[dev1075] Limit Breaks or Overdrive Mode

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Matsui let us know that this would be an idea that they will look into after the battle adjustments take place.

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Exciting! Thank you very much Rukkirii.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

WITH THE POWER OF GREYSK.... THE TWELVE!!!! ... I HAAAAVE THE POWEEEEEER~! (TP gauge lv.5 <flashing yellow/whitish>)

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Your raging demon attack misses.
The bunny hit you for 2 damage.
You hit the bunny for 34 damage.
You receive pointless loot x3.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Matsui let us know that this would be an idea that they will look into after the battle adjustments take place.

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AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAAAH

Mission accomplished

If you guys Implement this call it the " HIDDEN POWER METER " ^^ J/K

I like the idea for 5k TP you could even balance it's over usage with a high cool down timer..

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Originally Posted by Malevolance

If you guys Implement this call it the " HIDDEN POWER METER " ^^ J/K

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No way, they should call it the Impossible to Gauge Gauge :P

just making a 3000tp move that you can spam over and over again is not what i would call fun.
I really rather see something like a 2hr ability that is job specific, maybe 1.5 to 1 hr would be nice yes maybe something along the lines of the abilities xi had(30 sec invic for pld wasnt too over the top that it could be overly exploited, perfect fit).
Now a 30 hit omnislash tp overdrive move no thanks, save that for the next offline ff but something within reason that fits the game and corrisponds with the class sure would be nice.

I agree with another forum mate that posted about it seeming like every good idea, you'll see some a$$ shoot it down.
Some actually seem like they want the game to stay bland and boring wtf is wrong with these ppl i just dont understand why some want the game to stay like it is and die.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

just making a 3000tp move that you can spam over and over again is not what i would call fun i really rather see something like a 2hr ability that is job specific maybe 1.5 to 1 hr would be nice yes i'll say it on the level that the abilities in xi had. Now a 30 hit omnislash tp overdrive move nothanks save that for the next offline ff but something within reason that fits the game and corrisponds with the class surewould be nice.

I agree with another forum mate that posted about it seeming like every good idea you see some a$$ that shoots it down some actually seem like they want the game to stay bland and boring wtf is wrong with these ppl i just dont understand why some want the game to stay like it is and die.

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Very well said: The game needs to thrive and evolve. I think the majority of the trolls are just customers from other MMOs plotting against FFXIV. I have just began putting them on my "Ignore" list as of late and completely ignore anything they say :)

Clash's idea was so good that the DEVS in charge of battle mechanics approved it! Enough said :D

Message to trolls: You lost :D

Hidden power Gauge sounds pretty spiffy, to me.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Very well said: The game needs to thrive and evolve. I think the majority of the trolls are just customers from other MMOs plotting against FFXIV. I have just began putting them on my "Ignore" list as of late and completely ignore anything they say :)

Clash's idea was so good that the DEVS in charge of battle mechanics approved it! Enough said :D

Message to trolls: You lost :D

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If by "approved" you mean "said they'd look into," sure. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

If by "approved" you mean "said they'd look into," sure. . .

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Yep. That's what he meant. All I wanted was for them to get wind of my idea. The fact that Matsui himself heard it just took my excitement to a whole new level.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Hidden power Gauge sounds pretty spiffy, to me.

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Agreed :3

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

If by "approved" you mean "said they'd look into," sure. . .

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Umm O _ o; ok... ?LOL?

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Yep. That's what he meant. All I wanted was for them to get wind of my idea. The fact that Matsui himself heard it just took my excitement to a whole new level.

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Thanks :3 Still excited about your idea Clash!

This is going to be awesome when we get limit breaks or overdrive OR BOTH :D

Those mechanics MADE the old FF games SO AWESOME! It will bring back a sort of nostalgia. Everyone in Linkshell is going crazy over it :D

I'm glad to see that they're going to look into this. =)

@AreeyaJaidee Please learn that a person with an opinion that differs from your own is not a troll.

