[suggetion] SE please stop with the hand holding

Providing the option to toggle enemy levels and aggro icons is only good for people who solo. Think of it this way, if you and I are exploring, I have the icons turned on and you have them off and you run right past a rank 80 mob that aggros you and kills you, I'm going wonder why I'm playing with such an idiot and don't have your Icon/Levels turned on.

In my opinion, Make the levels of Mobs ?? and let us keep an in game list of levels ranges of mobs and if they aggro (including other info like weaknesses), it can auto fill as you run into these mobs (maybe you can use scan or simply fight a mob and it fills in). After you learn this information the ?? would change to it's level (this excludes NMs) and the aggro Icon can show up. Let us earn the information instead of just giving it to us. There is not a lot of adventure in knowing all the answers up front. Imagine coming up to a super scary monster you've never seen before and knowing its level and if it aggros? No mystery in that. No mystery, No adventure, No fun (unless your a lazy bum who just wants everything handed too you, why not have someone play the game for you as you watch?

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Originally Posted by Allanon

As I have stated before Final Fantasy is not for everyone. The entire numbered franchise is meant to be hard and have high re-play ability. There are already games out there for the instant gratification crowd Final Fantasy should not be one of them. Final Fantasy has always been about the story and the effort it takes to reach a goal. In my opinion that is what is truly lacking from this game....story and content. You are right grinding currently consist of leve groups.

If SE really want to make money as you stated then they will be true to the franchise. IMO the instant gratification crowd will leave as soon as they have to start paying and if they don't give their fanbase something to stay they will leave too. FFXI has been going on for 7+ years now. The story is rich and for the most part the graphic are still much better than most other MMO's. I am tired of all the hand holding that the "weekend warriors" seem to need. I suggest if you don't have the time to play this game the way all the other FF were made then maybe Final Fantasy is not for you.

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Agreed, While I don't condemn having some easy content, it should be done in a way that isn't "instant gratification," because what is the point of playing if you already know you WILL win without having to actually put up a struggle? Did people play through ToAU because it could be finished in an hour? Did ppl fight Absolute Virtue or the Pandemonium Warden thinking they'd kill then in ten minutes w no deaths?

What gets me in this thread, and even across the forums sometimes, is how so many assume the rest of the player base would react the same way you would. It's "easier" so it will get boring fast. Or it's "instant gratification" so there is no feeling of accomplishment. "Keep this up and people will leave."

YOU might leave, that doesn't mean others would. Someone might enjoy killing that monster over and over. That same person might leave if they get killed 6 times in a row and can't beat it. You might thrive on that level of difficulty, they might pick up their toys and go home. You might want everything to be a mystery, they might want all information possible.

Calling people lazy for it... really? It's a game. The purpose of games is to entertain. If people aren't being entertained, that's when they will leave. What exactly entertains someone is subjective. It's up to SE to find a medium that will entertain as many players as possible while still keeping the game focused.

I think SE has been doing a really good job adressing all different playstyles. I imagine this trend will continue. It will be up to us to find groups that want to play the same way as we like to.

Sorry, to me requiring all information upfront about everything is both lazy and tasteless. If you want easy and instant gratification why not try a first person shooter? it's simple, you point and shoot. No mystery in that right?

Adventure Definition:
a bold, usually risky undertaking; hazardous action of uncertain outcome.

Other adventures:

Lord of the rings: Did Frodo know the level of ANYTHING when he accepted his adventure?
Star Wars: Did Luke know the level of Darth Vader?

NOOOOOOOOOO

My idea of adventure (and anyone else who has written a good adventure) is not knowing till you find out. Don't attack my opinion, I didn't say it was the only way nor did I assume anything about anyone else. If you like everything handed to you fine, but I don't and I'm simply making my opinion heard.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

What gets me in this thread, and even across the forums sometimes, is how so many assume the rest of the player base would react the same way you would. It's "easier" so it will get boring fast. Or it's "instant gratification" so there is no feeling of accomplishment. "Keep this up and people will leave."

YOU might leave, that doesn't mean others would. Someone might enjoy killing that monster over and over. That same person might leave if they get killed 6 times in a row and can't beat it. You might thrive on that level of difficulty, they might pick up their toys and go home. You might want everything to be a mystery, they might want all information possible.

