Shortage of Tank .......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceol

Garuda HM. I just have to eat her moves and hope my healers can spam me with cure.

---

she only does one decent hit "slipstream" which can be avoided..... >.>

Another tank quiting .

The end game is really poorly designed . Not much fun at all tbh . No variety .

Running AK 8x a week sound like fun ?


Coil is on lock out so got to find group that plays when I play etc but I do shift work not the usual 9-5 etc .

Basically if these games want to last they need to be more casual for end game , that is where the money is , Right now I'm starting to look for new game which is sad because I wish I could play this more .

I find it hilarious because my FC is tragically low on damage dealers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astarica

There's no dungeon that's so hard where even if you're marking the '1' in the worst possible way, you'd somehow wipe by attacking the '1' first.

---

Bombs in halatali. If they are not killed (because other mob is marked and aggroed), of course it is not a 100% wipe, not even 100% res, but it can add problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Bombs in halatali. If they are not killed (because other mob is marked and aggroed), of course it is not a 100% wipe, not even 100% res, but it can add problems.

---

You mean the self-destruct? But the game gives you a lot of time to walk out of the self-destruct range. If the tank doesn't do that, it's basically the same thing as purposely dying. You can't overcome someone purposely trying to die no matter how good you are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moirear

IMHO AoE attacks are usually a waste of time and inefficient use of resources.

---

The AE in this game works out pretty simple. It's damage positive on 3 or more mobs to use AE over single target attacks, and often significantly higher DPS done at a cost of using up MP/TP faster. Since trash isn't designed to make you run out of TP/MP while AEing so you might well kill them in ASAP. For most dungeons, there's no particular reason to AE if your tank isn't comfortable. However in Brayflox or Stone Vigil where it's not uncommon to get to the last boss with only 20 minutes to spare with a bad group, and you're not going to learn how to beat Aiatar or Isgebind in 20 minutes with a bad group, so you might as well AE immediately to shave as much time off the trash clear as possible. If you somehow wiped on trash just because you're AEing, your group is almost certainly incapable of beating either of those two dungeons anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amyas

I have to disagree. Pretty much always use your wrath stacks when you've got them (and *not* just on IB), it takes just a few seconds to get them back up without using your off gcd abilities :T Plus you've got infuriate (last one you want to use) and vengeance. On Garuda, you can always use SC as soon as the plumes pop in the first couple phases. Even as an ot I pop defiance on, infuriate, SC to get a lil bit of damage in there while they're grouped together.

Practice your rotations a bit more, try to run with the same healer that gets to know your patterns and you definitely will change your mind about it being a 'terrible pld' :p.

---

Thanks for the tips. Switching over from PLD with its single rotation, WAR's ABC,ADE rotation kind of threw me for a loop, especially trying to fit Inner Beast and manage using Vengeance.

Not sure how to say this but there is a shortage because no one wants to deal with the people you usually end up getting in DF. There are just a lot of things you really shouldn't still be seeing out of people later in the game that do go on. Like healers that have a relic+1 who keeps letting myself and the dps die because they keep letting my hp drop to about 300-400 on fights (even bosses). Dps who don't wait or seem to use any threat reducing skills (cross class or otherwise).

I know with better gear I'll keep threat better but why should it all be on me the tank? Why can't the rest of the group at least do thier part to help? By the way played dps in many mmos before you can't just blame the tank everytime your pulling aggro.

If I group up anymore it's usually to help friends when they need it and FC mates, DF is a last resort.

I main a tank, and for a change of pace, I am now currently trying to level a Black Mage. My Black Mage is currently Level 42.

However, I got here because of FATE grinding. If I had a choice, I would have liked to be able to run dungeons over and over again instead. However, we all know how long DPS queues are, and at best, if I ask my FC to run Brayflox with me (because I want that Battlemage set), it's easy enough to find a healer, but not a tank. I've always ended up pugging the tank, and even with a party of 2 DPS and 1 healer, it takes me 30 minutes to find a tank at best - this is also including the fact that I queued for all cultures (J/E/D/F), and I play on a Japanese server.