If this gets implemented its just one of the things that will make the game fun to play also it will add a new aspect of combat to the gameplay, We will be taking about this on the hidden power podcast, Ill post a link to the show we did on the battle reform blueprint , we will be doing show today on [dev1075] Limit Breaks or Overdrive Mode and cover a few more thing currently going on in game currently. ^^ just trying to keep the community going and be positive.


Battle Reform Blueprint Part 1
http://podcastmachine.com/podcasts/8262/episodes/46965

Battle Reform Blueprint Part 2
http://podcastmachine.com/podcasts/8262/episodes/46966

Battle Reform Blueprint Part 3
http://podcastmachine.com/podcasts/8262/episodes/46967

Battle Reform Blueprint Part 4
http://podcastmachine.com/podcasts/8262/episodes/46968

Itunes Link
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/h...og/id418778032

Wouldn't that be what Tp is?

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Originally Posted by Seikninkuru

Wouldn't that be what Tp is?

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The question your asking was answered on page 3 by multiple people when the post was created .....

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

TP moves are like abilities with a cost. I think what the OP is looking for is an alternate system that's more of a reward for meeting requirements like limit breaks in FFVII and FFIX (9 not 11) and a few others where you get a single special move that really changes the pace of the battle and makes your class shine like 2 hours in FFXI does, but in a different way. Not like weapon skills in FFXI, where you can use energy for a single insignificant special attack, then repeat.

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Seikninkuru-

KorPoni pretty much took the words out of my mouth for this post. There are also a number of different posts in this thread that address your comment.

Some really good ideas in here! I've often pondered about things like this, but never thought we'd get a good discussion going on about it, very nice to see.

I think a good addition to this would be if the "limit bar" worked in kind of a chunk system. This was touched on a little earlier, but I feel it has a lot of potential considering an MMO system based on strong progression. By this I mean, you get one bar/chunk at r25, two at r40, and one more at r50. This could give a nice additional incentive to hit a new rank tier, and get that warm feeling inside, instead of just higher stats and access to new gears. "Yeeaauuhh, finally r40, I 'cant wait to try out my new tier two supah move!"

This could pretty easily be added to at anytime in the games late future, as rank caps go up, battles get deeper, and players crave more giant red buttons to press. Also, to further reward players countless victories, you can always choose to use a tier one attack even at r50, and save your other two for later.

Different tiers could either be just suped up versions of each other, or different moves entirely. Like; T-1=boom attack> T-2=advanced battle stance/mode to enter for a duration (like has been mentioned)> T-3= bang bang attack/self destruct mode. Yeah that's some colorful word play, but you get the idea.

As far as timing is concerned, I think fifteen minutes of straight grinding mobs that=your rank, should fill up one chunk. If they could implement a system similar to FF-X, where you choose how the bar would fill, even better! And give each class a prime mode. GLA would receive 100% input in "receive damage mode" but could switch to MRD "deal damage mode" for a penalty of like a 70% charge speed. Classes already have set affinities, so those values could easily be copied over if you feel like using another jobs "overdrive mode". So you still have freedom of playstyle, but it encourages strategy and playing your job to its specified role. Like LNC would be prime when using status and buff moves, PGL when using TP attacks, THM status effect and things like that.

mm also, how about some class exclusive tonics and brews, that we buy with our guild marks, and help charge the bar (and using would probably have to give something similar to medicated effect in XI). And lets add some flavor to these, like a MRDs tonic is a frothy brew, CON would have some weird green potion, THM would throw some ashes in the air, DRK would bite off a bats head, etc..

also yet again, If something like this ever does come our way, I vote now that, though the bar shouldn't deplete while in passive mode, it does get erased upon changing zones or entering any kind of instanced fight. Nothing would get me "out of the mood" for a huge boss fight, like farming limit break bar would for forty-five minutes.

Matsui ftw.

It must be frustrating for the dev team to have to rework their years worth of progress.

I think they are all looking forward to these battle changes as much as we are.

It will allow them to create new and exciting mechanics and content, which all devs enjoy the most.

I hope they implement over drives, but I hope they make it a flashy skill and not just copy and paste an animation. ;X

Losing limit bar on entering instance = good idea.

