Wat you miss when abandoning leves

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

lol, Zuth that wasn't meant for every LS on the server, just yours. Because you're special. :P

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:o I is special too right?

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

:o I is special too right?

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indeed sir, your posts are entertaining.

Leve failing is going away from a development standpoint, because it's a scav player's action to get a scav player's pittance. It's weak, derivative and against the spirit of the game to fail something that it was assumed you were going to try to win. When players cop out of the system and blatantly stop pretending the game isn't just a mechanism to get X, that's a weak mentality and a weak game.

I do it on dunes and levin because I'm not even motivated enough to finish 8 leves a reset as it is, and thus am not even making max faction points, and the group has done it as well so I want to pull my own weight. Plus enough people do those runs every reset that that faction's going to give **** points, since it'll be in first place.

I just wish the population weren't so anal about THA BEST no matter how silly it makes them look to achieve it. There are a horde of players who would kill themselves, strip naked, emote like buffoons, eat food till they puke, and other self-deprecating things just for a little attention and padding on their rewards.

What's the price for dignity these days? I'm sure it's next to nothing in this game, but still.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

indeed sir, your posts are entertaining.

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I am bored.. I don't think i'm trolling @_@ I'm just running on two hours of sleep donuts, mc donalds coffee, and well might play star craft idk might even come run around fabul :O to say hallo

EDIT: BTW >_> I'm not a fat ass JUST SAYING ._.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Maybe you need practice then, because you haven't come to a correct conclusion.


Funny thing is, I really only get flak from you so again, who is incorrect here? again, you sir are a douche.

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First, its clearly the right conclusion reached by 5 other LSes I can think of off the top of my head; nevermind the crap you puke all over yourself on threads - including this one. Every time you try to justify yourself and how you act you bankrupt yourself. Secondly, aside from this thread show me exactly where I have given you flak and I'll apologize profusely.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

lol, Zuth that wasn't meant for every LS on the server, just yours. Because you're special. :P

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See, there you going again proving my point for me. So let me get this right, you're threating my LS because of a forum argument but you think I have come to the wrong conclusion about you along with a myriad of others? Love how you defunct yourself every time you make a post.

Oh and I'm rubber you're glue what you say to me bounces... nevermind.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I am bored.. I don't think i'm trolling @_@ I'm just running on two hours of sleep donuts, mc donalds coffee, and well might play star craft idk might even come run around fabul :O to say hallo

EDIT: BTW >_> I'm not a fat ass JUST SAYING ._.

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Well, if you do it after I get home from work swing by the fountain outside the uldah adv guild. That's most likely where I'll be. My apparently pompous, arrogant a** likes to hang out in plain view drawing attention to myself all day. lol

...really though, that's the usual hang out spot for me and my people.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

whether you are leve failing or leve completing you are doing the same thing. you are killing mobs, but the ones failing kill one less. it that one mob per leve makes you dramatically worse then you have bigger problems than the leve itself. it's nowhere near as bad as the soloing to 50 on coblyns/doblyns. at least in a leve party you were in a ya know party.

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Logging in for 2 hours out of every 36 and following around in a group of 8 people to fight enemies which die in about 5 seconds doesn't teach you anything whatsoever. 2-5 person grind parties at least require you to use abilities. Obviously it's still not ideal, because the SP caps off far too early which discourages fighting harder enemies.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

what direction has the game headed since it was put out easier or harder? the game is and has been getting easier since yoshi took over so why should we expect him to change it now? don't believe me go check out the nm's pre nerf and post nerf. go check out the aggro icons. the game started too easy and has gotten even easier since then.

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I guess I'm a sucker but I'd still like to hold out hope that this doesn't hold true. They promised they would make future dungeon content more challenging, and I think a LOT of us are going to leave if it's as easy as the joke NMs we have now.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Anyway, have fun watching us outclaim you for NMs. (...oops, did I say that out loud?)

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Wait, people actually have claim wars over NMs that spawn multiple times per hour and have terrible drop tables and were released 6 months ago and have been nerfed so hard that they can mostly be done with 1-3 people? I doubt it. I'm on the same server as you are and the last few times I happened to pass through an NM area during its window nobody was there and it was wandering around.

