 2.1 in time. dont missunderstand, i was yelling in my room xD but i never wrote something bad.
tanks are under surveillance every second just as healers are. quite easy to point at every mistake we do if we do.
guys sorry if you met so many douchebags but play as a tank yourself to feel some of the hate coming from dps too <3
Anuri has a point. It might just be that healers and tanks who aren't @ssH0les are weeded out by the brutality of other players during the rise to 50. You really need a thick skin just to get a healer up to 50 and I can't imagine leveling a tank past level 20 where everyone expects you to be the max geared expert of every dungeon you instance in. (One day I'll level a tank class past 20...)
Er... I've actually met lots of friendly tanks and healers, but the worst abuses always go on the tanks and healers. When the tank or healer dies it's, "OMG LRN 2 PLAY STOOPID DUM WIRTHLES NOOB TANK/HEALER". When a dps dies it's, "OMG LRN 2 PLAY STOOPID DUM WIRTHLES NOOB TANK/HEALER".
I think it just boils down to everyone needs to be a little nicer and a little more understanding. Yes, no one likes to waste their time and we all want to have fun and make progress. But no matter how new or how experienced any of us are, our play performance can always vary. Own up to it - even on your super derpy days and aim to help each other. :)
its obvious you dont play mnk....mnk silence is situational at best..the silence will ONLY proc if you did a full rotation, you need to be in the forth stance for it to be active, if u dont, its basically just a regular attack with no bonus....so basically you need to have perfect timing, just completed your closing skill(snap punch, demolish, or rock breaker) to have arm of the destroyer to proc with the silence
I've been lucky. So far. I've met one or two, but no where near as many as lot of people, I know that now that i've said this, My luck will probally spiral down the drain, But to those who MUST be monumental dicks just to improve their ego. I have to say this. Grow up.
Just because you think your god. Doesn't mean you ARE.
Friendly Bard here willing and able to buff when people need it (Apparently no one reads when I say that, cause i've gotten bitched at, at least once, And I DID ask.)
Try to be a team player and you get slapped. How ironic. Not going to stop tho.
(Apparently my profile didn't update my level. Crazy.)
I've noticed everyone wants to be the main tank in ct when it's pugged lol. It's gotten to the point where that's the first thing in /a chat ... I'm tanking lol or so an so is mt what would make sense is for them to tell Ilvl and the highest mt's
I run into that so much. So many times it is the tank that just leave. Also so many times I will offer to change to tank and re-join. Most of the time I can leave, swap to tank, select join in progress, and get the same group back. Saved one healer and dps from going back to the end of the line because of another tank idiot, and help another dps along the way that replaced me.
One thing that is making me never want to run AV again, is not the dungeon itself, it is the idiots. So many times, if I see a level 49 person, I start to cringe. Because I know the chances are extremely high that as soon as that person levels to 50, they will immediately just leave. Everyone is only out for themselves and everyone else is just there to help them get there.
This happens all the time. It never happened the first month of the game. But since? Seems like a but rush rash of this happening. When the fight ends and I still have regen, I click it off. If the WHM puts it back on just before I pull, I ask them to please stop it. Most of the time they will come back "I'm been healing games for 40 years and played healer in WoW since Orcs and Humans pre-alpha. This is what healers are supposed to do." I try to explain that as soon as the regen ticks, the adds will run to him before I can gather and, depending on which tank I am on, Overpower or Flash. When they still refuse, I finally show them. I tell them this is what happens when I pull a group with regen. I pull one with range, and watch as the rest make a beeline to healer. "See, this is why you don't regen pre-pull." Most still refuse to listen. Exact same situation for those DPS that want to pull before me.
Especially in cases like the first room of AV (Or DD away from crystals, etc.), where you really need to pull things back. Use Provoke to pull because it is longest range. Running back to group so that melees and everyone else can safely kill safely without getting adds. And guess who starts to unload before I even reach back to the group, nevertheless what I just pulled. Yep, DPS think they must do as much damage as soon as possible. Or the healer will try to help and throw a buff on me or regen.