In FFVII, limit gauge filled as you took damage. It should fill more quickly the worse shape you're in, and be set up as a "desperation" move, rather than as a farmed TP-style move.

In FFVI and FFVIII it had a % chance of kicking in based on the character's invisible "crisis level". This approach would allow players some control over activating their limit abilities, but would also entail some additional risk on their parts.

Of course, in a FFX style system of deliberately farming for overdrive, the devs could counter pre-farming by putting the enemies into overdrive after they're hit by overdrive moves, and balance the overdrive gauges to fill up toward the end of a battle, encouraging players to save it for a finishing blow or risk making the fight more difficult.

Limit Breaks/Overdrives, To make things fair, It should not be farmed and saved for use. If you're not using it, it should deplete over time in a moderate rate. But let TP stay instead. I think A fair way to break your limits is by taking damage, and by using TP.

To make it fun, I think it would be cool if we can upgrade our limit breaks the more times we use them to learn different ones and even quest some powerful ones as well.

thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Limit Breaks/Overdrives, To make things fair, It should not be farmed and saved for use.
thoughts?

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I completely agree that the limit gauge should not be farmed. The last thing I want to create is the need to make an extra and time consuming preparation for a big fight. There are a few ways to avoid this. The one that I think is by far the best option is for it to reset when initially engaging NM's or bosses. This is very similar to how you can heal someone outside of a party on all other occasions except for when they are engaged in an NM fight. After the initial engagement of the NM or Boss your bar would fill up normally. Obviously this would mean that the actual time that it takes for the bar to charge would have to be roughly the duration of an NM or Boss Fight. Would everyone agree with this?

Omnislash, that is all...

ok i lied, maybe you could tie the LB/ODs to the TP bar but up the max from 3000 to 6000/9000. The acquisition of them could also take a lot of effort too, Guild marks or perhaps a sqecial quest that leads you to an item of power that infuses you with the ability which then also leads into a boss fight.

According to what I see here, alot of people would like to have the Overdrive available through means outside grinding. Here's what I think: to have it available for everyone and benefit them all like so:
-Casual Players: Overdrive automatically resets every 12 hours, on a timer similar to Behest, Guildleves, Anima, and Guardian's Favor, and checkable through /clock
-Regular Players: In addition to the reset timer, it can be grinded to be used multiple times per day.
With these options above, no one would be sitting around waiting to use Overdrive. Either you're casual and it's sitting there waiting on you when you get on, or your a grinder and you're not waiting hours on end for that reset timer.

Also I believe all overdrives shouldn't be single moves, but buffs that last depending on "tier" of overdrive you're on (going by someone who posted about Overdrive having Tiers). Tier 1 is 1 minute, 2 is 1 minute 15 seconds, 3 is 1 minute 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

Omnislash, that is all...

ok i lied, maybe you could tie the LB/ODs to the TP bar but up the max from 3000 to 6000/9000. The acquisition of them could also take a lot of effort too, Guild marks or perhaps a sqecial quest that leads you to an item of power that infuses you with the ability which then also leads into a boss fight.

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While I and a lot of different people do not agree with the expansion of the TP bar, I agree with the later part of your message. I strongly agree that the limit breaks should be achieved through special quests. They should not be easily achieved and should be something that makes you feel accomplished when executing them.

I really like this idea. Limit Breaks were always one of my favorite things in FF games. And I second that your suggestions, KorPoni, were great.

I wonder if something similiar could be created for DoH and DoL? Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by ZethLyons

I wonder if something similiar could be created for DoH and DoL? Hmmm...

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That's quite the interesting idea? perhaps that could add variation to the monotony of crafting.

Instead of making it time based, it should be "charged" as you perform BR on a specific target. This way people cannot farm it for a boss fight/instance. In addition to greater dmg/effects of these new abilities, I'd also suggest that they unlock a second tier of BR (ie: BR of these new abilities) which will make certain high end boss fights easier but not game breaking. For example, one of such second tier BR can significantly lower physical defense for a super-admantoise HNM for a short time period.

