PVP, and how Gimped MELEE is.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

shhh dont tell them how to play!!.. i wanna farm them for AP and pvp rank!
:p

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Until you count in SPRINT, then the whole "Fist of wind = You're in range all the time" doesn't actually work sadly. With invigorate and the pvp tp regain you can sprint at least once to keep up but thats a lot of stuff to pop to keep up and it only works for so long, otherwise your stuck using stunning fist to temporarily catch up.

You can get pvp skills to break sleep. There is also resistance materia. It will be fine once everyone levels. Mages melt and get auto interrupt on even with surecast so the only way for one to get a hit off against a competent group is to sleep.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

You realise how dumb you sound right? CC is and should be coded differently when the target is a player, no CC should last more then 8 seconds when the recipient is a player.

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Because FFXIV is a Slow style game I thing it should be something like this (a wow style DR) first sleep is 10 sec's if slept again within 20 sec the sleep will be 5 sec. Then if slept again within 20 sec the sleep will be 2.5 sec, then you are immu to sleep spell for 20 sec's. After that DR will drop off and the cycle will repeat. You can however sleep someone then sleep a different target and still get full 10 secs. That is how it should work in PvP.

After spending most of the morning doing quest and misc stuff, I finally got to try PvP and I'm really loving it. Oh and I'm on MNK. If you have issues keeping up Sprit + Invigorate. Buy purify skill 1st this helps a lot with sleep. Bring potions. Also Don't show up in ilvl90 gear to do PVP, I notice a difference in the PvP ilvl55 gear that you can craft/buy. Only issue I had was a damn PLD chasing me and Shield Lob /sadface.

I absolutely LOVE PvP, I think SE did a great job.

However, I also believe that sleep is far too over-powered. Yes, I know the ways around it (I keep my distance so I'm less likely to be taken out after being slept and then go after the BLM and interrupt the hell out of him) and I'm already skilling into the actions that resist it. That's all well and good, but sleep is near game-breaking at lvl 1. It doesn't matter if it balances out after you level up, it has to be balanced out at ALL levels. If one skill is becoming the cornerstone of the competitive circuit, it's clearly OP.

It isn't just melee. The whole system is a joke. PvP doesn't play like pvp it plays like run in a circle and cast sleep for your fun type of combat. Nothing else.

What they should have done was just create 50 lvls of pvp ranks, start at lvl 1 with 2-3 abilities and then the skill selection menu we have now but with more skills. and level up our characters with specific pvp skills. Not PvE skills.

If they change Swiftcast now and or any other skills, it will also effect how it works in PvE.

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Originally Posted by Syrellaris

It isn't just melee. The whole system is a joke. PvP doesn't play like pvp it plays like run in a circle and cast sleep for your fun type of combat. Nothing else.

What they should have done was just create 50 lvls of pvp ranks, start at lvl 1 with 2-3 abilities and then the skill selection menu we have now but with more skills. and level up our characters with specific pvp skills. Not PvE skills.

If they change Swiftcast now and or any other skills, it will also effect how it works in PvE.

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They have the ability to change the ability specifically for pvp, and not affect PVE

If you get sleeped you shout for a dispell to your healer. If your healer couldn't react. Just keep ranking up to get the new PVP ability to get out of sleep.

There is no issue with Melee Class. By spaming few instant button, you can shut down a Caster/Healer...
Check this guys win rate...
http://www.twitch.tv/pacmangtv

Even so, why not just create a whole new skill set specifically for pvp. It would also make it more fun, instead of this lets run around in circles sleeping fest. I see people saying they love it, but honestly I do not see whats fun about it. I played more fun pvp matches in World of Warcraft Arena and I hated a lot. I always thought not a single company could make pvp worse then what WoW did with arena's, but Square just proved me wrong and made it worse.

Try using potions to cure sleep? There are all kinds, Echo drops for silence, theres also one for paralyze. etc etc

just get a heal. i dont know why people are sayin melees are gimped in pvp, got a lot of recommendations because i kept killin 3 - 4 persons when not meetin premades with my drag.

All i'm seeing in this thread, is a LOT of people who don't PVP. Arenas is a 'team' based game. If you are trying to work as a single player rather than with your team, of course you'll get bodied by all of us taking ADVANTAGE of you sucking. I just went through a bunch of arenas in a PLD, Mnk, Drg, Sch set up, and we never lost to anyone except teams with blm on it... and once we realized that in those teams we had to focus down the blm instead of the healer first, blm based teams started to die by us fast.

Mnk and Drg Burst in PVP is disgusting. I've been doing 1.2k Full Thrust Crits on Whms and Blms after they are stunlocked down. Usually against a blm what we'll do is mark the blm... rush him and stick our pld on the healer. The pld can stunlock the healer at least for a good ten seconds straight before DR stops him. Usually the other dps will be trying to take out our whm.. their 'single' dps, while me and the mnk are taking down the blm... if the whm hp dips below 75%, we do a hard switch off the blm to the whm real quick to kill him unexpectedly before turning back to blm.

tl;dr, l2p.