I main a healer and I also enjoy tanking which is why I have a PLD and almost have the WAR to endgame level.
There are always going to be jerks, usually there's no point in discussing what is wrong with their attitudes and it's far better, more productive to just help out the people who are willing to listen to any advice you can provide.
I've been very fortunate that my friend has tanked for me and showed me the ropes as he had a tank to lvl 50 when I started playing so I wasn't a completely terrible healer. I have encountered some "higher than thou" tanks who refused to utilize the skills they have at their disposal and refuse to take any advice about their rotation for enmity holding.
Sometimes all you can do is just try to adapt your character's skills to the party you are given and hope for the best.
I must say that by playing the tank class, I learned a great deal about healing that I did not know and vice versa.
On a related note, maybe I just want to vent, I ran into the same kind of thing the other day with a BLM.
I just really enjoy running Titan HM, it's fun; but anyway, this dude refused to cast more than once on a gaol during Heart Phase, saying that it was "usually enough" and that he wanted to go back to DPSing heart. This was after I very nicely asked for him to "watch out for gaols", because honestly, I didn't seem him cast on my gaol once.
I was in the first gaol for what seemed like half the damn phase. Consequently, we died. Hell, as a BLM, if I get a proc up (I usually do) and use a swiftcast, I can hit a gaol at least three times; and guess what? That makes you survive the fight.
People get their little rotation beaten down so far into their brain that they sometimes refuse to act dynamically and handle mechanics, because it may keep them from doing MAX DEEPS. MAX DEEPS doesn't get ya through mechanics sometimes.
Whew okay I'm done.
Alexya? sound like porn star name c:
indirect apology accepted. Just made it to level 50, and 3/5 of the lv50 dungeons ive played have been wrecked by some obelisk-level dickhead of a Tank.
Thank god my second requeue of the dungeon gave me a supercool tank guy who took it easy and was informative.
I main tank most of the time. Granted I'm not the best tank in the world but I know when to slow things down in a dungeon. My issue is sometimes the DPS will try to rush things.
So far though I have been fairly lucky with most groups wanting to either take it slow or another tank main tanks while I understand the fight mechanics.
I am currently leveling 2 DPS classes and Have had no issues so far with tanks yelling at me since I played tank I know how most of the fights go.
So this goes both ways. I suck as a tank so if someone tells me something to help i will take it and try it. Never hurts. If we wipe once or twice no big deal lets go again.
Same goes as DPS if I am doing something wrong tell me and I will correct it.
Takes too long of time in dungeons now anyways to fight and argue over stupid crap so why not chill out and take it easy.
Yep, there are so many just plain...stupid?...people out there. You got your tanks who only attack one mob, and then wonder why people aren't happy with them, you got the healer who is too busy throwing stones/dots that they forget to heal, and the dps who stand in everything, or run for their life...away from the tank. Of course you have the holier than thou people that think just because they are tank or healer, or have done that job before that their way is best hands down no ifs ands or buts, that they will get their way no matter what. Well let me tell those people, you are in a party for a reason: because you can't do it alone.
Now in any given dungeon I run if I know a mechanic that other people don't I will try and explain it. If I believe I know how to fix something they are doing wrong on their class I will tell them, and tehn say something along the lines of "take my advice or don't, I don't care", and that generally keeps them from going all "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS!!!!!!111!!1!1!!!1" I live for the people who actually at least listen to what I have to say though and take it under advisement, because I love teaching people.
(double post because apparently I can't post over 1000 characters, seriously, wtf is that?)
I am of the opinion that you will become better at your chosen role if you also play the other two roles. Healing as a scholar in Coil has made me a better damage-dealer. Tanking will probably make me better at both.
I agree with this completely. Back in my early WoW days I only ever dpsed, mostly because I didn't want the responsibility of tanking or healing, but once I actually started healing, and much MUCH later, tanking, I found I was better overall, and if nothing else had a much higher respect for the other two roles.
Also ty Ryu for telling me about that.