This way, it'll promote party interaction and tactics. For example, players now have the options to:

1) spam their best damaging skill at TP 1k or whatever, kinda like the old way
2) they can perform BRs, which would do less damage compare to 1), to build up this new guage and solo their new "overdrive' skill.
3) even go further for the 2nd tier BR for a super debuff/dmg (then they can spam their best damaging skills).

Depending on the available skills/jobs/number of players at the field, players can choose options that'd fit best to their situation. In other words, more variety of tactics.

Edit: One example of the 2nd tier BR can be something like the one shown in the intro moving when they fight the molboro!

Edit2: Yes, they need to fix the current BR before implementing this :)

DarkOrca, I was thinkning of something akin to the Limit bar from FF7 where the more damage you take the more the bar fills up, when its filled you can use a limit break. Or like FF8 when you had to be in critical health and/or under the status effect of Aura.

trying to think of a Botany secondary LB/OD but does Dark Harvest sound like something for DoL or DoW/M

I think these would have to be modes that you entered instead of the big flashy moves. In an MMO the rest of the game does not stop while you go through your 10-30s long animation to hyper-dominate the mob. If the animations were too much shorter than that, it wouldn't be much of a limit.

I liked what the OP posted several posts back - the one for GLA was ridiculously awesome (take no damage for Xsec and deal all damage that would have been received after duration - that shit is mean).

The gauge would need to fill pretty slowly, I don't think a reset would be necessary before a boss fight, just upon entering an instance. Each class should have 2-3 limit gain conditions vs. a single condition so that you aren't stuck not building limit as a tank because someone keeps pulling the mob off you. Limit gain should still be related to basic class functions. ALL classes should gain limit from taking damage at a rate of (approx.) 1000 damage = 1 tick.

EX: (Limit gains are in addition to damage taken)

Limit Gauge = 100 ticks

GLA Limit Gain: DMG (200:1), Block (.5:1 - partial/1:1 - full)
Limit Break: What OP said for GLA PLUS all engaged mobs focus on GLA only (w/radius limitation). Damage returned is single target with percentage to other engaged mobs

ARC Limit Gain: DMG (350:1), Miss (1:1)
Limit Break: 10sec of - 100% Critical, 50% reduced enmity, TP return on WS DMG (50%), Multishot automatically nocks 2 arrows

THM Limit Gain: Sacrifice HP Lost (50:1), Enfeeble (1:1), Resist (.5:1 - partial/1:1 - full)
Limit Break: 30sec of - DOTs applied to targets return % of DMG to party as HP, Cannot be resisted, Phantom Dart drains MP from target on hit, Scourge does increased damage per DOT (removes DOTs)

MAR Limit Gain: Parry (1:1), DMG (250:1), .25/10s of Steadfast
MAR Limit Break: 20s of - +70% enmity gain, Every attack made/taken increases Attack +10% (base), Cannot miss, On activation all mobs in COE take damage

PUG Limit Gain: Dodge (1:1.5), DMG (300:1)
Limit Break: 20s of - +50% enmity gain, +50% dodge chance (100% possible), 100% Counter (single hit, 100% CRIT, 25% 2sec stun) when any engaged enemy hits/misses/PUG dodge

Each mode would be signaled by an impressive animation (5s max duration or so) to indicate that the character is in beast mode. Just some ideas I came up with - love the idea!

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

DarkOrca, I was thinkning of something akin to the Limit bar from FF7 where the more damage you take the more the bar fills up, when its filled you can use a limit break. Or like FF8 when you had to be in critical health and/or under the status effect of Aura.

trying to think of a Botany secondary LB/OD but does Dark Harvest sound like something for DoL or DoW/M

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But that would force all mages to run to front line to get damage! Every pt member will rush to mob to get the damage lol. Would look funny and chaotic!

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Originally Posted by Eccocid

But that would force all mages to run to front line to get damage! Every pt member will rush to mob to get the damage lol. Would look funny and chaotic!

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Yeah lol. That's why the bar would have to be based on class/job specific factors.

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Yeah lol. That's why the bar would have to be based on class/job specific factors.

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What about instead of having an individual overdrive bar, having one bar for only LIGHT or FULL parties?

