Design: Out-leveling zones = Ghost towns. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Before SE got maw happy players in XI always "crossed paths with low level players" due to the fact SE made the majority of zones relevant to everyone, i.e you can go to CN to fight crawler NMs for certain berries for quests or you go there to level in various level ranges, much like in Yuhtunga Jungle you can go there at level 24-26 and go in deeper at the 30s and 40s. All they really need to do is make the world setup like how XI's was in terms of progression and design and people will always be in every zone for some reason, compared to most other MMOs once you're done with those quests you never go back.

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Yeah, this paragraph sums up what I was thinking when I read the OP. It seems like the key is to give each zone some value other than what level its mobs are. Whether it's crafting items, or NM's, or a route to get somewhere like was suggested in the OP, if you give each zone something to do other than just killing a certain level mob it will do a good job of filling the zone.

The OP used Valkurm Dunes as an example in XI, and this is a really good example. How many times do you remember leveling your low level characters there looking at all the people camping the Emperor? Or how they put a portal to Lufaise Meadows in the zone. Or like how Elexia said, putting different quest objectives in low level zones. There were reasons for you to keep visiting the low level zones after you leveled past them.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

the other thing that FFXI/V has that other games do not is... even if you level your main class/job to 50 you can still level new class/jobs therefore going back to the starter areas and sort of starting over.

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Until you finish leveling all your jobs...which wasn't very hard to do at all in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Allesasi

I don't think this is a big deal. Why would you want people everywhere all the time. Think about competition, if there is competition everywhere you go then you will have people angry that every farmable area is taken. Another thing is you want people to congregate somewhere so you can go there and get or offer help with whatever. I understand your concern but this is how FF works and I honestly do not see it changing.

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Concept called MMORPG. Even the single player games had you revisiting old locations for various reasons, that is how the series (and most good RPGs) work.

Not trying to be mean but I know it can be a confusing concept with the way newer MMOs have been designed lol. You'll get competition, yes but that's why XI did it beautifully with things that mattered. You could always go to dunes at level 10 to party, or you can head on over to Buburimu Peninsula. You could always go to Jungles at 25 or you could head over to Batallia Downs like we did prior to Zilart expansion and so on. The fact SE wants to dump almost everything into an instance as possible the whole "competition" thing won't matter much.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

XI did it beautifully with things that mattered. You could always go to dunes at level 10 to party, or you can head on over to Buburimu Peninsula. You could always go to Jungles at 25 or you could head over to Batallia Downs like we did prior to Zilart expansion and so on. The fact SE wants to dump almost everything into an instance as possible the whole "competition" thing won't matter much.

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Totally agree, people can hate on XI all they want but they definitely have the right idea on some things. Crafting materials/drops, side quests, NMs, and achievements are just a few of the things they can use to get people to keep visiting all of the zones. The more depth the game has, the more interest people will have in everything.

Make a game even a moron can play, and only a moron will play it.

Despite my significant distaste for it, I believe Quest based leveling will go a long way to address this issue. Most MMOs end up losing all of the lower level areas populations because everyone out levels it and most people only play one character. Final Fantasy, however, allows players to level atleast 19 classes and my money says there will be 20 at official launch. This will keep people moving back to low level zones just to acquire additional skills.

If content is effectively spread out and prevalent enough, it stands to reason that players will be move across zones fairly frequently since each "Zone" will have multiple level ranges.

hmm... If you were lucky to participate with the Alpha test and really exploring around, you will see the zone are mixed with high and low level mobs together with tiny transition tunnel.
For example, near hmm (I forgot all the town already) A town it's lv5-10 zones. however, if you climb up a big tree, you will reach the lv30 zones. Near B town it's lv25-30 mobs. If you walk through a tunnel, you will see all lv45-50 mobs. Near C town is the same. around it is all lv5-10 mobs, but mob lv jumps to lv48 when you walk through a tiny gate.

The single zones are mixed with high and low level mobs at ARR alpha already. so if you following the quests, they bring you to A -> D -> C -> B towns then I guess after lv 20 you should go back to slightly-off A town again to do exp grind. This is just one major city state, of course you have more choices in the future. I think more than 2 zones have similar lv mobs. To do exp grind for lv20, you can go from C ->B or C-> F in the same greater Gridania area for example.

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Originally Posted by Jennika

Make a game even a moron can play, and only a moron will play it.

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Such a good quote. Let's hope ARR doesn't go this route..

As for the OP, I agree, good points good sir.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Concept called MMORPG. Even the single player games had you revisiting old locations for various reasons, that is how the series (and most good RPGs) work.

Not trying to be mean but I know it can be a confusing concept with the way newer MMOs have been designed lol. You'll get competition, yes but that's why XI did it beautifully with things that mattered. You could always go to dunes at level 10 to party, or you can head on over to Buburimu Peninsula. You could always go to Jungles at 25 or you could head over to Batallia Downs like we did prior to Zilart expansion and so on. The fact SE wants to dump almost everything into an instance as possible the whole "competition" thing won't matter much.

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Of course you could go anywhere but after a while when the majority of players has advanced a lot of zones will become relatively deserted., with just a few beginers, people farming or people just going back to level something from 1 again but stilldeserted again is just how it goes and there is nothing wrong with that. They will not dump everthing into an instance either.

Theres also no such thing as "always". I remember quite clearly all those zones being completely dead at times when most of the population had advanced or found better areas where to level, farm etc.

This issue is something I feel is important. The good thing is that ARR's zones are kind of small and intimate compared to the vast majority of other online games so it looks like it can feel like a single player game sometimes, and that might be a good thing, since even if we try, zones and content are going to become obsolete eventually. Hopefully the player will still feel like they're in a world that's alive and thriving. There's kind of nothing more depressing than going through an empty mmo starting area.

It also really makes us appreciate the often overlooked aspects of FFXI's design. Item balance, drop balance, and zones designed with world context rather than just gameplay function really helps out the liveliness. There has to be a balance, but i really hate it when some games these days polish and streamline things until the heart is taken out. Lets take that T-rex outside of rabanastre for example. I remember when FFXII first came out and people were complaining about why the devs would put it there, and what function did it serve. The answer was, Absolutely nothing, It didn't aggro, so it wasn't like you had to avoid it. But i think it added so much to the heart. You would challenge it, loose, watch it as it eats the wolves. Then you come back and remember there was a badass rex in this zone and you lay waste to it, showing you how far you've come.

Genius.

If you look at one of the alpha preview videos that is all the shroud area, and if you look he transitions from a low level are to a high level area with out going through a zone. One of the devs. even stated that where the video showed was too dangerous for the level 20 capped alpha tester to tread do to aggressive and high level mobs. So from that I say they will be like XI where zones have varying level ranges within them as to facilitate more traffic through the zones.