I don't get why this is the case, but I believe it points to a number of factors:
- There's nothing in it for tanks in lower level dungeons. I agree that right now I would probably not want to tank anything pre-Haukke, because I simply cannot get out of not using Rage of Halone anymore.
- Dungeons do end up taking a long time to complete, especially at lower levels. You can't really expect to speed run stuff like Sastasha, or Tam-tara. Toto-rak is probably the worst - the ambience, and general design of the dungeon just makes me sleepy tanking it.
- This is not related to dungeons, but the fact that there are more healers might be due to the fact that there are 3 Disciple of Magic classes, in comparison to 5 Disciple of War classes. The 3 Disciple of Magic classes pretty much interact with one another, this means that irrelevant of stats, their gears can somewhat be re-used among the classes. BLM can cross with ACN, SMN/SCH can cross with both THM and CNJ, and WHM can cross with THM. I find that most people who have previously mained a Disciple of Magic class, usually end up picking up WHM or SCH fairly early on too.
- In another relation to the point above, I also find that people who have previously played a Disciple of War class would probably end up re-classing to another Disciple of War class later on. However, Marauder is the least popular option because of all the horror coil stories these people would probably have heard of. Those who do run Gladiators, simply do it to get it to 50, they do not want to tank low level dungeons, as tank is more gear dependant than the other members. They also do this by repeatedly spamming FATEs, not by levelling via dungeons. I don't think I've ever met a tank in my times running Brayflox as a BLM, who has said that their WAR/PLD is their 2nd class.

Main problem with tanks is I find a lot of tanks lack the basic necessary skills for higher dungeons mainly due to doing fate farms up to high 40s then trying out a dungeon and failing miserably. I have no problem if I have to tell the tank about certain mechanics this dungeon has, but the thing I DO expect him to be able to do is know how to use his basic rotations of his skills and hold his aggro. I've had tanks who don't even know how to hold aggro on a boss somehow and that's just 1 mob to look after...

Tanks are always going to be a rare or if nothing else less common breed. In your average group set up a large part of the responsibility falls on the tank. They tend to lead the group, are often blamed or looked down on for making any sort of mistakes, are generally expected to magically know how a fight works or where to go regardless of the content and just have to work HARDER then other roles. Most DPS classes just pluck away on damage skills and don't honestly have to try very hard at all. Don't get me started on the amount of times one of the dps in my groups has gone afk mid fight for 10-15 seconds without word or warning. Healers have to pay attention more then the dps but if the tank is geared and playing correctly in anything short of boss fights the healing required for a Paladin tank is minimal at best. I can get though a 1 or 2 mob pull without ANY healing at all in AK, which leaves the healer to either DPS or in many cases to just stand there doing nothing at all.

You work harder, get none of the flash and pop of DPS and anytime you make a mistake it is easily apparent to everyone. I wonder why more people don't want to play this role... If tanks were not as rare as they are, being a good one wouldn't be a reward at all which is why most people even bother to play a tank in the first place.

Its just my rant/two cents but I'm personally glad tanks are some what rare. I don't wish long boring queues on anyone but if this %^&* was easy... everyone would be doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William_Conroy

Tanks are always going to be a rare or if nothing else less common breed. In your average group set up a large part of the responsibility falls on the tank. They tend to lead the group, are often blamed or looked down on for making any sort of mistakes, are generally expected to magically know how a fight works or where to go regardless of the content and just have to work HARDER then other roles. Most DPS classes just pluck away on damage skills and don't honestly have to try very hard at all. Don't get me started on the amount of times one of the dps in my groups has gone afk mid fight for 10-15 seconds without word or warning. Healers have to pay attention more then the dps but if the tank is geared and playing correctly in anything short of boss fights the healing required for a Paladin tank is minimal at best. I can get though a 1 or 2 mob pull without ANY healing at all in AK, which leaves the healer to either DPS or in many cases to just stand there doing nothing at all.

You work harder, get none of the flash and pop of DPS and anytime you make a mistake it is easily apparent to everyone. I wonder why more people don't want to play this role... If tanks were not as rare as they are, being a good one wouldn't be a reward at all which is why most people even bother to play a tank in the first place.

Its just my rant/two cents but I'm personally glad tanks are some what rare. I don't wish long boring queues on anyone but if this %^&* was easy... everyone would be doing it.

---

I too have to chuckle a little bit with the way we are treated, and yet people wonder why there are so few of us. To any aspiring tanks out there, being a tank isn't for everyone, but if you learn, and can be patient with people, it is the most fun and rewarding role in the game, at least to me.

(I ran sastasha for the first time as dps ever this morning... I was falling asleep x_X)

On a non-ranty note, group composition does play a small role in the amount there are of each class. For group content there needs to be enough dps, if they suddenly released content that required 5 tanks, 2 dps, and a healer, well... either more people would need to role tanks or those queues would be KUHRAYZEEE.

