Please don't remove Invigorate from BRD ><

The entire point of the game originally was cross-class abilities. First they limit them severely and now they are taking them away one by one. Might as well just ditch the entire armory system at this point.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

The entire point of the game originally was cross-class abilities. First they limit them severely and now they are taking them away one by one. Might as well just ditch the entire armory system at this point.

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You're better off ignoring the armory system as it is anyways... (by having to level alts in order to bypass coil lockouts).

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

Where did I say that? They are talking about changing the cross abilities that bard can use............................................



Pretty much cause melees are bad we get called OP so they get buffed and we get nerf'd slightly. All DPS classes can do more than BRD if played right.

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Sure, in IDEAL situations. You're forgetting that melee are punished by each and every ability that enemies use. While this is going on BRD and BLM and SMN are sitting back PewPewing away without a care in the world while DRG and MNK watch their DPS fall down into abysmal numbers because if they don't dodge they die. It's not people being "bad" it's boss mechanics being EXTREMELY flawed. Sure, a DRG or MNK will easily out dps you if they're able to actually keep up a stable rotation, but that just doesn't ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Amocoru

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Only situation this happens is Titan. Everything else like, you know actually content like coil then DRGs, SMNs & BLMs all stomp BRD if played right. Just because you look at 1 situation that BRDs can beat people that makes them OP? So I should scream that SMN is OP cause they drop buffs on turn 1 boss and can do 2x the damage cause of 2 mobs? It's a PvE game, not like 1 being slightly better means anything. If it was a true PvP game then of course it matters, but yeah PvE and all.

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

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Agreed. All this crying about BRDs outdpsing other classes just boggles my mind considering FF is a PVE game. "Ohnoes! My party member is doing more damage to the mob we are BOTH trying to kill together, please nerf" crowd is screwing this game (and class). I guess it's all about the epeen.

If they change to conjurer instead of lancer, then I will leave that job for sure until they release a ranger, I don't get it why they keep nerfing stuff instead of boosting other jobs to look for balance, in other games that I played they boost other classes and after testing every patch nobody complained. I've been trying other dps and I don't find those enough interesting to play, its sad for me because this class was my first since 1.0 release and liked it from day one and they kept nerfing it all the time...(multishot)

And why didn't they say it at least a few weeks in advance, I wouldn't have wasted all those seals to get a relic+1 and all the good gear ><

The defense here is hilarious.

Bard's have a far simpler job than any other DPS. The only thing they don't bring is a desirable limit break. SE could do two things, they could buff all other DDs (and have to consider rebalancing content) or they could nerf one job.

Sensible choice, not as fun as buffs, but eh.

To be honest bard needs it. Hate me, I don't care. That mobility and safety from other people's reds, which slows down melee dps, has to cost something. At the moment, the only time it costs anything is if there isn't someone else with a desirable LB in group.

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Originally Posted by Yoruichi4478

Don't see me playing bard much if they turn us into a glorified harp player. I am a dps, I want to stay dps so give us ranger and let the music players have at it. Don't destroy a class I love. Quit nerfing us, and ppl quit qq'ing about the unfairness of bard. Archer has been this way since alpha and only now you're whining about us. You had your chance during alpha and all the beta phases to qq about how unfair you have it compared to us. Just leave us alone and buff the classes that are busy crying a river. Atm, there is only one ranged choice for a bow class and that's bard, why mess with something that's been this way since alpha?

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I just wanna say...

"Don't see me playing bard if they turn us into a bard."

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Originally Posted by Steeled

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Did you see the live letter? They get a 10% damage increase AND we are going to get nerfed, plus they also get higher combos as an extra buff. It wasn't 1 or the other, it was both.

So like, what are Bards good for anyway?

SONGs! right?
Swiftsong we play that alot right? --- "Um, what does that do again? Make you craft faster?"

Foe Requiem! cause like, you have a black mage or summoner in the party right? "Oh well, we didn't bring one today... cause well, no one likes to play those as much!"

no wait, I got it, Army's Paeon! for like, melee! we got those now right cause they buffed it? --- "Um, no save your mana for...."

Mage's Ballad! Right! I knew it was something! but like, so um, we are a one trick pony?

More songs pls! Um, how about "Song of Valor"!?!?!one You Bards that pay attention to stuffs in the story battles know what I'm talking about.

I mean, if our dps is gonna well, SUCK, um, can't we have more support stuffs? I mean like ya, I get it! Everyone is a freaking bard! I knows! but still... :/

But like, isn't this a step backwards? People are going to go like "Bards, eeeeew, get something good like a monk or dragoon!"

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Also Paeon totally fills TP faster than we use it. Yup.

