[TIP] If you're going to be an Archer

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I play an archer in my down time. It's fun!

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As someone who used to play tank/healer in WoW, the boss mechanic in FF14 are boring. I love to do fight that require the tank to kite the boss, standing still pressing 1234 is pretty damn boring, and it get worse when the fight last for more than 15 minutes.

Also, the truly good player are the one that still keep their rotation going smoothly, no matter which role they're performing, while going along with the boss. That show their understanding of that boss mechanic, to utilize their kit to the best for the fight.

I'd actually love FF14 more if the boss they're gonna introduced in 2.1 swing over this way. But with PS3 player also playing, that's not likely coming any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Moesugi

Also, the truly good player are the one that still keep their rotation going smoothly, no matter which role they're performing, while going along with the boss. That show their understanding of that boss mechanic, to utilize their kit to the best for the fight.

I'd actually love FF14 more if the boss they're gonna introduced in 2.1 swing over this way. But with PS3 player also playing, that's not likely coming any time soon.

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I play on computer but even still why wouldn't it be possible because of PS3 players? Many people that use controller can do just as good of a job as mouse/keyboard users. Having been playing with both depending on my mood I know this for a fact. So if this isn't the reason for you saying this what is? If it is the reason for saying this than you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Araye

I play an archer in my down time. It's fun!

I also see a lot of archers soloing and I love to sit and laugh at them. "Why do they run around like that?" I think to myself.

I don't see the need to run around. Maybe it's because I learned to tank first and it's my instinct to stand there and take it. But as archer, I have cure, I use it. Couple arrows, cast a cure, couple more, dodge the AoE... repeat.

I was WHM in a FATE yesterday, something about "eyes" in Dragonhead area. Idiot archer took aggro and proceeded to dance. Maybe this is why archer leads to bard, they need a little music to go with the dancing?

Masha

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Why not run around though? Why laugh? Having to cast cure while being hit on is not only (given only slightly) more dangerous but it also takes more time. Since there is zero limitation on moving and shooting those of us who dance as you say while soloing kill faster.

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Originally Posted by Ephraim

For the love of God, stop running around like you're a chicken with it's head cut off and tank the bloody mob!

I swear, you are making matters worse by running around trying to kite the stupid thing instead of standing there and letting people wail on it! Hell, I guarantee that it'll be a hell lot easier for a tank to take hate off of you!

Oh, that reminds me.

If you're a healer and you see an Archer kiting a mob like an idiot, let them die so someone with an ounce of common sense can tank it!

Thank you.

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better run away if there's no responsible tank who wanna take over than an instant kill bro. About FATE, there's a possibility that there are no healer that care about the one who tanking (knowing what their jobs). The healers just spamming medica to get aggro and gold medal.

Different from dungeon, if it is on dungeon just run to your tank and let him take the mobs :)

My two cents..

In fates, EVERYONE including tank classes kite without heals. I see this every day, and it will never change.
In Dungeons, if I'm kiting around with a mob it's because the tank already failed or the healer is LOLMEDICA and I peeled it off the healer.
In Raids, I never pull aggro.

It's pretty much that simple.

Tanks get a two second head start to build aggro on trash, and then if I pull aggro I assume the healer will heal me. I don't have the patience to hold DPS on trash mobs because the tank isn't using a good rotation.

On bosses, I have quelling strikes and there is no excuse for the tank to lose aggro to me. I'll kite the boss while the tank reflects on his poor play.

Fates? Healers don't heal in fates, and you can't trust tanks to tank in fates. It's getting kited. I kited Gorgimera from 50% hp and still won. I don't care if the dragoons can hit or not, it's not my fault the tank died and the next person down on that threat meter is most likely a healer actually doing their job.

1/10.
You tried too hard.

(Huge thank you to Viridiana for teaching me how to bypass the 1000 character limit!)

Hm, Based on what I've been reading in here. Sounds a bit like a gripe thread Huzzah!
Currently I'm working on my lancer. But I've got a CON/ARC Build on a second character. And I used to play THM as my first class. So I sort of got in the habit of not moving when fighting (so as an archer, In dungeons I would stand still and dps from afar. Bringing mobs back to tank if need be etc.)
Fates? It depends on when you join. If you're one of the first people in and you're an archer, You're gonna have to kite a bit. But generally I try to keep close to tanks so they can pull threat off me rapidly. Then I retreat to the furthest I can still attack from and rinse/repeat.
Lancer? I'm enjoying quite a bit. While it requires movement (circling the enemy mostly) It's quite easy to do if you just lock on then L3. Strafe mode activated!