P.S. As melee invest in the ability 'Weapon Throw'. It places 'heavy' on anyone running away from you if you hit them from behind... in addition to that, if they have sprint on, it REMOVES their sprint from them...

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Mnk and Drg Burst in PVP is disgusting. I've been doing 1.2k Full Thrust Crits on Whms and Blms after they are stunlocked down. Usually against a blm what we'll do is mark the blm... rush him and stick our pld on the healer. The pld can stunlock the healer at least for a good ten seconds straight before DR stops him. Usually the other dps will be trying to take out our whm.. their 'single' dps, while me and the mnk are taking down the blm... if the whm hp dips below 75%, we do a hard switch off the blm to the whm real quick to kill him unexpectedly before turning back to blm.

tl;dr, l2p.

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If player talks about l2p, bad player is bad.
Then screen shot win/match
Else player is tooting his own horn.

Tip to monks. Rotation suggestion when against magic users

[Arm of the Destroyer] > [One-Iim Punch] > [Demolish] > [Arm of the Destroyer] > [One Iim Punch] > [Snap Punch]

yes, arm of the destroyer is an AOE And any attack can interrupt casts, but arm of the destroyer inflicts silence for 1 second, so they wont be able to cast a new spell right away or even use swiftcast. Plus, arm of the destroyer has a greater range then melee attacks. Don't use it when someone is nearby that is sleeped or you'll wake them up.

One iim punch is something you should SPAM as a monk in pvp.

[Perfect Balance] > [One Iim Punch] spam is something you should do. Only use perfect balance for one iim punch to remove every buff from a target. Stoneskin, Hallowed Ground, Protect, take away everything.

Keep fists of wind up so people cant run away, prepare sprint -> invigorate or use [Steal Peak] to stop users from running. If they turn around use [Weapon Throw] to stop their progress and close the gap.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

If player talks about l2p, bad player is bad.
Then screen shot win/match
Else player is tooting his own horn.

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If player thinks that 'learning' equates to someone being bad, then player seems like the ignorant type that refuses to learn and can never get better?

I feel weird saying this, but other than lack of variation, pvp is fine. Team coordination, composition and skill make a massive difference. My group got wrecked by sleep first few times we encountered it, now it's like "lol".

Healers were getting rocked in 5 seconds, now they don't, i see a lot of teams understanding how to protect their healer and healers realizing they need to play smart.

I've had 8 min matches with well balanced teams, the deciding factor always ended up being someone screwing up just enough to die.

My group lost twice to the same premade, we switched 1 class and tried a different strategy to counter them and rocked them.


My suggestions: stop solo queuing, find a few friends and start playing with them. Without really good team co-ordination you will be destroyed. Depending on the other team, starts change, but running like an idiot after me will get you killed.

Nothing makes me laugh harder than the whole team deciding to focus me when i run in the center, and getting aoe slept.
Lean to focus, learn who is the biggest threat at points in the fight, having a tank on that healer might prevent him from healing, but that blm/smn might cause more issues, so it might be best to heal debuff the whole team and focus down the mage. But now the healer can swiftcast res the dead mage or the smn the healer. So maybe put pressure on the healer to blow his swiftcast then go kill him the blm. etc..

Learn what the turning points are, learn the CCs and learn the starts people use, figure out what composition you can make to deal with as many as possible. You'll most likely not win every match against a good team with a composition that exploits your weak points, but you won't get rocked.

deleted.....

It's the positional update lag all over again.
I don't know what they "changed", but you can still be hit by Titan's landslide when you're out of it by double the distance it covers (and get sent flying almost perpendicular to it's original direction) sometimes. Same for trying to use melee skills on the move - you start the swing animation only to be interrupted a split second later, even if on YOUR screen you appear to be moving perfectly on top of your target. Times like this I start to miss WoW (heck, every other WoW clone out there, even) that actually allowed melee to land attacks on moving targets...

Apparently, SE's network code is so bad no tweaking can help if you don't use VPN or have a minimal number of hops with no packet loss to Montreal.

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Originally Posted by Xenobius

It's the positional update lag all over again.
I don't know what they "changed", but you can still be hit by Titan's landslide when you're out of it by double the distance it covers (and get sent flying almost perpendicular to it's original direction) sometimes. Same for trying to use melee skills on the move - you start the swing animation only to be interrupted a split second later, even if on YOUR screen you appear to be moving perfectly on top of your target. Times like this I start to miss WoW (heck, every other WoW clone out there, even) that actually allowed melee to land attacks on moving targets...