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Originally Posted by Takelow

Yeah, in my point of view, you are wrong. You miss satisfaction to complete the leves, you miss variety since you repeat the three same leves indefinitely, and you miss the essence of the game "to be an adventurer that help the world where he lives".
Just my opinion ;)

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Hahaha....

@Takelow

Apparently we aren't good enough to fix the problem if it keeps happening :p

btw if you didn't just do the three you still confined to say what 9 or so from one given area?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Leve failing is going away from a development standpoint, because it's a scav player's action to get a scav player's pittance. It's weak, derivative and against the spirit of the game to fail something that it was assumed you were going to try to win. When players cop out of the system and blatantly stop pretending the game isn't just a mechanism to get X, that's a weak mentality and a weak game.

I do it on dunes and levin because I'm not even motivated enough to finish 8 leves a reset as it is, and thus am not even making max faction points, and the group has done it as well so I want to pull my own weight. Plus enough people do those runs every reset that that faction's going to give **** points, since it'll be in first place.

I just wish the population weren't so anal about THA BEST no matter how silly it makes them look to achieve it. There are a horde of players who would kill themselves, strip naked, emote like buffoons, eat food till they puke, and other self-deprecating things just for a little attention and padding on their rewards.

What's the price for dignity these days? I'm sure it's next to nothing in this game, but still.

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Its not even about THA BEST. Its about keeping leve parties quick and simple. I dont know about you, but I'd rather just focus on 3-4 leves and finish in an hour rather than drag it out over 3 hours doing every leve and getting terrible SP.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Logging in for 2 hours out of every 36 and following around in a group of 8 people to fight enemies which die in about 5 seconds doesn't teach you anything whatsoever. 2-5 person grind parties at least require you to use abilities. Obviously it's still not ideal, because the SP caps off far too early which discourages fighting harder enemies.

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can you show me where i said a thing about party grinding?

leve fail = leve complete with one less mob.
leve fail > than solo grind since it involves a party.

at no point did i say a thing about party grind, but of course you take my post and try to twist it into something it is not.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I guess I'm a sucker but I'd still like to hold out hope that this doesn't hold true. They promised they would make future dungeon content more challenging, and I think a LOT of us are going to leave if it's as easy as the joke NMs we have now.

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i think the majority of us want more challenging content, but i asked which direction the game is going not where we hope it will change to. they nerfed the nm's just because eventually the thing they were in discussions about possibly looking into then to consider preparing for initial basic features would maybe one day need them to be made easy. that's about as vague of what they are talking about as they are.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

leves are absurd. You should have to grind on mobs just like in every other FF game. This easy mode is bullcrap.

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only ff where you had to grind is ffxi, every other ffxi you would get enough exp just walking to the boss and fighting it to beat the game. For some of the extra stuff you had to grind.

I do agree leves as the best sp overall is not too good for the game itself. people dont touch 90% of the game.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

at no point did i say a thing about party grind, but of course you take my post and try to twist it into something it is not.

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I really didn't mean to suggest you were, so I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't trying to attack you or something, so there's no need for hostility.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Wait, people actually have claim wars over NMs that spawn multiple times per hour and have terrible drop tables and were released 6 months ago and have been nerfed so hard that they can mostly be done with 1-3 people? I doubt it. I'm on the same server as you are and the last few times I happened to pass through an NM area during its window nobody was there and it was wandering around.

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They sure do, we get into claim wars all the time with some of the asian LSes. It's happened a couple time with my little friend's LS as well (I think that's why he's really mad. Aside from the fact that a few of his members left counting Sheep for Abaddon.)

Those shitty drop tables are part of the reason why. If loots drops don't happen often you have to fight he same mob more to get the gear. On Saturdays there always seem to be at least two groups hunting the buffalo.

I view failing leves as cheating and the lazy way to play the game, might as well bot or conduct RMT. I have done the fail leve/repeat thing a few times though so I am not innocent in this.