Calling people lazy for it... really? It's a game. The purpose of games is to entertain. If people aren't being entertained, that's when they will leave. What exactly entertains someone is subjective. It's up to SE to find a medium that will entertain as many players as possible while still keeping the game focused.

I think SE has been doing a really good job adressing all different playstyles. I imagine this trend will continue. It will be up to us to find groups that want to play the same way as we like to.

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no se is doing a good job as addressing the casual play style while spitting in the faces of people that like in game challenge.

"an mmo starts at max level"... i know most do, but... why?

As an example: the failed mmo: age of conan, now more polished but empty.
Played 2 jobs to the cap (lvl 80) and i must say due to the fact that its easy and fast til 80 they throw away so many possibilites for an mmo. Many great dungeons, environments, mobs, etc. etc. you work through in like 2 weeks or so... a lot of the content until lvl 80 was more polished and nicely designed, very beautiful and also fun. And since it was not all "mindlessraid" - throw many people at trash mobs -
it was a nice experience ... well until lvl 80.

then you play RAIDS (i already hate the word raids by now tbh) and solo grind around. thats it. the same 2-3 dungeons all over. And most ppl even skip the 20 dungeons on the way to 80.
People only talk and meet in vent for raids.

So.... why not gettign rid of lvl entirely if its only timesink to cap? OR have fun and a longer time until the cap. Interesting battlesystem (challenge, not timesinks).
Its weird so many people are so mmo spoiled, thinking that endgame is the way to go when a smart mmo actually serves fun and long-lasting content on the way TO endgame...

If its only to hit lvl cap then why shoudl any company focus on midlvl stuff at all?
I really love to explore and get better over time, have many sidequests, mainquests, some farming, crafting, maxing out my job (not the lvl) looking at many things that i can do (i know ffxiv lacks a lot in it but theres no endgame yet either).

Every new mmo that focuses on endgame only just failed if it has levels at all imo.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Don't attack my opinion, I didn't say it was the only way nor did I assume anything about anyone else.

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My response wasn't simply to you, it was the thread in general. The title of the thread is "Stop with the hand holding".

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Originally Posted by Chezen

What gets me in this thread, and even across the forums sometimes, is how so many assume the rest of the player base would react the same way you would. It's "easier" so it will get boring fast. Or it's "instant gratification" so there is no feeling of accomplishment. "Keep this up and people will leave."

YOU might leave, that doesn't mean others would. Someone might enjoy killing that monster over and over. That same person might leave if they get killed 6 times in a row and can't beat it. You might thrive on that level of difficulty, they might pick up their toys and go home. You might want everything to be a mystery, they might want all information possible.

Calling people lazy for it... really? It's a game. The purpose of games is to entertain. If people aren't being entertained, that's when they will leave. What exactly entertains someone is subjective. It's up to SE to find a medium that will entertain as many players as possible while still keeping the game focused.

I think SE has been doing a really good job adressing all different playstyles. I imagine this trend will continue. It will be up to us to find groups that want to play the same way as we like to.

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That's because 95% of the games population has already left. We want Final Fantasy, not a World of Warcraft clone. This game is utterly easy. It requires no thinking or strategy at all. It is just mashing 1, X, or A.

Hell since Yoshi-P has taken over I haven't seen 1 single thing from him actually impress me. All he is doing is turning this into WoW and refining features that should have been in place from the start. Hell we asked for Quests, and look what we got. Garbage fetch and kill crap (with no storyline). Also guess what, they are utterly: EASY.

I have to agree, they are just putting out..... STUFF, nothing worth praising. It's boring, put something real out. The June release better be good or who can believe anything SE says anymore? Like I've said before, if you want to play an entire game solo, play a one player game. Stop whining about the game being too hard! I've included a link to a suggested game that takes little effort and has easy content - http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

Hope you like it!

I agree with so many things in this thread, especially the OP and the comment about "Games starting at the level cap". No MMO should start at the level cap, that's horrible design, all MMOs should start at level10ish. Level1-10 should be used as a tutorial to introduce people to the basics of the game/their class. After that, it should be grouping up for the fastest exp, with soloing as a viable alternative. Soloing should be a lot slower, but viable if you only have 30 mins to play(FOV is a good example of this)

I honestly expect the new dungeons coming out to take 30 mins to clear and have 0 replay value.