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I agree (assuming you were being funny) that Paeon isn't very useful to the bard singing it at all.

1)If you look at the cost of Bard's AoE skills you realize that they are expensive, having a bit of TP trickle in every so many seconds isn't going to allow you to AoE more... really. Add to that, well, if I was a total idiot and used ALL my TP AoEing so I can't even heavy shot without sitting still for a while to regen a bit (I've done this too, so I won't judge you), by the time Army's Paeon even casts, you'd be good to go pretty much anyway. So why not just sit there a second and NOT nerf your dps by 20%?
2)The second side of this is Lore or how about we call it common sense. Would a Bard sing a song to cheer THEMSELVES up? Isn't it about cheering up your friends? I mean, you know the song, you are singing it, so like, haven't you heard it before and it's less interesting?

My comment was more aimed at people who really don't even seem to grasp how Bards work. They think they can constantly keep Ballad and Paeon on without drawbacks and most tanks pulling a pack of 25+ mobs keep yelling "more aoe deeps" not realizing even if the all songs on me at once scenario was possible, AoE's drain my damn TP, not to mention reduces my damage.

I mean I'm okay with them making Bard supporty, if it's actually useful, since I actually thought I was picking a support class when I started.. IDK what the heck to do if we get like, Cure. But people will become whiny to the other end of the spectrum then.. "Why don't you do more damage?!"

You're damned if you sing, you're damned if you don't.
You're damned if you AoE, you're damned if you don't.
You're damned if you support, you're damned if you don't.
You're damned if you DPS, you're damned if you don't.

Bard. Serious business. But at least we can move while shooting arrows.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Bard. Serious business. But at least we can move while shooting arrows.

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At least for now lol. I thought this is what they were going to change.... I might be wrong.

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Originally Posted by YarozeX

At least for now lol. I thought this is what they were going to change.... I might be wrong.

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Where did you hear that? Can you provide a link to this info?

Doesn't mater as long as you have Foe Requiem or ballad. I'll invite a BRD over a MNK or DRG for Speed Runs

As someone who has mained BRD since 1.0, I don't think there's any particular single nerf that could ruin the job like so many people in this thread seem to think. Even if Blood for Blood is lost, you'd still have all of the other abilities you have to boost damage. If Invigorate is lost that just means better TP management and honestly there aren't too many cases where TP is a massive problem such that the loss of 300TP every 2mins will make or break it.

It's my gut feeling, which of course has the chance to be wrong, that BRD won't really suffer or be utilized any differently because of this "nerf".

if it's required to balance things out, so be it.

Why are people complaining about the nerf when Bard was never meant to be a full on offensive class from the get go.
From what I hear from my friends who main Bard they are happy, seeing how Bards will be forced to do their actual role. Support while maintaining a subtle DPS flow.

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Originally Posted by Ensign

Why are people complaining about the nerf when Bard was never meant to be a full on offensive class from the get go.

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Proof please.

im 100% positive it will be blood for blood and its going to be taken off our list. anyones whos plays bard knows bards burst comes from stacking HE (increase dex by 15%) RS (increase damage dealt by 20%) BfB (increases damage dealt by 20% thats 40% increase damage dealt after the 15% dex is applied) and internal release (increase crit rate by 20%) then poping barrage which is 20 secs of (with a decent geared brd) crits for 400-500+ and thats just a heavy shot but lets throw in barrage (increases the number of strikes per auto attack to 3 and u will get 3 auto attacks off with the triple buff up) this means along with your abilities hitting for stupid damage your auto attacks are criting like this 300 300 300 so with just auto attacking and using 1 ability u just did 1400 damage and im low balling the numbers on that cause blood letter is off the gcs so that will hit when your doing a heavy shot and can crit also so im sure we are goin to lose 20% damage off our burst which is a small nerf but needed

what yoshi didnt realize is that they wouldnt of even had to nerf bard if they wouldve gave bard conj and pug like they shouldve and let them support like the job was originally created for cause buffing and healing in sticky situation is a dps drop for bards but there dd role is consistent damage and small burst when needed not big burst like Black Mage and this wouldve also let them fill that support role cause brds dont support shit now wait i think i got asked to u ballad once in coil turn 4 my bad but besides ballad and foe to make blm op as hell we dont support shit..... if se wouldnt of listen to all the i want a rng dd rite now QQ groupies..... this nerf wouldnt even been needed

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Originally Posted by NightWrath

Do it with any end game content then i talk about it with u.

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Our bard just took the last 4th of the final boss of AK down by circling around while backpedaling. End game content. go.

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Originally Posted by Espi

Proof please.