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Originally Posted by SAMINUS

I view failing leves as cheating and the lazy way to play the game, might as well bot or conduct RMT. I have done the fail leve/repeat thing a few times though so I am not innocent in this.

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Right, because failing leves is like having someone else level for you or like afk leveling.... that makes no sense at all.

All you're doing by failing leves is making the game less monotonous by making the length of the grind shorter.

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Originally Posted by SAMINUS

I view failing leves as cheating and the lazy way to play the game, might as well bot or conduct RMT. I have done the fail leve/repeat thing a few times though so I am not innocent in this.

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you can look at it however you wish, but botting and rmt are against the tos and leve failing has been given approval of by the dev's. if you don't know cheating is not following the rules and this is not the case. i'm sorry you feel that you are above getting sp within the rules.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Right, because failing leves is like having someone else level for you or like afk leveling.... that makes no sense at all.

All you're doing by failing leves is making the game less monotonous by making the length of the grind shorter.

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AFK leveling isn't against the rules, so what's wrong with that? "All you're doing by AFK leveling is making the game less monotonous by making the length of the grind shorter."

I don't actually support AFK leveling, but doesn't the same logic apply? Both methods are within the rules and exploit flawed game mechanics to gain SP at a faster rate than normal play in a method nearly completely devoid of effort, so why is one any better than the other?

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I don't actually support AFK leveling, but doesn't the same logic apply? Both methods are within the rules and exploit flawed game mechanics to gain SP at a faster rate than normal play in a method nearly completely devoid of effort, so why is one any better than the other?

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I don't think it does. AFK leveling is against the ToS, failing leves is not. If you don't believe me, search the ToS for 'absentee play'.

...actually, I'll just quote it for you:

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Activities that destroy game balance
Activities that destroy game balance
Using third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited since they allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players. The use of programs or tools within FINAL FANTASY XIV that allow certain continuous actions to be performed automatically are often referred to as absentee play, which is also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Additionally, during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

The following activities are also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV.
•Modifying, analyzing, integrating and reverse engineering game data
•Utility creation and distribution
•Exploiting SQUARE ENIX programming that does not run as intended to gain profit or damage other players

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I don't think it does. AFK leveling is against the ToS, failing leves is not. If you don't believe me, search the ToS for 'absentee play'.

...actually, I'll just quote it for you:

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Setting someone to follow is not absentee play. Absentee play refers to performing actions while you are not at the keyboard (via automation, such as keyboard macros, or third-party software). This is the response that was given when my friend tried to report "certain people" (you know who I mean I'm sure) for auto-follow leveling. Needless to say, no action was taken against the auto-followers, and it wasn't a canned "report it to the STF" response, they explicitly told them that their behavior was within the rules.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

They sure do, we get into claim wars all the time with some of the asian LSes. It's happened a couple time with my little friend's LS as well (I think that's why he's really mad. Aside from the fact that a few of his members left counting Sheep for Abaddon.)

Those shitty drop tables are part of the reason why. If loots drops don't happen often you have to fight he same mob more to get the gear. On Saturdays there always seem to be at least two groups hunting the buffalo.

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Wait, what? I'm mad because your friend out-claimed some Asian LSes? And get the facts straight, every member but two (of which we still talk) were asked to leave. So you're welcome to all the cast-offs we have :) Again, I'm not mad at you Molly I don't know why you don't get this. I nothing you. Simply put you mean nothing to me.

So lets have a summery of this.

You assume I am talking about you when I mention leve linking and come shooting your mouth off.

I wasn't. I was talking about the original LS that did that and spread it.

Then I point out why so many other people dislike you and why you're thought of as a prick.

You can't or won't address it and brush it off as people are just jealous of you. Lol nice.

Then you further my point by "threatening" my LS because you're upset we had a spat on the forums and drawing people into it who don't even know whats going on.

Then you accuse me of always giving you flak when I never ever have. I ask you to point it out and you can't.

