Design: Out-leveling zones = Ghost towns. Thoughts?

[ChiefCurrahee]

Like many of you I'm eagerly awaiting the ARR launch. During this waiting period I've brain stormed about the MMOs I've played over the past year and what design decisions SE could learn from them.

An article I've read about the faults of SWtor has stuck with me. From memory, it talked about how Bioware failed to create a world that players could connect with, that seemed alive, and immersive. It went on in detail how players once they outleveled an area they moved on never to return. Ultimately funneling all players from one spectrum to another and any new comers or 2nd playthroughs are met with abandoned zones.

GW2 is much the same, however if you happen to return to a "lower level" area it auto adjusts your stats and HP to present the player with a challenge. But most of the PvE game is trivial to begin with, returning with deflaited stats makes laughable content that much more laughable.

FFXI sticks true to this formula, except for one aspect. Some high level areas were attached to low level zones. This created a sort of traffic, where low level players would come across high level players while traveling. It created interaction between some players. Seeing a character run by in artifact might have inspired a player to keep going, to reach a goal with renewed interest.

So I pose the question, how are ARR zones to be designed. Are the zones linear, so you start at zone:

A lv 1-10 -> zone B 10-20 -> zone C 20-30 ect ect

or will we see areas like:
......................................................Zone T lv 50
....................................................../
...........Zone X lv 45-50........Zone M 20-35
................../........................../
ZoneA Lv 1-10 -> - Zone B lv 10-20 -> Zone C 20-30
.................\..........................\
..............Zone Y 20-30.........Zone K 30-40

Create traffic areas where vetern players will cross paths with new players on a regular basis to create a living triving world.

A good example is Valkrum dunes had a zone line to Gustav Tunnel which lead to cape teriggan

or Bastok zoned to Zerhun Mines which zoned to Korroloka tunnel to Altepa desert.

I know it would be such a disapointment if once we outleveled a certain zone there would be no reason what so ever to return. Even if it were just to backtrack to travel to a hgiher level area.

[Shioban]

After the punch in the face launch that left me with a big stinking black-eye until I rejoined in July 2012 I spent a week in Limsa Lominsa on my own only encountering the odd one or two players. I was super disheartened because the game has improved so much since the launch, it wasn't until I came across Ul'dah that I realised
"So thats where everyone goes!"

I had a similar experience in FFXI where it took me a few weeks to find where everyone was actually hiding.

It seems for ARR that low-level and high-level players will still come across each other in places like Ul'dah and hopefully the other main-cities too, if the Alpha test is anything to go by where apparently the main-city connects to the high-level zones like as you said

East: High Level ~ [Gridania] ~ West: Low Level

That's what I've been told at least, whether this actually makes it into the final product, I have no idea!

[Kafeen]

I was just thinking about this too. I was playing GW2 for a few hours earlier and it seemed deserted. I remember seeing people in Lion's Arch, the main hub city, but I don't remember seeing anyone out in the open world. It seems most of the players on that now are in dungeons leaving most of the world empty.

I hope ARR does something to address issues like these because it was seen in the original FFXIV too. As most people get into the higher levels there is little reason for them to go back to the lower level areas. This leaves you with most of the world being empty and can be discouraging for new players or those coming back after some time away and can leave high level areas, if not instanced, over crowded with most of the population fighting over limited resources.

I think one way ARR could handle this, as well as using low level areas for through trafic to higher level zones, would be to introduce higher level leves to all camps, not only new ones. This depends a lot on how the balance of activities is in the upper levels of ARR.

[Tobalito]

I agree with this so much. I hope SE is listening.

[Jynx]

Your idea is hamstringed by the teleportation concept, even if zones are interconected as you say they will never be used in this way because it will require a single traversal and then people will forget what traveling across a zone line even feels like.

[NintenPyjak64]

I was just thinking about this too. I was playing GW2 for a few hours earlier and it seemed deserted. I remember seeing people in Lion's Arch, the main hub city, but I don't remember seeing anyone out in the open world. It seems most of the players on that now are in dungeons leaving most of the world empty.

Ii remember during the holiday seasons there was an overabundance on players in the starting zones, and as of today, I noticed many people in Cursed Shore (level 80 area) and in places where dragons spawn. I guess it varries with the times and the dates

[KittenStomper]

the other thing that FFXI/V has that other games do not is... even if you level your main class/job to 50 you can still level new class/jobs therefore going back to the starter areas and sort of starting over.

[Lirion]

the other thing that FFXI/V has that other games do not is... even if you level your main class/job to 50 you can still level new class/jobs therefore going back to the starter areas and sort of starting over.

Pretty much this. In MMO games I usually just make one character and invest my time in it and in MMOs where I can only play as one class/character I never go back to the lower level areas unless I have to travel through them. But this is what's so great about the FF MMOs, I can play everything with one and the same character and that gives me a reason to go back to the lower level areas more than once.

[Virtuso]

Yup, don't forget how the the ability to play every class on a single character changes things up in a meaningful way for XIV vs all those other MMO's. Not only is it encouraged but it's seen as a requirement to level multiple classes even for a single job to use their abilities. Which means at least 3 visits grinding through low level area's to make a single Job endgame ready for individual players.

I remember Yoshi-P saying that endgame is designed to require players to level multiple classes to be "ready" for it. No doubt this is the reason why Jobs have access to the full range of abilities from 1-50 for two separate "sub-classes"

Add to that leveling up a second or third/more Jobs for endgame, which would require multiple additional leveling sessions. It'll be better than other MMO's population distribution. Of course after many months it'll thin out compared to launch for a variety of reasons, but I think the armory system alone helps alleviate the problem a fair amount.

[Hulan]

I must confesss, given the general miasma of negativity blanketing the forums, I came in here with no little trepidation. But you bring up quite a few excellent points. I do think that the existance of the Aethernet will make this point somewhat moot, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth considering. It does brush against a discussion we had way back about whether or not long walks to get to content still counted as part of that content (i.e. the trip to Sky without the Sea shortcut in FFXI).

While I disagree, I think the conclusion we came to was that most people prefer convenience over context. That means that between Content Finder and the Aethernet, simply arranging the zones in non-linear order is not going to be enough to encourage mingling of high and low level characters.

I think if we want to see that (and I, at least, very much do), we're going to have to explore very different avenues. I'm a big fan of the idea of a "Mentor" line of Achievements. Alternatively, interspersing random higher-level NMs in relatively lower level areas, while potentially frustrating for new players, would give them a nice feel of scope - "Man I feel so much more powerful, but watch out for that rabbit over there, he'll **** you up" (you know the one), while encouraging higher level players to occationally visit lower level zones. That does, unfortunately kind of contradict the current model that they appear to be taking with FFXIV: ARR which is for top end gear to be either crafted, or dropped in dungeons explicitly. But that's a topic for another thread.