Apparently, SE's network code is so bad no tweaking can help if you don't use VPN or have a minimal number of hops with no packet loss to Montreal.

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Maybe you should zoom out your camera?

Well no, the code is really really changed and as a melee the difference is quite massive. Also melees, just sayin, get crit and skill speed, a lot of skill speed + selene is pretty incredible in pvp.

All I'm seeing here is people trying to solo in team based pvp then crying how pvp is broken. You are going to get your butts kicked by organised teams.

Oh yes OP. Melee classes are most definitely gimped in the Wolves Den.

http://i.imgur.com/fPavAAi.jpg

Totally.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

Oh yes OP. Melee classes are most definitely gimped in the Wolves Den.

http://i.imgur.com/fPavAAi.jpg

Totally.

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playing one game totally proves that melee's aren't gimped.

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Originally Posted by iRanOverYourMom

playing one game totally proves that melee's aren't gimped.

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premade ...with BLM on it too :D

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

premade ...with BLM on it too :D

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what black mage? did you read that image correctly? it was 3v4, kid.

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Originally Posted by iRanOverYourMom

playing one game totally proves that melee's aren't gimped.

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http://i.imgur.com/LwVQ656.png

its okay im here all week

Hi guys Black mage here, And id just like to say that op is 100% correct, I actually try to refrain from using sleep because i think its a bullshit tactic, sure its a tactic and its cool but how about only letting us use the pvp sleep? 300 second cooldown and only lasts for 10-20 seconds. Thats not bad actually. also, If i do end up sleeping It comes down to me getting slept myself, then a warrior staying on my face the entire time stunning me at every turn. Pvp does need some work Sleep needs to go away, Swiftcast can stay not a really a problem Res is annoying but i understand why its there.

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Originally Posted by iRanOverYourMom

playing one game totally proves that melee's aren't gimped.

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Other way around it's the same thing. Pvp is out for almost 24 hours. Yet everything is gimped overpowered unbalanced broken etc.

sleep resistance materias....

So much clueless people its impressive

Sleep resistance materias
Candy (pvp food)
Shadowflare
Direct heal on a toon (cure / physick)
Clean
Purity
Smelling Salts
Fetter Ward

If you do have a problem with sleep still, just quit. The main problem in pvp is the knockback.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

So much clueless people its impressive

Sleep resistance materias
Candy (pvp food)
Shadowflare
Direct heal on a toon (cure / physick)
Clean
Purity
Smelling Salts
Fetter Ward

If you do have a problem with sleep still, just quit. The main problem in pvp is the knockback.

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This is true, Dat knockback, And as many problems as I have had and yes i yelled out bullshit quite a few times. I got in there with my FC and we were having fun.. At the end of the day thats what your supposed to do, Get your friends together and have a good time

Smelling salts does not work..I have 5, they are unable to be used. It's like you are trying to claim it works to negate the fact that sleep is op.

So op I spend my time to rush blm straight at the start so he waste sleep on me and then Purity / good bye. Its that op

Also you are so bent up in one of the issues you are forgetting the rest. Some melee classes have issues with disconnects. It's quite unfair because the animation is so long on some attacks.

Lol please show me your vids. Show me your screen shot of win/match ratio. Because as of now you are b/sing on the forums

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

[Perfect Balance] > [One Iim Punch] spam is something you should do. Only use perfect balance for one iim punch to remove every buff from a target. Stoneskin, Hallowed Ground, Protect, take away everything.

Keep fists of wind up so people cant run away, prepare sprint -> invigorate or use [Steal Peak] to stop users from running. If they turn around use [Weapon Throw] to stop their progress and close the gap.

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You can't remove Hallowed Ground. OIP has to do damage for it's effect to trigger.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

So much clueless people its impressive

Sleep resistance materias
Candy (pvp food)
Shadowflare
Direct heal on a toon (cure / physick)
Clean
Purity
Smelling Salts
Fetter Ward

If you do have a problem with sleep still, just quit. The main problem in pvp is the knockback.

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Smelling Salts do not work in PVP. Stop spreading misinformation.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

Lol please show me your vids. Show me your screen shot of win/match ratio. Because as of now you are b/sing on the forums

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I'll record some things for you.

I dunno, even as my tank, as long as I hit a action on the healer while they are casting, it messes them up pretty bad.
Heavy swing... (LOL TAKE THAT!)

Honestly as SMN my worst enemy right now aside from BLM is MNK. I don't consider ranged too powerful. BRD damage goes down if they're too far, blm and smn are super squishy and get targeted a lot.

Monk and War combined do very well yeah, need nothing more to tear someone apart.

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Smelling Salts do not work in PVP. Stop spreading misinformation.

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Good to know, I've read that everywhere on the forums but didn't try myself, since well, a single normal heal remove sleep.