Earlier I read something in here about someone saying how easy it is to heal others while using a controller. Yes you are absolutely correct. if you're in a party with your fellows.
Otherwise in something like a Fate, You're not in a party unless it's a boss Fate, You have to spam left or right to cycle through targets, and if you're not facing that direction sometimes the cycle will skip the person entirely. This makes it even harder when someone is moving and dragging a bunch of adds behind them. because each time they pass in front of another player. the target cycle changes and what might have selected the player to heal finally, will now target someone closer. Then huzzah! back to the mobs and miss the player entirely. Meanwhile. computer has it a little easier because you can just click the kiting mc-kiterface and heal that way.

A quick story from before the servers went down for the evening. Was going through the Undercroft (Second story dungeon) with a random light party. You think it's bad to be in a group with a bad archer/bard. or terrible tank? Try being in a group with A tryhard cleric. A blind archer, And a button mashing tank.
First voidsent enemy (first miniboss) tank dies because A) he's not moving out of AOE markers, and B) The Conjurer is using Lightning while having cleric stance active, as opposed to healing the tank. Archer on the other hand, Has been killed shortly after the fight began because rather than attack the marked targets in order. He decided to attack whimsically and pulled threat on two enemies before the Tank could even get into the room. Then kited away from everyone, which made tank have to chase them down, and CON forget he was a healer and start attacking (God bless limit breaks because we would have wiped from that stupidity otherwise)
It just got worse and worse as the dungeon continued. finally culminating in the archer and CON ragequitting after dieing for the sixth time, and being replaced by compentent players (We just out DPSed the enemies before the tank had to worry about gaining threat)

So lets see... Moral of the story? (and the posts)

Learn your damn class. And if you're gonna be ranged dps? Start off as THM or ARC to learn some patience and how to stand still. Before becoming lololkitemaster (because magic classes have to charge attacks and have a smaller magic pool as opposed to Physical classes which draw from the endurance pool of 1000, which recharges steadily and allows you to move while spamming buttons.)

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Originally Posted by Dusky

(So apparently there's a 1000 character limit to posts. so this will be a 4 part as it's just over 3400 characters)

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You can just edit your first post to bypass the limit.

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Originally Posted by Dusky

Earlier I read something in here about someone saying how easy it is to heal others while using a controller. Yes you are absolutely correct. if you're in a party with your fellows.
Otherwise in something like a Fate, You're not in a party unless it's a boss Fate, You have to spam left or right to cycle through targets, and if you're not facing that direction sometimes the cycle will skip the person entirely. This makes it even harder when someone is moving and dragging a bunch of adds behind them. because each time they pass in front of another player. the target cycle changes and what might have selected the player to heal finally, will now target someone closer. Then huzzah! back to the mobs and miss the player entirely. Meanwhile. computer has it a little easier because you can just click the kiting mc-kiterface and heal that way.

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This was I who said this. Make a macro to heal your targets target and target lock the mob and hit that button you will always cure the person the mob is currently targeting. Done. It is easy.

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Originally Posted by Dusky

Learn your damn class.

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Originally Posted by Dusky

And if you're gonna be ranged dps? Start off as THM or ARC to learn some patience and how to stand still. Before becoming lololkitemaster (because magic classes have to charge attacks and have a smaller magic pool as opposed to Physical classes which draw from the endurance pool of 1000, which recharges steadily and allows you to move while spamming buttons.)

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THM has unlimited MP thanks to astral and umbral switching. ACN has nearly unlimited thanks to Aetherflow and Energy Drain. The two Magic DPS classes have a much more sustained pool to go from than DPS.

Nine times out of ten, an archer is more likely kiting a tank rather than kiting a mob.

Kite the mob TO the tank, and then you can stop kiting because you did your job.

i find that any more than 1 damage buff at a time and things start changing colours
so i pace them out one after the other and everything goes fine with a higher dps consistency over a longer duration

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Originally Posted by Maku

This was I who said this. Make a macro to heal your targets target and target lock the mob and hit that button you will always cure the person the mob is currently targeting. Done. It is easy. Learn your damn (CNJ) class.