Shortage of tanks? Healers? Pfft
http://s14.directupload.net/images/131028/gfwb2vnq.png

As a Turn5 WAR/PLD, I've just recently gotten my MNK to level 50 and like William_Conroy said earlier, being a tank is just more work overall. The expectations are very high and any mistake is automatically blown up and made to be a bigger issue than it is. I got my MNK to 50 to honestly turn my brain off. It is so damn easy to just plug away at DPS skills and let the onus for a successful run be put onto someone else for a change.

I like tanking but tanking for people who don't appreciate a good run makes it very hard to do on a daily basis. I'm definitely enjoying my MNK at the moment. I'll save my tanking for my LS Coil group who appreciates it.

Jeeez, I wonder why!

Instead of putting down paladins and warriors, it's best to encourage them! If any other game that I can remember leveling up Paladin, it's FFXI and that was no walk-in-the-park.

Because the class is terrible (especially at low levels), and so is the community.

I've tried its not fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wormed

As a Turn5 WAR/PLD, I've just recently gotten my MNK to level 50 and like William_Conroy said earlier, being a tank is just more work overall. The expectations are very high and any mistake is automatically blown up and made to be a bigger issue than it is. I got my MNK to 50 to honestly turn my brain off. It is so damn easy to just plug away at DPS skills and let the onus for a successful run be put onto someone else for a change.

I like tanking but tanking for people who don't appreciate a good run makes it very hard to do on a daily basis. I'm definitely enjoying my MNK at the moment. I'll save my tanking for my LS Coil group who appreciates it.

---

I rolled up BLM for the same thing. I get so tired of putting up with peoples BS in a group and no matter what its always the tanks fault even when people are being douche bags and admit in group that they were intentionally attacking the wrong mob just to screw with me, iam still the bad guy, as a dps i dont have to do anything but blow shit up. The only time i tank now is when i run with LS mates or on coil, the tanking experience in coil is sooooo much better then dealing with DF dungeon runs.

given that I have to choose between less tank or more incompetent tank, I would choose less tank. A noob tank just waste everyone's time starting from Brayflox (lv32).

If you can't tank a level 20+ dungeon without being getting complained, you will either need to get down from your high ego, stop believing you're a special snowflake and learn, or just play DPS. Tanking comes naturally to most hardcore players, but to a casual players, the concept can be hard to grasp.

The way this game's dungeon is structured, even DPS can have a huge impact on the team...but at least that's a shortfall that the other competent players can cover to a certain extend.

Even though I never yell at tanks (at least in this game...looking at a lalafell always calms me down), but I can understand the frustration especially at higher level dungeon of a fail tank or any other class for that matter.

Some of the fail players that I've seen:
-A pally with blue gear that can't hold aggro properly in brayflox, and can't work out the boss mechanics.
-Tank that can't stay dodge brayflox AOE
-A healer that doesn't cast protect.
-A healer that doesn't do combat raise at lv32
-Noob summoner who's pet keep waking up cc targets
-Tank that only hold aggro on boss and doesn't care about adds
-Healer that DPS and get the tank killed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaozK

Shortage of tanks? Healers? Pfft
http://s14.directupload.net/images/131028/gfwb2vnq.png

---

You have a tank. He's floating behind you.

That's still cool, but I don't think you can claim you did it without a tank, and since SMNs can cure their pets pretty effectively (and have a decent party cure) it wouldn't exactly be fair to say you did it without a healer, as well.

I tried raising a tank. I wasn't planning on doing much endgame with it, but I thought it would be fun. A few times I was actually praised for my low-level nubby tanking. I'm pretty sure they were just being nice and trying to encourage me to keep learning. Haha. What put me off tanking is the DPS who refuse to kill things marked from 1-5(when they single target dps something). When I'm a new tank, learning exactly how to manage the mobs in a new dungeon, the very least a DPS can do is help me out by trying to stick to one target if they're not AoEing or dotting. Sure, I can still manage to hold most things when DPS don't listen...but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be annoyed.

I'm sticking to healing and DPSing. Tanking simply stresses me out.

The tanking/nontanking situation usually breaks down because people don't realize that overaggroing is not unusual if your tank is weakly geared or bad, but dying should still be rare. For example if I pull aggro on a Dullahan, and then it did an Iron Justice which I didn't avoid so I died. But the problem here isn't so much that I overaggro the Dallahan, but that I failed to dodge the Iron Justice. Sure, it'd be better if the tank held aggro but I am expected to be able to dodge an Iron Justice if I got caught in its radius. So lack of aggro is probably the tank's fault but dying is my fault. The correct outcome is that I have aggro but still survive by dodging the Iron Justice. Of course in reality usually either the DPS gets mad (for dying) or the tank gets mad (for losing aggro) and then things get ugly.