Then you try to assume I am upset because of some members who were told to leave ended up in your LS? Never mind the fact just about anyone who has ever left CS has been asked to, why would I try and draw anyone else into an argument which you started and can't even come close to finishing. Why would anyone care about someone who didn't want to be in CS? Your ego is hilarious and you don't seem to understand I don't care about you enough to actively attack you on open forums like so many other people have from several other LSes.

Do you honestly think this is all happenstance? Do you honestly think that people from so many other LSes don't like you because they're jealous? Do you want to honestly try and brag about your claiming skills and abilities when you struggle with -- using 8 people -- an NM I just DUOED the other night? You're desperate to make this personal but thats not what an LS leader does. That is why, even though I was muchly enjoying watching so many other LSes bash you (again must be them and not you), have never said anything publicly because you're suppose to be a public face to your LS and have some dignity. Not try and pick fights in an game that is an avenue of fun.

God, you are laughable. Watching you sink your own points is becoming a hobby now.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Setting someone to follow is not absentee play. Absentee play refers to performing actions while you are not at the keyboard (via automation, such as keyboard macros, or third-party software). This is the response that was given when my friend tried to report "certain people" (you know who I mean I'm sure) for auto-follow leveling. Needless to say, no action was taken against the auto-followers, and it wasn't a canned "report it to the STF" response, they explicitly told them that their behavior was within the rules.

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You mean MIKU? I'm not afraid to call them by name. lol What are they gonna do afk follow me around uldah? It's pretty clear when there are one or two pt members fighting and 6 to 7 in tow like I saw last night.


...and to the post above, drop it Zuth, quit being a douche.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

blah blah blah

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Obsess much? This was a terrible topic to begin with, now its a server sissy fight.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

...and to the post above, drop it Zuth, quit being a douche.

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Pretty much what I thought. You can't defend your own "douche" words. OUTSTANDING Molly.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

My Failings as a person? How would you know what kind of person I am? You don't know the first thing about me other than (a false) impression you got from a post I made in a recruiting thread. You sir, are a douche.

Anyway, have fun watching us outclaim you for NMs. (...oops, did I say that out loud?)

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Them fight'n words. Go get em vack!

If the devs say it's ok then I retract my statement. Never know what the devs really know on here or what they are "looking into."

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Leve failing is going away from a development standpoint, because it's a scav player's action to get a scav player's pittance. It's weak, derivative and against the spirit of the game to fail something that it was assumed you were going to try to win. When players cop out of the system and blatantly stop pretending the game isn't just a mechanism to get X, that's a weak mentality and a weak game.

I do it on dunes and levin because I'm not even motivated enough to finish 8 leves a reset as it is, and thus am not even making max faction points, and the group has done it as well so I want to pull my own weight. Plus enough people do those runs every reset that that faction's going to give **** points, since it'll be in first place.

I just wish the population weren't so anal about THA BEST no matter how silly it makes them look to achieve it. There are a horde of players who would kill themselves, strip naked, emote like buffoons, eat food till they puke, and other self-deprecating things just for a little attention and padding on their rewards.

What's the price for dignity these days? I'm sure it's next to nothing in this game, but still.

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On that note of goign against dev stand point, There was even a letter a while back where they were thinking about changing the death return function because suicide teleport returns just to save 1 anima "isnt very final fantasy like" So im sure going out and failing leves on purpose wouldnt be very final fantasy like too, considering Leves are basically job postings. I wish they had a rating system for your leves or something like a completion ratio, and as players keep their % closer to 100% then they get better rewards, of course no one could get 100% becaues of D/cs etc but at least tier it to maybe 85% completion and you get bonus SP or some sort of incentive to complete the leve. i dunno, people will continue to abuse the current system as there is no punishment but only reward (increased SP).

To put it simply, you miss out on millions of gil.

Both the small amounts accumulated over time, and the large sums accquired from selling faction gear.

So tens of millions of gil for sure, hundreds of millions if you persist long enough;

Keep up the good work! :D

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you can look at it however you wish, but botting and rmt are against the tos and leve failing has been given approval of by the dev's. if you don't know cheating is not following the rules and this is not the case. i'm sorry you feel that you are above getting sp within the rules.