It only fills when party has 4 or 8 members. And gives some sort of boost to every pt member. Tho since battles can take a small amount of time. This bar should have a timer.

Lemme explain;
1.Party engages mobs. Kills them and gains 250 OD points.
2.Party looks for more mobs meanwhile OD points start to decrease.
3.Party gets in to fight and OD points start to fill again.
4. When it reaches to lets say 1000 everyone activates it in a way like battle regiments.
5.Something big happens. Maybe a temporary HP boost, heal, a summon?

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Originally Posted by Eccocid

What about instead of having an individual overdrive bar, having one bar for only LIGHT or FULL parties?

It only fills when party has 4 or 8 members. And gives some sort of boost to every pt member. Tho since battles can take a small amount of time. This bar should have a timer.

Lemme explain;
1.Party engages mobs. Kills them and gains 250 OD points.
2.Party looks for more mobs meanwhile OD points start to decrease.
3.Party gets in to fight and OD points start to fill again.
4. When it reaches to lets say 1000 everyone activates it in a way like battle regiments.
5.Something big happens. Maybe a temporary HP boost, heal, a summon?

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I personally like the idea of individual limit breaks that can link together, but this idea is definitely good. You may want to think about presenting it in another thread. I can totally see a party move or buff based on a team bar. You could even make the "team bar" execute a team move. This would work because you could have a cinematic scene. The problem that limits the extravagance of individual limit break moves is the amount of time a character would take to execute a visually appealing action and the overall effect on the party. With a team move the whole team would be isolated and it could take no damage during the duration of that cinematic. This idea is very different to mine and would be separate from the Overdrive/Limit Break I proposed. I urge you to start a new thread and push this idea. It is an interesting idea that deserves to be heard on a larger scale. You may want to leave out the light/full party requirement and just say party though.

ok wrote it and posted :)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...671#post201671

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Originally Posted by Eccocid

But that would force all mages to run to front line to get damage! Every pt member will rush to mob to get the damage lol. Would look funny and chaotic!

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not necessarily, a AoE spell could draw some hate or AoE attacks/spells by enemies causing some damage

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Keep up the positive posts guys. I'm confident we can get the devs to consider this concept. Every concept has flaws, but the fundamental idea is what I'm trying to push.



Here are clips of some of the older ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2xtggrMFWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnAFO...eature=related


*Imagine some of that with these graphics

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Hi ClashBlades,

Great thread! :) I'm glad to hear Matsui-san is possibly considering something like Limit Breaks after the base Battle System changes.

I think Limit Breaks / Overdrives are something that has become part of the "Final Fantasy" fabric. It's something fans and non-fans come to expect from a "Final Fantasy" game (like the Summons). However it's implemented, I would hope we get something with the visual flair and panache of some of the examples shown in the 2 video links quoted above. :)

Bad-ass, epic, exciting! :)

In regards to concerns brought up in this thread by some about it being a real-time MMO game, and everyone being stuck, as long as it's not too long (nothing like "Knights of the Round" in FF VII), I think having a little cinematic flair goes a long way. It's one of the disappointing things about Summoners in FF XI: Their finishing moves were a shadow of the grandeur of the trademark Summon Finishing Moves from all other Final Fantasy games (of course it's real-time and their are other players so there's a limit, I know), but you can still make something amazing, powerful and something that makes you shout, "YES!!!" in a short amount of animation time.

Clash, you might consider updating your Original Post with the 2 Video Links quoted above. They sum up the spirit of what you're going for very well. :) Cloud's Omnislash was pretty amazing. And hopefully it's a good reminder for any Dev Team member that might come across your post in the future. Thanks!

lovely, and i prefer deadly ability from the bar more than just special mode. it could be primal summon like ff12 and ff13.(that is not be able to use often)

Most of the modern FF-series doesn't require you to be summoner to be able to summon primal, and, for the later ones, they tend to be kind of last result to use in real hard fight or when you near dead. Ifrit sense primal spirit inside of our body in story quest R38 too, so it would fit into the concept!!

(and if summoner class still exist in this game, then they can still continue to summon their little FF11-style primal. Not the uber FF12,FF13 style one.)