Makes me happy, now that I invested the time in relic+1 and DL gear. :D I wait 5 seconds when I queue for anything. <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

snip
I'm sticking to healing and DPSing. Tanking simply stresses me out.

---

I have to agree tanking is a stressful and opften shitty job. Mayhaps specifically in this game because of the prevalence of insta kill mechanics and lack of ilvl screening in DF. Tank ultimatelyt gets blamed for everything, even after those some complainers spent the entire run ignoring our marks. haha

But I try to stay positive. Im leet geared now and most WP/AK DF's I get now have geared and exp'd individuals predominantly. So Id say now that the gear and experience of the majority has risen, being a tank will not be AS much an issue for me

I wanted to be a tank. But, like most MMOs, some fights require the tank (and everyone else) to have the absolute best latency. So now I just punch things from behind a lot :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceol

You have a tank. He's floating behind you.

That's still cool, but I don't think you can claim you did it without a tank, and since SMNs can cure their pets pretty effectively (and have a decent party cure) it wouldn't exactly be fair to say you did it without a healer, as well.

---

Titan egi is actually just there to gloriously sacrifice himself to grudge :D (he cant hold hate anyhow, even if we wanted him to tank). Mainly the Dragoons are the tanks and swap hate between each other (sometimes the Bard would tank for a bit too). Running without a tank is not so much the problem, we run 3DD/1Heal pretty often (a DRG in DL can tank WP/AK just fine depending on the power of the healer). The bigger challenge was actually to see if we could do it without a proper healer.

There are plenty of tanks, you know what the real issue is?

Square making FATE's the fastest way to gain experience, thus when people level Tank alts, they don't queue for dungeon... making the dungeon queues take an extremely long time.

Seriously, next time you're in a FATE, count how many tanks you have.

I honestly don't even think that tanking or anything like that is .harder. than any of the other jobs, and granted as a healer I get blamed for crappy runs a lot too (yes, sometimes it is indeed my fault :P)

what really mostly puts me off of tanking is the 'random person' factor. for tanking? yeah. I'd rather have someone around that I know and trust not to freak out on me for doing minor mistakes - yet alone big mistakes. sure, there are douchey tanks around, but when they constantly get the butt end of it that isn't very surprising. the arseholes are probably the folks that just want a quick pop, though. the people that don't feel like the general player even deserves their presense.

'look to those who walked before to lead those who come after' does not seem to be the motto of quite a handful of players. they know the deal and everyone else can suck it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekujen

There are plenty of tanks, you know what the real issue is?

Square making FATE's the fastest way to gain experience, thus when people level Tank alts, they don't queue for dungeon... making the dungeon queues take an extremely long time.

Seriously, next time you're in a FATE, count how many tanks you have.

---

This is certainly a problem as right now we have no incentive to run lower level dungeons, and by fate spamming you can skip them entirely. I did my story as a tank so I paid my dues, but even still, the only reason I ever go into a sub 50 instance is if someone in the FC needs it. Fortunately this is supposedly changing come 2.1 which I'm very much looking forward to.

Also to reinforce what pretty much everyone has already said, the rest of the party can be real jerks when things go wrong. You really need to have thicker than most skin, so I wouldn't be surprised if that has been turning a lot of people off to tanking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

I tried raising a tank. I wasn't planning on doing much endgame with it, but I thought it would be fun. A few times I was actually praised for my low-level nubby tanking. I'm pretty sure they were just being nice and trying to encourage me to keep learning. Haha. What put me off tanking is the DPS who refuse to kill things marked from 1-5(when they single target dps something). When I'm a new tank, learning exactly how to manage the mobs in a new dungeon, the very least a DPS can do is help me out by trying to stick to one target if they're not AoEing or dotting. Sure, I can still manage to hold most things when DPS don't listen...but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be annoyed.

I'm sticking to healing and DPSing. Tanking simply stresses me out.

---

if a DPS doesn't follow your mark, you let them die

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DesuGenesis

if a DPS doesn't follow your mark, you let them die

---

and they will scream at you and worst case it is the healer scream at you and say your tanking suck, happen to me once

I've tanked to 50, twice, with WAR in 2.0 and PLD in 1.0.

Although I love the game now, tanking via DF is rarely fun.

Most of the time it's incredibly stressful. So much so I've halted my story at Aurum Vale.

Since Stone Vigil I've had players that really don't know what they're doing as they'd levelled through fates. It really shows later in game.

Tanking is hard enough, but unskilled DF parties are making it even worse.

What we have is 'a stressful party role' + 'dodgy/lottery grouping system' + 'fate levelling with no skill required' = mass tank/healer frustration and table-tossing.