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I think when dev's gave it the A-OK, its kinda like when Your watching TV and your wife is like "hey can i go out and get drunk." and your just all like "yes yes go ahead, leave me alone." lol

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I don't think it does. AFK leveling is against the ToS, failing leves is not. If you don't believe me, search the ToS for 'absentee play'.

...actually, I'll just quote it for you:

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Your right about absentee of play, however they were refering to the use of 3rd party programs, ie: bots
"The use of programs or tools within FINAL FANTASY XIV that allow certain continuous actions to be performed automatically are often referred to as absentee play, which is also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV"

But then i guess you would have to define "tool" i mean if i were afk lvling following you around then ide probably get banned XD j/k

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Originally Posted by longtallsally

I think when dev's gave it the A-OK, its kinda like when Your watching TV and your wife is like "hey can i go out and get drunk." and your just all like "yes yes go ahead, leave me alone." lol

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actually it was a multi sentence response into what it was originally, how it was changed, and why it was changed. sorry but that is fact. i'm not wasting my time to search these very forums for the response we were given. if you want to look it up and prove yourself wrong you are welcome to.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

actually it was a multi sentence response into what it was originally, how it was changed, and why it was changed. sorry but that is fact. i'm not wasting my time to search these very forums for the response we were given. if you want to look it up and prove yourself wrong you are welcome to.

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lol wow it was a joke man =p but if anyone could have a link to the Devs stance on this that would be great.

(textwall - sorry but this sucks on Fabul)

I don't think the problem is really the same on every server, as this thread sort of illustrates...

First off, people can leve abandon all they want, I didn't purchase your game. Play it to your heart's content however you want, but at the same time, I'm gonna go ahead and say why I don't do it.

Not every player, or even most, but I can safely say very many players on my server use the leve abandoning system religiously to rank up battle jobs to 50, and it is very clear that they haven't done anything but fight an assortment of the exact same mobs over and over and don't understand what the class is about, just completing a single task with that class. Like I said, not my game, play however you want. You need 50s that bad, more power to you.

There really isn't enough content to carry a bunch of high rank players on the server, though, or really even occupy 20 decent players at any given time. I understand instanced dungeons are to come, and that's great, I get a hopefully tough scenario all to myself. Right now, there's no real purpose in reaching 50 aside from just doing it, and hopefully that job will be useful in future content, but the content isn't going to be just dogs and necrologos pages (hopefully), and I'd rather myself and LS mates be prepared to use whatever tactics our jobs are capable of in many different situations, and understand how each job can contribute fully. Once again, not everyone's cup of tea. Cool.

Here's where it enters my world, and frankly it's a pain. You get a full 200 people in a single shell (1 split into 2 pearls) doing this and then you get a very high percentage of people who have no idea what they are doing. Ok, tolerable... Then you wait for future content, knowing each of these people will want a "full 50 set" of whatever comes out for every 50 job they have. Fine. Then you look at the threads one day and see -

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Anyway, have fun watching us outclaim you for NMs. (...oops, did I say that out loud?)

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I mean, come on. The NMs run free on our server and if you have any problem claiming them against JPs it's probably because they do it for fun, and have about the same respect for you as the NA linkshells. And we're talking about the nerfed, easy-mode NMs who drop gear that's barely worth an inventory spot, and you bring 8 people and the kitchen sink and can still barely limp to kill.

I hope you can see how competing with this type of mentality makes the server as a whole less enjoyable. No MMO is great all the time, but watching people crash on burn on content this easy makes me a little sad. It really comes down to SE's ratio of how easy it is to get to 50 vs. how easy 50 rank content is. When you make the game easy, you draw players who want an easy game. Currently, both getting to 50 and the content(or lack thereof) at 50 is simple, and I really don't see the need to give or use shortcuts.

I see leve failing like using your calculator to do your checkbook. Yeah, it's the fastest, and maybe even smartest, way to balance your account, but the problem isn't that you're using a calculator, it's that you're looking at the game like a frickin' CHECKBOOK. Until reaching 50 has more meaning to it, it's about the same thing. I'd rather just do it manually and make sure I can still add and subtract at the end of the day.