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read the limit break brds get a heal limit break not a dd one why because there were never supposed to be a full offensive job or go back and read some of yoshi old letter or read the questions from the beta or go read the questions from the old live letters its been stated many times brd is not supposed to be a full offensive class i wish they wouldve left it like it was a full support job

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Originally Posted by Espi

Proof please.

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Uh, because they're clearly, clearly, a support class. Sure some of the buffs collect dust, but they all are meant to enhance the group and ballad...ballad...ballad.

Not to mention the -damage penalty ballad imposes.

Oh, and the healing limit break.

When i heard they were changing the sub classes I was concerned - but now I think on it, if they changed it back to a class with support skills like conjurer, that might be a nice buff to our functionality as a support class...

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

More support? Are you guys thinking before write this kind of things? What are we going to cast? Protect? Or stoneskin? For sure will be stronger than the whm/sch one >_<

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please think before u post stone skin and protect are set values now read there tooltips lol or better yet read your character stats unlike 1.0 there are no longer any stats that increase buffs smh >_<

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Originally Posted by knite23

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

More support? Are you guys thinking before write this kind of things? What are we going to cast? Protect? Or stoneskin? For sure will be stronger than the whm/sch one >_<

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please think before u post stone skin and protect are set values now read there tooltips lol or better yet read your character stats unlike 1.0 there are no longer any stats that increase buffs smh >_<

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For the record, a pugilist's stoneskin (10% of target's hp) and protect (Only physical defense) is as strong as an SCH or PLD's, because only whm gets traits to enhance them (18% of target's hp, and protect gets magic defense).

So take some of your own advice.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

For the record, a pugilist's stoneskin (10% of target's hp) and protect (Only physical defense) is as strong as an SCH or PLD's, because only whm gets traits to enhance them (18% of target's hp, and protect gets magic defense).

So take some of your own advice.

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your rite sir only whm.... it clearly says whm/sch and the point hes tying to make is because brds buffs arnt as strong as whm buffs which i repeat clearly says whm/sch they would never be a reason to use them which is clearly false and understood by anyone who played brd in 1.0 and even now ive been in plenty of parties without any whm the point is supporting is supporting its not about who cast the better buff its about making sure the buffs are up and the healers arnt wasting there mana or time to cast the buff thus the TERM support not only that our support job was to raise anyone who was dead buff them and heal if a healer went down so yes i took the advice and read it but my point is very clear thanks and this is wat i was editing my post with along with that whm are the only ones who can to a better protect and ss but since u had to jump to correct me before i could finish editing it u get my full response lol thanks for the correction though

To be honest, there's no scenario where a bard would need to cast protect. You always always have a healer, or you're not doing something where you're going to die.

I suppose if they add a boss that constantly dispels buffs..

And at 50, stoneskin costs 266 mp. Believe it or not, it drains fast on a whm or sch if you spam it. I'll use it on a tank sometimes, or a weakened target helping them edge through til weakness wears, but I can't imagine a job with 1400 mp (or whatever bard actually has) would want to spam it. It's a good spell at certain points for PLD, but I know how it feels on such a little mp pool.

You want your bard to have full mp to get max time out of songs. They'd have to alter the job quite a bit if they actually wanted it using mp for other things.

* * *

To be honest, forget coil, CT, titan, this is probably a nerf targeting WP speed runs because how dare.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Uh, because they're clearly, clearly, a support class. Sure some of the buffs collect dust, but they all are meant to enhance the group and ballad...ballad...ballad.

Not to mention the -damage penalty ballad imposes.

Oh, and the healing limit break.

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So why did they change CNJ as subclass for BRD from beta?

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Originally Posted by knite23

read the limit break brds get a heal limit break not a dd one why because there were never supposed to be a full offensive job or go back and read some of yoshi old letter or read the questions from the beta or go read the questions from the old live letters its been stated many times brd is not supposed to be a full offensive class i wish they wouldve left it like it was a full support job

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Could you please post a link?

there arnt any scenarios anymore cause everything is easy mode in 1.0 there was many scenarios where brd would be the one casting buffs because whm had to lietrally keep healing or the tank would die. i dont think they would have to change much to make brds use there mp for other things. my mp pool is 2000 and i main brd the only time i ever run out of mp is 1) i forgot a song was up it drained all my mp and 2.) i got tired of whms crying about mana so i left my song up the entire time on purpose so i can say im out of mp yall are shit out of luck buy mana potions but other than that brds should have half to full mana at all times i havent had one fight in which i had to have my brd song up so long it drained my mp and for the ppl who play brd all should be using bv and ballad anyway to top off the healers mana the mana regen with bv is op and there is no reason u should have to keep up the buff more than 15 to 20 secs at a time just like the rest of the buffs in the game which are all 20 to 15 secs if not less but if they wanted brds to be more a support roles and actually need to use ss protect a raise a heal they would need to make the battles more difficult

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Originally Posted by Espi

Could you please post a link?