THM has unlimited MP thanks to astral and umbral switching. SMN has nearly unlimited thanks to Aetherflow and Energy Drain. The two Magic DPS classes have a much more sustained pool to go from than DPS.

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came to say that too, but I'm not confident saying that it is easy for ppl who do it with controller since my WHM using Mouse-Over Macros.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

Nine times out of ten, an archer is more likely kiting a tank rather than kiting a mob.

Kite the mob TO the tank, and then you can stop kiting because you did your job.

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not all tank on fate "understand" their skill, like when they should using provoke and building aggro to take over the mob that are currently attacking the archer. it's safer for archer/brd to kite it to tank that "maybe" will take the aggro and take it from the archer/brd.

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Originally Posted by Dusky

Learn your damn class. And if you're gonna be ranged dps? Start off as THM or ARC to learn some patience and how to stand still. Before becoming lololkitemaster (because magic classes have to charge attacks and have a smaller magic pool as opposed to Physical classes which draw from the endurance pool of 1000, which recharges steadily and allows you to move while spamming buttons.)

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ARC isn't a magic class. I mean, yeah, I prefer to stand still, but this entire thread is about ARC kiting. >_>

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Originally Posted by rhazchan

came to say that too, but I'm not confident saying that it is easy for ppl who do it with controller since my WHM using Mouse-Over Macros.

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I do. A macro is a macro (aside from mo macros which don't work for controllers) <tt> is the same for both.

So, I'm going to just toss my two cents into this thread. (And I apologize if I'm repeating things already said.)

For me, kiting is very situational.

In dungeons, I don't kite at all unless the tank dies and I need to do so to keep myself alive and keep the targets off of the casters/healer. And even if I do grab aggro by accident, I run to the tank and the tank runs to me. We meet in the middle.

Some people just don't give a damn about threat. For those people, if they paid attention to the threat meter and pulled their punches (or arrows in this case) just a little when they're reaching the top, everything will turn out fine. And sometimes, it isn't because the tank isn't doing their job properly.. Sometimes you're (or I'm) a little better geared and pump out that much damage.

Kiting keeps me alive in certain situations, especially if there isn't anyone else to back me up. But yeah, even as a ARC/BRD, I think kiting just to kite just isn't necessary.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Um...no...threat does not work that way.
A Tank doesn't just run up to a mob, slap it with a combo, and hold threat forever.
The amount of threat built is somewhat larger than a DPS, but not massively so that it becomes a non-issue.
If a BLM or a Brd choose to go nuts and not make any attempt to manage enmity, then they're probably going to die, and they do deserve to die.
The tank can only do so much regarding threat in this game.
It isn't WoW or RIFT or EQ2 where you can just pop threat builders/finishers and then go grab a beer.

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Actually no, Bards have this spell called "Quelling Strikes" that reduces our threat by 70-90% (estimate) for the first 15s of the fight, if we ever pull off the tank it's their fault, they are bad, and they should feel bad, I'm relic +1, I can queue with my friend who has an il55 weapon and have 0 threat problems on boss.

If you mean on trash mobs...not pulling threat on trash mobs would require not dpsing them, why would I do that when the time I spent not dpsing them would have been better spent killing the next mob because they only live for a few seconds either way?

In short, if we're talking about bosses and the tank loses threat then it is 100% on them past L34 (when Bards get Quelling), if we're talking trash mobs....well I haven't come across many people who care about minimizing threat on something with a lifespan of 10-20s.

Edit: one other note, there is an amazing spell called "Cover" many tanks may wish to look into it, very nice for when the tank is so bad at threat generation, and so undergeared that the healer pulls off them just trying to keep them alive.

Well, the OP was talking about FATES, where an Archer is often first to pull and kite before other people get there.
Because provoke only works on tagged mobs it will inevitably take so long for the tank surpass him in threat, that standing still WILL result in death without heals.

Yet the OP seems to think that continuing to kite as soon as a tank shows up automatically means that you are "doing it wrong".
I'm not 100% sure I agree with him.

If I saw a tank trying to pull aggro and also saw myself getting heals, THEN I would pop a defensive cooldown and stand still so the tank can attempt to pull it off me.
But in FATES, there is no guarantee that a healer is going to even try to heal you.
So in my opinion, just blindly expecting a kiting archer to stand still as soon as a tank shows up is ridiculous.

Throw a couple single target heals on him, even if he's full. THEN if he doesn't stop you can yell at him.