Doesn't matter what any of you think, SE already said they are looking into balancing the leves. And to SE, balancing doesn't mean improving the shitty ones. I see eight leves about tho get their asses handed to them in the future, aka nerfed. And they need to be nerfed anyways, might get some of you to quit running the same stupid shit all the time and complaining about how bored you are.

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Originally Posted by Raze

the truth

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+1

I already accepted the fact that after I worked my ass off on rank 50 crafts people came in and botted them and have never been banned for it. I also totally accept the fact that I worked my ass off (and still do) grinding combat ranks and people AFK level/bot/abuse leves for equivalent ranks. That shit doesn't bother me, or I wouldn't continue to grind and take full satisfaction from it. What bugs me is watching the level of play steadily decline around me. Sure, there were plenty of bad LSes pre-nerf, and we all had our fun giggling to ourselves while "congratulating" linkshells for their first 15-man Uraeus kill. But this new breed of failure is just depressing.

I miss being able to laugh at 15mans taking 26 minutes to kill Uraeus. At least they didn't have to claim bug it.

I might be naive but I hope a lot of this drama will evaporate when SE actually provides us with enough content to occupy our attention/energy.

As it is, dedicated linkshell members seem to have nothing better to do than bitch at each other on forums and crap all over some random poor sap's recruitment/app threads.

I don't know much about the drama on Fabul and I don't really care to. All I will say is that the way people come off on Mumble/Vent/LS chat and the way people come off on forums is often VERY DIFFERENT. And I'm sure this is true for people on whatever side their on.

RL - two beers and a barbeque and there wouldn't be any problems.

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Originally Posted by Raze

When you make the game easy, you draw players who want an easy game. Currently, both getting to 50 and the content(or lack thereof) at 50 is simple...

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Meanwhile we have to create our own challenges (unsanctioned PvP).

Don't hate the players hate the game.

Fabul... FTMFW

And people think our server's dead XD

Rewarding failure is a very poor game design. Compare when you fail a local leve to when you fail a regional leve. Failing a regional leve, you'd probably go "meh, I'd get it next go around" or "I did that on purpose cuz this is how we XP". Local leves on the other hand, when you fail more than two synths you'd probably go "FUUUUUUU-!" because chances are those are lost free SP, crafting mats, and a chance at the guild marks that you need bazillions of to buy all the trainings. Local leves success/failure incentives are decently well balanced so that you want to successfully complete them. Regional leves on the other hand are poorly balanced in success/failure incentives, such that failure doesn't mean anything outside of faction leves.

Compare the reward/penalty system of regional leves to dying and not dying in a fight: not dying means you downed the mob, get the loot, earn XP, get recognition; dying means you will incur some sort of penalty, which in this game is minor gear durability loss along with a 3 minute weakness period where you can't really do anything. In addition, you need to return to the last aethryte you touched, which could possibly mean a long trek back to wherever you were fighting. As a result, people don't like dying. This is a good reward/penalty system that encourages success and avoiding failure. Failing a regional leve gives... no penalty, other than the fact if you want to complete it you would have to reset it after leve reset. Sure you won't get the money or the faction credit or guild marks, but in the current state of the game, all three are pretty worthless.

A possible solution to this is to do something similar to local leves where failure means you lose that leve, no trading it in, no rewards from it, no additional do-overs with the same mobs you just killed. Or if they wish to keep the ability to redo the leve, then make it so that on repeats, you earn no SP from the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Punxsutawney

Doesn't matter what any of you think, SE already said they are looking into balancing the leves. And to SE, balancing doesn't mean improving the shitty ones. I see eight leves about tho get their asses handed to them in the future, aka nerfed. And they need to be nerfed anyways, might get some of you to quit running the same stupid shit all the time and complaining about how bored you are.

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QFT. SE basically created an exploit. I would be genuinely surprised if they did nothing about it.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Rewarding failure is a very poor game design.

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Reminds me of how they commented on bloodwarping/deathgating/whatever you want to call it. That killing yourself wasn't very Final Fantasy. Neither is purposely failing.