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not going to find a link to the obvious if u played the game u would know its wasnt meant to be a full dps job thats why they are nerfing it to begin with because they feel like the job does to much damage even though everyone knows that brds are lowest dps in the game rite now once u get deep into endgame plus they still have a heal LB rite and the reason they took cnj away and gave it pug is because they wanted to give brd more damage the crit buff.. and second wind as there heal also mantra another support skill lol like our songs..... and those actions from mnk made ppl feel more like dd but we still are the lowest dd of all the dds jobs lol but because of all the QQers who wanted a rng dd job now not a rng support job this is wat we get and the fights are so easy right now u wont find many situation a brd will have to support and its the life line to keep the party going hopefully later on but not at the moment

If they remove Invigorate, say goodbye to Mage Ballad / Foe Requiem as well crybabies, because we will need Army Paeon to keep up our TP during AoE Phase, and that will also mean BRDs will become a dead weight in the party hence no one will take them anymore, well Silence aside ofcourse, but meh, Paladins can do it too.

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Originally Posted by knite23

please think before u post stone skin and protect are set values now read there tooltips lol or better yet read your character stats unlike 1.0 there are no longer any stats that increase buffs smh >_<

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If I am not wrong there are traits for those abilities and the traits are not shared between classes right?
Yes. I am not wrong

I got it!

Switch out one of Bard's cross classes for conjurer - and allow bard to select repose as a cross-class ability. Giving them a way to sleep targets would fit well with the theme, provide meaningful support options

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Originally Posted by Espi

Proof please.

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4 support-oriented job abilities.
Support-based limit break.

I think those two pretty much nail BRD into place as a more support-role than DPS as the others are.

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Originally Posted by Espi

So why did they change CNJ as subclass for BRD from beta?

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Why change WHM from GLA to ACN? Why change BLM from PGL to ACN? Why change DRG from ARC to MRD? Why have change at all? I don't see a point to your question.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

4 support-oriented job abilities.
Support-based limit break.

I think those two pretty much nail BRD into place as a more support-role than DPS as the others are.

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And we have like 15 more dps abilities I don't see your point...
Bard = DPS role with some utility. Is more supportive than a dragoon for example but it still being DPS

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

nail BRD into place as a more support-role than DPS as the others are.

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Perm 10% crit increase. 2 massive DPS boost cross-class abilities from the 2 best DPS classes in the game. 2 massive DPS boost abilities from the Bard. A skill that reduces enmity due to the big burst. A skill that triples auto attack damage. 2 crittable DoTs that can reset a high potency ability that is off the GCD. A TP restoring cross-class ability.

If they intended Bard to be a support class, they shouldn't have given them all these amazing DPS tools.

Now, I personally would prefer Bard to be an actual support class (but then give people who want ranged DPS a Ranger job, since the number of classes in this is a joke as it is), but SE took out the support role and made Bard a DPS class. There are remnants of the support-class plan left (LB, songs) but anyone who says Bard is not mainly a DPS class should think again.

I also don't see the point in giving Bards CNJ abilities...when would one use them? And why? Cure without mind? Stoneskin which only shields 10% when not used by a WHM? I could see ACN being somewhat useful for Eye for an Eye and Virus...but then again, every BLM and WHM has that.

So in my opinion, either give us an actual support role, make parties consist of 5 members (tank-dps-dps-healer-support) and rebalance the whole game or keep Bard as a DPS class.

Monk buuuuuuffffff mmmmm yeeeesss lemme task your brds tears

Edit : yea I'm maining a monk and know we DPS well but am for the buff cause brd as it stands alienates most other DPS for certain runs.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

The defense here is hilarious.

Bard's have a far simpler job than any other DPS. The only thing they don't bring is a desirable limit break. SE could do two things, they could buff all other DDs (and have to consider rebalancing content) or they could nerf one job.

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Oh look, someone who hasn't even touched archer telling others that bard is easy.

While I will agree that it's definitely easier than monk or dragoon for leveling and pre-endgame content, bard is one of the most if not the most difficult job to play correctly for endgame. It is not just stand there DPSing/dodging. Bards typically have far more to do than other jobs and far more to look out for. They kite, they do mandatory silences, they place damage mitigation at key times, they have to use songs at key times, on top of trying to maximize their damage. Their damage mitigation ability costs 200 TP, so even with invigorate bards will often find themselves at 0 TP just for doing what they're supposed to do without worrying about max damage.

This is coming from someone who has geared nearly every job and has utilized every job in endgame.