I hope the new recruitment boards will bring more responsible people together, but I have no idea why the devs don't just decrease exp for fates and increase it in dungeons to make people learn their roles better.

Since I run healer main and am working on tank (Glad at 26 so far) I figured I'd stop in to note that people are jerks to all classes. As a healer I saw plenty of angry tanks assault DPS and Healers for their own shortcomings. I also saw (even more) DPS assault tanks for the same.

As a tank I don't get nearly as much abuse from healers as I expected. Probably because I start off letting people know this isn't my main class and invite critique. However, I get a massive amount of rude commentary from DPS again when they ignore the numbered and marked order or pull additional groups from other places via bad tab rotation.

Playing tank is making me a better healer because I have a better grasp on how alpha strikes effect tanks, how annoying it is to have your interrupt on GCD (Seriously, wtf?) and how frustrating it is to see a snoozing mob wake up because of a pugilist and head straight for the THM. As a result, I take aggro and head to the tank now (on non-AoE centric mobs) so they can easy flash the aggro back. I place my fairies more carefully to make sure the tank gets regen benefits as often as possible, etc etc.

Side note: I'm really enjoying tanking so far. I do a dungeon 3-4 times until I feel it's understood, then grind to the next dungeon and do the same.

Every role has it idiots.

I level a BLM to 50... and while most tanks were good, I did have a couple bad ones.

I am leveling PLD now - funny story with that was I was in MAW at the first boss, I told the 2 BLM to have one of them LB. Someone replied "What is LB?" I was in shock. I told them BLM LB does AE damage. So on the 2nd boss, I told them to LB when the 3 little guys spawn. No LB. Finally on the last boss, I told them to LB on the 2nd set of adds. No LB. After we killed the boss, I politely told them, "Learn what LB is, and put it on your bars".

As a WHM, I haven't had a bad experience... except the time I forgot to click off cleric stance at the start of the dungeon and wondered why my heals were just not keeping the tank in a good range. The tank said afterwards" If your going to spam you might want to take off Cleric Stance" . I was so embarrassed. I felt like a complete noob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wobi

"UR a terrible tank" "LERN to hold threat" "Kill urself" (insert derogatory comment of your choice here). These are just a few of the things I've either seen people say to others or read about. I did not change the spelling for effect, but this is what people end up facing. This starts around level 15 when you have to start grouping, it's no wonder many don't continue on the path. As a tank you have to learn how to take a beating from the mobs AND your fellow players sometimes. This may help explain in part why the tank shortage is as bad as it is.

---

This!

Of course as others have said all MMOs suffer lack of tanks .. though XIV is the first case I've seen where healers are over-abundant .. and it's often because of this.

Of course, the reverse is also true and there are large numbers of jerk tanks infesting the DF, but ultimately XIV's players are responsible for the serious lack of tanks due to the wide-spread abuse they get, as noted here.


@Tricksy: "Makes me happy, now that I invested the time in relic+1 and DL gear. "

Which you soloed because obviously you didn't need a tank?

The minute I join a pick up someone in FC needs me ... soz. :(

I also pretty much refuse to tank basically anything non FC related, unless im just helping people out with ifrit/garuda/titan in DF because of peoples horrible attitudes. I have no qualms about my ability to tank however, i also have 0 incentive to play with kind of a-holes that i routinely see flooding everything else I do and all the shouts. I can almost guarantee if the community wasn't so terrible there'd be ALOT more tanks around. As tank you should expect to be the first point of attack from from monsters, not monsters and your own party as well.

Not to mention that sometimes even tanks get bored of tanking. Tank = FC DF = SMN :3

So far I haven't run into any d-bags that cry about my tanking, but on the flip side I have seen the damage FATES have done to this game. I tanked in WoW for 7 years, and let me tell you, some of the DPSers in this game make the average Night Elf Hunter named Legoluzz in WoW look like a tactical genius with lightning reflexes. I've seriously never so consistently grouped with dpsers in an mmo that seemed so ignorant of their role. Stack on top of this the ubiquitous issues with this games wretched netcode causing people to get hit by AoEs even when they're well out of the red, and you have a situation where tanking and healing is stressful as all hell in content that is largely mechanically brain dead simple (everything is absolute snoozefest facereoll till Qarn on up).

Well Maybe if tanking wasnt 1 2 3 spam with couple more abilities, people would actually enjoy the job.

I rolled a tank to beat the dps queues. Geared my DRG with instant pld queues, and now my pld is getting some gear love to progress in available content.

I highly recommend this (unless my tank queues stop being instant, in which case ... STOP IT)